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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 20:35:21
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So i was just reading up on the Cold War, Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and the Soviets for a few decades viewed small yield nuclear weaponry as a means to maintain tactical initiaitve and as a means to strike in the enemy rear to allow encirclements and break NATOs will to fight. So i was wondering if the Imperium has used anything like this to achieve victory, i thought of the Krieg civil war but that was pretty much a final gamble. Why doesn't the Imperium use tactical nukes to blow apart Tyranids hordes or Ork Waaghs? Or possibly even biological warfare? Lack of knowledge or just using masses of humans is much easier?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 20:38:12
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Confessor Of Sins
WA, USA
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Two big reasons, mostly:
1. Generally planets (or their resources/facilities) are more important than the people defending them. The Imperium has a lot of bodies, but technology and production capacity is far less abundant. Destroying a hive city or manufactorum sets back things in the sector by a factor of centuries, so all effort goes into keeping them intact and workable (therefore biological weapons wouldn't work all that well).
2. If things are so bad that there's no hope, they have Exterminatus, which makes a nuke look like a peashooter.
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Ouze wrote:
Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 20:38:58
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Because then there wouldn't be ONLY WAR!
Seriously though, if they nuked things all the time there would not be as much fighting... except against cancer caused by radiation...
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 20:47:47
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Washington State, US
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Nuclear weaponry is still used (man-portable nukes are carried around in the novel Baneblade, and IIRC they were part of the 2nd Armageddon War), it's just largely eschewed in favor of more precise laser weaponry.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 20:50:17
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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This isn't strategic level stuff though that wipes out entire cities, but designed knock out strong points, chokes points etc. Has any fluff ever mentioned a bio-engineered virus designed to solely target a specific race, although tyranids would probably just adapt to it but against orks it could wreak havoc? The tau could easily manage that. Maybe it would make the story move on too quickly.
TheSGC wrote:Nuclear weaponry is still used (man-portable nukes are carried around in the novel Baneblade, and IIRC they were part of the 2nd Armageddon War), it's just largely eschewed in favor of more precise laser weaponry.
ahhh cheers, you know the whereabouts of the fluff about the 2nd Armageddon War?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/30 20:51:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 20:54:54
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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uk_crow wrote:This isn't strategic level stuff though that wipes out entire cities, but designed knock out strong points, chokes points etc. Has any fluff ever mentioned a bio-engineered virus designed to solely target a specific race, although tyranids would probably just adapt to it but against orks it could wreak havoc? The tau could easily manage that. Maybe it would make the story move on too quickly.
Yeah all the time. The problem is if they start using stuff like that against their enemies things will escalate far too quickly.
Imagine if the Tau decided to bio-engineer a virus to kill humans?
Imagine if the Tyranids did the same...
Chaos would be even worse.
The Dark Eldar probably already do stuff like that anyway.
As for tactical stuff, they have more accurate and economical and probably more destructive weapons.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 20:55:32
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Confessor Of Sins
WA, USA
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uk_crow wrote:This isn't strategic level stuff though that wipes out entire cities, but designed knock out strong points, chokes points etc. Has any fluff ever mentioned a bio-engineered virus designed to solely target a specific race, although tyranids would probably just adapt to it but against orks it could wreak havoc? The tau could easily manage that. Maybe it would make the story move on too quickly
Well, you gotta remember that new technology like that just ain't in the Imperium's playbook, and it is pretty impractical when you get down to it. Let's take a disease for an example:
Marine targets are largely unaffected by disease, both physiologically and by virtue of power armor.
Tyranids adapt too quickly. By the time you figure out what works, they've evolved to be immune to it.
Daemons, not affected.
Orks, afaik, are pretty much immune to all but the hardest-hitting diseases, ala Nurgle level. I don't think the Imperium could cook up anything that would work. (but I may be wrong, needs citation)
Tau have plenty of environmentally-sealed suits and armors.
Eldar? Maybe. I imagine that they could out-maneuver any application, but it's possible.
Other Imperial forces? They hurt you just as bad as you hurt them.
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Ouze wrote:
Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 20:59:58
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Washington State, US
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uk_crow wrote:This isn't strategic level stuff though that wipes out entire cities, but designed knock out strong points, chokes points etc. Has any fluff ever mentioned a bio-engineered virus designed to solely target a specific race, although tyranids would probably just adapt to it but against orks it could wreak havoc? The tau could easily manage that. Maybe it would make the story move on too quickly.
TheSGC wrote:Nuclear weaponry is still used (man-portable nukes are carried around in the novel Baneblade, and IIRC they were part of the 2nd Armageddon War), it's just largely eschewed in favor of more precise laser weaponry.
ahhh cheers, you know the whereabouts of the fluff about the 2nd Armageddon War?
Never mind about the 2nd armageddon war, they were Virus missiles, not nukes. But Krieg had nukes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 21:02:20
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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The imperium has nukes and worse. Krieg is a desolate wasteland because of the overuse of "tactical" WMDs. The Deathstrike is essentially an ICBM with a huge warhead.
In tabletop terms it isn't used because weapons that on a 2+ kill all units on the table top and stop reserves for 6 turns aren't fun to play with.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 21:11:45
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Yeah I think the possibility of escalation with other races is a decent enough reason, especially the more advanced ones, who have the know how and will to use such devices. I realise that it isn't suitable for tabletop use due to the nature of them, but for background it could make for some interesting ideas.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 21:16:08
Subject: Re:Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Vortex Missiles ftw.
The background for Armageddon also mentioned stockpiles of old bio-weapons that wreaked havoc on the Imperial troops, but the Codex made it sound as if those aren't produced anymore. Many of the Imperium's WMDs may simply be Lostech by M41, but in most cases, a planet is spared simply because either there's something incredibly valuable down there, or because a dozen regiments of infantry and tanks are considered more expendable than a single uberdestructive planet-killer bomb that can only be manufactored on two worlds in the entire Imperium.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 21:27:07
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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uk_crow wrote:So i was just reading up on the Cold War, Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and the Soviets for a few decades viewed small yield nuclear weaponry as a means to maintain tactical initiaitve and as a means to strike in the enemy rear to allow encirclements and break NATOs will to fight. So i was wondering if the Imperium has used anything like this to achieve victory, i thought of the Krieg civil war but that was pretty much a final gamble. Why doesn't the Imperium use tactical nukes to blow apart Tyranids hordes or Ork Waaghs? Or possibly even biological warfare? Lack of knowledge or just using masses of humans is much easier?
they do do that. There are countless WMDs used by all factions. Nukes, viruses, chemical weapons, planet killing weapons, and worse. The problem is you cannot accurately describe how these weapons on a tabletop battlefield when each player fields ~50 toy soldiers
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/30 22:45:54
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Mighty Vampire Count
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Nukes were used on Armegeddon in at least one BL novel IIRC and caused EMP damage to Titans and other Imperial equipment so it may be a Adeptus Mechanicus decree............
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 00:24:03
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
somewhere in the northern side of the beachball
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uk_crow wrote:So i was just reading up on the Cold War, Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and the Soviets for a few decades viewed small yield nuclear weaponry as a means to maintain tactical initiaitve and as a means to strike in the enemy rear to allow encirclements and break NATOs will to fight. So i was wondering if the Imperium has used anything like this to achieve victory, i thought of the Krieg civil war but that was pretty much a final gamble. Why doesn't the Imperium use tactical nukes to blow apart Tyranids hordes or Ork Waaghs? Or possibly even biological warfare? Lack of knowledge or just using masses of humans is much easier?
I think the main problem is that people think that nukes and other weapon of mass destruction are just pressing the magic button.
Exterminatus destroys the entire planets. Exterminatus requires space dominance. Sometimes getting space dominance is not that easy.
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Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.
If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 00:37:00
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Hellacious Havoc
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uk_crow wrote:So i was just reading up on the Cold War, Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and the Soviets for a few decades viewed small yield nuclear weaponry as a means to maintain tactical initiaitve and as a means to strike in the enemy rear to allow encirclements and break NATOs will to fight. So i was wondering if the Imperium has used anything like this to achieve victory, i thought of the Krieg civil war but that was pretty much a final gamble. Why doesn't the Imperium use tactical nukes to blow apart Tyranids hordes or Ork Waaghs? Or possibly even biological warfare? Lack of knowledge or just using masses of humans is much easier?
The same reason why games of 40k don't (always) revolve around attaining air superiority, then carpet bombing the enemy with waves upon waves of strategic bombers. Because if the Imperial Guard tote up some Davey Crocketts to blow the Orks to pieces, then call it a day, there's no conflict to make a miniatures game about.
In this setting, at least, "escalation' really isn't a concern, because it relies on the idea that the other side is executing restraint. Unless defending one's own soil, Tau are probably the only race that would practice even the slightest restraint, and even defending home turf, Orks wouldn't likely restrain themselves from using the biggest, flashiest dakka they have, because they can.
illuknisaa wrote: uk_crow wrote:So i was just reading up on the Cold War, Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and the Soviets for a few decades viewed small yield nuclear weaponry as a means to maintain tactical initiaitve and as a means to strike in the enemy rear to allow encirclements and break NATOs will to fight. So i was wondering if the Imperium has used anything like this to achieve victory, i thought of the Krieg civil war but that was pretty much a final gamble. Why doesn't the Imperium use tactical nukes to blow apart Tyranids hordes or Ork Waaghs? Or possibly even biological warfare? Lack of knowledge or just using masses of humans is much easier?
I think the main problem is that people think that nukes and other weapon of mass destruction are just pressing the magic button.
Exterminatus destroys the entire planets. Exterminatus requires space dominance. Sometimes getting space dominance is not that easy.
OP means tactical nukes. Exterminatus is strategic. Tactical nukes only scorch a small amount of earth, and can be man-portable.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 00:39:00
Necroshea wrote:You - You there, wolf heathen! I long for combat!
Wolf heathen - I accept your challenge, but only on my terms! 250% points for me!
You - Ha! You've activated my trap card! Allied army! Come forth to assist!
Friend - Sup
Wolf Heathen - An equal point match?! This is not acceptable! Tau friend! Form up on me!
And then some guy throws a manta at the table and promptly breaks it in half sending figures and terrain everywhere. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 00:40:53
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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They execute restraint because they don't want to give the other sides ideas.
Which is also why they stopped enacting exterminatus on full-fledged daemon worlds.
Imagine if the Tau decided that a human killing virus was a great idea and just modified it slightly to spread quickly, work quickly and be difficult to defeat. You may not kill of entire worlds but you'd throw defending forces into disarray.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 03:30:16
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Regular Dakkanaut
New Orleans, LA
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purplefood wrote:They execute restraint because they don't want to give the other sides ideas.
Which is also why they stopped enacting exterminatus on full-fledged daemon worlds.
Imagine if the Tau decided that a human killing virus was a great idea and just modified it slightly to spread quickly, work quickly and be difficult to defeat. You may not kill of entire worlds but you'd throw defending forces into disarray.
With the exception of Tau, no force the Imperium comes into conflict with would really give a damn. Keep in mind this is also a setting that *emphasizes* brutal, unimaginable conflict.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 04:26:30
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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curran12 wrote: uk_crow wrote:This isn't strategic level stuff though that wipes out entire cities, but designed knock out strong points, chokes points etc. Has any fluff ever mentioned a bio-engineered virus designed to solely target a specific race, although tyranids would probably just adapt to it but against orks it could wreak havoc? The tau could easily manage that. Maybe it would make the story move on too quickly
Well, you gotta remember that new technology like that just ain't in the Imperium's playbook, and it is pretty impractical when you get down to it. Let's take a disease for an example:
Marine targets are largely unaffected by disease, both physiologically and by virtue of power armor.
Tyranids adapt too quickly. By the time you figure out what works, they've evolved to be immune to it.
Daemons, not affected.
Orks, afaik, are pretty much immune to all but the hardest-hitting diseases, ala Nurgle level. I don't think the Imperium could cook up anything that would work. (but I may be wrong, needs citation)
Tau have plenty of environmentally-sealed suits and armors.
Eldar? Maybe. I imagine that they could out-maneuver any application, but it's possible.
Other Imperial forces? They hurt you just as bad as you hurt them.
Eldar medical technology is also extremely advanced, to the point that I'd imagine that those on the path of the healer would fairly trivially be able to overcome pretty much anything short of the life eater virus you throw at them.
And the Necrons aren't going to be bothered by any disease no matter how virulent for obvious reasons.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 05:50:06
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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codemonkey wrote: uk_crow wrote:So i was just reading up on the Cold War, Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and the Soviets for a few decades viewed small yield nuclear weaponry as a means to maintain tactical initiaitve and as a means to strike in the enemy rear to allow encirclements and break NATOs will to fight. So i was wondering if the Imperium has used anything like this to achieve victory, i thought of the Krieg civil war but that was pretty much a final gamble. Why doesn't the Imperium use tactical nukes to blow apart Tyranids hordes or Ork Waaghs? Or possibly even biological warfare? Lack of knowledge or just using masses of humans is much easier?
The same reason why games of 40k don't (always) revolve around attaining air superiority, then carpet bombing the enemy with waves upon waves of strategic bombers. Because if the Imperial Guard tote up some Davey Crocketts to blow the Orks to pieces, then call it a day, there's no conflict to make a miniatures game about.
40k missions are objective based. You dont want to use nukes because the magic objectives cant take the radiation.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 10:42:31
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Vaerros wrote: purplefood wrote:They execute restraint because they don't want to give the other sides ideas.
Which is also why they stopped enacting exterminatus on full-fledged daemon worlds.
Imagine if the Tau decided that a human killing virus was a great idea and just modified it slightly to spread quickly, work quickly and be difficult to defeat. You may not kill of entire worlds but you'd throw defending forces into disarray.
With the exception of Tau, no force the Imperium comes into conflict with would really give a damn. Keep in mind this is also a setting that *emphasizes* brutal, unimaginable conflict.
Possibly not. But it's not about them giving a damn. It's about them getting ideas.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 11:04:40
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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uk_crow wrote:So i was just reading up on the Cold War, Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and the Soviets for a few decades viewed small yield nuclear weaponry as a means to maintain tactical initiaitve and as a means to strike in the enemy rear to allow encirclements and break NATOs will to fight. So i was wondering if the Imperium has used anything like this to achieve victory, i thought of the Krieg civil war but that was pretty much a final gamble. Why doesn't the Imperium use tactical nukes to blow apart Tyranids hordes or Ork Waaghs? Or possibly even biological warfare? Lack of knowledge or just using masses of humans is much easier?
It is just a thematic/ethical oversight on GW's part. The image of a Space Marine fighting a gritty war in the shadow of mushroom clouds doesn't convey the same message as a Space Marine heroically fighting waves after waves of enemies while enjoying the sunlight. You can say that nukes (and other tactical WMDs) are too grimdark for GW.
Also, the Tau employs nuclear weapons: their Darkstar warheads are effectively low-yield neutron bombs.
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My armies:
14000 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 11:10:41
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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I would think the weapons used in an Exterminatus would make a nuclear bomb look like a BB gun. You'd be talking cobalt bomb scale destruction.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 11:34:54
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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AtoMaki wrote:It is just a thematic/ethical oversight on GW's part. The image of a Space Marine fighting a gritty war in the shadow of mushroom clouds doesn't convey the same message as a Space Marine heroically fighting waves after waves of enemies while enjoying the sunlight. You can say that nukes (and other tactical WMDs) are too grimdark for GW.
Too grimdark? i never thought i'd hear those words  The idea of space marines fighting over a nuclear wasteland sounds pretty cool to me, possibly why i like the brotherhood of steel in the Fallout series.
@SoloFalcon1138: See exterminatus is a strategic level weaponry, i'm talking more about tactical level stuff, so small scale use of relatively powerful weapons on a front to regain, hold or increase the advantage you have over your adversary.
I was reading the HH: Betrayal and Destroyer squads are probably the only real users of Tactical WMDs that I have found, they sound brutal, i wonder why they aren't in use in the 41st Millenium? Maybe they've forgotten how to produce them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 11:42:51
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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uk_crow wrote:So i was just reading up on the Cold War, Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and the Soviets for a few decades viewed small yield nuclear weaponry as a means to maintain tactical initiaitve and as a means to strike in the enemy rear to allow encirclements and break NATOs will to fight. So i was wondering if the Imperium has used anything like this to achieve victory, i thought of the Krieg civil war but that was pretty much a final gamble. Why doesn't the Imperium use tactical nukes to blow apart Tyranids hordes or Ork Waaghs? Or possibly even biological warfare? Lack of knowledge or just using masses of humans is much easier?
Well there are at least two methods used that do that actually:
1. Deathstrike missiles. These are missiles with continental distance capability that have vortex bomb warheads.  I don't know if they are orbital achieving ICBMs but likely.
2. Orbital bombardment. Orbital bombardment is routinely used in fluff, and in game (EPIC). It can be anything from a couple of shots to hit an area or strike a titan/titan sized bunker up to a continental wide bombardment. There's some nice fluff drawings in one of the campaign books of the effects of such a bombardment on the continental crust. Yikes!
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 11:43:57
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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uk_crow wrote: AtoMaki wrote:It is just a thematic/ethical oversight on GW's part. The image of a Space Marine fighting a gritty war in the shadow of mushroom clouds doesn't convey the same message as a Space Marine heroically fighting waves after waves of enemies while enjoying the sunlight. You can say that nukes (and other tactical WMDs) are too grimdark for GW.
Too grimdark? i never thought i'd hear those words 
The Warhammer 40k world is more like "Heroic Grimdark" than "Real Grimdark". Full-scale nuclear warfare is way too un-heroic for its current theme.
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My armies:
14000 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 11:49:21
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker
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uk_crow wrote:This isn't strategic level stuff though that wipes out entire cities, but designed knock out strong points, chokes points etc. Has any fluff ever mentioned a bio-engineered virus designed to solely target a specific race, although tyranids would probably just adapt to it but against orks it could wreak havoc? The tau could easily manage that. Maybe it would make the story move on too quickly.
TheSGC wrote:Nuclear weaponry is still used (man-portable nukes are carried around in the novel Baneblade, and IIRC they were part of the 2nd Armageddon War), it's just largely eschewed in favor of more precise laser weaponry.
ahhh cheers, you know the whereabouts of the fluff about the 2nd Armageddon War?
One such bio-weapon was used by the TAU. Its in the fluff part of the Farsight Enclaves, used against the Tyranids. As for the Imperium they 1)don't like change and 2)have very few people that come up with new ideas since you generrally get branded as a heritic.
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Why would you deep strike a lander raider?
Because i can and hey it worked didn't it?
BA-4k+ Gaurd 4K+
Tau 4k+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 12:00:44
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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AtoMaki wrote: uk_crow wrote:So i was just reading up on the Cold War, Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and the Soviets for a few decades viewed small yield nuclear weaponry as a means to maintain tactical initiaitve and as a means to strike in the enemy rear to allow encirclements and break NATOs will to fight. So i was wondering if the Imperium has used anything like this to achieve victory, i thought of the Krieg civil war but that was pretty much a final gamble. Why doesn't the Imperium use tactical nukes to blow apart Tyranids hordes or Ork Waaghs? Or possibly even biological warfare? Lack of knowledge or just using masses of humans is much easier? It is just a thematic/ethical oversight on GW's part. The image of a Space Marine fighting a gritty war in the shadow of mushroom clouds doesn't convey the same message as a Space Marine heroically fighting waves after waves of enemies while enjoying the sunlight. You can say that nukes (and other tactical WMDs) are too grimdark for GW. Also, the Tau employs nuclear weapons: their Darkstar warheads are effectively low-yield neutron bombs. They already fight in clouds of debris. I have never seen warhammer 40k artwork where the skies are clear. The reason why they don't nuke everything all willy nilly is the same reason why we don't nuke everything; too much collateral damage. That said, the IoM will nuke the gak out of something if they think they have nothing to lose. See: Krieg.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 12:02:25
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 13:22:07
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Lemartes12 wrote: uk_crow wrote:This isn't strategic level stuff though that wipes out entire cities, but designed knock out strong points, chokes points etc. Has any fluff ever mentioned a bio-engineered virus designed to solely target a specific race, although tyranids would probably just adapt to it but against orks it could wreak havoc? The tau could easily manage that. Maybe it would make the story move on too quickly.
TheSGC wrote:Nuclear weaponry is still used (man-portable nukes are carried around in the novel Baneblade, and IIRC they were part of the 2nd Armageddon War), it's just largely eschewed in favor of more precise laser weaponry.
ahhh cheers, you know the whereabouts of the fluff about the 2nd Armageddon War?
One such bio-weapon was used by the TAU. Its in the fluff part of the Farsight Enclaves, used against the Tyranids. As for the Imperium they 1)don't like change and 2)have very few people that come up with new ideas since you generrally get branded as a heritic.
The problem with biological warfare against the Tyranids is that it only ever works once. The next time you use it, the entirety of the Tyranid race has already evolved to be immune to it. This includes both the Ultramarines' and the Blood Ravens' tricks for it.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 14:36:27
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I don't think Chaos would care whether or not the Imperium uses nukes. Chaos isn't about showing restraint in any situation. That said, Chaos generally doesn't use nukes most of the time for the same reason the Imperials don't in most cases (IE, they'd rather capture the planet in tact for its slaves and resources and... play-things), the exception being Khorne who instead doesn't use nukes that often because he prefers close combat (Dawn of War II really messed up their idea of Khorne on that front. Seriously, a psyker getting Khorne's favor because he got a planet to get exterimatus'd? The feth?).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/01 16:45:34
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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TiamatRoar wrote:I don't think Chaos would care whether or not the Imperium uses nukes. Chaos isn't about showing restraint in any situation. That said, Chaos generally doesn't use nukes most of the time for the same reason the Imperials don't in most cases (IE, they'd rather capture the planet in tact for its slaves and resources and... play-things), the exception being Khorne who instead doesn't use nukes that often because he prefers close combat (Dawn of War II really messed up their idea of Khorne on that front. Seriously, a psyker getting Khorne's favor because he got a planet to get exterimatus'd? The feth?).
Khorne's happy with bloodshed no matter where it comes from. He dislikes sorcery for bringing it in a way he disapproves of, but as he demonstrably has ranged units (Khorne's teeth) he clearly only has that single issue. Bringing the deaths of billions of people and merging with one of his most powerful Bloodthirsters (the Daemon of the Maledictum) after orchestrating at least a decade of constant slaughter is a great way to get Khorne's jollies off.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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