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Wow, those EST arms go a long way towards making them look better. I think Judgedoug has the best idea though. Just replace them altogether with the Confrontation Lions. Although, I still think the MAA would look passable mounted onto some columns and painted marble.

I disagree with the original post. The men at at arms are far better than some of the basic infantry from KoW. Both the high elves and the dwarves look rather cartoonish especialy the sculpts of the high elves. The proportions of the dwarves aren't too bad but still look cartoonish for most of the line. Their heros however put their line to shame.

As someone with 500 dwarven infantry and 160 MaAs...I felt confident in posting they were the worst of the KS figures. They ARE fixable though, with a bit of spit and grit. Also, the dwarven and elven infantry were done prior to the KS.

I still want to see some of your painted MaA.

I'd still like to finish the few that I started painting. I'll see if I can get one or two done tonight. Work is keeping me out on the road for the next week. Bringing enforcers with me to work on during my off time (when I'm not hanging ou with Porkuslime, that is).

I... am tempted to put the Basilean weapons and shields on figures from the Perry twins....

The weapons look fine - the shields... it's not that hard to remove the arm.

I will keep the dozen or so that I am painting up as City Watch, and let the rest of the Sweater Men stay on their sprues.

It looks, to my unpracticed eye, like the MaA figures did not have the needed resolution when the 3D masters were produced - a different manufacturer, this time around?

For the record - I like both the elves and the dwarfs in the KoW line - and nearly every other miniature in the Kickstarter looks good. (Except for the ogres and the gargoyles - those look great!)

The Auld Grump

I'm not sure where else this could go, honestly, but since this thread is about "awful" minis Mantic has made...I just got a bunch of Mantic goblins, hearing the worst, but damn, they're awesome! I'm trying to figure out the complaints. They're far superior to GW goblins even. I mean, granted, I didn't go through EVERY model, but I went through a couple, and they all looked good. No complaints.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
It looks, to my unpracticed eye, like the MaA figures did not have the needed resolution when the 3D masters were produced - a different manufacturer, this time around?

Well, someone at Mantic let me know the whole story with them at the Open Day* (I didn't even ask, it was mostly just volunteered!). Multiple problems rather than just one specific one let to the minis being as they are. I knew some of the issues already, but it was explained again and expanded upon by the staffer, adding some new stuff I wasn't aware of:

- Remy sculpted one Men-at-arms. One. This was then digitally scanned and reposed and had new faces etc. done by a different 3d sculptor. This process didn't turn out perfectly, but it isn't the whole story either (note the puzzling difference between the excellent crossbow arms and the plastic arms, and the fact that the renders looked decent enough).

- The 3d files were sent to China.. and not used. Format was incompatible with the Chinese software which uses its own format, and the manufacturer didn't want to pay for the conversion software.

- What actually happened was that the manufacturer got some random guy to quickly (and quite evidently, half-arsedley) trace over the files mantic sent and recreate a new version of the 3d sculpts in the Chinese software that was compatible with the machines. So, the sprues we have on the shelves right now were basically 100% sculpted by some random chinese factory worker who had a bit of 3d software knowledge.

- There were some other minor things mentioned, stuff about them not milling finely enough and the shields and weapons being milled properly, but the rest of the sprue wasn't.

- First Mantic hears of any of this is when they get a test sprue in the mail, wonder what on earth went wrong and fly out half the company to China to make sure the deadzone sprues didn't suffer the same fate. It looks like they now have some of their own staff over there pretty much permanently to handle some of the more complicated stuff.

- I asked if they could re-tool the sprue. Can't do that without paying them again unfortunately, the contract at the time wasn't written well enough. With deadzone and all future sprues from the manufacturer, Mantic is working on a strict "no quality, no payment, re-tool the sprue" contract. This is something that Ronnie has mentioned quite a bit anyway, the fact that they're redoing sprues now if they're not done right the first time (core worlds tool was scrapped once, connector sprue tool was scrapped twice).

*waited a little while before posting because I didn't feel like dragging up this old chestnut again at the time and posting this in the mantic forums to mainly inform the people who actually own the models, or are getting some hard plastics in future.

So, yeah, pretty confident about their future sprues now that I know everything about what went wrong there. I'm a little less confident about them sticking their current manufacturer, but I guess without the cheap cost the models simply won't get made or sold at the price point they sell at. Someone asked about Chinese manufacturing during a seminar, and Ronnie explained it was simply a case of getting stuff done within their budget and expected sales figures.

My MAA are sitting in a cupboard awaiting the release of the Perry foot men-at-arms, in the hopes of being able to kitbash some minis I'm happy to use (probably just gonna use the spears, shields and feathers). They're okay-ish, but that unfortunately means my motivation to work on them is pretty much zero.

100% of the infantry in my basilean army will be paladins at first. Then it'll be the nuns with conversions, then.. I'll get around to the MAA. But before all that I'll be putting an all-cav and angel army together since it's a lot of points and not many models.

Am I correct in remembering that their older molds were made by Rendera in the UK?

The Mantic Undead are heads and shoulders (and intestines, and spinal bits) above the MaA models.

I thought that something was different when I saw that the frames of the MaA models were round, not rectangular.

The skeletons and revenants are very, very good sprues.

The Auld Grump

Even their stuff like the elves are better sculpted than the MAA even if you dont like them the quality of the sculpting is good.

Everything up to and including the Warpath Forgefathers and Marauders was tooled by Renedra.

So, the bulk of the models in the line, everything other than the KoW Goblins, MAA and Deadzone sprues.

The extremely high quality of the Renedra sprues makes the Chinese ones look even worse in comparison.

Renedra sprues are often better quality than GW ones, taking an objective view and looking at the level of fine detail and sharpness on them.

Matter of opinion, but I think The Elohi are much worse than the men at arms.

 sing your life wrote:
Matter of opinion, but I think The Elohi are much worse than the men at arms.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong or arguing with you since taste is subjective and you're right to feel the way you do, but... I really want to know what makes you feel that way. Please tell me more.


@Scarlet Squig, thank you for all the background information. Truly, you are Mantic's most valuable employee. (James better watch his back.)

When I get a chance to do more modelling, I'm going to try the Eisenkern accessory arms and heads on the MaA, and maybe some PDC guns.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Matter of opinion, but I think The Elohi are much worse than the men at arms.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong or arguing with you since taste is subjective and you're right to feel the way you do, but... I really want to know what makes you feel that way. Please tell me more.


@Scarlet Squig, thank you for all the background information. Truly, you are Mantic's most valuable employee. (James better watch his back.)

When I get a chance to do more modelling, I'm going to try the Eisenkern accessory arms and heads on the MaA, and maybe some PDC guns.

Most of the stuff he posts doesn't make sense. I gave up trying a while ago.

I'm interested in his opinion. Art is subjective, so I feel like I learn a lot more from someone who experiences it very differently from me.


Also, I might just be a grand admiral named Thrawn.

To answer your question:

1. Look far more like action man figures of elves than actual paladins [IMHO]
2. Flaming swords are too silly
3. Heads are worst I've seen so far on a miniature, Weird proportions and are all the same.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:



Also, I might just be a grand admiral named Thrawn.

 sing your life wrote:
To answer your question:

1. Look far more like action man figures of elves than actual paladins [IMHO]
2. Flaming swords are too silly
3. Heads are worst I've seen so far on a miniature, Weird proportions and are all the same.

1. I'm not quite sure I understand. Do you mean that they are too thin? As angelic beings, should they have the same proportions as a human, in your opinion? I find that a fairly fantastic creature like an angel can have a wide latitude in appearance before it bothers me, so I'm curious what 'button' the elohi push for you.

2. According to Midrashes and other Biblical fan fiction, archangels like Uriel and Sandalphon carry swords of ever-turning fire. Seems like Mantic more from the old stories than just the Hebrew word "elohim" for the elohi. So, yes, it can seem silly, but many people might consider it a valid and important characteristic in an angelic being, the same way some people prefer human feet on a minotaur. I am curious where you draw the line, though. In Mantic's Mantica universe, there are many magic weapons that are similar, as well as undead dog walkers, dogs with throwing handles on their backs, and so on. Is Mantica just a silly place?

3. Yeah... I'm using GW heads on mine, fortunately.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:



Also, I might just be a grand admiral named Thrawn.

He likes to study art. For military applications.

I got some of the elves, I think they're neat. I got some of the MaA too. I'd have to assemble and paint some of them before I could say if their faults would bother me or not.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Matter of opinion, but I think The Elohi are much worse than the men at arms.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong or arguing with you since taste is subjective and you're right to feel the way you do, but... I really want to know what makes you feel that way. Please tell me more.


@Scarlet Squig, thank you for all the background information. Truly, you are Mantic's most valuable employee. (James better watch his back.)

When I get a chance to do more modelling, I'm going to try the Eisenkern accessory arms and heads on the MaA, and maybe some PDC guns.

Most of the stuff he posts doesn't make sense. I gave up trying a while ago.

No, you gave up trying because you couldn't argue against my points, because they're all entirely correct.

I've settled on my fix for the men-at-arms.

Perry foot knights:



Not released, not scheduled for release currently. Probably won't see them until 2015.

However long it takes I will wait and buy 200 of them the second they go on sale. The style is close enough to the basileans with those helmets and the rules have basileans as wearing heavy armour, so that's no problem.

I view my current pile of men-at-arms as useful for the following purposes:

- I need the bases.
- Weapons and shields to make the perry stuff more fantasy.
- Potential use of the torsos with spare perry heads and arms. Maybe, maybe not. Or sell them off for peanuts. Or, I might call up Mantic and do a bitz order of crossbow arms to give them a use. Unsure.

Ask for a refund? They can't have been cheap...

About £60 in total spent on them alone during the kickstarter.

Considering the large quantity of other freebies I got during the KS (and successfully traded for even more Basileans) I'd rather pass on the refund idea and simply see that £60 spent as:

- £16 spent on 160 bases (they cost this much and I'd need to buy them for any perry minis anyway).

- £44 spent on 160 shields and spears for use on the perry minis to make them nice and fantasy looking. Works out at about 13p per "bit" which isn't too bad.

The other 40 MAA I have came from buying a couple of Basilean army boxes where they were essentially free on top of the other stuff in the box. With those ones I'll probably just email mantic and bitz order 40 crossbow arms (along with a bunch of the rather nice command bits).

The Basileans in general I'm really happy with... Paladins, Knights, Angels and characters are all top-notch minis. I like the cat cavalry and the chariot. Foot sisters need some work but should look okay. It's only that one unit that is a write-off.

Plus if I keep the MAA I get to legitimately complain about them in the KoW 2.0 KS comments section. I am going to be jammering away like nuts in that one, asking if they'll have command groups, asking if the command groups will be metal, asking if the sprues will have lego hands etc. etc. etc. and mentioning the men-at-arms every single time.

There's a number of things that definitely don't get done right that need to be done right and I'll be trying to encourage more debate on those points. Their current thinking is that "lego hands = good idea" and they want all the new 5-man sprues to have them so you can swap the weapons around.

Hmmm... I do not know if you are one of those folks like me that sometimes brings more than one army along - so that a new sacrificial victim player can be brought into the fold, but if do... maybe give the MaA a quick paintjob, and use them as a loaner army - so that when (not if, I'm afraid) something happens to the borrowed minis then you will not be all that heartbroken.

And by quick, I mean block colors, dip, base, done.

The Auld Grump - that was how I did them for city guard....

Lego hands? Bloody hell - just mould the weapons with hands attached like the most recent Space Marines or even one-piece weapon arms with some variety as most others do. Can we get James on here to discuss (after his New Year's hangover is gone) it before they scuttle their next sets of future plastic kit sales? Surely Ronnie has some experience with a certain company that manages to do plastic kits right?

Ronnie doesn't like lego hands either, he said so in one of the open day seminars when the topic was brought up.

He encouraged us to let Stew know if we don't like them, so it's definitely something to let them know about if it's not wanted.

I got the impression Ronnie mostly stays out of making final decisions on production matters these days.

I plan on mentioning it during the KoW 2.0 Kickstarter and encouraging some discussion then.

 scarletsquig wrote:


Plus if I keep the MAA I get to legitimately complain about them in the KoW 2.0 KS comments section. I am going to be jammering away like nuts in that one, asking if they'll have command groups, asking if the command groups will be metal, asking if the sprues will have lego hands etc. etc. etc. and mentioning the men-at-arms every single time.

There's a number of things that definitely don't get done right that need to be done right and I'll be trying to encourage more debate on those points. Their current thinking is that "lego hands = good idea" and they want all the new 5-man sprues to have them so you can swap the weapons around.

Good luck with that - I spent a good deal of time/effort during the first KS to make sure the new kits wouldn't have a lot of the same problems as the existing stuff. (Proper banners, head variety, etc) only for Mantic to throw me for a loop with a bunch of stuff I'd never dreamed they do. So you'd better specify things like "make sure the miniatures all have feet" and "no live deadly scorpions in the box."

Ronnie doesn't like lego hands either, he said so in one of the open day seminars when the topic was brought up.

He encouraged us to let Stew know if we don't like them, so it's definitely something to let them know about if it's not wanted.

I got the impression Ronnie mostly stays out of making final decisions on production matters these days.

I can't wait till I run my own miniatures company so I can have opinions on how things should be done and then not follow through on them ...

Those perry men at arms look fantastic. Are they going to be plastic?

Scarletsquig, have you considered just going for some of the metal Perry Agincourt/WOTR stuff for the men at arms? Even in metal they are very reasonably priced, just over £1 a mini

They're not quite as good a fit stylistically.

Not going to go for the basic perry infantry either for similar reasons.

As far as infantry goes in the army list, paladins look like the best choice to me anyway, for anything other than a horde.

Mounted nuns are okay, but foot nuns at De 3+ are just going to get shredded really easily. MAA are 20 points less than paladins, but I feel you gain quite a lot of good stuff for those 20 points.

Hey all, been a while since I posted here.

So back on page #1 I said I'd try my hand at sculpting some compatible bits for the M@A to help improve the models somewhat, and then I kinda of forgot about it, for several months......
But I'm back and last night I drew up so quick concept art and did a test sculpt, the sculpt itself is a little unrefined detail wise because I'm testing new clay types out, but the overall concept should be clear.

Here we go:

Came out pretty well, would love feedback and suggestions of course, sorry for the bad photos this was on the quick.

Oh and concept art: (just squint to see details)


Enjoy.