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The USA have alledgedly been spying on the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel. If it's true, one has to ask, why?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24651975

I thought this sort of thing went out with 'Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy'? It does bring to mind some delicious images of gritty 50's Spy Movies though.

I thought the USA spies on everyone. Doesn't really surprise me.

I guess not, but if true it shows a remarkable lack of tact by the US Govt. After all, it seems as though Obama needs all the Allies he can get at the moment...

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
I guess not, but if true it shows a remarkable lack of tact by the US Govt. After all, it seems as though Obama needs all the Allies he can get at the moment...

For what?

Yeah I can't really bring myself to care. It is a big power spying on people. It happens. If they used it to hurt Germany or something then it'd be an issue, but as it is it's just a big power spying on people around them, asking them to stop that would be...well, pointless.

Yes, and France, Mexico, Brazil, it's own citizens; etc, etc.

Atleast we are not denmark those guys are crazy when it comes to spying

On one hand, yes, all governments spy on all other governments. This sort of thing really shouldn't come as a surprise. Conversely though, the fact that it doesn't come as a surprise does not necessarily mean that it is acceptable. The Germans in particular are a bit touchy on this sort of thing, as they were still fairly recently under the boot of the Stazi, and remember all too well what 'surveillance in the name of state security' can entail.

Ultimately, this is a relatively minor incident. A small hiccup and something interesting to talk about for a short while in the halls of power.

As a historian though, one tends to note that major world history, shifts, and trends are often made or caused by groups of such hiccups. The US and Europe have been steadily binding ourselves together tighter and tighter for the last sixty years or so. I am personally inclined to believe that over the course of the next hundred and fifty or so years, the end result will be either the arisal of a new superpower to rival the US (the United States of Europe, as it were), or an eventual amalgamation of the US & the EU.

Naturally, the US Government worries more about the former, and as such, attempts to keep extensive tabs on the slow machinations, intrigues, and realpolitik of Europe. Getting caught out to this extent though, may well turn out to be one of those hiccups that shifts the potential outcome a notch or two towards an independent European power. We're already seeing calls for European databanks and cloud servers based away from the US for security reasons. There's also been symbolic (if largely devoid of significance) handwaving in the European Parliament to exclude the US from the SWIFT data exchange. I would also be surprised if the respective intelligence agencies of Europe were not even now reviewing American access to their files and operational methods (as US knowledge of such things aids them in circumventing European security).

The interesting thing to note will be whether this stagnates the free trade talks currently underway between the US and the EU. If that one becomes a dead duck, I'd say the odds of eventual amalgamation would be severely compromised.

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
The USA have alledgedly been spying on the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel. If it's true, one has to ask, why?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24651975

I thought this sort of thing went out with 'Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy'? It does bring to mind some delicious images of gritty 50's Spy Movies though.

Why? Because its what they get paid the big bucks to do. The Germans and French spy onthe US and US corporations all the time. So does the UK.
Welcome to the real world.

Oh, I love being patronised... Gives me shudders.....

It was a rhetorical question really. I mean, what have the Germans got that the mighty US doesn't?

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
I mean, what have the Germans got that the mighty US doesn't?

Decent cars?

Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans are made here. There are giant honking VW and Mercedes plants here. What are you talking about?

 Frazzled wrote:
Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans are made here. There are giant honking VW and Mercedes plants here. What are you talking about?

Well, the people who designed them certainly weren't from here.

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Oh, I love being patronised... Gives me shudders.....

It was a rhetorical question really. I mean, what have the Germans got that the mighty US doesn't?

Just about everyone in the halls of power of the West have been worried about the German industrial juggernaut for the last hundred plus odd years. The EU was originally designed by the French as a bridle and harness to control it and cease it from ever posing a risk to them again.
Unfortunately for them, the latest economic crisis, combined with a reunified Germany and a shaky economy at home mean that the horse is now riding the jockey. Germany is now the main industrial and economic power of Europe once again, and is beginning (if shakily and slowly) to reassert the political power that goes with that.

The thing is, for all the carping on that some people do about the US bearing the burden of world police and guarding European borders, the fact remains that the US prefers it that way. Europe is the only place in the world technologically on par with America, and whilst the militaries there remain weak and European politics remain restricted to backstabbing in Brussels, the US is in a position of unparalleled world dominance. But that will likely not remain the state of affairs forever, governments are always in flux. And if a new world rival is to arise out of Europe over the next century, Germany is where the power will be, both economically and industrially. France is too internally weak, and Britain too tied to America and suspicious of the continent.

The result being that the US keeps an especially close eye on Germany.

Actually, the person that rescued the VW Beetle and made it hugely popular was English..

From Wikipedia

'The re-opening of the factory is largely accredited to British Army officer Major Ivan Hirst.[27] Hirst was ordered to take control of the heavily bombed factory, which the Americans had captured. His first task was to remove an unexploded bomb that had fallen through the roof and lodged itself between some pieces of irreplaceable production equipment; if the bomb had exploded, the Beetle's fate would have been sealed. Hirst persuaded the British military to order 20,000 of the cars,[13] and by March 1946 the factory was producing 1,000 cars a month, which Hirst said "was the limit set by the availability of materials". During this period, the car reverted to its original name of Volkswagen and the town was renamed Wolfsburg. The first 1,785 Type 1s were made in 1945.'

Edit: Sorry, posted after Ketara made some fine points about the whole 'Spying' thing. The above comment seems a little out of place now.

Intelligence agencies are bound to keep tabs on prominent world leaders, it’s what they are there for. The BND almost certainly has a large file on David Cameron and President Obama as well.

 Wilytank wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans are made here. There are giant honking VW and Mercedes plants here. What are you talking about?

Well, the people who designed them certainly weren't from here.

You'd better research that more. Much of the design work is done in Cali.

 Wilytank wrote:
I thought the USA spies on everyone. Doesn't really surprise me.

Everyone can, does, and should spy on everyone else. Just be good about it.

Well, if Merkel has nothing to hide then she shouldn't have any problems amiright?

You are supposed to add "Citizen" at the end of that line.

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
The USA have alledgedly been spying on the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel. If it's true, one has to ask, why?

As a general rule, everyone collects intel on everyone else. Just about the only exceptions to this, to my knowledge is that we (the US) don't "spy" on the UK or Canada, due to us being such chummy mates and all, we have intel sharing agreements in place, etc.

Of course we spy on Canada. They have the Strategic Maple Syrup Reserves.

This Just In:

Countries Spy On Each Other

I bet Hollywood can make a buck or two on this revelation.

Oh wait:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_James_Bond_films

 kronk wrote:
Of course we spy on Canada. They have the Strategic Maple Syrup Reserves.

Maybe we just solved the Syrup heist.

Peckish US Spies decided to make off with it.

No surprise here, group A spies on group B who spy on group A and group C spies on both A and B while A and B spy on group C.

What?

And group C and A are the same group!

Silence is golden, Mr. Kronk.

*shoots Kronk with silenced pistol made of gold in super-expensive Parisian hotel room*

I find it incredibly naive of people to think that governments around the world aren't spying on each other.

 marv335 wrote:
I find it incredibly naive of people to think that governments around the world aren't spying on each other.

They're not supposed to get caught doing it.

Everyone spies on everyone, nations only complain about it when they catch someone.

Seriously. If you think the French and Germans are not spying on us, you're either incredibly naive, or simply have no concept of how foreign intelligence services work.