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Their total traffic is only going down by a few percentage points per year, but the overall pie is growing by about 15-20% per year leading to quite a decrease overall relative to the market.

 cincydooley wrote:


GW traffic is decreasing? Really? Aside from KS Update threads and Politics threads, it seems like the GW stuff gets the most reads at a casual notice. How much of a decrease are we talking about?

He's referring to the Google search term of "Warhammer 40k" whose stats are displayed in the link Lego provided.

I've said this before but;
1) Maybe its time independents banded together and told them unless there is a dramatic rethink in their trade policies we won't carry your products", Oh wait, we're still making money!
2) There are plenty of alternative games/miniature systems that with a little more support from independents could be more profitable? Perhaps help raise their profile?
3) GW coudln't survive without the independents;there is your power, I suggest you use it.
4) GW not keen on advertising? Fine. Advertise other systems instead of 'advance order' emails to customers telling them to get their order in for the latest GW releases. Oh wait, we still make money from GW.
A bit cynical I know but there have been plenty of independents moaning about the latest nonsense from GW yet they are quite happy to accept it because they know the stuff will sell; the only way anything is going to change is if the independents wish it. Principals or cash,ladies and gentlemen?
P.s. Sooner or later I honestly think GW will be coming after Dakka; afterall Dakka doesn't follow the party line does it? LONG MAY IT CONTINUE!

 legoburner wrote:
Dakka would not even sweat if all GW selling advertisers disappeared so you dont have to worry about Dakka, between google ads, DCMs and indie gaming companies we are well covered to the point of being able to meet expenses. We are US based (much stronger freedom of speech rules), have plenty of legal options including pro-bono if it came down to it and are structured in a way that will allow us to avoid any repercussions of direct action if it came down to it. Saying that, we always action C&Ds from GW and try to obey the spirit of the rules they set because there are other sites who are worried about being rumour sites whereas we just want a place for people to enjoy their hobby. As such, we've always had a respectable relationship with GW and dont feel that we have anything to fear. If GW want to kill online interest in their products then we are happy to let them as there are plenty of other good companies out there making good products that we equally enjoy as part of the hobby. Dakka's traffic continues to increase despite the GW slice of the traffic pie decreasing.

That's great to hear about dakka and it's relative independence from the market leader. I can't say I'm surprised about the GW slice of the pie decreasing; they lost my miniscule portion of a single percentage point two years ago and I haven't regretted it since. I still play their games as my go-to backup game system when I can't find an opponent of what I actually want to play but I don't new models anymore. The vast majority of my 40k spending in the sig is from buying the recent rapid fire new codex books for previously somewhat neglected armies, main rule book, and previously FFG Deathwatch books (which I sold off since).

I hope BOW will continue their 40K coverage for their fans/subscribers that want it but I personally go to their channel to get the scoop for other smaller games (like Infinity, Mercs, etc). I hope the relative proportion of those indie games outside of the "Big 2" (warhammer, warmahordes) increases.

Why do GW want to destroy their own fanbase's anticipation for new products?

 Imposter101 wrote:
Why do GW want to destroy their own fanbase's anticipation for new products?

They must believe it has no negative impact, and preventing 3rd parties from making alternative models by not seeing designs until GW already has models on the market is their goal.

I mean honestly, they have trained us to basically be so starved for rumors, it actually makes us report them even more and faster, and by time everyone sees them we are almost a week or two from when we can actually buy them, which taps in to impulse buys and prevents people from rationalizing purchases or putting off purchases for a model which might come 6 months from now.

If they feel it works, then why should they stop? It has been a while they have been locking down previews and doing the 'your eyes to our shelves in 2 weeks' model and it doesn't seem to be hurting them to the point that they have stopped. If Anything, it seems to have helped, at least at the local GW store.

If you don't like it, don't buy from them. If you are a FLGS who doesn't like it, don't sell their products. If you don't like getting C&Ds, then don't report or advertise their products.

nkelsch wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:
Why do GW want to destroy their own fanbase's anticipation for new products?

They must believe it has no negative impact, and preventing 3rd parties from making alternative models by not seeing designs until GW already has models on the market is their goal.

I mean honestly, they have trained us to basically be so starved for rumors, it actually makes us report them even more and faster, and by time everyone sees them we are almost a week or two from when we can actually buy them, which taps in to impulse buys and prevents people from rationalizing purchases or putting off purchases for a model which might come 6 months from now.

If they feel it works, then why should they stop? It has been a while they have been locking down previews and doing the 'your eyes to our shelves in 2 weeks' model and it doesn't seem to be hurting them to the point that they have stopped. If Anything, it seems to have helped, at least at the local GW store.

If you don't like it, don't buy from them. If you are a FLGS who doesn't like it, don't sell their products. If you don't like getting C&Ds, then don't report or advertise their products.

I beat my wife all the time but she keeps coming back to me, I must be doing something right. Oh, I also have a rock that keeps tigers away, I mean, I don't see any tigers around do you?

 Crablezworth wrote:


I beat my wife all the time but she keeps coming back to me, I must be doing something right. Oh, I also have a rock that keeps tigers away, I mean, I don't see any tigers around do you?

That is nice and all, but GW has a metric that is based upon sales... not intangibles like shooing tigers and wife-love.

Boils down to if they are still selling product to the levels they expect, then why stop? It is their product and their company, if you feel they are losing sales and could be 'MORE' successful' without these polices, then you can run your own company on your own business model and make your own money. Armchair businessmen trying to make absolute statements on how companies should risk their money and business with no risk to them is pointless, especially when they lack the data to make those calls.

The only reason people are upset is because they are addicted to GW and will continue to hand over their money hand over fist to them. And for those who are like 'they are driving me to china' think about it... You are so addicted, that you are driven to break the law to obtain GW's product because you simply can't go without.

If you don't like it... buy something else, Sell something else, report on something else.

nkelsch wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:


I beat my wife all the time but she keeps coming back to me, I must be doing something right. Oh, I also have a rock that keeps tigers away, I mean, I don't see any tigers around do you?

That is nice and all, but GW has a metric that is based upon sales... not intangibles like shooing tigers and wife-love.

Boils down to if they are still selling product to the levels they expect, then why stop? It is their product and their company, if you feel they are losing sales and could be 'MORE' successful' without these polices, then you can run your own company on your own business model and make your own money. Armchair businessmen trying to make absolute statements on how companies should risk their money and business with no risk to them is pointless, especially when they lack the data to make those calls.

The only reason people are upset is because they are addicted to GW and will continue to hand over their money hand over fist to them. And for those who are like 'they are driving me to china' think about it... You are so addicted, that you are driven to break the law to obtain GW's product because you simply can't go without.

If you don't like it... buy something else, Sell something else, report on something else.

I would love to hear you in a WW2 war room "who are we to say hitler's a bad dude? Look at how well he's doing, he's got a sweet army and a lot of loyal people behind him, I mean who are we to judge? He seems like a real up and comer"

 Crablezworth wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:


I beat my wife all the time but she keeps coming back to me, I must be doing something right. Oh, I also have a rock that keeps tigers away, I mean, I don't see any tigers around do you?

That is nice and all, but GW has a metric that is based upon sales... not intangibles like shooing tigers and wife-love.

Boils down to if they are still selling product to the levels they expect, then why stop? It is their product and their company, if you feel they are losing sales and could be 'MORE' successful' without these polices, then you can run your own company on your own business model and make your own money. Armchair businessmen trying to make absolute statements on how companies should risk their money and business with no risk to them is pointless, especially when they lack the data to make those calls.

The only reason people are upset is because they are addicted to GW and will continue to hand over their money hand over fist to them. And for those who are like 'they are driving me to china' think about it... You are so addicted, that you are driven to break the law to obtain GW's product because you simply can't go without.

If you don't like it... buy something else, Sell something else, report on something else.

I would love to hear you in a WW2 war room "who are we to say hitler's a bad dude? Look at how well he's doing, he's got a sweet army and a lot of loyal people behind him, I mean who are we to judge? He seems like a real up and comer"

Congrats on worthlessing Godwinning a thread. You really contribute well with that.

A business has every choice to run itself into the ground or have policies someone doesn't like if they feel it makes them successful. They are not anywhere close to genociding millions of people by not telling you 6 months in advanced about a new dark elder transport.

And relying on Impulse buying habits is a valid business model which is one of the 'we not sharing yet... oh wait here it is!, BUY BUYBUY!' things they are doing.

That wasn't godwinning. Where exactly did he compare you to Hitler or the Nazis?

 Grimtuff wrote:
That wasn't godwinning. Where exactly did he compare you to Hitler or the Nazis?

Running a successful or unsuccessful business can hardly be compared to a world leader declaring war on other countries and committing genocide against millions of people.

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

So he compared not getting upset over a company possibly mismanaging its marketing which may or may not be profitable or successful to supporting Nazi Germany and Genocide which is absurd and a perfect example of Godwin's law.

So how long before Dakka recieves a GW Legal letter instructing you to close down any thread giving GW information before its officially released?

Why? Because that's where this is heading.

nkelsch wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
That wasn't godwinning. Where exactly did he compare you to Hitler or the Nazis?

Running a successful or unsuccessful business can hardly be compared to a world leader declaring war on other countries and committing genocide against millions of people.

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

So he compared not getting upset over a company possibly mismanaging its marketing which may or may not be profitable or successful to supporting Nazi Germany and Genocide which is absurd and a perfect example of Godwin's law.

Actually, I'd say he was comparing you to Neville Chamberlain, but meh....

 azreal13 wrote:


Actually, I'd say he was comparing you to Neville Chamberlain, but meh....

Yes, it is perfectly reasonable that people would feel exactly the same about an inconsequential business marketing campaigns as he would in regards to seeing a country and its leader commit genocide and kill millions. They have so much in common in seriousness and degree of scope. By doing so you either drastically over justify how serious buying toy miniatures are or trivialize mass murder. Valid comparions because GW's marketing and trade partner rules are exactly like Genocide.

This thread has gone stupid...

nkelsch wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


Actually, I'd say he was comparing you to Neville Chamberlain, but meh....

Yes, it is perfectly reasonable that people would feel exactly the same about an inconsequential business marketing campaigns as he would in regards to seeing a country and its leader commit genocide and kill millions. They have so much in common in seriousness and degree of scope. By doing so you either drastically over justify how serious buying toy miniatures are or trivialize mass murder. Valid comparions because GW's marketing and trade partner rules are exactly like Genocide.

If you want to go hyperbolic speed on it, yes, you could say that.

I'm just saying that comparing your post to a historical figure who also completely failed to comprehend the ramifications of another parties actions is, at least, on the same curve.

nkelsch wrote:

. At least when GW does release a product and announce it, all you really need to assure your customers is 'you carry that product, please buy from me.'

...if GW actually let me stock that product, and if they actually send me any for the release.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipstream wrote:

A bit cynical I know but there have been plenty of independents moaning about the latest nonsense from GW yet they are quite happy to accept it because they know the stuff will sell; ...

Accepting GW's ridiculous trade policies because you need to pay the rent does not automatically mean being happy about it.

Imposter101 wrote:Why do GW want to destroy their own fanbase's anticipation for new products?

GW tradition

Slipstream wrote:A bit cynical I know but there have been plenty of independents moaning about the latest nonsense from GW yet they are quite happy to accept it because they know the stuff will sell

It is a fact that GW sells less and less products (barely keeping revenue on inflation level) and that other companies sell more and more. GW is not able or willing to discuss anything, so independents follow their plan B and prepare for GW's decline.

 insaniak wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

. At least when GW does release a product and announce it, all you really need to assure your customers is 'you carry that product, please buy from me.'

...if GW actually let me stock that product, and if they actually send me any for the release.

Here in Japan some of the player crowd at Nagoya had some trouble with the local independent shop before the summer when suddenly all the orders were delayed. After some miscommunication issues we found out that he had been unable to fulfill the orders because GW did no longer considered him a partner (or whatever term they use here) and had cut his ability to order at a discount. Suffice to say that he returned the money but his credibility took a hit and people were not happy.

Considering that outside Tokyo there are no GW stores and that if this trend continues the few independents will drop GW at this rate, how does GW plan to keep their games alive in Japan with 0% advertising and a hostile veteran player base?

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

. At least when GW does release a product and announce it, all you really need to assure your customers is 'you carry that product, please buy from me.'

...if GW actually let me stock that product, and if they actually send me any for the release.

Here in Japan some of the player crowd at Nagoya had some trouble with the local independent shop before the summer when suddenly all the orders were delayed. After some miscommunication issues we found out that he had been unable to fulfill the orders because GW did no longer considered him a partner (or whatever term they use here) and had cut his ability to order at a discount. Suffice to say that he returned the money but his credibility took a hit and people were not happy.

Considering that outside Tokyo there are no GW stores and that if this trend continues the few independents will drop GW at this rate, how does GW plan to keep their games alive in Japan with 0% advertising and a hostile veteran player base?

M.

The same way they expect to keep their games alive everywhere else. They don't see a problem with anything they are doing.

 Kelly502 wrote:
Ok, folk can bash GW but I can't say I'm getting rid of some stuff that's worthless to me? Alrighty then.. Call me a troll and give me a bridge.

In the context in which you used it, you're clearly trolling. The eyelid batting doesn't change anything.

 Soteks Prophet wrote:
GW's new release policy:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

it's like Japanese porn.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Essentially GW wishes all the coverage about them to pass through them and nobody else, they want absolute control on how they might get depicted and they do not want their products showcased among somebody else.

The pig picture so frequently show here must be depicted as something worth paying money for, the systems must be depicted as the best thing one can hope to game with and the fluff the best it was ever written.

They do not want competition simple as that and somehow in their minds if they manage to have all other sites, blogs, news outlets that may not show them in the brightest of all colours or they will definitely not show them among other products die in the next minute it will all be better for them.

That's not true. Look at what the majority of these "issues" were about--things being leaked. There is a very big difference between "You can't talk about our stuff!" and "Stop revealing releases before we do".

Nah, the earlier GW letters wanted BOW to remove any video/image from their site containing any GW works*, and they asked them not to share an official GW video on youtube. They want BOW to shut down as they advertise other games

*Which is essentially a shutdown. There's probably a GW box in the background of every video on the site, and that's a lot of editing or removable.

That's not unreasonable though. Generally if you're running a website you don't simply embed someone else's material, you rehost it.

No, that would then be a copyright issue. In this case, BOW essentially added an official GW video to BOW's playlist, on the same host, using functionality provided by the host, in accordance with the terms of the host. It's almost like GW asked BOW not to link to the video.

 d-usa wrote:
This thread has gone stupid...

Quoted for truth

 Bull0 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
This thread has gone stupid...

Quoted for truth

I feel a bit sorry for starting it. Not sure giving the issue any more attention is doing the community any favors.

BOW as a news broadcaster and Wayland as one of the biggest UK traders is a very powerful combination because they can determine trends... I believe that is the main reason they got sniped by GW legal.

Maybe CMON is next.

We as hobby fans may find this too harsh and even bullying but thats how a certain type of company conducts business.

 NAVARRO wrote:
We as hobby fans may find this too harsh and even bullying but thats how a certain type of company conducts business.

Luckily those of us who don't like it can simply not buy from a company like that

 jonolikespie wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
We as hobby fans may find this too harsh and even bullying but thats how a certain type of company conducts business.

Luckily those of us who don't like it can simply not buy from a company like that

Well that's just shocking! Is this a new outcome? You're telling me you can simply choose not to buy from a company you don't like??!?

Mind. Blown.

I am more worried on the possible future implications in the industry, than if GW is driving itself to extinction.

They have proven themselves legally trigger happy against everybody and without legal standing, just using their bulk to eliminate any opposition they perceive.

Now they use any trick they can find including contracts to enforce their way.

BOW is not admitting really doing something wrong, his words are carefully chosen to not burn bridges and frankly GWs change of trading terms proves they could not find them doing anything wrong to sue them over, if they could they would.

The question is what next, at what point their paranoia, cause I do not think this is sane will move to a much more disruptive stage.