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Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






Long story short, some guys knocked over a loose rock,


No, they knocked over what they said in retrospect was a loose rock, and one they had zero authority, right, or training to knock over. These areas are protected, and I'd be willing to be there are signs at the entrances that let you know not to be a player in their existence. Usually they have signs that say something to the effect of "take only pictures, leave only footprints". This isn't some guys backyard they are scrambling around in, it is a national treasure, and we do our best to preserve it. If they really thought it was a problem then they should have a) not slept underneath it and b) told a park ranger. That is why they are there.


As scouts they should have known better. It is a disgrace.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/20 09:26:43


Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

They're really between a rock and a hard place.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Were the rangers at work when this happened or were they on "unpaid leave" when this occurred ?

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ahtman wrote:


No, they knocked over what they said in retrospect was a loose rock, and one they had zero authority, right, or training to knock over.

Training? There are places that teach people how to push over loose rocks? Really? I mean I'm no expert but they seemed to know how to push over that rock, maybe they had training.


As scouts they should have known better. It is a disgrace.

They didn't really look like scouts though did they, at least not like what scouts used to look like. What happened to outdoors types who were responsible? This was a bunch of fat couch potatoes mucking around.
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 reds8n wrote:
Were the rangers at work when this happened or were they on "unpaid leave" when this occurred ?


State park.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

...so..... err... different department then ?

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

cadbren wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:


No, they knocked over what they said in retrospect was a loose rock, and one they had zero authority, right, or training to knock over.

Training? There are places that teach people how to push over loose rocks? Really? I mean I'm no expert but they seemed to know how to push over that rock, maybe they had training.



There are even university courses on that, some people even get to put a "doctor" in front of their name if they know a lot about rocks!

But yes, there is lots of training for this particular event. Training to examine and study these particular rock formations, to see if they are becoming unstable or if they are staring to pose a risk to others. Training on how to either preserve them or how to secure the area around them so that they can fall over naturally. Training on how to knock them over in a way that minimize the disruption to anything else in that area.

Those are a few, just in case you actually don't know and are not just posting in mock-shock about what others are posting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 reds8n wrote:
...so..... err... different department then ?


I was assuming that you were talking about the government shutdown.

State parks are funded and staffed by individual states, so they were not affected by the shutdown. Only federal parks were closed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/20 10:11:47


 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





 d-usa wrote:

Those are a few, just in case you actually don't know and are not just posting in mock-shock about what others are posting.



Part of me says they're rocks and they fell over, so what. Part of me thinks these guys are idiots who are a disgrace to the spirit of the scouting movement.
The thing is, just in my immediate area several old trees have been cut down to give people more light and because they make a mess as the usual excuses go. These were old oak trees and an old native tree (puriri) that were there long before the houses were even built, let alone the morons that moved in. One of the volcanic cones in my city is called One Tree Hill. Until a protester ringbarked it forcing the council to cut it down, there was a lone prominent tree on the top that could be seen from much of the city, it was a city landmark - after 13 years the council has yet to replace it because the various maori tribes that live in the city can't agree on what tree species to replace it with and who should do it. Years ago some students planted a tree on the summit one night as a replacement, the council dutifully removed it.
Then you have massive felling of trees in the amazon basin to the point where the local weather patterns are changing.
A single rock being pushed over means nothing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/20 10:41:03


 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






cadbren wrote:
Part of me says they're rocks and they fell over


And the Grand Canyon is just some hole in the ground. Seriously, go look at pics of the park and realize that it is a unique geological phenomena that took millions of years to form and not some guys gravel driveway.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord







Wait, so because things you like are being destroyed it's ok to destroy other things?

This formation has formed over a period of hundreds of millions of years, a deciduous tree can take a couple of generations to reach maturity. In terms of light loss, while the loss of a tree can be a tragedy it is really up to an arborist to decide. As for your hill tree, the person who damaged that tree presumably was caught and fined? It's weird that your Council has taken so long to replace it. Why did the person cut it down? Was it a native tree? If you care so much perhaps you should start haranguing your councilors.

How can you get that angry about human intervention in terms of trees, yet describe what happened as "rocks falling over"?. It's perplexing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/20 12:00:25


   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




cadbren wrote:
 d-usa wrote:

Those are a few, just in case you actually don't know and are not just posting in mock-shock about what others are posting.



Part of me says they're rocks and they fell over, so what. Part of me thinks these guys are idiots who are a disgrace to the spirit of the scouting movement.
The thing is, just in my immediate area several old trees have been cut down to give people more light and because they make a mess as the usual excuses go. These were old oak trees and an old native tree (puriri) that were there long before the houses were even built, let alone the morons that moved in. One of the volcanic cones in my city is called One Tree Hill. Until a protester ringbarked it forcing the council to cut it down, there was a lone prominent tree on the top that could be seen from much of the city, it was a city landmark - after 13 years the council has yet to replace it because the various maori tribes that live in the city can't agree on what tree species to replace it with and who should do it. Years ago some students planted a tree on the summit one night as a replacement, the council dutifully removed it.
Then you have massive felling of trees in the amazon basin to the point where the local weather patterns are changing.
A single rock being pushed over means nothing.


Sorry to see you have morons in your part of the world, also, but laws protecting natural treasures exist for a reason. If idiots like these guys went unpunished, others like them would not be constrained from doing the same thing because they have no respect. Multiply that enough times and all the formations in Goblin Valley are destroyed, not to be replaced. It's a lot like someone going into an amazing park service cave and destoying the formations in there then saying they did it because the destroyed formations were unsafe.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 d-usa wrote:
cadbren wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:


No, they knocked over what they said in retrospect was a loose rock, and one they had zero authority, right, or training to knock over.

Training? There are places that teach people how to push over loose rocks? Really? I mean I'm no expert but they seemed to know how to push over that rock, maybe they had training.



There are even university courses on that, some people even get to put a "doctor" in front of their name if they know a lot about rocks!

But yes, there is lots of training for this particular event. Training to examine and study these particular rock formations, to see if they are becoming unstable or if they are staring to pose a risk to others. Training on how to either preserve them or how to secure the area around them so that they can fall over naturally. Training on how to knock them over in a way that minimize the disruption to anything else in that area.

Those are a few, just in case you actually don't know and are not just posting in mock-shock about what others are posting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 reds8n wrote:
...so..... err... different department then ?


I was assuming that you were talking about the government shutdown.

State parks are funded and staffed by individual states, so they were not affected by the shutdown. Only federal parks were closed.



The state government opened the Federal parks here also. This shows what a big deal parks are here in Utah and how these guys are most likly in line for a severe hosing:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/11/us/utah-parks-reopen/

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/20 17:09:57


 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






cadbren wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:


No, they knocked over what they said in retrospect was a loose rock, and one they had zero authority, right, or training to knock over.

Training? There are places that teach people how to push over loose rocks? Really? I mean I'm no expert but they seemed to know how to push over that rock, maybe they had training.


As scouts they should have known better. It is a disgrace.

They didn't really look like scouts though did they, at least not like what scouts used to look like. What happened to outdoors types who were responsible? This was a bunch of fat couch potatoes mucking around.

Not really. My scout leader looked like those guys. Big but not unhealthy. And lets remember, you cant fix stupid, just bcause you where in a program doesnt mean you wont do stupid stuff

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Fixture of Dakka




 hotsauceman1 wrote:
cadbren wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:


No, they knocked over what they said in retrospect was a loose rock, and one they had zero authority, right, or training to knock over.

Training? There are places that teach people how to push over loose rocks? Really? I mean I'm no expert but they seemed to know how to push over that rock, maybe they had training.


As scouts they should have known better. It is a disgrace.

They didn't really look like scouts though did they, at least not like what scouts used to look like. What happened to outdoors types who were responsible? This was a bunch of fat couch potatoes mucking around.

Not really. My scout leader looked like those guys. Big but not unhealthy. And lets remember, you cant fix stupid, just bcause you where in a program doesnt mean you wont do stupid stuff


One of the things being discussed yesterday at my wife's scout leadership meeting was that these leaders must have had poor training since they weren't in uniform. If they had that level of training or paid attention to it, then perhaps they wouldn't have acted so stupidly. In all the times I led a cub scout meeting or outing, I was always in uniform. It's one of the first things a leader learns. You represent something while in that scout and should act appropriately.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Training? There are places that teach people how to push over loose rocks? Really? I mean I'm no expert but they seemed to know how to push over that rock, maybe they had training.


Geologists.


A single rock being pushed over means nothing.


And a whole bunch of them pushed over ruins a historic landmark forever and completely negates an entire ethos of the Scouts. That saying, and those analogous to it, is how everything bad starts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/20 18:55:59




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Made in us
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Everett, WA

Aaaaaaaaaand it just keeps getting better.

http://news.yahoo.com/man-toppled-ancient-rock-suing-disability-183757302--abc-news-topstories.html
Man Who Toppled Ancient Rock Suing for Disability

A Boy Scout leader who came under fire for pushing over an ancient boulder in a national park filed a suit last month claiming he was suffering permanent "disability" and "impairment" from an auto accident four years ago.

Glenn Taylor initially faced scrutiny after a video of him pushing over a Jurassic era rock formation in the Goblin Valley State Park in Utah went viral.

Taylor, a Boy Scout leader, told ABC News that he should have handled the incident differently but thought the boulder was dangerous and thought it would be safer to push it over.

"The Boy Scouts didn't teach me to do this," Taylor told ABC News. "Would I do it again? Yes, with a ranger standing there. That's what we should have done."

However Taylor is now facing additional scrutiny after it was revealed that he filed a suit claiming he has he endured "great pain and suffering, disability, impairment, loss of life" stemming from a 2009 car accident, according to ABC News affiliate KTVX-TV in Salt Lake City, Utah.

According to KTVX, Taylor said in the documents he has incurred an estimated $5,000 in medical related expenses.

Alan Macdonald, who is being sued by Taylor because it was his daughter who hit Taylor's car, told KTVX that he was "highly offended" by Taylor's actions.

"Somebody with a bad back who is disabled who can't enjoy life to me doesn't step up and push a rock right off its base," Macdonald said.

Calls to a number listed in Taylor's name and to his attorney were not immediately returned.

The Emery County Attorney's Office confirmed that it has been contacted by state park representatives and will review the case once an investigation is complete.
Oh, yes, the comments section is a fun read on this one.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/21 03:33:09


 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Relapse wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
cadbren wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:


No, they knocked over what they said in retrospect was a loose rock, and one they had zero authority, right, or training to knock over.

Training? There are places that teach people how to push over loose rocks? Really? I mean I'm no expert but they seemed to know how to push over that rock, maybe they had training.


As scouts they should have known better. It is a disgrace.

They didn't really look like scouts though did they, at least not like what scouts used to look like. What happened to outdoors types who were responsible? This was a bunch of fat couch potatoes mucking around.

Not really. My scout leader looked like those guys. Big but not unhealthy. And lets remember, you cant fix stupid, just bcause you where in a program doesnt mean you wont do stupid stuff


One of the things being discussed yesterday at my wife's scout leadership meeting was that these leaders must have had poor training since they weren't in uniform. If they had that level of training or paid attention to it, then perhaps they wouldn't have acted so stupidly. In all the times I led a cub scout meeting or outing, I was always in uniform. It's one of the first things a leader learns. You represent something while in that scout and should act appropriately.

At camps and outdoors stuff my scout leaders never wore their uniforms, said they where not conrductive towards outdoors stuff, they only wore it at certain times.

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Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





New York State

A real american hero, this guy, saving people from the dangers of rocks...

In all seriousness, it's absolutely disgraceful, that he would go into a place, set aside for all posterity for people to enjoy nature, and start destroying these rock formations to have a laugh and get some youtube videos. And then lie and claim it was in the public interest. I hope they throw the book at him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/21 03:56:45


   
Made in us
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Cant we throw the rock he toppled at him?

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

 Breotan wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaand it just keeps getting better.

http://news.yahoo.com/man-toppled-ancient-rock-suing-disability-183757302--abc-news-topstories.html
Man Who Toppled Ancient Rock Suing for Disability

A Boy Scout leader who came under fire for pushing over an ancient boulder in a national park filed a suit last month claiming he was suffering permanent "disability" and "impairment" from an auto accident four years ago.

Glenn Taylor initially faced scrutiny after a video of him pushing over a Jurassic era rock formation in the Goblin Valley State Park in Utah went viral.

Taylor, a Boy Scout leader, told ABC News that he should have handled the incident differently but thought the boulder was dangerous and thought it would be safer to push it over.

"The Boy Scouts didn't teach me to do this," Taylor told ABC News. "Would I do it again? Yes, with a ranger standing there. That's what we should have done."

However Taylor is now facing additional scrutiny after it was revealed that he filed a suit claiming he has he endured "great pain and suffering, disability, impairment, loss of life" stemming from a 2009 car accident, according to ABC News affiliate KTVX-TV in Salt Lake City, Utah.

According to KTVX, Taylor said in the documents he has incurred an estimated $5,000 in medical related expenses.

Alan Macdonald, who is being sued by Taylor because it was his daughter who hit Taylor's car, told KTVX that he was "highly offended" by Taylor's actions.

"Somebody with a bad back who is disabled who can't enjoy life to me doesn't step up and push a rock right off its base," Macdonald said.

Calls to a number listed in Taylor's name and to his attorney were not immediately returned.

The Emery County Attorney's Office confirmed that it has been contacted by state park representatives and will review the case once an investigation is complete.
Oh, yes, the comments section is a fun read on this one.




Okay, NOW does somebody still have a problem with me suggesting that this guy gets publicly flogged? He feigns physical disability but has no problem doing this. The man is disgusting. Get the torches and pitchforks, we need a good ol' fashioned serving of mob justice!

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


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Made in us
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USA

 reds8n wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
The real question here is, what the eff happened to the boy scouts since in time past, I was one? Cause back in my day, we did not roll thusly.
.


# Thanks Obama !



Honestly I was expecting a 'blame the gays' joke. I are disappoint.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





This guy is almost exactly what the caricature of Americans is in certain parts of the world, that we're fat and irreverent people who like to sue a lot.

His injury suit might have merit if he needed medical attention in the aftermath of the accident, but if he's attempting to argue he still needs medical attention, well he'll have a tough time arguing that when he a) had to hike up there, and b) pushed over geological formation.

As for pushing over the geological formation, it was dumb, counter to Boy Scout beliefs and policies, and is definitely something that carries at least a hefty fine, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a low level felony.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LordofHats wrote:


Honestly I was expecting a 'blame the gays' joke. I are disappoint.


I was gonna say, didn't the Boy Scouts just revise that policy and allow homosexuals? I've been out of the loop for a few years, but I thought I remembered hearing that.

There is a correlation there...and as we all know, correlation implies causation.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/21 06:50:23


 
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

Wow, those guys are complete arrogant jerks.
As it is I think that the one claiming disabilities should be punished a hell of a lot.

It is sad to see something so old and valuable destroyed by some arrogant idiots whom have no respect for the beauty of nature.

Im just glad that these are not true reprasentatives of the scouts.

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
cadbren wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:


No, they knocked over what they said in retrospect was a loose rock, and one they had zero authority, right, or training to knock over.

Training? There are places that teach people how to push over loose rocks? Really? I mean I'm no expert but they seemed to know how to push over that rock, maybe they had training.


As scouts they should have known better. It is a disgrace.

They didn't really look like scouts though did they, at least not like what scouts used to look like. What happened to outdoors types who were responsible? This was a bunch of fat couch potatoes mucking around.

Not really. My scout leader looked like those guys. Big but not unhealthy. And lets remember, you cant fix stupid, just bcause you where in a program doesnt mean you wont do stupid stuff


One of the things being discussed yesterday at my wife's scout leadership meeting was that these leaders must have had poor training since they weren't in uniform. If they had that level of training or paid attention to it, then perhaps they wouldn't have acted so stupidly. In all the times I led a cub scout meeting or outing, I was always in uniform. It's one of the first things a leader learns. You represent something while in that scout and should act appropriately.

At camps and outdoors stuff my scout leaders never wore their uniforms, said they where not conrductive towards outdoors stuff, they only wore it at certain times.


That's contrary to the training leaders get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
These guys keep digging themselves deeper with each comment they make. Now they say they had the kids playing "lava", jumping from formation to formation.
They are also claiming they are recieving death threats from around the world. I think they are effectivly finished with any position in scouting:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57016443-78/park-state-rock-goblin.html.csp

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/21 12:07:10


 
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Someone knocked over a rock and they get a felony conviction. Are you fething serious? Over knocking over a fething rock?

This was my initial response, and then I realized, they had no right to push the rocks over in the first place, they can claim they were doing it to protect the kids, but as Boy Scout leaders, they're supposed to follow Leave No Trace policies, the largest point of LNT is, "when you leave no one should be able to tell you were there." They fethed up, they needlessly destroyed rock formations that were not a danger to anyone, they deserve whatever punishment they get.

Edit: For the "they were in uniform comments". Scout leaders are trained that there is your "Formal Uniform" and your "field uniform" the first is the whole kit and kaboodle with the shirt the shorts the high knee socks, etc... the second is basically t-shirt, scout shorts, scout socks, etc... While these guys probably didn't receive good training (if they were trained at all), the uniform isn't wholly indicative about it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/21 12:27:33


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Relapse wrote:


One of the things being discussed yesterday at my wife's scout leadership meeting was that these leaders must have had poor training since they weren't in uniform. If they had that level of training or paid attention to it, then perhaps they wouldn't have acted so stupidly. In all the times I led a cub scout meeting or outing, I was always in uniform. It's one of the first things a leader learns. You represent something while in that scout and should act appropriately.

While you're supposed to uphold moral conduct at all times, there's something about putting a uniform on to emphasise what it is you represent and believe in. Scouting as I understand it was created partly as a response to idle youth, to teach them discipline, give them direction, make them an asset to their community rather than a liabilty. While not absolutely necessary, the uniform helps build a sense of belonging and pride in your group, and is an outward display of discipline by requiring various standards to be met in presentation.
I know lifestyles don't always allow it, but there are far too many fat people and discipline is hardly thick on the ground either. In general I mean, not just the scouts. Those leaders failed on both counts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/21 21:09:06


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
Geological vandalism should be punished ruthlessly.
They should be stoned to death, preferably with the rock they vandalised.
That'd learn 'em


Sounds like a retroactive Darwin award solution.

To those who don't realize, this area is a national monument to the rock formations, to the artistry of God or Nature depending on your POV.
My wife, not exactly a tree hugger, freaked out when she saw this. She's been there several times. Her first reaction was shoot them in the feet and leave them there as a warning to others, but she'll go with prison time.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Fixture of Dakka




 Frazzled wrote:
 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
Geological vandalism should be punished ruthlessly.
They should be stoned to death, preferably with the rock they vandalised.
That'd learn 'em


Sounds like a retroactive Darwin award solution.

To those who don't realize, this area is a national monument to the rock formations, to the artistry of God or Nature depending on your POV.
My wife, not exactly a tree hugger, freaked out when she saw this. She's been there several times. Her first reaction was shoot them in the feet and leave them there as a warning to others, but she'll go with prison time.


I love how on one hand they are saying the rock was loose, and on the other hand they say they discovered it while playing lava. The game lava involves jumping from one rock to another, or in these guys case having their scouts jump from one formation to another, damaging things that have been there since practically the dawn of time and putting scouts at risk of falling under one of these boulders if it did honestly come loose.
These guys are fairly screwed.


Just checked the local news and it comes as no surprise that these chuckleheads were booted from their leadership positions. Now we see if they get criminal charges or simply fined a hefty amount, modifying their bank accounts.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865588805/Boy-Scouts-remove-leaders-involved-in-toppling-Goblin-Valley-rock.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:
An interview with the dumbass putting out the lawsuit:

http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_7578.shtml

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/21 23:24:30


 
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

 Frazzled wrote:
 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
Geological vandalism should be punished ruthlessly.
They should be stoned to death, preferably with the rock they vandalised.
That'd learn 'em


Sounds like a retroactive Darwin award solution.

To those who don't realize, this area is a national monument to the rock formations, to the artistry of God or Nature depending on your POV.
My wife, not exactly a tree hugger, freaked out when she saw this. She's been there several times. Her first reaction was shoot them in the feet and leave them there as a warning to others, but she'll go with prison time.


Damn Frazzled, your wife be scary!

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
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Edit: Ninja'ed a long time ago.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/22 23:09:24


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Fixture of Dakka




It looks now like the dumbasses are getting ready to sue anyone they can over the posting of their video, citing "copyright violations".

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57034653-78/video-hall-copyright-wednesday.html.csp
   
 
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