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The Emperor could have chosen words to make that intent law but did not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
That the Rune Priests did not fall into a group officially called the Librarius is... fairly irrelevant.

It's extremely relevant. The word "Librarius" is not just a label for SM psykers; it refers to a specific approach engineered primarily by Magnus.

Perhaps because he was expecting to be able to clarify it, should the need arise, by his further edicts, in the future?

We can only guess at what the Emperor might have thought or might have intended, and in such scenarios anyone's guess is as good as any other.

And, as I mentioned with the word, it doesn't really change. "Librarius" is a "High Gothic" word. "Librarian" would be its Low Gothic equivalent, but it's the same word in two dialects of the same language. They *didn't* change the name of the department and, further, it's really kind of a straw-grasping move on the part of the post-Heresy Chapters to claim the Edict doesn't apply to them, because they're now in Chapters, not Legions. Why would that matter? If it was total number of psykers available to a Legion that was the crux of the issue, it would have been far simpler for the GE to say "Your Librarium can only be, like, five dudes. That's it. Yes, I'll be counting!".

I agree that the Chapter issue is separate from the question of Rune Priests. But the Edict does not technically apply to chapters. Even so, as you say, the Edict was about Librarius departments and one can hardly fault the Emperor for not mentioning Chapters. At the same time, he may have done that very thing on purpose in view of Malcador's plans.

But a Librarius department is not just a group of SM psykers. This distinction is the cornerstone to understanding the text of the Edict.

Going by letter of the decree, Russ is fine, and actually, as you point out, new psykers could get around it by naming themselves something different.

It really all just made more sense when they specified sorcery, even if the argument could be made that Magnus' Librarius and sorcery are the same thing, since the higher levels involved tapping into warp entities (tutelaries) to boost power output.

However, it doesn't seem these skills translated outside of the Thousand Sons Fellowships (or really even beyond Magnus and the captains), as the Librarius picks right up without a hitch, so the scale of the pronouncement doesn't make sense. Perhaps with Othere and Valdor (and Russ and Mortarion) hyping up how evil Magnus is, the Emperor over-reacted because he had other more pressing issues to deal with?

Also, the in-universe understanding of the decree seems to assume the intent was to ban all psykers, as the Wolves in Unremembered Empire are questioned why they think the edict doesn't apply to them. I'll try to find the passage, but the Wolves snarl the usual "Fenris blah blah" stuff and the issue is dropped since Guilliman was doing the same. Also, all the psykers recruited by Garro brought up the edict.


Anyway, I don't think Magnus was punished so much for defying the edict, per se, although that was a convenient excuse. The Thousand Sons could have probably kept on doing what they were doing, and more or less fly under the radar (Emperor wouldn't drop sanction if he heard the Sons tossed a couple of lightning bolts while conquering a planet, no matter how much Russ and Valdor whined). But when your son appears wrapped in a mantle of daemonic power, destroys your best toy, kills thousands of people, and tears a giant warp rift in the heart of a Terra, it's kind of hard to look the other way.

The Emperor knew one of his sons would try to undo his "great work", just not which one, and Magnus' little Quantum Leap seemed to confirm every suspicion and whispered rumor. Russ should have brought him back, but he went there with the worst suspicions, and his vision for the Wolves' role in the post-Crusade Imperium was that of a not-so-secret police. It ain't gestapo if it ain't heavy handed.

 Omegus wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Omegus wrote:
That's your definition of "flat out lying"?

Your purposefully mischaracterized the text to suit your argument and filled it out by insulting me, which is all you can do even now.

Actually, that is what you are doing. You are focusing on the specific wording of one statement in one novel, while ignoring the larger context and what is actually transpiring in the story. It is not mis-characterization to say the Wolves believe the psyker stigma doesn't apply to them.

The Sws know their Rune Priest are psykers and say as much in Prospero Burns. The issue then is "If the Rune Priest are the same as Librarians. The why are the Wolves allowed to use them in front of Custodes and Sisters of Silence. When a Raven guard Librarian is threatened with death for doing the same"???

Either at the very highest levels Rune priest are known to be seperate form Librarians or the head of the Emperor's boby guard is part of some great conspirecy that also includes the Sister of Silence.

Its not UE that has the Rune Priest. It Fear to Tread. But in UE the head SW agrees with Guilliman's discision to overrule the edict.

so as fun as this was to read....

I love Leman Russ and will always be loyal to him, however I can see where his blind adoration and idolization of his father lead to some poor choices.

Further back before the thread became about who had bigger teef (so to speak) someone posted a good summary of Russ and I had never really put him in this role until now and it fits IMHO

He is the grizzled precise warrior who has done alot of things under orders that he may or may not be proud of (prospero) but had justified in his own way so that his particular job was done with the same level of lethality and effectivness he brings to the table normally.

also psykers and what not, yeah but shhhhhh its magic wolf powers

So there are a number of points here where we can agree:

 Omegus wrote:
It really all just made more sense when they specified sorcery

To me, this was a much more interesting story even if it was less detailed. CalagrsPimpHand mentioned something similar. I guess this created problems for McNeill, however, because how is the arch-atheist Emperor supposed to give credence to accusations of sorcery when he is obviously the sorcerer par excellence?

 Omegus wrote:
Anyway, I don't think Magnus was punished so much for defying the edict, per se, although that was a convenient excuse.

YES! This is a big problem. As far as I can tell, the issue that got Magnus in trouble did not necessarily have anything to do with his Legion's Librarius department per se. After all, the Emperor did not decree that Magnus himself could not use psychic powers unless we talk about the spirit rather than the letter of the Edict. Going by the letter, Magnus got punished and Russ did not. Now, what Magnus did was obviously much more destructive than anything Russ could do but even so ...

Okay when did this go from "Russ a brute? or a hero?" and went into "Rune Priest waaah waaah waahh" along with "Hypocrite this and hypocritical that"?

This is 40K people. There are plot holes and the like all over. I learned that but hey I still support Russ even with his issues because no Primarch is as picture perfect as people want em to be. Thnk hard on that...you know it's true

Well, we're talking about one of the central issues when considering whether Russ is a brute or a hero, i.e., what motivated him to go after a brother to such an extent.

 Manchu wrote:
The Emperor could have chosen words to make that intent law but did not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
That the Rune Priests did not fall into a group officially called the Librarius is... fairly irrelevant.

It's extremely relevant. The word "Librarius" is not just a label for SM psykers; it refers to a specific approach engineered primarily by Magnus.

You can put it another way. All Sorcerers are psychers, not all psychers are sorcerers. And it probably worried the Big E that sorcerer and Librarian teachings were much too similar, thus prompting him to say what he said. Even if all magic power comes from the warp, the ways of manipulating it may very much very from one tradition to another. I can draw a current parallel to myself that maybe others will understand. I am a spiritual person, however I am not religious in the slightest. It very could be the traditions of Fenris that protect the rune priest from the chaos of the warp. It would be like two people playing with fire, only one is naked and the other is wearing full protective gear. Both can create a 20 ft bon fire, only one will still have their body hair afterwards.

Has there ever been a cannon fluff piece of a Rune Priest falling to Chaos? I don't know of one, but I've haven't read nearly as much as some of the rest of you. Is it power creep that a Runic weapon (exactly the same thing as a Librarians force weapon) is also extremely deadly vs daemons? Seems a bit odd enemy to choose from just to give it a table top buff, unless maybe the change is also to represent the fluff of Rune Priest being somewhat more protected/ready for the challenges of the warp. I think if they made rune priests immune to perils there would have been blood in the streets. A fluff buff is one thing, a +9000 power jump is another. Just a thought, not that TT performance is any great judgement of fluff.

I for one am totally ok with Russ keeping his Rune Priests. I don't see it as Hypocrisy at all. They are different than Librarians, Sorcerers, Priests, Navigators, Astropaths, etc. There are many examples where things are "just different enough" to exclude one from something that effects the other. Both Gasoline and Diesel fuel comes from the same crude oil. But you can't put either one in the others gas tank and expect the car to go.

 Omegus wrote:
Guilliman said that Horus was mad jelly over the Lion being the "enigmatic Lord of the First" and his biggest point of pride about being named Warmaster was that he won over the Lion (implying Horus didn't care about winning over Guilliman or Dorn). Given the mountain of insecurities Horus was buried under, that smack talk could have just been those insecurities talking. Sure Horus said he'd have voted for Sanguinius, but the angelic guy seems the easy cop-out choice (that Guilliman and the Lion both also make).

Anyway, the most fun Primarch in the book is Konrad. He's just so deliciously loony, and wreaks utter devastation evereywhere he goes. People say he's the Batman, but this dude is all Joker.

So what you are telling me is that Horus was green with envy over not being a "broods behind bangs" emo kid?

Lol, what a crock of garbage. Also, he didn't just talk trash about the Lion, he did the same about Guilliman (Not Dorn though, whom he trusted 100%).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
I caught you flat-out lying about the Space Wolves and you expect me to believe you're discussing the other Legions in good faith? Better load on some more personal insults to give your posts credibility, I guess.

He's right though.

In Fear to Tread, it is discovered that Librarians can most effectively fight the Daemons. Sanguinius in 10 seconds flat defies the Council of Nikaea to give him an edge. Hell, when Azkaellon (Or however you spell his name) points out how using psychic power to save Sanguinius' life would make them traitors, Raldoran's response is "So be it".

Know No Fear foreshadowed the Ultramarines abolishing the Edict, with several Ultramarines and IIRC Guilliman himself bemoaning how the Edict effectively hamstrung them when it came to Warp-spawned threats.

In The Lion, the moment it is brought to his attention that Warp powers (Those of the Librarians and the Navigators) are more effective at killing the Daemons, he immediately defies the Edict and orders them to join their aetheric might to the battle. When Nemiel, a chaplain, points out that the Emperor forbid the further use of Librarians and psychic abilities, and even points out that, yes Lion, the Emperor's orders do in fact overrule yours, the Lion karate chops his fething head off.

I'm not sure where the Sigillite stands, since he might actually have the authority to defy the Edict. Dorn might also not really be defying its letter, though he certainly was far more hilariously psychotic about it.

As for Leman Russ, while the Emperor's speech that we see does not directly condemn psykers in the Legions, only the Librarians, let's see what Azkaellon has to say on the matter:

"For the first time, Azkaellon noted the presence of a Rune Priest standing in Redknife’s shadow. The Wolf cleric’s armour was dressed with scrimshawed bones, his open-faced
helm apparently carved out of a great canine’s skull. He was careful to stay at his commander’s shoulder, his hand forever on the hilt of a serrated force sword. The Sanguinary Guard
unconsciously mirrored the priest’s gesture, his gauntlet falling to the pommel of his glaive encarmine. ‘I see that is so,’ he said. ‘Not only do you break the simple rules of fleet protocol,
but you also defy the Emperor’s edict.’ He jutted his chin towards the Rune Priest. ‘You know that psykers are no longer permitted within the Legiones Astartes.’
The cleric answered in a tongue that Azkaellon could not understand, but he knew enough to recognise a Fenrisian dialect when he heard it. Redknife gave a brief nod. ‘My battlebrother
Stiel is not a witch-mind, Blood Angel, and he forgives you for your error. It is a common misconception.’
‘Can he not tell me that himself, in Imperial Gothic?’
‘No,’ said the captain. ‘My skald speaks in our ancient way. It is a tradition, you understand?’
‘I don’t.’ Azkaellon’s tone grew colder. ‘And I say again: the Decree of Nikaea has forbidden the use of psychic powers. Your… priest… should be returned to the rank and file, not
allowed to treat with the warp.’
Stiel made a hissing noise, but Redknife silenced him with a look. ‘His power is pure. It comes from Fenris, as does mine. That is the explanation I will give you, the only explanation.’
He gestured at the air. ‘Now, we may continue on in this vein or we may cut to the meat of this. Which do you choose, Guard Commander?’
For a moment, Azkaellon entertained the notion of placing the arrogant Wolves in the Hermia’s brig, or ejecting them and their Thunderhawk back into void. ‘A question, then, Space
Wolf. Why have you interrupted our journey? There is a vital summons that this flotilla must answer and your unexpected arrival hinders us.’"

You can argue Azkaellon is wrong, but frankly, I'd like to think he knows a lot more about the Emperor's edict than some guy online.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jayden63 wrote:
All Sorcerers are psychers

Not true.

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:
Okay when did this go from "Russ a brute? or a hero?" and went into "Rune Priest waaah waaah waahh" along with "Hypocrite this and hypocritical that"?

This is 40K people. There are plot holes and the like all over. I learned that but hey I still support Russ even with his issues because no Primarch is as picture perfect as people want em to be. Thnk hard on that...you know it's true

because it's relevent to a discussion of his character. Russ employed psykers while condeeming psykers, he embraced superstition while crusading to end it.

In short Russ may have fought to eistablish the Imperium, but I don't think he belived in the ideals behind it.

I think this conversation will change quite a bit when people read Scars (or anything written since 2010 in Manchu's case).

In these episodes, Magnus finally stops living in denial and accepts that he fethed up really bad. I haven't read the material yet, so I can't say for sure, but this could well be when Magnus finally becomes fully committed to the cause enough to have his boys rain lightning on the Gates of Terra.

In the book, Russ apparently also finally comes to terms with the reality of his actions and how he was manipulated. I always was far more put off not by the fact that Russ sacked Prospero (he was following his nature and his orders), but the fact that he seemed unfazed to find out that his suspicions were wrong, his orders corrupted, and his actions murderous and in defiance of the Emperor. He just brushed it under the carpet and covered it up, yet it seems BL finally decided to deal with the issue. This sets up the current wolves' individualistic streak, since the last Imperial proxy they obeyed caused them to murder loyal brothers, so now they ignore anything not for the Emperor himself.

Can't wait.

 Omegus wrote:
I think this conversation will change quite a bit when people read Scars (or anything written since 2010 in Manchu's case).

In these episodes, Magnus finally stops living in denial and accepts that he fethed up really bad. I haven't read the material yet, so I can't say for sure, but this could well be when Magnus finally becomes fully committed to the cause enough to have his boys rain lightning on the Gates of Terra.

In the book, Russ apparently also finally comes to terms with the reality of his actions and how he was manipulated. I always was far more put off not by the fact that Russ sacked Prospero (he was following his nature and his orders), but the fact that he seemed unfazed to find out that his suspicions were wrong, his orders corrupted, and his actions murderous and in defiance of the Emperor. He just brushed it under the carpet and covered it up, yet it seems BL finally decided to deal with the issue. This sets up the current wolves' individualistic streak, since the last Imperial proxy they obeyed caused them to murder loyal brothers, so now they ignore anything not for the Emperor himself.

Can't wait.

I've always loved the way that Tzneetch managed to make it so that the Wolves ended up turning the Thousand Sons against the Emperor, rather than through "wow my dad sux ballz yo"

Also when's the next BL heresy book coming out, and who's the focus?

 Void__Dragon wrote:
You can argue Azkaellon is wrong, but frankly, I'd like to think he knows a lot more about the Emperor's edict than some guy online.

Drollery is no substitute for argument. Was Azkaellon at Nikaea? Thanks to Graham McNeill, we had front row seats. The only reason to pretend the text of A Thousand Sons is unclear is to bash the SW. In the passage you quoted, all we see is the difference of perspective between Legions. The BA seem to assume Librarians and SM psykers are entirely and exclusively synonymous, which makes sense given their primarch's role in the development of the Librarius. The SW disagree. As I have said before, the Edict supports their view: the Emperor could have made any distinction he desired but the one he did make was between Librarius-trained psykers and all other psykers.

 Omegus wrote:
I think this conversation will change quite a bit when people read Scars (or anything written since 2010 in Manchu's case).

Nothing you've posted about Scars has anything to do with Nikaea not applying to the SW. Also, the last HH book I read was KNF.

I'm not talking abour Scars, but the other half dozen books I cited you pretend don't exist even after others confirmed what happened in them.

But that's nothing new, keep fixating on the tangent. Your ignorant and misguided judgement of Magnus has been thoroughly debunked.

Repeating an insult doesn't create an argument. And I'm getting a little weary of you breaking our site rules. So let's keep this on-topic and not personal.

None of the books you've cited establish that the SW violated the Edict. None of the books you've cited establish that there was more to the Edict than contemplated in A Thousand Sons. None of the books you've cited actually relates to any disagreement between us.

If you're now arguing that Magnus had it rough then we aren't disagreeing. As I mentioned above under the headline "points we can agree on," I'm not sure how not disbanding his Librarius department or allowing former members to practice sorcery is the cause of Magnus's breaching of the Palace wards, the event that triggered the Emperor to send Russ after Magnus. Was Magnus only able to achieve this because he violated the letter of the Edict? Possibly. I don't recall. But I see no reason that it must necessarily have been the case.

 Manchu wrote:
Repeating an insult doesn't create an argument. And I'm getting a little weary of you breaking our site rules. So let's keep this on-topic and not personal.

None of the books you've cited establish that the SW violated the Edict. None of the books you've cited establish that there was more to the Edict than contemplated in A Thousand Sons. None of the books you've cited actually relates to any disagreement between us.

If you're now arguing that Magnus had it rough then we aren't disagreeing. As I mentioned above under the headline "points we can agree on," I'm not sure how not disbanding his Librarius department or allowing former members to practice sorcery is the cause of Magnus's breaching of the Palace wards, the event that triggered the Emperor to send Russ after Magnus. Was Magnus only able to achieve this because he violated the letter of the Edict? Possibly. I don't recall. But I see no reason that it must necessarily have been the case.

‘I don’t.’ Azkaellon’s tone grew colder. ‘And I say again: the Decree of Nikaea has forbidden the use of psychic powers. Your… priest… should be returned to the rank and file, not
allowed to treat with the warp.’

There's your answer. Now would you stop posting misinformation and stop sticking with your fixed tangent?

A direct quotation from a HH novel is not misinformation whether you like it or not.

Azkaellon's remarks show his clear mistake: Yes, Nikaea did forbid the use of psychic powers and mandated the return to the rank and file ... of former Librarius members. Azkaellon's mistake is understandable. The BA likely have no pyskers who were not part of their Librarius. The SW by contrast have no psykers who were ever part of a Librarius department.

 Manchu wrote:
A direct quotation from a HH novel is not misinformation whether you like it or not.

Azkaellon's remarks show his clear mistake: Yes, Nikaea did forbid the use of psychic powers and mandated the return to the rank and file ... of former Librarius members. Azkaellon's mistake is understandable. The BA likely have no pyskers who were not part of their Librarius. The SW by contrast have no psykers who were ever part of a Librarius department.

So..now the books characters are now mistaken, despite being able to read the entire Edict, the Edict that has had been shown in most fluff with better credible sources than one singular line in a single book that wasn't the actual full Decree of Nikea

I love it, you can't help but fixate so entirely upon that one line of yours so much that you think the books characters are wrong.

 Manchu wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
You can argue Azkaellon is wrong, but frankly, I'd like to think he knows a lot more about the Emperor's edict than some guy online.

Drollery is no substitute for argument. Was Azkaellon at Nikaea? Thanks to Graham McNeill, we had front row seats. The only reason to pretend the text of A Thousand Sons is unclear is to bash the SW. In the passage you quoted, all we see is the difference of perspective between Legions. The BA seem to assume Librarians and psykers are entirely and exclusively synonymous, which makes sense given their primarch's role in the development of the Librarius. The SW disagree. As I have said before, the Edict supports their view: the Emperor could have made any distinction he desired but the one he did make was between Librarius-trained psykers and all other psykers.

 Omegus wrote:
I think this conversation will change quite a bit when people read Scars (or anything written since 2010 in Manchu's case).

Nothing you've posted about Scars has anything to do with Nikaea not applying to the SW. Also, the last HH book I read was KNF.

"Was Azkaellon at Nikaea? Thanks to Graham McNeill, we had front row seats."

This is really the central issue here. Just because McNeill wrote some dialogue for the Emperor, you have latched on to it as though it was the end-all, be-all, definitive account of the entirety of the Edict of Nikea. We don't know if he continued speaking for 15 minutes after that, or if he gave a short speech and then the next day sat down with Malcador and wrote a sweeping piece of psyker-related law that covered all the things Nikea was supposed to have covered according to older fluff, or even whether he was wearing clown shoes and a silly hat when he stood up to talk. Even if you take McNeill's text as some kind of universal truth, we're getting a narrative, not a definitive historical account.

In the end you have to acknowledge we're arguing about a fictional event here as covered by many authors over a series of publications spanning years, so there is no "real" version of events that happened. McNeill's version of events must still be balanced against the rest of the body of fluff. The fact that it was the Emperor speaking in his novel only makes that speech authoritative within that story; in reality we have to look at it as just one data point amid Games Workshop's hands-off approach to fluff and take what other authors say into account as well. When McNeill's Emperor says something that doesn't quite fit with previously established fluff and is subsequently ignored by other authors, you have to take it for what it is (one sci fi novel among many in a messy storyline) instead of relying on an appeal to a fictional authority. We're not parsing the Dead Sea Scrolls here.

So no, it doesn't matter if Azkaellon was at Nikea. McNeill wasn't at Nikea either. There is no Nikea. What matters is how you want to integrate all the various versions of the story we're given. You can fixate on one line from one novel, or you can accept that a very strict interpretation of McNeill's Nikea diverged from previous fluff and botched a major plot point, and everyone since then has been backing away from his version of things.

Just think about why the scene you are quoting exists in the first place. The point is to show a misunderstanding and suspicion between loyal Legions. The point is not to show that Azkaellon has accurately memorized the Edict.

Also, we are talking about a fictional universe. It doesn't exist apart from what is written and what is written is a matter of what is narratively important. It does not matter how long the Edict may be. Graham McNeill was writing a book about the conflict between the SW and Thousand Sons over the issue of psykers. He wrote everything that we need to know about the Edict to understand that conflict. Furthermore, he chose to write it as coming from the Emperor's own mouth. That is to say, we don't have to rely on another character's interpretation (as with Askaellon) because the issue of interpretation is one of the key conflicts of the story McNeill is telling. Therefore, it was important for him to establish the "text itself" in order to frame the tension of interpretation driving the conflict between the SW and Thousand Sons.

According to Lexi, which as we know isn't always correct, it states that the Emperor ordered

.. that the Legiones Astartes, beyond the use of Navigators and Astropaths, would no longer employ psykers. They were to disband their Librarius departments, the Librarians re-deployed to the battle companies

So wouldn't this also cover the Rune Priests as well as a the Librarius as it warns against employing psychic powers as well as disbanding any Librarius departments. So regardless of the Space Wolves not having one, so nothing to disband, they would still be covered under the no use of psychic powers part.

Obviously this depends on the accuracy of the quote.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
The fact that it was the Emperor speaking in his novel only makes that speech authoritative within that story.

This is totally incorrect. The HH is a series. What happens in one book affects what happens in others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Obviously this depends on the accuracy of the quote.

Yep. And we know there are different accounts. I don't have the sources in front of me at the moment but IIRC Index Astartes says one thing and Visions of Heresy says something else. Now we have A Thousand Sons.

Index Astartes is the least reliable in in-universe terms because it only purports to be the distant memory of the events. McNeill was involved with portions of Visions of Heresy and obviously wrote A Thousand Sons so it is likely there is more agreement between those sources.

 Manchu wrote:

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
The fact that it was the Emperor speaking in his novel only makes that speech authoritative within that story.

This is totally incorrect. The HH is a series. What happens in one book affects what happens in others.

Unless they forget about stuff or don't like bits, or want to add in their own parts making it better.

I guess I agree with what CPH is saying in some regards, the Emperor told us what the Edict would entail in A Thousand Sons, but the version that was passed on and distributed to the Legions possible was a fuller more thorough version, hence Azkaellon and his reaction to the Space Wolves. But without any idea of what this is we only have what the Emperor has given us and the version from Thousand Sons.

My point is Azkaellon's reaction to the SW does not have to be based on some fuller version of the decree not available to the audience. In fact, that would be a major writing mistake. So Azkaellon's remarks do not necessitate a reading of A Thousand Sons contrary to the plain meaning of the words.

Also:

 Manchu wrote:
Just think about why the scene you are quoting exists in the first place. The point is to show a misunderstanding and suspicion between loyal Legions. The point is not to show that Azkaellon has accurately memorized the Edict.

But clearly believes Azkaellon that the SW are in violation of the Edict, so there is confusion somewhere. I for sure am going to check the Trial in Thousand Sons to see what the actual wording is.

‘I don’t.’ Azkaellon’s tone grew colder. ‘And I say again: the Decree of Nikaea has forbidden the use of psychic powers. Your… priest… should be returned to the rank and file, not
allowed to treat with the warp.’

In story terms, yes, I can imagine it would a mistake, but in fluff terms it would be a nice thing to have. At least we could get to the bottom of are Rune Priests actually allowed or not. and why opinions differ on the matter amongst the Legions, well, those that actually care anyway.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
But clearly believes Azkaellon that the SW are in violation of the Edict, so there is confusion somewhere.

YES! That's what I mean, that is the whole point of the scene.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
and why opinions differ on the matter amongst the Legions

Why wouldn't they? And there might even be disagreement within Legions. That's the theme of the entire Horus Heresy, after all.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I for sure am going to check the Trial in Thousand Sons to see what the actual wording is.

 Manchu wrote:

The Emperor wrote:Let it be known that no one shall suffer censure, for this conclave is to serve Unity, not discord. But no more shall the threat of sorcery be allowed to taint the warriors of the Astartes. Henceforth, it is my will that no Legion will maintain a Librarius department. All its warriors and instructors must be returned to the battle companies and never again employ any psychic powers.

A Thousand Sons, p. 355, my emphasis

You can put it another way. All Sorcerers are psychers, not all psychers are sorcerers. And it probably worried the Big E that sorcerer and Librarian teachings were much too similar, thus prompting him to say what he said. Even if all magic power comes from the warp, the ways of manipulating it may very much very from one tradition to another. I can draw a current parallel to myself that maybe others will understand. I am a spiritual person, however I am not religious in the slightest. It very could be the traditions of Fenris that protect the rune priest from the chaos of the warp. It would be like two people playing with fire, only one is naked and the other is wearing full protective gear. Both can create a 20 ft bon fire, only one will still have their body hair afterwards.

Though, from other sources, we know this to be untrue. A Psyker can learn Sorcery and do nifty things with it, but a Sorcerer is not automatically a Psyker.

Sorcery involves all the chanting, hand-waving, funny runes and sigils and the stuff that we take as a given in any sort of fantasy setting and pertaining to "magic" and "wizards". This is how your random Hive-Scum learns to summon daemons and entrap the wills of others and all that other kind of arcane stuff. Psykers do the same mind-tricks, but without the chanting and eye of newt and that kind of stuff.

It is also how the various Chaos Cultists do their stuff, with the chanting and sacrificing and all that. That's Sorcery. Psykers don't need that stuff. They just bend reality to their will by thinking about it.

One way to look at it is the Psyker is the conduit through which the Warp and Reality interact, the Sorcerer requires a ritual action that bridges the gap between the two, creating a conduit through certain practices that weaken the veil until the desired result is achieved (or, more likely, *some* kind of Warp-based effect, not always what the Sorcerer intended.)

 Manchu wrote:
Henceforth, it is my will that no Legion will maintain a Librarius department. All its warriors and instructors must be returned to the battle companies and never again employ any psychic powers.

A Thousand Sons, p. 355, my emphasis