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Also with y'alls marker drones squads...

how do you all normally take them? Min squads of 4?
Upgrade all of them to marker drones?
1-2 squads?

They seem pretty awesome hahah I really like the way drones look as well so fielding a bunch of them over the Pathfinders will be fun lol

 syypher wrote:
Also with y'alls marker drones squads...

how do you all normally take them? Min squads of 4?
Upgrade all of them to marker drones?
1-2 squads?

They seem pretty awesome hahah I really like the way drones look as well so fielding a bunch of them over the Pathfinders will be fun lol

You've got a couple of options depending on if you are fielding a Marko Commander or not.

If you are planning on a Marko, 2xMissile Pods, Target Lock, Drone Controller, 2xMarker Drones(saves 4 points), Iriidum Armor(If Tau Empire) is an effective loadout.

Attatch him to either a Minimal Marker Squad for 6 BS5 Markerlights. Alternatively you can attach him to a 2xMisslePod, Target Lock squad of suits with Marker Drones. Yields up to 8 BS5 Markerlights and they are cheap, again Marko's Target Lock and shooting synergies and Targets Locks out from the Marker Lights. If you go the Crisis route, the Marker Drones serve a dual purpose, they are also ablative wounds if you aren't running Iridium Armor. IMO an Iridium Marko works best with the Missile Pod Crisis Suits.

If you aren't taking a Marko, two squads of 6 can be effective as they will average two Markerlight Hits per squad. But, these are easy to kill and really could use a force multiplier like Guide or Precience to be truly effective.

Edit: Ninja'd

Typically the Mark'O Commander you put with the marker drones has 2 drones of his own for a 4pt discount lol. Why not points are points right? lol. Just mark them so you know which are his and which are the unit, as it can make a difference if the unit gets shot up. if theres only 1 drone left you are going to want to know if its the unit or his normal drone. If its his normal drone, get him to another unit!!

6 is really all you need. Those markerlights are relentless and BS5 (with the Mark'O)....they will land unless its a flier. 6 markerlights is more than enough to lay some heat on a unit, ive never even used it all since usually what i buffed with it didnt need it all (just needed 4).
You can get a couple more if you want ablative wounds, but remember these things are also jetpack units so they move 2D6 in the assault phase. Theyre much easier to keep hidden than pathfinders, just a bit more expensive to do so. The drones themselves arent that bad and ive thought of running them without a Mark'O since theyre tougher than pathfinders, mobile, and only 3pts more per model. Downside is when they dont need to move theyre BS2 instead of 3....meh. The Mark'O usually costs you ~140pts unless you literally just give him retro thrusters (hit and run) and the drone controller. But he is actually able to shoot in this mode, so might as well give him dual missile pods and a target lock so he can snipe things lol.

Ive pretty much been using pathfinders exclusively right now. Contemplating putting marker drones on broadside squads since i am intending to run 2 of them fully loaded supported by an ethereal (Zephyr's Grace so they can get somewhere, since therye firing snaps anyway, and LD10 in a 12" bubble while bonded? all for 50pts? yes please) so i dont have a third HQ slot for the Mark'O lol. Or the points for that matter

With markerdrones (mobile marker lights are essential!), you can either field them as a Mark'O squad (BS5 Shas'o with drone controller in an FA drone squad) OR field drones with a crisis squad.

Best way to do that is to maximise the drones per drone controller, i.e. one squad of 3, 6 drones. You do pay a 8pt + 15pt premium & loose out on one weapon but it does afford you ablative wounds and requires one slot (elites/troops) as compared to 2 slots (FA &HQ).

I use a squad like this with 3 fusion & 2 plasma. All suits have target locks. The squad may not get in range t1 with the suit weapons but it works well, often the drones providing ablative wounds whilst being useful at providing highly mobile ML support. I do see the risk with small pathfinder squads (fire blood, FA victory point missions) but that being said, I still find them highly effective. (I use both!)

 lambsandlions wrote:

 syypher wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


I take a Markerdrone unit for one set of Markerlights. the second set comes from a set of three Firesight Marksman. I have two Pathfinder units, but they are not used for Markerlights.

Interesting stuff guys! All the articles I've been reading were released when the Tau codex came out and everyone was raving about Pathfinder usage with Marker Lights. I guess that's changed over the past couple months

I'm thinking of using a Skyray so once it's unloaded I'll still have those 2 Markerlights and maybe a MarkerDrone unit. Sounds legit~


What is the optimal loadout of a Crisis suit? The wargear says I can take up to 3 weapons but I don't know if that's worth the point investment on a marine statline model... Are they worth their points? T4 3+ save... and with 2x Missile Pods, they are 57pts each. Is that even worth it anymore? Or do most people keep them with just 1x Missile Pod? Or am I equipping them less than optimal.

Most people seem to be moving away from pathfinders because they are so easy to kill and not mobile. Marker drones with a commander, often in a crisis suit team, are bs5 t4 sv4+ sometimes hiding behind sv2+ commanders. The marker drones are mobile and can jsj. They only cost 1 or 3 points more than pathfinders depending on how you by them. They seem like the best choice for mass reliable markerlights.

Firesight marksmen are rarely brought up but are also great sources of marker lights. They have bs5, markerlights and stealth for only 2 points more than pathfinders. But you must pay a 45pt task to get 3 sniper drones, which isn't horrible, but not amazing either. One trick you can do is get an ethereal with 2 marker drones and join them to the sniper team. Because the firesight marksmen have drone controllers your marker drones are bs5, so now you can get 5 bs5 markerlights out of the unit. Because of majority toughness the unit is t4 instead of t3 and gets a 3+ cover save in ruins, so they are much harder to kill than pathfinders. Sniper drones also pair nicely with an ethereal because they have pulse weapons, so they can fire 3 times at 24''.

Skyrays are very legit. They give out 2 marker light hits 44% of time time, so it is not a reliable way to strip cover but are good at boosting bs by 1 or 2. But the main thing is skyrays make taking down fliers so much easier. One markerlight hit nearly doubles a broadsides accuracy against fliers.

Well, people are trying to use Pathfinders incorrectly, and that is why people are moving away from them. Like usual, the meta ignores anything but the straightforward battlefield role of any unit. Surprising how often i hear people take 6 Pathfinder units and line them up, as if they can possibly survive in a role as Markerlight caddies. is the enemy blind? Probably not. Do they know what the markerlights can do to them? absolutely. So taking them this way is asking for an execution squad. And so people stop taking them as much...missing the GREAT opportunity that Pathfinders provide you in other ways.

Firesight marksman are really quite valuable. the Rapid firing Sniper rifles with 48" base range? Even if you only take three, thats pretty good. Ethereals as you pointed out, can hide with them and of course the advantage of the Ethereal to the unit in general is...good.

But consider what a utility commander adds to the Marker drone unit and compare that value to the Firesight Marksman. Just saying. Its a VERY fair deal.

My issue with using pathfinders in that fashion is they are so bloody squishy, any random infantry squad can put the hurt on them hardcore. And their special guns feel out of place to me since you cant fully deck the squad out in them.

Iunno i guess their tactic is just too foreign to me to understand. I mainly play orks after all lol.

I don't use pathfinders for markerlights. I use them like an outflanking plasmavet squad would be used.

AnonAmbientLight wrote:


The previous argument was you going balls to the wall holding on to the fact that a Riptide is poo dick against AV14 when MULTIPLE TIMES through the thread i pointed out ALL THE OTHER things it could do and why it should be considered.

And please, I CANT READ? melon-fether, i had to fething SHOVE the Gets Hot rule down your fething face after i presented the ENTIRE rule to you, not just as interpretation, but COPY fething PASTE about three times before you finally stopped being a complete cock about it.

It's really no surprise to me that you can't read, and no surprise at all that you would flip-flop on the Riptide.

NOW i'm derailing this thread you fething man-child.

Winning!

This has been a very informative tread. I'm currently putting together a farsight/tau army with a lot of crisis suits because I just like the idea of having a bunch suits running around.

I know I want to have at least one squad with 2x burst and 2x gun drones-so much dakka it's fun.

Then it comes down to how to build some missile pod suits and the rest of the army...

Will 1 unit with 6 marker drones and a commander with marker drones/controller be enough or should I have multiples? Are sky rays worth it?

No matter what it is, a single unit of markerlights will not be enough. Not just talking about lack of multiple targets getting marked up, but that one unit is going to be focus fired to hell and back because once its gone, your markerlights are gone for good.

Skyrays are useful if you know how to use them properly. They are not fast, so they only fire 1 markerlight at BS4 if they move at all, gotta be mindful of that. They are mainly there for a cheap anti air unit since the 6 missiles will obliterate any flier (barring bad luck) and now you got 2 skyfire-capable markerlights for any other fliers...on a platform noones going to shoot at once the missiles are gone.
Usually what you want to do is add disruption pods and just zip back and forward while you wait for fliers to appear. This includes turboboosting as it gives you a 3+ cover save. The turn a flier shows up, dont move. In your shooting phase, light it up and fire your missiles normally at BS5. They dont ignore cover this way, but you are shooting all 6 at BS5/6 rather than 2 at BS5 w/ ignores cover.
You lose the coversave this way unless you found a nice ruin to camp in for a default cover, but like i said its unlikely its going to get shot at once the missiles are gone as anti-tank weapons will have more threatening targets to deal with most of the time than an AV13/12/10 vehicle that only has markerlights lol.

You guys rock and are super helpful! w00t for the Tau community

One thing is I'm having a hard time fitting in a Buff-Commander AND a Marker-Commander into my 1500 and 1850 lists. Not because the slots (HQ+FA) are filled but because of points and other stuff that seem like they need to be in the list. I'm not very use to building Tau lists that seem to really shine once these force multipliers are applied.

I actually don't like the tiny min squad of Pathfinders in my 1500 list. I have the Skyray to help with some Markerlights once it's unloaded but I feel 1 squad isn't enough. I'd feel more comfortable with a 2nd squad but my experience isn't sufficient enough so I'm turning to more advice from you guys! And with my 1850 list I'm not sure about my Markerlight distribution either.

The only thing really benefiting from the Markerlights really is the Riptides. With TL coming from the Commanders C&C Node and the Farseers Psychic Re-roll ability, do I need more Markerlights? I know it'll help with the scatter for the IA Riptide but I honestly I'm not sure where to go as far as optimizing my lists.


TLDR: Please help me optimize/min/max my lists. I'm unsure if more Markerlights are needed since mostly only the Riptide benefits from it.


My 1500 list:
Commander (M3S, Puretide chip, C&C Node)
Riptide (IA, TL SMS, EWO)
Riptide (HBC, SMS, EWO)
10 man Fire Warrior Team
10 man Kroot Squad + Kroot Hound
4 man Pathfinder Squad
Sky Ray (Blacksun Filter, Disruption Pod)
2 man Broadside Squad (TL SMS, TL HYMS, EWO)
Farseer
5 man DA + WS (TL Scatter, Shuri Cannon, Holo)
5 man DA + WS (TL Scatter, Shuri Cannon, Holo)

My 1850 list:
Commander (M3S, Puretide chip, C&C Node)
Riptide (IA, TL SMS, EWO)
Riptide (HBC, SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker)
10 man Fire Warrior Team
10 man Kroot Squad + Kroot Hound
4 man Pathfinder Squad
Hammerhead (Blacksun Filter, Disruption Pod)
Sky Ray (Blacksun Filter, Disruption Pod)
3 man Broadside Squad (TL SMS, TL HYMS, EWO)
Farseer
5 man DA + WS (TL Scatter, Shuri Cannon, Holo)
5 man DA + WS (TL Scatter, Shuri Cannon, Holo)
Fire Prism (Holo)

 syypher wrote:
You guys rock and are super helpful! w00t for the Tau community

One thing is I'm having a hard time fitting in a Buff-Commander AND a Marker-Commander into my 1500 and 1850 lists. Not because the slots (HQ+FA) are filled but because of points and other stuff that seem like they need to be in the list. I'm not very use to building Tau lists that seem to really shine once these force multipliers are applied.

I actually don't like the tiny min squad of Pathfinders in my 1500 list. I have the Skyray to help with some Markerlights once it's unloaded but I feel 1 squad isn't enough. I'd feel more comfortable with a 2nd squad but my experience isn't sufficient enough so I'm turning to more advice from you guys! And with my 1850 list I'm not sure about my Markerlight distribution either.

The only thing really benefiting from the Markerlights really is the Riptides. With TL coming from the Commanders C&C Node and the Farseers Psychic Re-roll ability, do I need more Markerlights? I know it'll help with the scatter for the IA Riptide but I honestly I'm not sure where to go as far as optimizing my lists.


TLDR: Please help me optimize/min/max my lists. I'm unsure if more Markerlights are needed since mostly only the Riptide benefits from it.


My 1500 list:
Commander (M3S, Puretide chip, C&C Node)
Riptide (IA, TL SMS, EWO)
Riptide (HBC, SMS, EWO)
10 man Fire Warrior Team
10 man Kroot Squad + Kroot Hound
4 man Pathfinder Squad
Sky Ray (Blacksun Filter, Disruption Pod)
2 man Broadside Squad (TL SMS, TL HYMS, EWO)
Farseer
5 man DA + WS (TL Scatter, Shuri Cannon, Holo)
5 man DA + WS (TL Scatter, Shuri Cannon, Holo)

My 1850 list:
Commander (M3S, Puretide chip, C&C Node)
Riptide (IA, TL SMS, EWO)
Riptide (HBC, SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker)
10 man Fire Warrior Team
10 man Kroot Squad + Kroot Hound
4 man Pathfinder Squad
Hammerhead (Blacksun Filter, Disruption Pod)
Sky Ray (Blacksun Filter, Disruption Pod)
3 man Broadside Squad (TL SMS, TL HYMS, EWO)
Farseer
5 man DA + WS (TL Scatter, Shuri Cannon, Holo)
5 man DA + WS (TL Scatter, Shuri Cannon, Holo)
Fire Prism (Holo)

Wow, you really went all out on the Force Multipliers. You really don't need those pathfinders in addition to the Buffmander and the Farseer. I would swap that Railhead for another Skyray and spend the points saved by the Pathfinders, maybe a Stim Injector for one of your Riptides or some Missile Drones for your Broadsides.

Hammerheads with Railguns are kinda meh. They can work but they flop an do nothing more than an unsupported riptide since its a single shot that isnt twinlinked. An invul save or any form of cover you didnt strip with marker support can make it flop if you didnt fail the to hit or to wound already.

The Ionheads are actually pretty good, but i dont think you need it in that last. I dont know jack about eldar so im not sure what i would bring.

My 1850 list:
Commander (M3S, Puretide chip, C&C Node)

There is never, ever, ever a reason to miss out on Iridium Armor. Also, you don't need C&C Node if he is going with the Broadsides.

Riptide (IA, TL SMS, EWO)
Riptide (HBC, SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker)

These are solid, though I'd consider the TL Fusion Blaster with the Ion Tide.

10 man Fire Warrior Team
10 man Kroot Squad + Kroot Hound

Fire Warriors...not so great, especially in low numbers. You save points with another Kroot unit.

4 man Pathfinder Squad

Pointless. Drop them.

Hammerhead (Blacksun Filter, Disruption Pod)

Another Skyray is a better buy. Hammerheads aren't very good.

Sky Ray (Blacksun Filter, Disruption Pod)

The Disruption Pod isn't all that worthwhile.

3 man Broadside Squad (TL SMS, TL HYMS, EWO)

Take 4-6 Marker Drones here and Target Locks on the Bsides.

Farseer
5 man DA + WS (TL Scatter, Shuri Cannon, Holo)
5 man DA + WS (TL Scatter, Shuri Cannon, Holo)

A bike is essential for a Farseer. I'd drop the Holo Fields as well. They do nothing versus other Tau (markerlights), Eldar (Serpents), and Daemons (assault). Those are the big three of competitive 40k.

Fire Prism (Holo)

I personally hate the Fire Prism. Overrated and overcosted for one shot.

I'd run something to the effect of:

Commander-Iridium, Puretide, MSSS, Drone Controller, Onagar Gauntlet
3 Broadsides with Target Lock, 5 Marker Drones
Riptide w HBC, SMS, Velocity, EWO
Riptide w Ion, EWO, Fusion
2x Skyrays with Blacksun, SMS
3x 10 Kroot w Hound
Bikeseer
2x5 DA in Serpent w Scatter
Night Spinner

1850

Still along the lines of your list, but with some key fixes. The Broadsides split fire and the drones provide markers. The Commander gives out Monster/Tank Hunter, and makes the Drones BS 5. He also tanks wounds with T5 and a 2+. 2 Skyrays help with Marker support and anti-air.

Kroot provide more numerous troops than you had. The Bike on the Farseer lets him join a Tide and jump 2d6 in the assault phase as well. The Seer can also split off end game to contest. The Night Spinner can be replaced by a variety of units, but it is never a bad idea to have Barrage in 6th edition.

@syypher

If you are going to take a buffing commander, you really need to give him a good home or he really isn't worth it. I assume he is mostly going with the broadsides, but 2 broadsides don't benefit much from a buffing commander. If you fill out that unit, making it 3 broadsides w/ target lock and 6 missile drones, the commander becomes worth it.

The HBC riptide doesn't seem amazing to me. You already have so much s6/7 shots (even more if you take those missile drones). I would make it another IA riptide. And your riptides don't really need markerlights that bad. Markerlights are great, don't get me wrong, but 4 pathfinders is not enough markerlight support and I would rather not have them than try to use a unit of 4.

Is there a place for 20-24 fire warriors, a fireblade and a Black Sun Ethereal?

The amount of dakka at range is just phenomenal.

I love Wraithknights with a Tau list. Helps a ton vs the Screamer deathstar. They also can nullify dog squads and scare the hell out of DPs. Adding a bit of speedy counterattack will also keep folks a little more at bay. Not to mention his durability fits in with the Riptides, AV13 Rays and the Serpents.

Also, Hit and Run on the Commander is good. I think it is more useful than the Onager.

Never ever ever a reason to not take iridium on a buffmander? dont think ive ever taken it and never needed it. Hes always hiding behind a riptide or a group of broadsides. Yeah it could be useful in broadsides but its still 25pts i MIGHT actually come into play once or twice the entire game, and probably not do much.

Hes an IC, so any LOS to the Riptides are on a 2+ and the Riptide is more durable since he has a stock 5++ at least.

If he goes with your Broadsides, Iridium is well-worth it (I even consider the Stim Injector now) because it will allow you to absorb some of the low AP/Str.8+ shots.

Thanks guys! To be honest I didn't even think of joining my buff commander with the broadsides since they have a TL gun already.

I was only considering putting him with the riptides. Is a broadside squad worth giving a bunch of missile drones to? O.o

Also what are your guys thought on something one of the more experienced tau player at my lfgs said. "Broadsides are better than riptides since they dish out lots more shots with no chance of hurting yourself." He's suggesting taking 9 broadsides as better...thoughts?

Thing about the broadsides is the twinlink part isnt wasted, Missile Drones are not twin linked and thats 12 S7 AP4 shots. They dont benefit from drone controllers sadly but throw a couple markerlights for BS bonus like you normally would anyway and now you got 24 basically WILL hit S7 AP4 shots instead of 12 and maybe another 5.

If you are really stressed for 15pts, you could drop it since it doesnt benefit the unit as much as others. Somehow i doubt you are that hard pressed for points lol, i usually have a random 50-60pts when i put tau lists together that for some reason i have issues getting rid of lol

So let me get this straight... first off if I have a drone controller only THAT MODELS drones benefits from getting their BS right?

If that's the case...and I want to try out those 6x Missile Drones in the Broadside squad since everyone and their mom is telling me it's awesome and also get more Marker Lights out there I should do something like this:

Commander: M3S, Neuro Chip, Drone Controller, the TL support system, 2x Markerlight Drones (If the drones shoot, it doesnt count as the Commander shooting right?
3x Broadsides: SMS, HYMS, Target Lock, 2x Missile Drones each

How does shooting the Missile Drones work? Let's say I choose an initial target and my Markerlight Drones shoot at it, now what can my Missile Drones shoot at? Only the same target as their designated Broadside? The entire squad still gets rerolls though right since the Commander is attached? And if my commander doesn't shoot and I choose tank hunter everyone essentially get's rerolls also on their glance/pens, including the drones?

Missile drones are specifically exempt from the bonus of the Drone Controller

On the plus side, with Missile drones, if your Broadsides move, the drones don't wind up snap firing. In fact, since all the Broadside's weapons are twin linked, the Broadsides and the missile drones are all effectively the same BS if the unit moves.

So let me get this straight... first off if I have a drone controller only THAT MODELS drones benefits from getting their BS right?

Negative. The rules specifically state that "All gun drones, marker drones, and sniper drones in the same unit as a model with a drone controller" use that model's BS.

If that's the case...and I want to try out those 6x Missile Drones in the Broadside squad since everyone and their mom is telling me it's awesome and also get more Marker Lights out there I should do something like this:

Commander: M3S, Neuro Chip, Drone Controller, the TL support system, 2x Markerlight Drones (If the drones shoot, it doesnt count as the Commander shooting right?
3x Broadsides: SMS, HYMS, Target Lock, 2x Missile Drones each

No. The drones do not count as the commander shooting. Also, Missile Drones do not benefit from a Drone Controller.

IMO, you want Iridium Armor with the Broadsides. You don't really need the C&C Node unless you want to spam missile drones. I actually like the Bside unit as a place for Marker Drones.

How does shooting the Missile Drones work? Let's say I choose an initial target and my Markerlight Drones shoot at it, now what can my Missile Drones shoot at? Only the same target as their designated Broadside? The entire squad still gets rerolls though right since the Commander is attached? And if my commander doesn't shoot and I choose tank hunter everyone essentially get's rerolls also on their glance/pens, including the drones?

You choose a target for the unit. The Drones fire on this target. Models with Target Locks can fire at other targets. Drones do not benefit from target locks. It is best to think of them as members of a unit.

The more shots a unit has the more you can efficiently apply the buffs from the commander. HYMP Broadsides pack the most firepower in the codex, IMO.

Cool thanks guys! I do find that when I make my lists I also sometimes end up with spare points lol


Also what are your guys thought on something one of the more experienced tau player at my lfgs said. "Broadsides are better than riptides since they dish out lots more shots with no chance of hurting yourself." He's suggesting taking 9 broadsides as better...thoughts?

it....yeah its technically true but theres a mobility and survivability difference. Riptide with HBC doesnt notice the 36" because hes relentless, so he can move that ~8" to be able to hit everything and not get a penalty....broadsides wont do jack and might get picked off if you dont have terrain to hide them in on the way up there.

Ive had games where the terrain screwed my broadsides like that. Out of range unless i wanted to risk crossing this 10" gap of no terrain lol.....lascannons waiting for them to attempt it

Plus....thats 450USD of broadsides dude rofl

Hahahaha $450 worth of broadsides... Nuff said!

 syypher wrote:
$450 worth of broadsides!

Dont do it, your wallet has so much to live for.

Seriously, in my experience broadsides are only so-so. Good players mitigate them by counterdeployment/focussing them down first. While taking 9 of them might keep enough of them alive (with drones and a buffmander to tank) to dish out the hurt, it'll probably only take you so far, and you can still deploy against them with some armies (serpent spam, multiple iontides) and just outrange them. Its also a significant investment in a very predictable play style, gunline tau, which IMO was really good in 4th edition, but not so much now. In 6th edition you have to get places and stay there with really fragile models, and mobile units like kroot and crisis suits are good for that, but firewarriors arent so much. Same goes for contest/denial units, which is why the riptide at least to me is favorable to broadsides. A riptide can move/run/4d6 jump onto an objective turn 5, broadsides cant, and thats way more valuable in my eyes than static firesupport that hopes your opponent fails saves or runs away. I wont outright say broadsides are bad, clearly they have utility and alot of very successful armies run them. They just have weaknesses thats all, and once you understand those weaknesses you can just play around them.

I will say quad tide probably wont get as much play now. People are going to counter the living daylights out of it. But the core of my list was the ovesastar, and that'll probably stick around as its one of the most durable and range-effective units in the game. Unless they faq it out of existance, which would be a shame considering theres so many other crazy deathstars in 40k currently.