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Well, I guess this is one that just isn't meant for us.

so basically, dividing up each pledge from KS1, Reaper lost money on every pledge sent ROW?

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
See, I want that Dragon Turtle, but I don't want most of the other stuff in that random assortment.

Same here, for the same model!

Anyone know if we'll be able to buy single figs outside of the package deals during this Kickstarter?

Not a huge deal, as we can always just wait until whenever it becomes available via retail, down the road, but I'm curious!

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

Stretch goals seem like they are going to SLLLLOOOOOWWWW down at this point.

It was bound to 'slow' a bit, but the last 2 days on this one are going to be ridiculous!

And calling an additional 150k today slowing down is a bit nuts. We're only noticing because of the distance between goals. At this point every goal currently posted will be finished off by sometime friday (accounting for more drop off tomorrow). I'm honestly trying to only look at the actual kickstarter page once a day. Since until the last two days I don't see it moving to crazy. granted, they did manage to do a little under a third of what they did last time, and in under 48 hours.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 adhuin wrote:

On Bones 1 and Europe: Does anyone know a good online store that carries all / most of the Reapers bones line?
I'm interested in Giants and other big guys, but can't find an Euro-shop that carries them. :(

It's actually Free/Paid, Paid, Half-free, Paid...

The Option Expansion is just as important for some people as the regular base package. I know a few people who are skipping the regular $100 package and picking up the $50 instead and adding options on that. Those people would feel left out if the $50 option isn't fleshed out a bit more.

The other option of stuffing the Expansion option into the regular base line would mean more stuff in that package of course, but it would also mean that we would probably be looking at straight $250K stretch goals right now. Instead, they broke things up a bit in order to make each step a little smaller and shift funds around a bit in terms of the overall backing and pledges.

How about this:
http://www.shop.battlefield-berlin.de/index.php/katalog/showarticles/25138-1-bones.html

 lord_blackfang wrote:


I feel this is little misleading. US shipping was free last time too, while ROW backers paid $25. So we contributed a lot more into the shipping pot, too.

Pointing out that ROW paid $111,000 in shipping and cost Reaper $303,000 in shipping does not help the ROW cause.

 judgedoug wrote:
so basically, dividing up each pledge from KS1, Reaper lost money on every pledge sent ROW?

We don't know one way or the other, but obviously whoever is trying to smear ROW backers is doing a fine job.

Didn't know anyone is trying to "smear" ROW backers, I would have thought that some of the data provided by reaper might help ROW folks understand why they are paying actual shipping charges. Its a lot easier for reaper to eat (or build in) the US cost since shipping within the US is relatively cheap. Not sure how they would be able eat the cost for the ROW.

Is the issue at hand for the ROW folks that your paying the actual shipping vs a flat rate? Seems like actual shipping would be best as if it was flat rate then you would likely be paying more then your shipping could cost to cover off others

Its sad, i would love to join, but beetween the high shipping costs and my damaged wallet after deadzone, i will have to pass this up. Maybe i get a minimal pledge at the end, and add some dragons (small boxes, small shipping?).

But well, i have enough miniatures to paint and play for the next 10 years after Reaper and Deadzone KSs (and Warpath is coming soon ).

 ironicsilence wrote:
Didn't know anyone is trying to "smear" ROW backers, I would have thought that some of the data provided by reaper might help ROW folks understand why they are paying actual shipping charges. Its a lot easier for reaper to eat (or build in) the US cost since shipping within the US is relatively cheap. Not sure how they would be able eat the cost for the ROW.

Is the issue at hand for the ROW folks that your paying the actual shipping vs a flat rate? Seems like actual shipping would be best as if it was flat rate then you would likely be paying more then your shipping could cost to cover off others

That's not the issue at all, jeez. Of course we'd pay what it costs. But as it stands we pay more, because we pay US shipping (built into the base pledge) and full international shipping on top of that. If Reaper just confirmed that they'd drop our shipping cost by the $10 or so difference (guesstimated from Bones 1 data), I'd consider it perfectly fair.

so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?

I guess that also assumes that when Reaper comes out with ROW shipping pricing that it doesnt take into account whatever the amount in the base pledge is for US shipping.

I would be a little bothered if Reaper did include the cost of shipping in the price of the pledge because at the point US shipping is no longer free. Not to mention from a ROW stand point, not sure how taxes and custom fees really work, but you guys get taxed based on the value of the package? So if Reaper lists it at say 100USD, if that includes say 10USD to cover US shipping, then you could would also have to pay taxes on the money included for shipping. Which doesnt seem cool

Again seems like something for Reaper to add some clarity too

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
Didn't know anyone is trying to "smear" ROW backers, I would have thought that some of the data provided by reaper might help ROW folks understand why they are paying actual shipping charges. Its a lot easier for reaper to eat (or build in) the US cost since shipping within the US is relatively cheap. Not sure how they would be able eat the cost for the ROW.

Is the issue at hand for the ROW folks that your paying the actual shipping vs a flat rate? Seems like actual shipping would be best as if it was flat rate then you would likely be paying more then your shipping could cost to cover off others

That's not the issue at all, jeez. Of course we'd pay what it costs. But as it stands we pay more, because we pay US shipping (built into the base pledge) and full international shipping on top of that. If Reaper just confirmed that they'd drop our shipping cost by the $10 or so difference (guesstimated from Bones 1 data), I'd consider it perfectly fair.

That was the point I was originally making, which seems to have been missed by most people commenting about how RoW backers are being little whiners

I have no issue paying for shipping - I was pretty sure even before it shipped it would have cost Reaper way more to send out my Bones I than I paid as a RoW backer, however, It is a little bit galling to have US backers point and laugh and tell me I deserve to pay loads for shipping when my base pledge is paying for their free US shipping (and/or going towards Reaper's general KS profits), while I then foot the entire RoW shipping cost.

And let's face it, printing off a computer generated overseas customs form and sticking it on the side of the box isn't exactly a huge cost sink...

 ironicsilence wrote:
so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?

I guess that also assumes that when Reaper comes out with ROW shipping pricing that it doesnt take into account whatever the amount in the base pledge is for US shipping.

That's about it. They should just clarify and I'll either drop out (if ROW is actually subsidizing US shipping) or stay in (if not). Either way, I'll stop complaining.



So, having finally combined the two sets of numbers at our disposal, it looks to me that Reaper "earned" $35 less per pledge on average from ROW backers compared to US backers. This assumes all ROW backers paid the $25 shipping surcharge, it doesn't take into account "free" Canadian shipping that fell through.

We cannot know whether this was actually a loss or just less gain but it is a huge hit and I applaud Reaper for eating it. I think it would have been reasonable to ask ROW backers for extra money or offer a refund.

 ironicsilence wrote:
so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?

Erm... KS's rules say US projects must have free US shipping. Even if it didn't, any company offering free shipping has to get that money from somewhere. Reaper aren't going to take out a loan, or dip into their bank accounts to pay for it - they factor in that cost to the base price of their KS products... Just like any other company offering "free shipping".

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
See, I want that Dragon Turtle, but I don't want most of the other stuff in that random assortment. Especially that stone giant or whatever that skinny dude is.
The Nefsokar avatar or whatever is cool. Wanted to get one of those for a while.

Stretch goals seem like they are going to SLLLLOOOOOWWWW down at this point.

The dragon turtle is one of the only ones I really don't want from that expansion

Still holding out hope for a Sophie to be included in the KS at some point, the 2007 reapercon one is still doing rounds as one of my slaanesh princes.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?

Erm... KS's rules say US projects must have free US shipping. Even if it didn't, any company offering free shipping has to get that money from somewhere. Reaper aren't going to take out a loan, or dip into their bank accounts to pay for it - they factor in that cost to the base price of their KS products... Just like any other company offering "free shipping".

I didnt know KS says you have to have free US shipping

 SilverMK2 wrote:

It is a little bit galling to have US backers point and laugh and tell me I deserve to pay loads for shipping when my base pledge is paying for their free US shipping (and/or going towards Reaper's general KS profits), while I then foot the entire RoW shipping cost.

Show me, exactly, where this happened. Otherwise, drop the hyperbole.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

And let's face it, printing off a computer generated overseas customs form and sticking it on the side of the box isn't exactly a huge cost sink...

Because that is all that is involved in shipping a few thousand packages overseas, right?

ROW backers don't have any facts yet about shipping at all really. So, this is all, in fact, whinging. If Reaper comes out and says that your shipping is subsidizing mine, I'll be behind you 100% Until then this is all noise. Unfounded, unnecessary, noise.

~Eric

Edit: And just so we're clear, I think Reaper should absolutely be looking into a partner (several?) to help with the shipping mess. We just have no idea what is happening yet.

 ironicsilence wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?

Erm... KS's rules say US projects must have free US shipping. Even if it didn't, any company offering free shipping has to get that money from somewhere. Reaper aren't going to take out a loan, or dip into their bank accounts to pay for it - they factor in that cost to the base price of their KS products... Just like any other company offering "free shipping".

I didnt know KS says you have to have free US shipping

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/creator+questions#faq_41883

How do I charge shipping on my reward?

In general, the cost to mail your backers their rewards (postage, envelopes, etc.) should be taken into account when you set your goal and price your rewards.

Keep in mind that unless you specify otherwise, backers can pledge to your project from anywhere in the world. It’s always fun to have a backer from across the globe, but it can also mean paying for international postage to send rewards overseas.

If that’s something you’ve worked into your project’s budget, great. As you build your rewards, though, you’ll see that you have the option to charge an additional shipping fee to international backers. To do that, simply select “Shipping anywhere in the world,” when you add a reward, then, “Add fee.” The additional price will be included in the reward description, and international backers will be prompted to enter the additional amount to their pledge.

 ironicsilence wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?

Erm... KS's rules say US projects must have free US shipping. Even if it didn't, any company offering free shipping has to get that money from somewhere. Reaper aren't going to take out a loan, or dip into their bank accounts to pay for it - they factor in that cost to the base price of their KS products... Just like any other company offering "free shipping".

I didnt know KS says you have to have free US shipping

I have just double checked that, and it looks like I may be misinformed on that point.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/creator+questions#faq_41823

I could not see anything about requirements for free US postage in their FAQ.

Edit: Though as above, the implication is that US postage should be included in the backing cost.

 ironicsilence wrote:
Didn't know anyone is trying to "smear" ROW backers, I would have thought that some of the data provided by reaper might help ROW folks understand why they are paying actual shipping charges. Its a lot easier for reaper to eat (or build in) the US cost since shipping within the US is relatively cheap. Not sure how they would be able eat the cost for the ROW.

Is the issue at hand for the ROW folks that your paying the actual shipping vs a flat rate? Seems like actual shipping would be best as if it was flat rate then you would likely be paying more then your shipping could cost to cover off others

The costs keep adding up. For basic 100$ tier, I would add 80$ postage (reapers-estimation, not mine) + my local VAT of 24% (for both) = 220 dollars. Bit over Twice the amount US-customer will pay.

If this was mantic-kickstarter, Id pay 100$+15 dollar postage & that's it.

So it seems like someone really needs to post a comment to Reaper asking if the price of US shipping is built into the pledge or if they are eating the shipping. Till then its really all just talking in circles around ROW shipping

 adhuin wrote:


If this was mantic-kickstarter, Id pay 100$+15 dollar postage & that's it.

Mantic is UK-based.

nkelsch wrote:

 adhuin wrote:


If this was mantic-kickstarter, Id pay 100$+15 dollar postage & that's it.

Mantic is UK-based.

They had also US presence.
Their US customer payed same amount for postage as UK-natives. AND their RoTW customers (outside US) payed Flat 15$ postage. And that 15$ postage included 3 shipments. Winter, spring and now fall.

To be fair, Mantic isn't really a good comparison. But CMON is. They have an EU shipping hub and take care of all the customs/import hassles for you. and their KS can be fairly involved with many options (Relic Knights!) It can be done.

 Taarnak wrote:
Show me, exactly, where this happened. Otherwise, drop the hyperbole.

I don't particularly feel like going through and "naming and shaming" to be entirely honest with you. Though you could always have a look at your own reply to see how RoW backers are facing vitriol for daring to suggest that they would like more information on shipping costs and pointing out that they are, as far as we have the information, also paying in the built in "free US shipping fee" on top of any RoW shipping.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Because that is all that is involved in shipping a few thousand packages overseas, right?

Well, last time they also had to wait for a series of magic trucks to collect them too. But as far as I am aware that was the only "extra" work they had to do above and beyond posting within the US...

ROW backers don't have any facts yet about shipping at all really.

I don't think that is being debated, but thanks for stating it.

So, this is all, in fact, whinging.

Ah, I see, pointing out potential sources of injustice in how postage may be paid for is whinging...

If Reaper comes out and says that your shipping is subsidizing mine, I'll be behind you 100%

They more than likely won't be saying that. They more than likely will go down one of two route: RoW backers will pay full shipping costs (as seems to be their current design), or RoW backers will pay full shipping costs, minus some to be determined amount (ie the cost of postage to the US, minus any internal processing fee that everyone has built into the cost of their base pledge).

Until then this is all noise. Unfounded, unnecessary, noise.

So... stop mashing your keyboard and go read a book or something?

Edit: And just so we're clear, I think Reaper should absolutely be looking into a partner (several?) to help with the shipping mess. We just have no idea what is happening yet.

It would be nice if they got an EU distributor at least, but that is added cost and effort which, depending on the number of backers in some regions, may cost them (and thus us) as much as just sending things out and charging the appropriate postage.

thats a result of the US postal service being in HUGE amounts of debt. USPS shipping to just about anywhere outside the US went up A LOT last year. I have zero doubt that its prolly 2 to 3 times cheaper to ship something from the UK to the US then it is to go US to UK

I'm just going to post this here to add my views. I'm not moaning as I know what's in store when I pledge on a US project (which is why I don't really back them anymore, I really wanted cthulhu wars but whoaa not with that postage lol!)

Just to repeat I'm not moaning I was actually very pleased with my shipping and then customs from Bones1. Also I think we should wait untill they actually post ROW shipping costes (unless they have already? ).

overtyrant wrote:

550320 6019902 8a7f3b7ad543796c048e42ae9a5ed546.jpg wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
This is the thing I don't get (not trying to moan just curious). So I'm a U.S backer and I pledge for the game if you live in the U.S you don't pay shipping because its included the pledge. I then pledge for the same thing as an international backer I pay the same amount plus shipping. This feels like non U.S backers are paying for there shipping as well as there own. Wouldn't it make more sense to lower the international shipping by $X and charge $X for U.S backers for shipping or lower the pledge by $X and charge U.S backers $X for shipping.

The thing is though, a parcel can cost $5 to ship from Florida to California, but the same thing costs $60 to ship to the UK.

Then lower the pledge by $5.00 and charge $5.00 shipping for U.S backers. Or lower international shipping by $5.00 and charge $5.00 for U.S backers (though it would still be to expensive). It's more of a visual thing for me (I know im nitpicking now lol) I don't like to pay for other peoples shipping. I hope you can resolve this by being able to ship from within the E.U as the cost would come down for shipping then and we would not worry about customs (out of you control of course).

(This is my main reason why I don't back K.S projects from the U.S anymore that can't ship from the E.U)

Something worth noting is that by not including S&H up front, there are a couple of effects;

1) Shipping isn't 'artificially inflating' the current amount backed. A lot of KS's with hundreds or thousands of international backers might see a 6 figure bump in their 'funding' total, whereas this one is (at least currently) pure items, aside from possibly a few people who decided to hedge a bit of cash towards S&H or other costs ahead of time.

2) If it's not incorporated until the campaign ends (as in, people don't have to pay (or even know for sure what they're paying until it ends) until the Pledge Manager goes up, they don't get dinged by KS/Amazon taking about 10% as their cut. Those savings alone could be *massive*.

Note that I'm not trying to vilify anyone. I'm merely pointing something out. The latter of which could be a clever way to avoid getting dinged by the system.

 adhuin wrote:
The costs keep adding up. For basic 100$ tier, I would add 80$ postage (reapers-estimation, not mine) + my local VAT of 24% (for both) = 220 dollars. Bit over Twice the amount US-customer will pay.

Yeah, it isn't fun when you add in shipping

I was thinking originally I might put down $200 in items, but I don't really want to have to pay $40 in VAT, plus $16 customs charge, plus whatever postage ends up being

For Bones I, the value of the shipment was just set at $100, regardless of how many extras you put down, which meant a maximum VAT charge of only $20, plus $16 customs charge, plus $25 shipping charge, which was much nicer, especially if shipping really is going to be about $80 on top...

 ironicsilence wrote:
So it seems like someone really needs to post a comment to Reaper asking if the price of US shipping is built into the pledge or if they are eating the shipping. Till then its really all just talking in circles around ROW shipping

That sounds like a really good idea.

Maybe some non-USA based user could do that, so we don't have to run in too many circles in here?

Thanks!