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 dogma wrote:
It is a year, but perhaps the kid shouldn't put himself at risk.

I agree he shouldn't have put himself at risk, but it also isn't the school's job to intervene unless it happened while they were legally responsible for him. If he was on his family's property then the school has no jurisdiction, if he was 70 yards away (by the bus stop) then I'd give the school district a little bit more leniency.

 Frazzled wrote:
Kid shouldn't put himself at risk PLAYING WITH A TOY ON HIS PROPERTY? That statement doesn't pass the lucidity test.

According to his words and those of his parents, who were not there.

There's nothing saying otherwise. If you want to invent something, well thats on you to do.

There's no way, with the information noted in the article, that the school comes out looking anything better than horrific bureaucrats who don't have the intellect God gave to jock itch.

There is nothing that says otherwise true. But why should we trust the words of the wrong in the wrong? They could be making gak up. And here IS why i think the article is wrong. It doesnt state how the school found out

As an update from the article in the OP:

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (WAVY) - Two seventh grade Virginia Beach students have learned their fates Tuesday morning after they were suspended for shooting airsoft gun.

During a hearing Tuesday morning, Aidan Clark and Khalid Caraballo were given long-term suspensions in a unanimous vote. The suspensions will last until June, but a hearing will be held in January to determine if they will be allowed back in school.

Their parents told WAVY News' Andy Fox their children were expelled, but when Fox looked at the official letter from the school, he found they were long-term suspensions and not expulsions. Their parents still feel as though they were expelled.

Letter from school officials

Clark was offered the option of attending an alternative school, but his father, Tim, told WAVY News' Andy Fox he will be homeschooled.

Caraballo will attend an alternative school.

Yes we do.

This story that addresses Zero Tolerance extending to private property began on September 9 with a 911 call from a concerned citizen.

A neighbor saw Khalid shooting the airsoft gun in his front yard. She told the dispatcher, "He is pointing the gun, and it looks like there's a target in a tree in his front yard".

It literally has nothing to do with the school.


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 Alfndrate wrote:
As an update from the article in the OP:

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (WAVY) - Two seventh grade Virginia Beach students have learned their fates Tuesday morning after they were suspended for shooting airsoft gun.

During a hearing Tuesday morning, Aidan Clark and Khalid Caraballo were given long-term suspensions in a unanimous vote. The suspensions will last until June, but a hearing will be held in January to determine if they will be allowed back in school.

Their parents told WAVY News' Andy Fox their children were expelled, but when Fox looked at the official letter from the school, he found they were long-term suspensions and not expulsions. Their parents still feel as though they were expelled.

Letter from school officials

Clark was offered the option of attending an alternative school, but his father, Tim, told WAVY News' Andy Fox he will be homeschooled.

Caraballo will attend an alternative school.

Yep thats an entire year. I would be suing the out of the school as we speak.

He said he saw them on the front property. He never said they where only on the property

He also said they were shooting a toy gun at a target in hsi front yard. Dude its right there.

And shooting another kid in the arm. Who seemed to not be a part of it at the bus stop. Or did you happen to go over that?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
He said he saw them on the front property. He never said they where only on the property

70 yards is a large distance (the distance from the kid's front yard/property to the bus stop).

To put it in perspective... That distance is large enough that the Cleveland Browns can't cross it in a few passes . I kid, but seriously 70 yards is 210 feet... There is no mistaking where this kid is or is not.


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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And shooting another kid in the arm. Who seemed to not be a part of it at the bus stop. Or did you happen to go over that?

According to the news report the kid shot in the arm was playing in this 'airsoft gun war'

 Grey Templar wrote:
Suspension is also the dumbest punishment currently.

It may have actually been a punishment back when going to school was something kids would actually want to do, back when it was valued.

Now days, the kid is probably going to be thrilled he doesn't have to go.

It used to be that suspensions where where parent would dish out horrible punishments. But at my school we learned that those who are suspended did not have parents who cared in the first place. 6th grade I got suspended alot. Never in trouble though because I was defending myself from bullies. My school had a policy where all parties, even the victims, got suspended.



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 Alfndrate wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
He said he saw them on the front property. He never said they where only on the property

70 yards is a large distance (the distance from the kid's front yard/property to the bus stop).

To put it in perspective... That distance is large enough that the Cleveland Browns can't cross it in a few passes . I kid, but seriously 70 yards is 210 feet... There is no mistaking where this kid is or is not.

And what Im saying is this. We only have their words that they never left the property with the airsoft guns. Hell it doesnt even say how theu got caught? Did they go to school? Did the police pick them up? The person who saw it says she only saw them playing in the yard. She never said anything like they put them down. TBH I have a feeling the kids a lying

I remember being suspended in the 6 th grade. Evidently plotting coup de tats was frowned upon in that establishment.
Jeez parachute in a French Foreign Legion brigade and everyone just freaks out...

Suspension/expelling is unnecessary, I feel. A good box on the ear should suffice.

That may have been allowing french people into texas frazzled. Arent they all banned from texas?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And what Im saying is this. We only have their words that they never left the property with the airsoft guns. Hell it doesnt even say how theu got caught? Did they go to school? Did the police pick them up? The person who saw it says she only saw them playing in the yard. She never said anything like they put them down. TBH I have a feeling the kids a lying

So there is a little bit more to the story. The WAVY story in the OP is gak at writing it seems.

So here is the story of events as stated by the NY Daily News:
Earlier in the month, a mom calls 911 to report that kids (Aidan and Khalid) are shooting the gun (not at anyone), and that "This is not a real one, but it makes people uncomfortable. I know that it makes me (uncomfortable), as a mom, to see a boy pointing a gun."

A few days later, that caller's son was seen playing with Aidan and Khalid.

Another 911 call was reported by a neighbor saying that kids were running down the street with weapons. So we don't really have solid evidence on the whole matter. Thankfully the NY Daily News posted the letter that the principal filed for the hearing.
https://linmedia-cms.endplay.com/documents/234677/0/Principal%27s+response/f65e30ee-1e06-49a3-b212-30e18a55b6cb
I'm not quoting it because the formatting is fethed up, but the principal says he became aware of the situation after a passing motorist had seen a child chasing another child with a weapon near the bus stop (doesn't give a distance) on Sept 12th.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Suspension is also the dumbest punishment currently.

It may have actually been a punishment back when going to school was something kids would actually want to do, back when it was valued.

Now days, the kid is probably going to be thrilled he doesn't have to go.

It used to be that suspensions where where parent would dish out horrible punishments. But at my school we learned that those who are suspended did not have parents who cared in the first place. 6th grade I got suspended alot. Never in trouble though because I was defending myself from bullies. My school had a policy where all parties, even the victims, got suspended.



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 Alfndrate wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
He said he saw them on the front property. He never said they where only on the property

70 yards is a large distance (the distance from the kid's front yard/property to the bus stop).

To put it in perspective... That distance is large enough that the Cleveland Browns can't cross it in a few passes . I kid, but seriously 70 yards is 210 feet... There is no mistaking where this kid is or is not.

And what Im saying is this. We only have their words that they never left the property with the airsoft guns. Hell it doesnt even say how theu got caught? Did they go to school? Did the police pick them up? The person who saw it says she only saw them playing in the yard. She never said anything like they put them down. TBH I have a feeling the kids a lying

Having played with air soft before, I can tell you that it would be almost impossible to hit what you shot at at the distance given. Anybody who got hit would have been an accident.

And really, even if the kid wasn't on the property he wouldn't have been near the bus stop. If the police thought it wasnt a problem then the school has no business there.

Sure, the kid could be lying. But we have no reason to suspect that.

Sadly, according to the Principal, if a child is on their way to or from the bus stop, they are under the jurisdiction of the school... So it doesn't matter how far you are from the bus stop, according to Mr. Delaney, if you're heading to that bus stop you're the responsibility of the school.

So does that mean the school should provide supervision the instant they leave the front door?

 Alfndrate wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And what Im saying is this. We only have their words that they never left the property with the airsoft guns. Hell it doesnt even say how theu got caught? Did they go to school? Did the police pick them up? The person who saw it says she only saw them playing in the yard. She never said anything like they put them down. TBH I have a feeling the kids a lying

So there is a little bit more to the story. The WAVY story in the OP is gak at writing it seems.

So here is the story of events as stated by the NY Daily News:
Earlier in the month, a mom calls 911 to report that kids (Aidan and Khalid) are shooting the gun (not at anyone), and that "This is not a real one, but it makes people uncomfortable. I know that it makes me (uncomfortable), as a mom, to see a boy pointing a gun."

A few days later, that caller's son was seen playing with Aidan and Khalid.

Another 911 call was reported by a neighbor saying that kids were running down the street with weapons. So we don't really have solid evidence on the whole matter. Thankfully the NY Daily News posted the letter that the principal filed for the hearing.
https://linmedia-cms.endplay.com/documents/234677/0/Principal%27s+response/f65e30ee-1e06-49a3-b212-30e18a55b6cb
I'm not quoting it because the formatting is fethed up, but the principal says he became aware of the situation after a passing motorist had seen a child chasing another child with a weapon near the bus stop (doesn't give a distance) on Sept 12th.

So at one point they where not on private property shooting with the guns? Hmm.
Also I do not like they way those kids are photographed with those guns and glasses. Looks too thuggish for me

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So at one point they where not on private property shooting with the guns? Hmm.
Also I do not like they way those kids are photographed with those guns and glasses. Looks too thuggish for me

There is no corroboration that the kids were leaving their yards running down the street with weapons, or that they were firing these weapons. There is corroboration that the kids were in a yard shooting the airsoft guns.

Also these kids are practicing safe shooting practices by wearing eye protection.

On city property, not school property.

The city, by way of the police, determined there was no problem.

 Grey Templar wrote:
So does that mean the school should provide supervision the instant they leave the front door?

And evidently an escort to help prevent being hit with a BB. Maybe we should just make all schools boarding schools, that way the child is under the school's control at all times

Sounds to me as though the school have just massively exposed themselves to a lot of liability in the event that students get hurt on their way to a bus stop.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So at one point they where not on private property shooting with the guns? Hmm.
Also I do not like they way those kids are photographed with those guns and glasses. Looks too thuggish for me

There is no corroboration that the kids were leaving their yards running down the street with weapons, or that they were firing these weapons. There is corroboration that the kids were in a yard shooting the airsoft guns.

Also these kids are practicing safe shooting practices by wearing eye protection.

I get that, but the way the photographer mae the photographs look thuggish is wrong to me.
Yes, but being in the yard does not exclude the fact they, at one point, could have left it.

"On their way to the bus stop"

Does that mean they are under the school watch from when they wake up till they get home?

After all, when they wake up the are on their way. Just going to get dressed and maybe eat while "on their way"

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

I get that, but the way the photographer made the photographs look thuggish is wrong to me.
Yes, but being in the yard does not exclude the fact they, at one point, could have left it.

I don't disagree with you, I'm sure that it wasn't his intent because the article doesn't talk about these kids in that sort of light.

And being in the yard means that they were in the yard. "Could have left it" means that they "Could have not left it" We have more evidence saying the kids were in the yard playing, and less evidence saying the kids left it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So at one point they where not on private property shooting with the guns? Hmm.
Also I do not like they way those kids are photographed with those guns and glasses. Looks too thuggish for me

There is no corroboration that the kids were leaving their yards running down the street with weapons, or that they were firing these weapons. There is corroboration that the kids were in a yard shooting the airsoft guns.

Also these kids are practicing safe shooting practices by wearing eye protection.

I get that, but the way the photographer mae the photographs look thuggish is wrong to me.
Yes, but being in the yard does not exclude the fact they, at one point, could have left it.

Could have left doesn't matter.

I mean, I could easily have run over several pedestrians on my way to school. But I didnt .

Capacity to do something doesn't matter unless there is other evidence of wrongdoing.

What a bunch of idiots. The school, that is, not the children. A whole year suspended? They're also going to be in deep gak if anyone is actually hurt on their way to the bus stop. If they claim "not our responsibility", I could see multiple lawsuits heading their way before you can say "Games Workshop Legal Team".

Most of the schools I have been to have a rule which essentially says that if you are wearing your uniform you can be punished by the school for anything which is reported to them by "the public" even outside of school hours and outside of any school supplied transport.

As to this particular case... if only the children involved had real guns. That would have kept them safe from the school stepping on their rights!

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Most of the schools I have been to have a rule which essentially says that if you are wearing your uniform you can be punished by the school for anything which is reported to them by "the public" even outside of school hours and outside of any school supplied transport.

As to this particular case... if only the children involved had real guns. That would have kept them safe from the school stepping on their rights!

Agreed! A Kalashnikov for every kid!

do we have proof you didnt run anyone over? Or corroberation?
We have proof that at one point they where at their yards, and another pint a 911 call, that they where with the weapons. at that at point they arrived at the bus stop because someone believed them to be there.
I really think that people are not looking into this and only seeing "ZOMG, the goverment is invading out life"


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-Shrike- wrote:
What a bunch of idiots. The school, that is, not the children. A whole year suspended? They're also going to be in deep gak if anyone is actually hurt on their way to the bus stop. If they claim "not our responsibility", I could see multiple lawsuits heading their way before you can say "Games Workshop Legal Team".

Did no one read that they are still going to be allowed to go to an educational facility?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
do we have proof you didnt run anyone over? Or corroberation?
We have proof that at one point they where at their yards, and another pint a 911 call, that they where with the weapons. at that at point they arrived at the bus stop because someone believed them to be there.
I really think that people are not looking into this and only seeing "ZOMG, the goverment is invading out life"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

-Shrike- wrote:
What a bunch of idiots. The school, that is, not the children. A whole year suspended? They're also going to be in deep gak if anyone is actually hurt on their way to the bus stop. If they claim "not our responsibility", I could see multiple lawsuits heading their way before you can say "Games Workshop Legal Team".

Did no one read that they are still going to be allowed to go to an educational facility?

"Hey, are you new here?"
"Yeah, I just got moved halfway across the town after my year-long suspension because I was playing with my airsoft gun in the front yard."

I still think Zero Tolerance is fething stupid.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Did no one read that they are still going to be allowed to go to an educational facility?

No, I did read that they were going to be allowed at an alternative educational facility. Aidan was offered to attend Renaissance Academy, which looks like a fantastic school, certainly better than the gakhole that taught me.

Let's look at the school he could have been attending if his family hadn't chosen homeschooling.
Renaissance is home to the SECEP Re ED Program, a program that is designed for students from 5 to 21 with emotional disabilities that teaches them life skills in addition to the basic school curriculum (this sounds like your standard intervention specialist program). and the Tidewater Regional Alternative Educational Program that seeks to help students that have not met success in the traditional classroom. TRAEP contains a curriculum of English, Social Studies, math, and allows students to get their GED!

Also it seems that Renaissance has had some issues with personnel in the past:
http://wtkr.com/2013/03/08/beach-school-security-assistant-accused-of-inappropriate-contact-with-student/
http://www.wavy.com/news/local/va-beach/mom-says-secep-teacher-punched-child