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 .Mikes. wrote:
Am I the only person who doesn't think Malifaux is complex?

no, you gots me too

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

Not a fan of Collodi getting the ax (or really removing any of the old masters).

The 10T page didn't get cached so we don't know the masters there. We know Brewmaster is out, which opens up a slot for potentially a new master, but more likely I think Collodi will go 10T. The last two books gave him Asian themed puppets that were dual NB/10T but didn't really have a home under any master in 10T. I think he'll find himself quite comfortable there.

The other missing masters seem pretty expected from the plot. Nico got Justiced and Ramos is in prison after Ironsides stabbed him in the back. Lilith has apparently been replaced by her sister, which seems like a wash. Story wise, the new Von Schtook just felt like an obvious Nico stand in anyway, so the only one who seems to actually be gone is apparently Ramos.

The masters who lost a faction were the ones they mainly never really got working in both factions anyway. I'm pretty happy where they landed and the mention of new hiring rules makes me suspect we'll be picking things more via keyword than faction anyway. Time will tell I suppose.

FWIW, my guess for 10T is:

Shen Long
Asami
Misaki
McCabe
Lynch
Mei Feng*
Yan Lo*
Collodi

 LunarSol wrote:
[so the only one who seems to actually be gone is apparently Ramos

Note that Arcanists got Hoffman now which fills the Construct-master niche that Ramos originally held and perhaps he'll be getting more summoning in addition to the buffing he had before to take up Ramos's niche.

I’m hoping that they keep the basic rules, consistency in phrasing for how mechanics work (eg: prevention vs reduction vs ignore of damage and things that disallow one or more), and clean up the mess new content has created in doing something different from what already exists (moving flying piglet summoning to the taxedermists) or creating broken combos (obsidian oni just dropping scrap for Mei Feng rather than being constructs and making Levi super OP).

As for masters looks like they’re trying to focus masters Nico, Ramos, and Lilith all had overlap mechanically with other masters in their factions or lack a single viable focus. Nico was the generic summoner that outshone everyone else, Lilith was melee and terrain, and Ramos was SPIDERS! Weak, squishy, spiders. And, um, M&SU I guess? But the rest of the arcanists ran constructs as well or better and the other M&SU masters ran M&SU more interestingly. I just hope they release (even as a limited one and done) rules for “legacy” masters that have been dropped from the story.


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 Absolutionis wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
[so the only one who seems to actually be gone is apparently Ramos

Note that Arcanists got Hoffman now which fills the Construct-master niche that Ramos originally held and perhaps he'll be getting more summoning in addition to the buffing he had before to take up Ramos's niche.

Of course Ramos was just so great at buffing I forgot he could do that...

 ChaoticMind wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
[so the only one who seems to actually be gone is apparently Ramos

Note that Arcanists got Hoffman now which fills the Construct-master niche that Ramos originally held and perhaps he'll be getting more summoning in addition to the buffing he had before to take up Ramos's niche.

Of course Ramos was just so great at buffing I forgot he could do that...

Quite the opposite. Ramos was the summoner and Hoffman was the buffer. Ramos is more of a spider-spammer in M2E and barely has any buffing.

 ChaoticMind wrote:
I just hope they release (even as a limited one and done) rules for “legacy” masters that have been dropped from the story.

Just reading the descriptions, it sounds like the existing masters are all getting pretty significant revamps. A number of them sound completely redone to the point where I wouldn't count on this. As I said, it really seems like there's only Ramos who doesn't have an obvious replacement the old model could stand in for anyway.

I'm liking the potential changes to Lady J and Sonni, which are the only two masters I currently play. I just got a Nellie crew and am painting it up, so I can't comment on the sound of the changes there, but it looks ont he surface like she got more of a shake up.

This is very intriguing. I’ve been interested in Malifaux for a long time and have quite a few models, but never fully got into it. I do feel it’s a bit overly complicated, I do like a complex skirmish game but I think it’s a bit far, so some simplification would be appreciated.

Malifaux 1st edition was even more complicated than what we have now in M2E. Even the most basic models often had triggers and multiple actions they could take.

Not sure what to think about that.
While I appreciate an infusion of 'new' and '3.0' to the game, I definitely won't appreciate losing some masters or even having to buy tons of cards again.
I mean, I only just now got the card pack for the latest book. :/

So, I'm a bit on the fence about this and I would really appreciate Wyrd giving us something official, but so far, there's nothing yet.


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Wow, somebody posted the leak over on the official forum, and instead of replying, they just killed the topic (and my reply) without a trace.

So this is how they want to play it? O.o

Good luck trying to erase stuff on the interwebs, and keeping a lid on it like that ...

So are the masters not on that list out of the game, or just dead in the fluff? The only master I’ve owned/played is Lilith.

As long as i can use my models it's cool with me (guessing/hoping that I can use Niicodem as von Schtook).
The theme, fluff and unique abilities make Malifaux good, so a big shake up will keep thing interesting without releasing new models.

 AduroT wrote:
So are the masters not on that list out of the game, or just dead in the fluff? The only master I’ve owned/played is Lilith.

Nobody knows yet.
That's why it's so annoying that Wyrd would rather try and stomp out the rumours instead of making an official announcent, now that the news is out.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 ChaoticMind wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
[so the only one who seems to actually be gone is apparently Ramos

Note that Arcanists got Hoffman now which fills the Construct-master niche that Ramos originally held and perhaps he'll be getting more summoning in addition to the buffing he had before to take up Ramos's niche.

Of course Ramos was just so great at buffing I forgot he could do that...

Quite the opposite. Ramos was the summoner and Hoffman was the buffer. Ramos is more of a spider-spammer in M2E and barely has any buffing.

Sorry, I tried to use sarcasm on the internet, my bad.

You are correct in your analysis of Ramos, my comment was meant to highlight the problem he has in that other Arcanist have more to do than just their 1/turn iconic action. I always felt the others obviously had something they could do while with Ramos I had 2AP and a 0 that were hard to put to use.

 .Mikes. wrote:
Am I the only person who doesn't think Malifaux is complex?

Maybe - I do think its at a good level - but its is (for me) very hard work especially if you donlt play regulairly - we might play games months apart! 2nd ed is much much better than 1st - for me at least

Interested to see what 3rd does - 2nd works fine for the most part and I doubt the games group I play will initally invest big and we donlt travel much so can just carry on with 2nd.

VIk's being the same is....odd as they did play very differently - well at least for me.

 AduroT wrote:
So are the masters not on that list out of the game, or just dead in the fluff? The only master I’ve owned/played is Lilith.

There are 4 missing that aren't currently 10T masters and likely to show up on that list. I forget the specifics of the last book, but most of them are likely out of the game:






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Malifaux is a little too complicated, but it shouldn't be simple either. There are a lot of models in the game and they all have unique rules that add up to a lot of bloat. Where I think the game really gets in trouble is the models that don't have a well defined purpose. They just have a lot of abilities that do a lot of things but don't really have a "primary" ability or well defined role.

I'm very curious about the new intuitive hiring. One of my big gripes in the game is that there's really no thematic synergy between models that encourages different builds with different masters. Everything just seems to come down to a few faction all stars that define the game, with only a few reasons for masters to run something different.

 .Mikes. wrote:
Am I the only person who doesn't think Malifaux is complex?

What games are you playing that are more complicated? Star Fleet Battles?

 .Mikes. wrote:
Am I the only person who doesn't think Malifaux is complex?

Quite possibly. There's a lot of fiddly gradients of similar effects/abilities that produce different interactions, which can be cut down. There's also an absurd number of units to balance around at this point. Neverborn alone has like 70+ models, plus other out of faction hires, etc. That's a ton of interactions to account for and future proof when designing.

Given how you can tailor your list to the available schemes/strats, it also gives a big advantage to those who own them all, and makes new players feel like they have to know everything to compete. It sounds like they're taking a page from Warmachine and going more towards theme groups to remove some option paralysis. I'm cool w Illuminated no longer being the de-facto sole Neverborn beater, or Rotten Belles in basically every Resser list.

Officially announced:

https://www.wyrd-games.net/news/2018/7/25/announcing-third-edition

I was wrong on Collodi....

Wyrd wrote:We aren't reinventing the wheel with Malifaux Third Edition. Instead, we're improving gameplay by ironing out a few kinks, streamlining some systems, reducing the number of conditions, and more. All of this is to ensure that the focus is on the fun while still keeping the layers of strategy that we all enjoy.

Hiring is also getting a facelift, as models will be hired by Keyword, allowing for more thematic crew building around your (new or existing) Masters. Speaking of Masters, you'll also be able to hire multiple Masters in a single crew.

All of M3E's updated stat cards and its rules will be available at launch for free.

With streamlined rules, an intuitive hiring system, and much more, there's never been a better time to cross through the Breach and into the world of Malifaux!

On net, they're streamlining and cleaning up for 3E. This is a good thing for where gaming has gone in the past few years. Focus more on the high level play, than the memorization of details.

If anyone is at GenCon, I'd be interested in your thoughts on the beta they're demoing there.

I like the idea of what they're trying to do.

As someone with a fairly large Malifaux collection that's never used it for its intended purpose, I can get behind this.

Liking the new artwork they've shown off as well.

Big plus is they mention models will continue to be made in plastic!

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Big plus is they mention models will continue to be made in plastic!

I was honestly terrified they'd be going the route of pre-built gummy plastic like in TOS.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Big plus is they mention models will continue to be made in plastic!

I was honestly terrified they'd be going the route of pre-built gummy plastic like in TOS.

Is it bad? I have a burning man core set coming at some point. I got the Krampus set at Christmas and thought it was OK. Then again, I've always thought the detail on their plastics was meh, with blobby cloth/fur/hair.

 .Mikes. wrote:
Am I the only person who doesn't think Malifaux is complex?

It's complex in the sense that there is a lot going on, but I sure wouldn't call it complicated. If Complexity were a sliding scale I'd put Malifaux right in the middle.

Back OT: Will have to see how this plays out, but the use of the word "streamline" among other things has me concerned. If Wyrd can pull this off, and leave a deep, decision-based game, great.

There's an example of the Rasputina card on the site. Doesn't look like the streamlining is going to be too bad at least on the Master level. It seems the majority of the changes will encourage or even force people to play with thematic keyworded crews as opposed to the best-in-faction objective runners and beatsticks we have now.

So yep. My only Master is no longer tournament legal barring TO using optional rules.

I am sure most TOs will default to the 4 dead/missing master being completely fine, and Wyrd is still giving them brand new rules.

I imagine excluding them will be a much rarer occurrence in the community at large, and the only events of note that will are large official Wyrd events

So It's confirmed, Ramos is gone. Well that's one third of my Malifaux collection invalidated.

and don't think the dead mans hand stuff counts, if it can't be played in tournaments then the local Malifaux crowd will have no interest in using it, or playing against it. And wyrd are very unlikely to support them past an initial half hearted stat release.

This is a bad start for Wryd, certainly all the talk so far seems to be pretty negative. I guess my wallet will join Ramos in a prison cell for third edition.

(This is another example of why settings are MUCH better for wargames than evolving stories)

New layout is pretty good?



We don;t play tournaments so the Dead Mans hand will be fine for us.

I don’t mind evolving stories, but you shouldn’t delete legacy characters based on it. I prefer the WM method of keeping everyone around.