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Chapter Tactics: White Scars

HQ

Korsarro Khan, Moon Drakkan -150pts

Troops

Bike squad, Sergeant with combi-grav, 4 Marines, Attack Bike with MM, two Grav Guns -200 pts

Bike squad, Sergeant with combi-grav, 4 Marines, Attack Bike with MM, two Grav Guns -200 pts

Bike squad, Sergeant with combi-grav, 3 Marines, Attack Bike with MM, two Grav Guns -179 pts

Fast Attack

Storm Talon Gunship with TL Assault Cannon, Skyhammer -125 pts

Allied Detachment, Codex : Space Wolves

HQ

Rune Priest with JOTWW, Murderous Hurricane, Bike, Runic Armour (155 pts)

Troops

Grey Hunters x10, 2 flamer, Drop Pod. -185 pts

_________________________________________

Rune Priest goes with a Bike Squad. Everything abuses Scout to get into position, annihilate Riptides first turn or set up a kill move for my first turn, or outflank if necessary. RP can't Scout but Grav Guns have 18'' range which means his squad has a 42'' threat range if no turbo boost is used.

JOTWW works in conjunction with 'concussive' on the Grav Guns. Can you see where this is going? At worst you have a 2/3 chance to auto remove a model like a Riptide (if bi-tide or Nidzilla, or anything like that) or alternatively divination gives you prescience Grav Guns for even more murderous AP2. He goes at the front of the unit and either LOS' heavy firepower or takes small arms firepower like a champ with a 2+ armour save. Also provides OP psychic defence for messing with Eldar.

Grey Hunters, Storm Talon and the duality of the bikers act as anti-scoring and anti-horde.

Something I'm considering is whether to drop a Bike Squad for a Command Bike Squad with 5 Grav Guns which is only 10 points more. I do lose out on AT and scoring that way though.

You will win this tournament.

What happens when 2 heldrakes fly on the board and BBQ your bikes?

valace2 wrote:
What happens when 2 heldrakes fly on the board and BBQ your bikes?

I'll outflank some, then let the Talon take on one or two of the Drakes, maybe velocity lock a drake with Grav if my luck is alright.

Actually you do bring up a good point though. I'd need more units in order to pull of a complete outflank. Maybe the only option would be to leave Khan and the RP on, maybe shuffle bikes so I can combat squad one and then I should be able to pull that off.

If you bring this up to 1500 Points, then I think it'd look even more rounded out. - Feasible

It's a very good list, but I'd make a few changes. I'd change the Bike set-up to 4 man double Melta with MM Attack Bike, 5 man double Grav plus Combi-Grav with MM Attack Bike, and finally another 5 man double Grav plus Comb-Grav. This will give you a bit more versatility against mech and to ID enemy characters and suits. I'd then use the points saved to upgrade the Talon to a Raven, as a single Talon won't be taking one double Drakes, which you are likely to see. The Raven on the other hand should be able to, and I imagine will also be trouble for many lists at such a low points value.

 Feasible wrote:
If you bring this up to 1500 Points, then I think it'd look even more rounded out. - Feasible

Yeah, I'm sure the TO won't mind him bringing 1500pts to a 1200pts tournament

There are a couple of hard counters that you'll need to be aware of...

Foot IG wouldn't really care all that much about Grav spam. When you come onto the table, you also have to weather a turn of nasty shooting.

CSM, Typhus & Plague Zombies. Again, Zombies really really don't care about Grav. You just don't have the capability to put wounds onto them, so they will control the board.

Heldrake builds...one Talon isn't going to do what you think it will. They will Vector Strike the thing down, then roast a squad of bikes per turn. Even if you velocity lock it, it can just fly a box around the board flaming to its heart's content.

For the codexse out it seams like a good list. Like everyone is bringing up Heldrakes are your huge weakness.

Defensive lines + Quadguns are the in thing. Ternament Chaos spam Heldrakes. Some with Zombies. Your list might need a quad dun to help with Anti-Air. Going off of GW History. I would say get some of the newest models maid for AA as they will be better then the ones released earlier. Also expect every list to have some air.

 Feasible wrote:
If you bring this up to 1500 Points, then I think it'd look even more rounded out. - Feasible

yes, but he said it was for a tourney. and most tourneys dont change point cost due to one individual.

I've considered some of the feedback I've received and I've updated the list to this:

HQ

Korsarro Khan

Troops

Bike Squad, 5 bikers, Attack bike with MM, 2 Grav Guns, Combi Grav -200 pts

Bike Squad, 4 bikers, Attack bike with MM, 2 melta guns -169 pts

Bike Squad, 5 bikers, 2 Grav Guns, Combi-Grav -145 pts

Heavy Support

Storm Raven Gunship w/ TL Assault Cannons, TL Multi Meltas, stormstrike missiles

Space Wolf Allies

HQ

Rune Priest, Bike, JOTWW + other power

Troops

Grey Hunters x10, 2 flamers, DP


Basically, removed Runic armour (a bit too expensive me thinks) one attack bike, switched a squad to meltas, and upgraded the Storm Talon to a Raven.

I've got 15 points left over which I have no idea what to do with.

you said that the rune priest won't have scout, but the rule book says of one model in a unit has scout then the whole squad gets it. so if you attach him to the bikes your fine.

This makes allying in a raven guard character into any unit for scout and stealth a bit silly

For 1200pts you have numbers, punch and durability...I may have to steal this idea for future low pt games

My dark reapers would poop on this list. So would my D-cannons. Bikes are over rated in my humble opinion, as they are usually too expensive to be taken in large units.- meaning they can be easily killed, now if you were running a large 4+ invul squad with FNP as dark angels can do then id say well...gak. But these are just reg space marines. Barrage will eat you up like cheerios.

 CorpseCommander wrote:
My dark reapers would poop on this list. So would my D-cannons. Bikes are over rated in my humble opinion, as they are usually too expensive to be taken in large units.- meaning they can be easily killed, now if you were running a large 4+ invul squad with FNP as dark angels can do then id say well...gak. But these are just reg space marines. Barrage will eat you up like cheerios.

Last I checked Dark Reapers don't ignore cover, save the Exarch, and are regarded widely as being uncompetitive for reasons I don't know why, but I am sure are justified. D-Cannons I'm pretty sure don't ignore cover and are very expensive, and I have 4+ jink saves.

The Bikes hit so hard and so fast on the first turn the only defence is ridiculous cover or invulnerable saves, or hiding them all together. If you get first turn I outflank or scout behind LOS' breakers and I still get the drop.

Barrage is rarely taken anyway, and this list ends turn 1 movement phase on their deployment line, at which point if they're that much of a threat they're the first to die.

Omega - 1 Other Armies - 0

I'd say bikes are a little too good and way too cheap point wise. He who has the most bikes, wins most( ESP when they are scoring)

 CorpseCommander wrote:
My dark reapers would poop on this list. So would my D-cannons. Bikes are over rated in my humble opinion, as they are usually too expensive to be taken in large units.- meaning they can be easily killed, now if you were running a large 4+ invul squad with FNP as dark angels can do then id say well...gak. But these are just reg space marines. Barrage will eat you up like cheerios.

How would Barrage eat them up? Barrage against Bikes is no different then any other type of shooting since they generate their own cover. Last I checked D-Cannons are just another AP2 gun, which cover saves don't give a crap about; no different to Plasma. You are spot on about Dark Reapers, but by that logic alone nothing in this game is worth taking as everything has a hard counter. To top it off Dark Reapers are not that common in Eldar tournament lists.

Also I'm sure you think coming into an army thread just to tell the OP about how your various units and armies will hammer him will make you look cool, but it doesn't mate, just unhelpful. Maybe this isn't your intention, but your post certainly comes off that way in my humble opinion.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 CorpseCommander wrote:
My dark reapers would poop on this list. So would my D-cannons. Bikes are over rated in my humble opinion, as they are usually too expensive to be taken in large units.- meaning they can be easily killed, now if you were running a large 4+ invul squad with FNP as dark angels can do then id say well...gak. But these are just reg space marines. Barrage will eat you up like cheerios.

Last I checked Dark Reapers don't ignore cover, save the Exarch, and are regarded widely as being uncompetitive for reasons I don't know why, but I am sure are justified. D-Cannons I'm pretty sure don't ignore cover and are very expensive, and I have 4+ jink saves.

The Bikes hit so hard and so fast on the first turn the only defence is ridiculous cover or invulnerable saves, or hiding them all together. If you get first turn I outflank or scout behind LOS' breakers and I still get the drop.

Barrage is rarely taken anyway, and this list ends turn 1 movement phase on their deployment line, at which point if they're that much of a threat they're the first to die.

D-Cannons are Barrage, and Reaper Launchers ignore Jink sv's. But these are units that are rarely taken. Even though it is cheaper I am still not a fan of the Stormtalon, and neither the Stormraven now the Stalker has arrived for only 75pts. Thought about some cheapo Scout Snipers for objective holding?

 phantommaster wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 CorpseCommander wrote:
My dark reapers would poop on this list. So would my D-cannons. Bikes are over rated in my humble opinion, as they are usually too expensive to be taken in large units.- meaning they can be easily killed, now if you were running a large 4+ invul squad with FNP as dark angels can do then id say well...gak. But these are just reg space marines. Barrage will eat you up like cheerios.

Last I checked Dark Reapers don't ignore cover, save the Exarch, and are regarded widely as being uncompetitive for reasons I don't know why, but I am sure are justified. D-Cannons I'm pretty sure don't ignore cover and are very expensive, and I have 4+ jink saves.

The Bikes hit so hard and so fast on the first turn the only defence is ridiculous cover or invulnerable saves, or hiding them all together. If you get first turn I outflank or scout behind LOS' breakers and I still get the drop.

Barrage is rarely taken anyway, and this list ends turn 1 movement phase on their deployment line, at which point if they're that much of a threat they're the first to die.

D-Cannons are Barrage, and Reaper Launchers ignore Jink sv's. But these are units that are rarely taken. Even though it is cheaper I am still not a fan of the Stormtalon, and neither the Stormraven now the Stalker has arrived for only 75pts. Thought about some cheapo Scout Snipers for objective holding?

I could get rid of the Grav Gun squadrons attack bike and get some Scouts for home objectives. I'm not fussed with the Stalker, its averages are something like 1/10 for shooting down an Av12 flyer, and the hunter is flat out worse all across the board. Storm Raven serves as emergency AT/anti-MC and AA.

1,200 is quite a weird one to build for me.
I find its hard to include enough of everything to make it well rounded.

For example - You have a single flyer.
Most people will come tooled up to remove them quickly, so that will be gone by turn 3 at the very latest.

This then removes your ability to reliably hunt other flyers.

This is something you cant really avoid though as hard counters are always going to be there.
Good, strong anti-tank and armour.

You lack anti-horde, but your movement speed means you can keep moving about and shooting to drag down numbers.



If you wanted the pups simply for the JoTWW spam, then fair enough.
If not, why not bring in BA or another marine based army?

Cheap HQ, 5 assault marines in a razorback with assault cannons and a baal pred would boost that anti-infantry alot more.




For the points though, it really is a tough choice to cover every base, but this list is pretty damn close to doing that, or atleast making up for what it does lack.

I would just love to play you and disgrace the "power" of bikes.
A reaper-range finder ignores jink saves and all reapers come standard with it. not only that but I can add a tau buff commander to my unit and they will also ignore your area terrain. Unless your running invuls or some serious fnp your squads with die in droves. D cannons with ignore your jink, unless you are in area, dont quote me on that though. However no fnp there as i can hit 2-3 models a piece, snipe your heavy weapons out and instant kill an hq that unlucky enough to fail a look out sir. Unless you can come from out of line of sight and assult in 1 turn then you have 0 Chance, ill be 100% truthful. Ive played quite a few dark angel bike lists that run inv saves and fnp and i still make them look silly. I also play tau as allies so a riptide blast will really wreck your world.

@OP
One thing you should note is that the rune priest has a different cover save than the bike units. This means he can be focus fired out of the squad.

I also think the stormtalon is not quite enough against a helldrake. I usually find an artificer armour bike IC or a stormraven are my best recourse. (the storm raven will kill a hellturkey ~45% of the time).

@CorpseCommander
D-Cannons do not ignore jink. White scars get a 4+ jink for moving BTW. They would however ignore FnP due to being S10.

Congrats your proposed unit is almost 500 pts without the starshot missiles or ADL to keep them alive. BTW did you notice he has scouting gravguns all over the list...did you know that each of his bike units will average ~5 unsaved wounds on your proposed unit. Considering he is bringing almost 3 of those units for the points of this unit and they will have range turn 1 I would not brag that much. You think this is ravenwing vanilla when it is a totally different type of bike army due to grav, ignore terrain, and +1 jink.

^ and scout!

Poly Ranger wrote:
^ and scout!

Ravenwing has scout.

Oh I thought the khan gave scout? Not at home so don't have my dex on me atm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thinking about it, scout on bikes would be rather broken... what is it he gives again? Only glanced at him once when thinking of an Iron hands list with him allied in...

White Scars have scout. Ravenguard has stealth Turn1. White Scars are brutal with the new dex. I think you'll do fine with the list. Just spread the bikes out side ways when the heldrake comes in and you'll be fine.

As for the rune priest on bike, like mentioned before, he can be focus-fired and die relatively fast. Take out a hunter and add him to the pod Turn1. With scout on all bikes and the pod, you'll have 100% of your army in their face. It's up to your opponent to kill the correct targets.

Good list imo.

Khan gives army wide scout. White scars do not naturally have it. (and ravenwing also gets scout).

 CorpseCommander wrote:
I would just love to play you and disgrace the "power" of bikes.
A reaper-range finder ignores jink saves and all reapers come standard with it. not only that but I can add a tau buff commander to my unit and they will also ignore your area terrain. Unless your running invuls or some serious fnp your squads with die in droves. D cannons with ignore your jink, unless you are in area, dont quote me on that though. However no fnp there as i can hit 2-3 models a piece, snipe your heavy weapons out and instant kill an hq that unlucky enough to fail a look out sir. Unless you can come from out of line of sight and assult in 1 turn then you have 0 Chance, ill be 100% truthful. Ive played quite a few dark angel bike lists that run inv saves and fnp and i still make them look silly. I also play tau as allies so a riptide blast will really wreck your world.

Awesome... anyone can hard counter a list if you know it in advance... well almost anyone as you've actually failed to make a good hard counter , congrats.

All this crazy biker power bodes well for my Biker Orks when they finally get updated...

lso I'm sure you think coming into an army thread just to tell the OP about how your various units and armies will hammer him will make you look cool, but it doesn't mate, just unhelpful. Maybe this isn't your intention, but your post certainly comes off that way in my humble opinion.

Seconding this. A "Taudar" player bragging about how his hard bike counters will kill bikes (really? who knew?), and how his OP fotm combo army is gonna wrek everything isn't something particularly pleasant to read.

would just love to play you and disgrace the "power" of bikes.
A reaper-range finder ignores jink saves and all reapers come standard with it. not only that but I can add a tau buff commander to my unit and they will also ignore your area terrain. Unless your running invuls or some serious fnp your squads with die in droves. D cannons with ignore your jink, unless you are in area, dont quote me on that though. However no fnp there as i can hit 2-3 models a piece, snipe your heavy weapons out and instant kill an hq that unlucky enough to fail a look out sir. Unless you can come from out of line of sight and assult in 1 turn then you have 0 Chance, ill be 100% truthful. Ive played quite a few dark angel bike lists that run inv saves and fnp and i still make them look silly. I also play tau as allies so a riptide blast will really wreck your world.

No one cares about your army. This thread is about him, not you.