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 reds8n wrote:

Games Workshop: Digital Editions
Hey Everyone,
We’ve just hit 4000 likes (wahooo!)
As a thanks to you all for signing up, here is the cover of the next supplement for Codex: Space Marines – Clan Raukaan, the Iron Hands 3rd Company (we love 3rd companies, three’ s company after all.)

Direct your thanks towards ‘Ian Miller’ who was the 4,000th like and earned you all this cool preview.

When we get to 5,000 we’ll give you clue as to what at the next digital exclusive codex is going to be, so if you want to find that out, you should probably go ahead and share this picture.

- Eddie

Well, late is better than never to preview it . Interesting...

2x210 wrote:
Ohh cool another loyalist supplement, I'm so glad they get two unique supplements before Chaos gets something other than "Black Legion". I mean I sure don't want to have better rules for Night Lords or Word Bearers or any of the 4 Cult Legions.

Good call GW

Note the sarcasm

Except that almost none of those original legions are Legions anymore.. so there is no need for a book. During the scouring and the 10k years in between almost all of them devolved into warbands except really the Word Bearers.

You can get the history of the legions by reading the horus heresy books as their history pretty much ended after that.

I just started playing Iron Hands without any knowledge of this, I am super pumped now.

YEEEEEEEEESS, I'm SO EXCITED NOW. I was about to ask if they were going to release any teasers for the next supplement in the hopes that they'd mention the IH Supplement on their FB page yesterday , but looks like I didn't need to.

Whoa, whoa, 2 positive posts about GW in a row? Simmer down, Dakka

(Actually, it's nice to see people enthusiastic about a release, and GW did officially preview this one themselves... so, good show!)

Digital Editions is doing a really great job so far. They're doing previews and marketing. I only hope main GW learns from this.

TiamatRoar wrote:

2x210 wrote:
Ohh cool another loyalist supplement, I'm so glad they get two unique supplements before Chaos gets something other than "Black Legion". I mean I sure don't want to have better rules for Night Lords or Word Bearers or any of the 4 Cult Legions.

Good call GW

Note the sarcasm

Chaos Space Marines should be the same. Should there be a Word Bearers supplement? NO! There should be a "Third Brotherhood" supplement, because Word Bearers should already be represented in the main codex using Legion Tactics: Word Bearers, and a supplement should instead focus on a subset of them.

If the Space Marines get a big huge enough codex that it represents their chapters, and thus their supplements involve subsets of those chapters, then Chaos Marines should get the same. Codex: Chaos Marines should be able to represent all Chaos Marine warbands with that same level of detail ("Chapter Tactics". Perhaps renamed to Legion Tactics? Whatever) and their supplements too should involve subsets/warbands of those legions/chapters.

It'll never happen (at least until 7th Edition), but we can dream, right?

stop right now, you are building up hope in my heart and i know that GW will never make decent fluffy rules for chaos in the next 38,000 years

 Kirasu wrote:

2x210 wrote:
Ohh cool another loyalist supplement, I'm so glad they get two unique supplements before Chaos gets something other than "Black Legion". I mean I sure don't want to have better rules for Night Lords or Word Bearers or any of the 4 Cult Legions.

Good call GW

Note the sarcasm

Except that almost none of those original legions are Legions anymore.. so there is no need for a book. During the scouring and the 10k years in between almost all of them devolved into warbands except really the Word Bearers.

You can get the history of the legions by reading the horus heresy books as their history pretty much ended after that.

This argument is weak, old, and deserves to die a painful death. It's irrelevant at best, and honestly disrespectful toward Chaos Marine players who have been saddled with bland, insipid dexes for many years while loyal chapters are showered with rules and models.

Why? Allow me to rant:

The traitor legions did mostly break up into warbands, to a greater or lesser extent depending on the legion. And the Word Bearers are the most unified of the traitor legions, still operating as a basically intact legion. Congrats, you got that correct. But you know who else also split up their legion organization? All the loyalist legions (minus the Space Wolves). In fact, in many cases, there are fragments of traitor legions still operating in formations as large as or larger than any codex chapter. Take for instance the Iron Warriors, who retain a great degree of cohesion and still nominally operate as Grand Companies, similar in size to loyalist chapters. Or Typhus's Plague Fleet, which rivals the fleet of any individual codex chapter. Even the freakin' Alpha Legion still coordinate among their independent cells scattered across the galaxy.

So while it's true the traitor legions mostly don't operate as unified organizations tens of thousands of marines strong, it's also true that no one does anymore, except possibly the Black Templars. But even the traitors who did scatter still fight as warbands whose sizes easily range from dozens of marines to many hundreds. And those warbands are sometimes comprised mostly, or entirely, of marines from a single traitor legion. Even the most completely shattered legions, like the World Eaters, probably still have some warbands kicking around comprising a few dozen World Eaters and no one else.

Incidentally, we play a game called Warhammer 40,000 where you're not likely to have more than a few dozen models on the table at once. So when my army is a few dozen Night Lords, and yours is a few dozen Blood Angels, why does your army deserve an entire codex, while mine gets a few pages of fluff and not a single rule or special character? Heck, there are only a few hundred Blood Angels left at this point, and they don't even diverge from the Codex Astartes as much as the Black Templars. Why not just roll them into Codex: Space Marines and give them a Chapter Trait? They're basically a warband leftover from the splitting of the loyalist legions after the scouring.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Don't condescendingly tell someone to go read the Horus Heresy books to learn about why their own army doesn't deserve rules when you seem to have a poor grasp on the fluff yourself (and appear to play an army that barely needs its own codex anyway).

Well, someone just got pimp slapped.

I agree whole heartedly.

To be fair, isn't every Blood Angel army just discretely playing Fire Hawks now?

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
To be fair, isn't every Blood Angel army just discretely playing Fire Hawks now?

Yes...

 Happygrunt wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
To be fair, isn't every Blood Angel army just discretely playing Fire Hawks now?

Yes...

Lol

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

2x210 wrote:
Ohh cool another loyalist supplement, I'm so glad they get two unique supplements before Chaos gets something other than "Black Legion". I mean I sure don't want to have better rules for Night Lords or Word Bearers or any of the 4 Cult Legions.

Good call GW

Note the sarcasm

Except that almost none of those original legions are Legions anymore.. so there is no need for a book. During the scouring and the 10k years in between almost all of them devolved into warbands except really the Word Bearers.

You can get the history of the legions by reading the horus heresy books as their history pretty much ended after that.

This argument is weak, old, and deserves to die a painful death. It's irrelevant at best, and honestly disrespectful toward Chaos Marine players who have been saddled with bland, insipid dexes for many years while loyal chapters are showered with rules and models.

Why? Allow me to rant:

The traitor legions did mostly break up into warbands, to a greater or lesser extent depending on the legion. And the Word Bearers are the most unified of the traitor legions, still operating as a basically intact legion. Congrats, you got that correct. But you know who else also split up their legion organization? All the loyalist legions (minus the Space Wolves). In fact, in many cases, there are fragments of traitor legions still operating in formations as large as or larger than any codex chapter. Take for instance the Iron Warriors, who retain a great degree of cohesion and still nominally operate as Grand Companies, similar in size to loyalist chapters. Or Typhus's Plague Fleet, which rivals the fleet of any individual codex chapter. Even the freakin' Alpha Legion still coordinate among their independent cells scattered across the galaxy.

So while it's true the traitor legions mostly don't operate as unified organizations tens of thousands of marines strong, it's also true that no one does anymore, except possibly the Black Templars. But even the traitors who did scatter still fight as warbands whose sizes easily range from dozens of marines to many hundreds. And those warbands are sometimes comprised mostly, or entirely, of marines from a single traitor legion. Even the most completely shattered legions, like the World Eaters, probably still have some warbands kicking around comprising a few dozen World Eaters and no one else.

Incidentally, we play a game called Warhammer 40,000 where you're not likely to have more than a few dozen models on the table at once. So when my army is a few dozen Night Lords, and yours is a few dozen Blood Angels, why does your army deserve an entire codex, while mine gets a few pages of fluff and not a single rule or special character? Heck, there are only a few hundred Blood Angels left at this point, and they don't even diverge from the Codex Astartes as much as the Black Templars. Why not just roll them into Codex: Space Marines and give them a Chapter Trait? They're basically a warband leftover from the splitting of the loyalist legions after the scouring.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Don't condescendingly tell someone to go read the Horus Heresy books to learn about why their own army doesn't deserve rules when you seem to have a poor grasp on the fluff yourself (and appear to play an army that barely needs its own codex anyway).

Exalted, just because it's so true.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

2x210 wrote:
Ohh cool another loyalist supplement, I'm so glad they get two unique supplements before Chaos gets something other than "Black Legion". I mean I sure don't want to have better rules for Night Lords or Word Bearers or any of the 4 Cult Legions.

Good call GW

Note the sarcasm

Except that almost none of those original legions are Legions anymore.. so there is no need for a book. During the scouring and the 10k years in between almost all of them devolved into warbands except really the Word Bearers.

You can get the history of the legions by reading the horus heresy books as their history pretty much ended after that.

This argument is weak, old, and deserves to die a painful death. It's irrelevant at best, and honestly disrespectful toward Chaos Marine players who have been saddled with bland, insipid dexes for many years while loyal chapters are showered with rules and models.

Why? Allow me to rant:

The traitor legions did mostly break up into warbands, to a greater or lesser extent depending on the legion. And the Word Bearers are the most unified of the traitor legions, still operating as a basically intact legion. Congrats, you got that correct. But you know who else also split up their legion organization? All the loyalist legions (minus the Space Wolves). In fact, in many cases, there are fragments of traitor legions still operating in formations as large as or larger than any codex chapter. Take for instance the Iron Warriors, who retain a great degree of cohesion and still nominally operate as Grand Companies, similar in size to loyalist chapters. Or Typhus's Plague Fleet, which rivals the fleet of any individual codex chapter. Even the freakin' Alpha Legion still coordinate among their independent cells scattered across the galaxy.

So while it's true the traitor legions mostly don't operate as unified organizations tens of thousands of marines strong, it's also true that no one does anymore, except possibly the Black Templars. But even the traitors who did scatter still fight as warbands whose sizes easily range from dozens of marines to many hundreds. And those warbands are sometimes comprised mostly, or entirely, of marines from a single traitor legion. Even the most completely shattered legions, like the World Eaters, probably still have some warbands kicking around comprising a few dozen World Eaters and no one else.

Incidentally, we play a game called Warhammer 40,000 where you're not likely to have more than a few dozen models on the table at once. So when my army is a few dozen Night Lords, and yours is a few dozen Blood Angels, why does your army deserve an entire codex, while mine gets a few pages of fluff and not a single rule or special character? Heck, there are only a few hundred Blood Angels left at this point, and they don't even diverge from the Codex Astartes as much as the Black Templars. Why not just roll them into Codex: Space Marines and give them a Chapter Trait? They're basically a warband leftover from the splitting of the loyalist legions after the scouring.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Don't condescendingly tell someone to go read the Horus Heresy books to learn about why their own army doesn't deserve rules when you seem to have a poor grasp on the fluff yourself (and appear to play an army that barely needs its own codex anyway).

This is one of the best posts I have read in a long time. The Chaos Gods have exalted you.

Here's to hoping they give Bloody Magpi...I mean Blood Ravens some love if they do the 3rd company like the other two supplements (IF and IH) I would finally get a BR SC (Gab. Angel.)! Besides, the Tartarus would seem like the campaign to focus on, since it is pivotal in the BRs and Gabriel's history.

 Kirasu wrote:
Except that almost none of those original legions are Legions anymore.. so there is no need for a book.

So a single company of a single Chapter can get special rules to show how different it is, yet because Chaos Marines don't hang around in massive 10,000+ strong formations of Marines any more there's no reason to have rules to show the differences between an Iron Warrior and a Night Lord?

Nope.

Nope. Nope. Nope.


Chaos should have got the exact same treatment that Marines are getting now. A Chapter Tactics equivalent that provides the basic broad strokes of what being part of that Legion is like, and how it affects them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Except that almost none of those original legions are Legions anymore.. so there is no need for a book.

So a single company of a single Chapter can get special rules to show how different it is, yet because Chaos Marines don't hang around in massive 10,000+ strong formations of Marines any more there's no reason to have rules to show the differences between an Iron Warrior and a Night Lord?

Nope.

Nope. Nope. Nope.


Chaos should have got the exact same treatment that Marines are getting now. A Chapter Tactics equivalent that provides the basic broad strokes of what being part of that Legion is like, and how it affects them.

GW's red headed step children Ever since CSM 3.5 it's been codex black legion

Unless this is somehow Codex: Iron Legion and not Iron Hands, could we leave the CSM out of it? Some of us really want to know about what the Iron Hands are getting.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Except that almost none of those original legions are Legions anymore.. so there is no need for a book.

So a single company of a single Chapter can get special rules to show how different it is, yet because Chaos Marines don't hang around in massive 10,000+ strong formations of Marines any more there's no reason to have rules to show the differences between an Iron Warrior and a Night Lord?

Nope.

Nope. Nope. Nope.


Chaos should have got the exact same treatment that Marines are getting now. A Chapter Tactics equivalent that provides the basic broad strokes of what being part of that Legion is like, and how it affects them.

Chaos would get the same treatment if Chaos sold like marines do. Also, more optimistically, the Space Marine regimental tactics (or whatever they are) could be a new blueprint for future codexes - rumour has it that the Guard will be getting something similar. If that's the case then it's not Chaos being shafted, they were just in the wrong place in the production queue.

Yep.

Sounds they were in the wrong place in the production queue, which is actually just the right place to get shafted.

Seriously, this is what CSM should have done. I mean, they have actual blurbs about each Legion in the codex already, how hard would it have to added a couple rules at the end of each blurb? (answer: not hard) We have just as many reasons to get what the loyalist maweens got, but instead we get another, "Oh crap, this project is due tomorrow morning," codex and some new, questionably uselful, models and told we just paydirt.

I love how fast these supplemental codex books are coming out. I just wonder what the game, or the tournament game to be more specific, will look like in a year or two when the list of available armies has doubled. I guess a viable way to balance things is just to cause a complete anarchy of choice. I dig it.

It is now released.

Anybody pick this up? I'm interested in what changes they made

I made a thread about it here.

Thank you sir

My pleasure. I had it downloaded before 5:01pm had passed and immediately started reading it.

And surprise surprise the game mechanics are a mixed bag.

1. You can take Dreadnoughts as Heavy Support.
2. You can take a crapload of Techmarines (2 TMs per HQ choice, or 3 if you have a Master of the Forge). These don't take up a Force Org slot.
3. New relics.
4. New warlord traits are ok.
1. Warlord gets Blessing of the Omnissiah. If already has it he can re-roll repair attempts.
2. Fearless
3. Warlord (only) gets +1 on FnP rolls.
4. Warlord and unit can auto fail Morale checks.
5. Warlord and Raukaan units in 12" get Crusader.
6. Warlord and Raukaan unit he is with can re-roll To Hit rolls of 1 in shooting.
5. Artifacts seem really good on a first look. Particularly the Ironstone which means tanks and walkers in 6" It Will Not Die on a 4+, and on a 6 it also repairs Weapon Destroyed or Immobilized (!). MIGHT make taking those Dreadnoughts useful.

Don't forget about most OP artefact ever:

The Gorgon's Chain

It gives character 3++ Inv, +1 to his FNP rolls and Eternal Warrior. The more wounds character suffers the less bonus he gets:
If he lost 1W, he no longer has +1to FNP, 2W will cost him the Eternall Warrior and 3rd W will eventually lower this Inv to 4++

Bear in mind that with Warlord Traits there is a 1 in 6 chance to get another +1 FnP

Now if we combine that with Chapter Master on Bike and in Relic Armour we get:

T5, 4W, 2+/3++, 5+ FnP(or 4+ if lucky), It Will Not Die = OMFG!

To give him a suitable weapon, let's grab Axe of Medusa: +2S AP2 Master-Crafted.
Here's a twist, attacks that will get roll of 6 for to-wound are resolved as +4S

Evil I tell ya.

It looks like every relic is pretty usable, with some being very very good. I don't think we've seen that since the Iyanden supplement.

 Herr Dexter wrote:
Don't forget about most OP artefact ever:

The Gorgon's Chain

It gives character 3++ Inv, +1 to his FNP rolls and Eternal Warrior. The more wounds character suffers the less bonus he gets:
If he lost 1W, he no longer has +1to FNP, 2W will cost him the Eternall Warrior and 3rd W will eventually lower this Inv to 4++

Bear in mind that with Warlord Traits there is a 1 in 6 chance to get another +1 FnP

Now if we combine that with Chapter Master on Bike and in Relic Armour we get:

T6, 4W, 2+/3++, 5+ FnP(or 4+ if lucky), It Will Not Die = OMFG!

To give him a suitable weapon, let's grab Axe of Medusa: +2S AP2 Master-Crafted.
Here's a twist, attacks that will get roll of 6 for to-wound are resolved as +4S

Evil I tell ya.

Quick Question. How did you get the Toughness 6?

I want to believe it but I can't seem to find the extra 1 Toughness to get him to 6, assuming he starts with 4 and gets +1 for the bike. Does the Chain give him +1 Toughness too but you just didnt mention it? or is it from somewhere else?