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This has been a great thread, thanks all for contributing to it. I'm new to the Sisters of Battle (not to 40k) after having dug up my old 4th ed witch hunters codex/collection again. The scene I play in is competitive and I'd like to run with the big kids while using the Bolter Babes. I realize there's a certain amount of fluff involved in selecting sisters, which is awesome, but for you tournament players, when you look at the gladius strike force which does the exact same thing sisters do for cheaper with better stats and doctrines, what do you do to bring the game back into your favor?

What follows is an attempt to use allies to maximize the strength of the sisters, i.e. cheap power armor mechanized obsec units by combining it with allies which provide combat power, ignores cover fire, and long range fire power.

I am interested in Panzerleader's list based on the amount of AV 13 found there in (also I really recommend trying to get one of those wyverns up to a basilisk. You have not lived until you drop an ignores cover earthshaker shell on a raven wing command squad). Do you find it worth doubling the cost of a rhino when your sides/rear are no better off? This is especially relevant in the days of D/grav/warp spider/scat-bike spam.

If you (you all, of course) find AV 13 to be the tipping point (AV 12 chimeras for 65 are not so hot), do you think saturating is a good idea? In addition, there is 0 CC power in your list aside from Celestine, who's a pretty fragile little flower thanks to no EW. My point is this: The adamantine lance or Baronial court gives you 18 AV 13 HP with a ward (either 3+ or a 4+ rr) plus combat power and either long range firepower or some extra hulk-smash.

As an example:
Cannonness w/book
5 Sisters - Repressor
5 Sisters - Repressor
5 Sisters - Repressor
5 Sisters - Repressor
Exorcist
Exorcist

Baronial Court
Gallant
Gallant
Gallant

1835

So 15 points for upgrades on the BSS, or 20 if you drop the book, netting a flamer per squad. I suppose you could cut one repressor squad in favor of either a fancy knight or bigger sisters squads/better guns, but packing 3 knights and 6 AV 13 tanks seems kinda nice.

If you drop a knight, you can pick up 2 melta dom squads in repressors, which might be solid as it gives your opponent something to deal with on T1 aside from the knights.

Another thought I had (sorry for being so wordy...) is the vindicator from the SM and DA dex. In units of 3, they can sac 2 shots to nab an appocalyptic s10 ap2 ignores cover shot, which is beast mode. The problem is that they can't use this if one is shaken/stunned. Enter the Armored Task Force and Hammer of Caliban, both of which let you mitigate the fragility of the vindicators by either ignoring shaken/stunned or sticking a land raider (ride for the conclave?) in the front to soak the hits. So you run up the field with doms, the caliban squadron, and buckets of repressors, you have lots of LoS blocking vehicles, many ignores cover threats, and a shocking amount of AV 13.

Lastly, would a typhoon missile launcher Ravenwing support squadron: fast, hardy, long range S8 AP3 missiles.

I like what you're trying, but I think you need more punch. I would drop a couple of the BSS repressor squads and try to get doms in there somewhere. Also, you need special weapons for the squads.

Ether wrote:
This has been a great thread, thanks all for contributing to it. I'm new to the Sisters of Battle (not to 40k) after having dug up my old 4th ed witch hunters codex/collection again. The scene I play in is competitive and I'd like to run with the big kids while using the Bolter Babes. I realize there's a certain amount of fluff involved in selecting sisters, which is awesome, but for you tournament players, when you look at the gladius strike force which does the exact same thing sisters do for cheaper with better stats and doctrines, what do you do to bring the game back into your favor?

What follows is an attempt to use allies to maximize the strength of the sisters, i.e. cheap power armor mechanized obsec units by combining it with allies which provide combat power, ignores cover fire, and long range fire power.

I am interested in Panzerleader's list based on the amount of AV 13 found there in (also I really recommend trying to get one of those wyverns up to a basilisk. You have not lived until you drop an ignores cover earthshaker shell on a raven wing command squad). Do you find it worth doubling the cost of a rhino when your sides/rear are no better off? This is especially relevant in the days of D/grav/warp spider/scat-bike spam.

If you (you all, of course) find AV 13 to be the tipping point (AV 12 chimeras for 65 are not so hot), do you think saturating is a good idea? In addition, there is 0 CC power in your list aside from Celestine, who's a pretty fragile little flower thanks to no EW. My point is this: The adamantine lance or Baronial court gives you 18 AV 13 HP with a ward (either 3+ or a 4+ rr) plus combat power and either long range firepower or some extra hulk-smash.

As an example:
Cannonness w/book
5 Sisters - Repressor
5 Sisters - Repressor
5 Sisters - Repressor
5 Sisters - Repressor
Exorcist
Exorcist

Baronial Court
Gallant
Gallant
Gallant

1835

So 15 points for upgrades on the BSS, or 20 if you drop the book, netting a flamer per squad. I suppose you could cut one repressor squad in favor of either a fancy knight or bigger sisters squads/better guns, but packing 3 knights and 6 AV 13 tanks seems kinda nice.

If you drop a knight, you can pick up 2 melta dom squads in repressors, which might be solid as it gives your opponent something to deal with on T1 aside from the knights.

Another thought I had (sorry for being so wordy...) is the vindicator from the SM and DA dex. In units of 3, they can sac 2 shots to nab an appocalyptic s10 ap2 ignores cover shot, which is beast mode. The problem is that they can't use this if one is shaken/stunned. Enter the Armored Task Force and Hammer of Caliban, both of which let you mitigate the fragility of the vindicators by either ignoring shaken/stunned or sticking a land raider (ride for the conclave?) in the front to soak the hits. So you run up the field with doms, the caliban squadron, and buckets of repressors, you have lots of LoS blocking vehicles, many ignores cover threats, and a shocking amount of AV 13.

Lastly, would a typhoon missile launcher Ravenwing support squadron: fast, hardy, long range S8 AP3 missiles.

So I'll try to cover as much as possible:

(1) I like double wyverns because it lets me spread the artillery across the board. The orders range is really tight (12", 6" to get the effect of the relic) and the wyverns aren't reliant on orders. With a basilisk at almost double the cost, I'd be forced to clump the tanks very tightly to get consistent ignores cover on both which makes it hard to spread the board against mobile assault armies or avoid multiple hits from blast markers. Wyverns also tend to consistently generate more hits against small units and I've found the ignore cover S10 is good enough against Ravenwing command squads when combined with the other ignore cover fire power in the list.

(2) AV13 is great. Immunity to S6 fire on the front is huge, especially against lists like tyranid FMCs and scat bike spam when you need to survive turn one and they deploy first. I was already paying for Immolators before so it was a marginal upgrade cost. The extra 3 firepoints are also huge to maximize the use of special weapons.

(3) My list thrives on denying scout/infiltrate moves and then destroying from long range. I've got six units that shoot significant firepower at 48"+ and lots of melta for when the enemy closes in. Celestine is more than sufficient for bullying non-assault specialists and cleaning up units like warp spiders.

(4) I personally have never lost to a list with more than 1 knight. There might be some luck involved in that, but mostly I don't think you can properly support more than one knight at 1850 and below. I also think 1 knight provides plenty of options to your list and is a decent investment by itself. If you go to a single knight and drop one BSS squad, you'd be able to add in 3 dominion squads in repressors, 1 exorcist and add specials to your BSS squads with some points to spare still. That would actually net you two additional AV 13 platforms and some heavy flamers/melta guns to clear away drop podding marines.

Hope that helps.

Hey guys, so, not *exactly* tactics, but a fellow Sisters player won best painted at LVO last weekend, and since this is the Sisters thread, wanted to send a well deserved congrats to Obi and his amazing, amazing SoB army. Here is a link:

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/02/16/lvo-2016-obis-award-winning-sob-army/

talljosh85 wrote:
Hey guys, so, not *exactly* tactics, but a fellow Sisters player won best painted at LVO last weekend, and since this is the Sisters thread, wanted to send a well deserved congrats to Obi and his amazing, amazing SoB army. Here is a link:

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/02/16/lvo-2016-obis-award-winning-sob-army/

I saw that army in person and it was amazing!

Alright, so I've drawn a Tau opponent for my 2000 point game this weekend. I'm not sure what his army looks like exactly... my first time against Tau this edition, and my first game against this opponent (he's known to me as a guy who fields a tough army, is up on his rules, doesn't pull his punches, and is a fair-minded and good-natured opponent). I know his army is pretty up-to-date, he's got the new Tau books, and I've seen plenty of suits across the room during other games (but not, I think, the big Lord of War suit).

This will also be my first game integrating White Scars grav bikers with my Sisters. I got some solid advice in another thread on this forum on that build:



Any general advice on fighting Tau? I know to try to identify and eliminate marker lights and to try to get into melee if it doesn't mean getting destroyed by overwatch. Any thoughts on the juiciest targets for melta and grav with ignore cover, and whether better to scout or outflank? Do I want to hit & run on my turn even if it means more overwatch, or just stay stuck in? If I draw second turn, should I use scout moves to advance or grab cover? Which units or guns should I absolutely try to steer clear of? And do I want a terrain heavy table, or at least some dense avenues of approach to block his LoS at range?

Many thanks in advance!

Scout or Outflank is dependent on who deploys first in my experience. I wouldn't use H&R against Tau personally unless they did something crazy and tried to lock a character-killer with fire warriors. XD

LoS blocking is much more useful than cover saves - cover saves give you movement penalties, and you want to be in close... and he can get ignores cover super-easily.

Be careful of using Outflank or any Reserves against Tau - Tau can get Interceptor all over the place (look out for Broadsides, Riptides and Stormsurges especially with the Early Warning Override upgrade) which means they can shoot your units that come out of reserve in your own movement phase. I'm not saying don't use Reserves at all, but just pay attention to what, if anything, has Early Warning Overrides and use your Reserves carefully.

Also probably expect Deep Striking Crisis Suits to pop in next to your Exorcists with Fusion Blasters (ie Tau Melta guns).

Take a close look at his army and see what his ideal ranges are. Most Tau like to shoot between 18" and 36". I would try to go first and scout into an advantageous position to control the board and set up a strike against a key target like a riptide.

If you go second, look for LOS blocking terrain. Avoid reserves if he has lots of interceptor.

Great advice! Sounds like if I get to go first, I scout across the table and go after his suits with melta and grav, but if I go second I use my scout moves to grab some LoS blocking positions and wait. If he's loaded up on early warning, I should limit my reserves and scout everything instead, but if he doesn't, I should carefully outflank some melta Doms or grav bikers to get at those long range suits.

Sounds like I shouldn't assault unless it's an obvious target isolated from the rest of his force based on the overwatch support, but if I do charge, H&R is less enticing than usual. I was thinking that getting into assault after a turn or two of short-range shooting would save me from being outranged and shot to pieces from across the table, but maybe that isn't the case?

Thanks for giving me specific upgrades to watch for... I'll study up on Tau suit varieties. Any formations I should anticipate? There was a lot of chatter about a stealth cadre when those new books were released, but I don't know which formations actually proved themselves.

MacPhail wrote:
Great advice! Sounds like if I get to go first, I scout across the table and go after his suits with melta and grav, but if I go second I use my scout moves to grab some LoS blocking positions and wait. If he's loaded up on early warning, I should limit my reserves and scout everything instead, but if he doesn't, I should carefully outflank some melta Doms or grav bikers to get at those long range suits.

Sounds like I shouldn't assault unless it's an obvious target isolated from the rest of his force based on the overwatch support, but if I do charge, H&R is less enticing than usual. I was thinking that getting into assault after a turn or two of short-range shooting would save me from being outranged and shot to pieces from across the table, but maybe that isn't the case?

Thanks for giving me specific upgrades to watch for... I'll study up on Tau suit varieties. Any formations I should anticipate? There was a lot of chatter about a stealth cadre when those new books were released, but I don't know which formations actually proved themselves.

There are a lot of good tau formations. Just take a few minutes to review the rules for the ones he fields before starting the game. I saw a bunch of different ones being fielded at LVO and don't think there is a particular "best one" or "must include."

The best thing to do against Tau is to try and isolate his units and assault them on favorable terms. Depending on the list he brings, you actually have a fairly level shooting match between 18" and 30". You can stay in that range band to avoid rapid fire from Fire Warriors and the like. Suits don't get more shots as you close so you want to try and concentrate on one flank and roll up the side rather than engaging the length of his line.

Not a Sisters player, but I just had an idle thought that got me wondering.

How would Sisters of Battle take on an Avatar of Khaine?

My understanding is that the majority of their anti-big-thing weapons are melta, but the Avatar is completely immune to melta (and flamers) due to Molten Body.

I mean, would you just pelt it with bolters and hope it dies to volume of fire, or what?

Robin5t wrote:
Not a Sisters player, but I just had an idle thought that got me wondering.

How would Sisters of Battle take on an Avatar of Khaine?

My understanding is that the majority of their anti-big-thing weapons are melta, but the Avatar is completely immune to melta (and flamers) due to Molten Body.

I mean, would you just pelt it with bolters and hope it dies to volume of fire, or what?

Exorcist Missiles - S8 AP1

Although its never a good idea to play a 7.5 Power Codex like Eldar unless you have the same edition Codex

Yeah, I know the Eldar codex is crazy imbalanced against earlier codexes anyway, that just struck me as a particularly brutal balance issue.

Robin5t wrote:
Not a Sisters player, but I just had an idle thought that got me wondering.

How would Sisters of Battle take on an Avatar of Khaine?

My understanding is that the majority of their anti-big-thing weapons are melta, but the Avatar is completely immune to melta (and flamers) due to Molten Body.

I mean, would you just pelt it with bolters and hope it dies to volume of fire, or what?

I would probably just ignore it. The Avatar's relatively slow and his damage output is minimal against MSU sisters. Better to kill the more efficient support choices and play the mission.

If I had to deal with the avatar, a blob of 20 Sisters with priest will do a decent amount of damage between bolter fire and a round of krak grenades in assault with preferred enemy.

Robin5t wrote:
Not a Sisters player, but I just had an idle thought that got me wondering.

How would Sisters of Battle take on an Avatar of Khaine?

My understanding is that the majority of their anti-big-thing weapons are melta, but the Avatar is completely immune to melta (and flamers) due to Molten Body.

I mean, would you just pelt it with bolters and hope it dies to volume of fire, or what?

I don't think it would be a deal breaker honestly. Killing the Avatar isn't exactly a priorityu target in most games. He's slow. So kill everything else if you find yourself in that situation I suppose. Been an ice age since I saw an Avatar which is a shame.

Quick battle report on the Tau matchup this weekend: Purge the Alien on a Dawn of War board resulted in a 9-4 loss, but I'm taking it as more of a draw because we only made it 3 turns and my opponent was genuinely distressed at the prospect of a 4th. It was 6-4 on kill points, but he got First Blood, Slay the Warlord (Khan was right up in his face) and Linebreaker (with his late-arriving Flyer).

My Army is posted above, Sisters + White Scars. His army, best I can remember: Aun'va w/ a bodyguard that includes a Crisis and some other dudes, Shadownsun with dual fusion attached to a unit of Pathfinders, a big Sniper Drone unit, a Fire Warrior squad with an attached IC, 2 squads of Kroot infiltrators, 2 Piranhas with fusion, a Riptide with burst cannon, 3 Broadsides with railguns and an attached IC in a Crisis suit with a bunch of drones, a Hammerhead with railgun, and a SunShark bomber. His basic design was that between the attached ICs and the buff bubbles, he was firing 3 (sometimes 4) times with each Fire Warrior, Kroot, and Sniper Drone, depending on range. He typically dropped 40-60 dice for each unit's shooting, including overwatch, forcing a ton of saves.

He went first and deployed on the slightly more dense side of the table, with lots of 3-story ruins. He stacked Sniper Drones and Pathfinders on the upper levels, Fire Warriors and Piranhas to one side, Broadsides to the other, with the Riptide and Hammerhead in the center. Kroot were strung out in two lines in front. He had some interceptor, but not a ton, so I reserved a squad of grav bikers and an Immolator Dom squad. I loaded the rest of my deployment heavily on his left flank with the Fire Warriors and Piranhas, hoping to get there quickly and turn the flank while avoiding the bigger suits. I failed to seize, so I used my scout moves to advance a little, but focused on limiting his LoS.

He took hull points off the Exorcists at range with the Hammerhead, but nothing else could punch their front armor, and the Doms got the Hammerhead before it could finish the job. If we'd played more turns, the Exos would have had near-immunity and would have finished doubling out the Broadsides. The Doms, both the ones I scouted and the ones I outflanked, survived the whole game; they got the Hammerhead and both Piranhas, and one group even hopped back in their immobilized ride to deny kill points because my opponent was really struggling with popping my tanks. The BSS Rhino got hung up in a choke point behind an immobilized Piranha. The Rhino Rets made it to the far side and took out some of the Fire Warriors with their Heavy Flamers, but didn't survive overwatch to get in to combat. All in all, the rush of armor was more than he could easily deal with and I feel like I only needed one more turn to get well into his lines.

The White Scars were interesting... they crossed the table more slowly than they might have because I tried to grab cover along the way, not for the saves, but to limit the number of incoming shots. The two small squads both got wiped out by the Broadsides before they could do anything, one as it crossed the table, and the other as it arrived from reserves (I gambled on interceptor and lost). The bike command squad with Khan and the Librarian soaked up the first turn of regular shooting from 5 units, plus more than 100 marker-enhanced overwatch shots, and only lost the 4 grav bikes... FNP is amaaaaazing. Khan, the Librarian, and the Apothecary swept a squad of Kroot, survived another full turn of regular fire from 3 units, and died to another 100+ shots in overwatch on my second turn. Had even one of them made it into combat with the Fire Warriors, they would have substantially reduced the amount of fire that tore up the approaching Sisters and it might have been a much different game.

Some other observations... I never jinked because he never almost denied my armor saves; only a few precision shots from the Sniper Drones did so. What got me was the volume of saves he was able to force. His squad of 13 Fire Warriors with their attached IC and the 12" buff from Aun'Va laid down 52 S5 shots against my T5 bikes, and only FNP got me across the table. Sniper Drones did the same with 36 shots at even longer range. Looking back, I shouldn't have bothered seeking cover or LoS blocking, and I shouldn't have reserved anything. Everything should have blitzed full speed: Scout + Move + Turbo-Boost/Flat Out, despite having second turn. This would have put more units in charge distance for turn 2 so the grav command wouldn't have to soak hundreds of shots by themselves. I was worried about giving up grav gun shots at full BS by jinking and went looking for cover to avoid it, but I never should have hoped to shoot them in turn 1 in the first place; they should have been sprinting for the end zone and forcing him to divide his fire or prioritize certain targets.

Thoughts on the army list... I won't take Celestine again; getting her in a T5 squad would have been nice, but she can't keep up if the bikers make a scout move, so she got left behind (although she eventually assaulted the Sniper Drones, but didn't have time to finished them). Better that her points go for extra bikes. My backfield objective campers had no objectives to camp, but the extra 15 points worth of storm bolters starting mowing down Kroot at 24", and they didn't give up a VP, so I think they might have earned their points in later turns. I think I'm in the market for more Rhino hulls and more bikes; his biggest issue was forcing saves on T5 bikes and trying to pop lots of AV13 and AV11 armor with a 6+ save. If I'd moved a little faster and more boldly, I'd have gotten close enough to disrupt his supporting overwatch.

Anyway, thanks for the excellent advice. My opponent said I'd put the fear into him and gotten deeper into his lines than anyone, and he's undefeated in his last several games in our group.

Great write up!

Two quick thoughts: (1) how'd he grab line breaker with the flyer? It can't score unless in hover which he can't do the turn he arrives from reserves. (2) Scout confers to attached ICs so Celestine could have scouted up with the bikes.

More detailed response later.

MacPhail wrote:
Thoughts on the army list... I won't take Celestine again; getting her in a T5 squad would have been nice, but she can't keep up if the bikers make a scout move, so she got left behind

She can? Scout only requires one model in the unit for the whole unit to be able to redeploy, and since she's Jump Infantry she also moves 12" along with the bikes

Cool, so my mistake there. The last thing I read was about how Khan gives scout to White Scars models on bikes or in transports, and it sunk in that she was excluded. She would have been able to tank some wounds on her 2+ and dish out some hurt in assault; they definitely would have survived overwatch to make their second assault. Noted for next time! I also screwed up movements on some transports, not moving far enough on scout/flatout moves. Between all of those, I should be able to tighten up the rush quite a bit for my next game.

MacPhail wrote:
Cool, so my mistake there. The last thing I read was about how Khan gives scout to White Scars models on bikes or in transports, and it sunk in that she was excluded. She would have been able to tank some wounds on her 2+ and dish out some hurt in assault; they definitely would have survived overwatch to make their second assault. Noted for next time! I also screwed up movements on some transports, not moving far enough on scout/flatout moves. Between all of those, I should be able to tighten up the rush quite a bit for my next game.

So based on what you've said, can you squeeze a TFC into your list? I think that would actually solve your problem by forcing the Tau player to spread the board and diluting his overwatch.

A TFC would need to dislodge something, maybe Jacobus now that I've seen the need to test Celestine with the bikers again. I could also run my Exorcists as Whirlwinds with the Suppression Force and leave the S8 to the scouting Doms. Also, I'd need to acquire the model.

Whirlwinds in a suppression force would do the trick as well. I'd drop Jacobus to make it happen in your current list. A S5, AP4 barrage is pretty deadly for Tau. Do you have enough models to run 3 whirlwinds to pick up pinning and shred?

Yep, I can use a couple of old-style Rhinos to get me there for now... I'm going to add to my Rhino motor pool at some point. Six hulls go out pretty much every game and I always wish for one more. I built turrets to run up to 4 Immolators and 3 Missile-somethings (Exorcists, Whirlwinds). I just need a few more hulls, and I'm going to want extras for some Rhinos/Razorbacks to share with the White Scars. Eventually I want 9 white Rhinos with doors, top plates, and turrets of both colors to share between Sisters and White Scars.

This looks very Sister's of battle to me

Looks very Irish to me. The Shamrock Sisters?
St. O'Celestine?

Damn man. Where'd you find that?

I friggin' want one.

Aedgar Perri wrote:
Damn man. Where'd you find that?

I friggin' want one.

another pic:



Company thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/270/667988.page

Not sure about that. Something is a bit off.

 pretre wrote:
Not sure about that. Something is a bit off.

Perhaps its resemblance to the Munster Mobile?

I'd settle for bikers myself. Or Celestians with a CCW so they're at least useful in Kill Team.