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Good art and cool models are subjective distinctions and cannot be the basis for an argument.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
My assertion is, and has been, that such imagery has a negligible affect on women entering the hobby, and focusing on such imagery is a big waste of time.

Only if your intention is to get more women to enter the hobby. If your intention is to get good art and cool models, however…

"Good art and cool models" was not the basis for this thread. The entire premise for this thread was that a picture from the Inquisition Codex was objectifying to women, and that such objectification is off-putting to women. Quotes from the first few pages of the thread:

"The fixation that geek culture has with semi naked women cheapens us all."

"That's not what annoys me, its the sheer childishness of women almost always being portrayed as little more than sexual objects."

"Uneven depiction of genders in games is a big problem...."

"Why are the women often sexualized and the men power fantasies directed at men too? Wouldn't it be a good idea to create a product that is possibly aimed at 100% of the possible target market and not just roughly 50%, especially when the pool of possible buyer is already small enough in a certain niche (in addition GW seems to sell fewer boxes every year). "

"It's intentionally geared toward men and therefore shuts out people who could potentially enjoy this awesome hobby the same way others do. Rampant portrayal of women as sexual objects is a result of this and contributes to this being a male dominated hobby when it doesn't have to be."

Nobody in the thread said that they thought the initial picture that started this discussion was badly done or poor artwork. The entire objection was to a woman holding a chainsword simultaneously wearing a dress that showed some cleavage.

I thought the recent revelation of the female Predator from Prodos' AvP kickstarter is a particularly interesting case of miniature design in the themes of this thread.

So, despite being a humanoid-but-clearly-inhuman alien lifeform, the female predator's main anatomical distinction from her male counterparts is not only a sizeable pair of breasts, but obvious and prominent cleavage. I don't know who designed the concept for this miniature, but it does seem incredibly silly. Yes, movie aliens always look human because they're played by humans in rubber latex suits, but after you've gone through the work of making the Yautja's iconic monstrous face to try to elide that similarity, it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy. Doubly so since you're doing it in a format where you could just as easily have sculpted or imagined a design as outlandish as you liked without having to adhere to the realities of film or TV.

Saldiven wrote:
"Good art and cool models" was not the basis for this thread.

I know why I created this thread, and I know it was not primarily to discuss on how to get more women entering the hobby. If it had been, I would have name the thread “How to get more women to enter the hobby”.

Saldiven wrote:
The entire premise for this thread was that a picture from the Inquisition Codex was objectifying to women, and that such objectification is off-putting to women. Quotes from the first few pages of the thread:

Why don't you quote the first message ? You know, mine ?

Saldiven wrote:
Nobody in the thread said that they thought the initial picture that started this discussion was badly done or poor artwork.

I did said repetitively that the cleavage was detrimental to the art, and went to great length to explain why. Maybe you've missed it.

I think that it is inevitable that as more women show interest in wargaming, the hobby will adapt to accommodate women, this has its positives and negatives...

Positives:
- The notion that the hobby is for neck-beards will diminish
- More consumers = more money for retailers = growth of market
- More people to talk to and get to know

Negatives:
- As the hobby becomes increasingly popular it will be in the public eye far far more frequently so will have to become more PC to avoid negative press
- May create a division in the market (e.g. in gaming far more females play app games whilst males tend to play the console games)

To be honest I'm not too bothered if the war-gaming industry adapts to accommodate women, I'm not that big on the wargaming anymore, high prices and lack of originality has put me off.

$5* says that the Predatrix is wearing a thong in the back.

I still giggle at the image of predator babies nursing. How the hell do they get a good latch without lips?


*Metaphorical money only. It's either a thong or a Chun Li butt flap that somehow conforms to her buttocks.

How?

katyperry.in.that.stupid.candyland.video.gif

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I thought the recent revelation of the female Predator from Prodos' AvP kickstarter is a particularly interesting case of miniature design in the themes of this thread.

So, despite being a humanoid-but-clearly-inhuman alien lifeform, the female predator's main anatomical distinction from her male counterparts is not only a sizeable pair of breasts, but obvious and prominent cleavage. I don't know who designed the concept for this miniature, but it does seem incredibly silly. Yes, movie aliens always look human because they're played by humans in rubber latex suits, but after you've gone through the work of making the Yautja's iconic monstrous face to try to elide that similarity, it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy. Doubly so since you're doing it in a format where you could just as easily have sculpted or imagined a design as outlandish as you liked without having to adhere to the realities of film or TV.

First, let me say that I'm not all that impressed by the miniature (it's not so much that it's bad, I simply find it extremely underwhelming given the "premium" price). That disclaimer out of the way, this brings up a very important issue with any representation of females in a game where it is the avatar of the player.

Let's suppose, for the moment, instead of the above version, they have a truly exotic, utterly alien creature for the female. Let's further suppose you shell out the big bucks (sorry, last mention) for the game and want your (female) significant other/child/coworker/shipmate/whatever to play. She's interested in the playing the Predator side (clearly being the best side), so the box pops open, she picks up the fem Predator and...

And now there are several possible reactions, including but not limited to;
-"Why aren't there any girl Predators?" (she doesn't recognize the truly alien creature as a female at all),

-"Soooo... the girl is the super ugly one. Greaaaaat."

-"Oh cool. The female is a truly original and alien concept that has no commonality with humans."

I'll leave it to the reader to presume likelihoods. My point is that when one designs a miniature that will be the player's representation on the board, with the intention of selling to both to men and women, it does not seem intuitive that one would make the female dramatically dissimilar to an actual human female. Granted I have not conducted studies to that effect.

However, it is my experience in gaming that a non-trivial percentage of females interested in playing RPGs, MMOs, other assorted Video Games and table top games will gravitate to the recognizably female avatar. With a pronounced tendency to pick the "cutest" option.

Moreover, to say "it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy" seems to rather beg the opposite question: what's wrong with breasts?

Remember, the Predator is a guy in a suit, with an emphasis on guy. With the exception of some facial bits, a Predator is entirely similar in physiology to a human male.

It would seem the natural counterpoint to wanting an alien looking female is for the female gamer to ask "what's wrong with having the female actually look like me?"

Seriously now, that fem Predator looks like she could be a cosplayer that just walked off of Spot me Girl's Hot Chicks with Abs page. (For those that imagine the writers of that particular entity are primarily interested in attracting the male gaze... they really aren't. Oh, how they aren't.)

Again, this is all just discussion and not meant to be a specific defense of that particular model. Just illustrating the perils and pitfalls inherent in designing female models. Especially when there is a single model that is "the chick"*.

*Note that one obvious solution is to not have so many smurfette races, but that's a different problem.

 Azazelx wrote:
How?

katyperry.in.that.stupid.candyland.video.gif

Que?



I'm not clicking on a Katy Perry video just because she's hot and talented.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Buzzsaw, you make a good point, but clearly she wearing the clubbing/cocktail version of Yautja armor and not the sporty support version..?

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I thought the recent revelation of the female Predator from Prodos' AvP kickstarter is a particularly interesting case of miniature design in the themes of this thread.

So, despite being a humanoid-but-clearly-inhuman alien lifeform, the female predator's main anatomical distinction from her male counterparts is not only a sizeable pair of breasts, but obvious and prominent cleavage. I don't know who designed the concept for this miniature, but it does seem incredibly silly. Yes, movie aliens always look human because they're played by humans in rubber latex suits, but after you've gone through the work of making the Yautja's iconic monstrous face to try to elide that similarity, it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy. Doubly so since you're doing it in a format where you could just as easily have sculpted or imagined a design as outlandish as you liked without having to adhere to the realities of film or TV.

First, let me say that I'm not all that impressed by the miniature (it's not so much that it's bad, I simply find it extremely underwhelming given the "premium" price). That disclaimer out of the way, this brings up a very important issue with any representation of females in a game where it is the avatar of the player.

Let's suppose, for the moment, instead of the above version, they have a truly exotic, utterly alien creature for the female. Let's further suppose you shell out the big bucks (sorry, last mention) for the game and want your (female) significant other/child/coworker/shipmate/whatever to play. She's interested in the playing the Predator side (clearly being the best side), so the box pops open, she picks up the fem Predator and...

And now there are several possible reactions, including but not limited to;
-"Why aren't there any girl Predators?" (she doesn't recognize the truly alien creature as a female at all),

-"Soooo... the girl is the super ugly one. Greaaaaat."

-"Oh cool. The female is a truly original and alien concept that has no commonality with humans."

I'll leave it to the reader to presume likelihoods. My point is that when one designs a miniature that will be the player's representation on the board, with the intention of selling to both to men and women, it does not seem intuitive that one would make the female dramatically dissimilar to an actual human female. Granted I have not conducted studies to that effect.

However, it is my experience in gaming that a non-trivial percentage of females interested in playing RPGs, MMOs, other assorted Video Games and table top games will gravitate to the recognizably female avatar. With a pronounced tendency to pick the "cutest" option.

Moreover, to say "it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy" seems to rather beg the opposite question: what's wrong with breasts?

Remember, the Predator is a guy in a suit, with an emphasis on guy. With the exception of some facial bits, a Predator is entirely similar in physiology to a human male.

It would seem the natural counterpoint to wanting an alien looking female is for the female gamer to ask "what's wrong with having the female actually look like me?"

Seriously now, that fem Predator looks like she could be a cosplayer that just walked off of Spot me Girl's Hot Chicks with Abs page. (For those that imagine the writers of that particular entity are primarily interested in attracting the male gaze... they really aren't. Oh, how they aren't.)

Again, this is all just discussion and not meant to be a specific defense of that particular model. Just illustrating the perils and pitfalls inherent in designing female models. Especially when there is a single model that is "the chick"*.

*Note that one obvious solution is to not have so many smurfette races, but that's a different problem.

The female predator realy could have had smaller breasts, it's turned a minature I would have buy in a heartbeat, and the game along with it into something I don't realy feel as much towards
I can't quite tell on the minature but i think even with big breasts they could have done more.

When it comes to the discussion at hand it isn't breasts that are the issue, it's that there are so few alternatives. Often no alternatives if your looking for something specific.
When it comes to minatures, one of the bigist issues is that females are not represented much and then when we get something, it's often getting towards silly and taking away positive agency.
Sometimes unfit clothing or a bad pose.
Sometimes it's a lack of females at all.

Wish it was Easyer to quote large posts on iPad D.:

But the Same can be said, why can't minatures look like me, to why I am here and why I desire alternatives.

Apart from the breasts I think the model is quite good considering. But I think the minature market is changing despite the thrashing.

Apple fox wrote:

Spoiler:

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I thought the recent revelation of the female Predator from Prodos' AvP kickstarter is a particularly interesting case of miniature design in the themes of this thread.

So, despite being a humanoid-but-clearly-inhuman alien lifeform, the female predator's main anatomical distinction from her male counterparts is not only a sizeable pair of breasts, but obvious and prominent cleavage. I don't know who designed the concept for this miniature, but it does seem incredibly silly. Yes, movie aliens always look human because they're played by humans in rubber latex suits, but after you've gone through the work of making the Yautja's iconic monstrous face to try to elide that similarity, it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy. Doubly so since you're doing it in a format where you could just as easily have sculpted or imagined a design as outlandish as you liked without having to adhere to the realities of film or TV.

First, let me say that I'm not all that impressed by the miniature (it's not so much that it's bad, I simply find it extremely underwhelming given the "premium" price). That disclaimer out of the way, this brings up a very important issue with any representation of females in a game where it is the avatar of the player.

Let's suppose, for the moment, instead of the above version, they have a truly exotic, utterly alien creature for the female. Let's further suppose you shell out the big bucks (sorry, last mention) for the game and want your (female) significant other/child/coworker/shipmate/whatever to play. She's interested in the playing the Predator side (clearly being the best side), so the box pops open, she picks up the fem Predator and...

And now there are several possible reactions, including but not limited to;
-"Why aren't there any girl Predators?" (she doesn't recognize the truly alien creature as a female at all),

-"Soooo... the girl is the super ugly one. Greaaaaat."

-"Oh cool. The female is a truly original and alien concept that has no commonality with humans."

I'll leave it to the reader to presume likelihoods. My point is that when one designs a miniature that will be the player's representation on the board, with the intention of selling to both to men and women, it does not seem intuitive that one would make the female dramatically dissimilar to an actual human female. Granted I have not conducted studies to that effect.

However, it is my experience in gaming that a non-trivial percentage of females interested in playing RPGs, MMOs, other assorted Video Games and table top games will gravitate to the recognizably female avatar. With a pronounced tendency to pick the "cutest" option.

Moreover, to say "it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy" seems to rather beg the opposite question: what's wrong with breasts?

Remember, the Predator is a guy in a suit, with an emphasis on guy. With the exception of some facial bits, a Predator is entirely similar in physiology to a human male.

It would seem the natural counterpoint to wanting an alien looking female is for the female gamer to ask "what's wrong with having the female actually look like me?"

Seriously now, that fem Predator looks like she could be a cosplayer that just walked off of Spot me Girl's Hot Chicks with Abs page. (For those that imagine the writers of that particular entity are primarily interested in attracting the male gaze... they really aren't. Oh, how they aren't.)

Again, this is all just discussion and not meant to be a specific defense of that particular model. Just illustrating the perils and pitfalls inherent in designing female models. Especially when there is a single model that is "the chick"*.

*Note that one obvious solution is to not have so many smurfette races, but that's a different problem.

The female predator realy could have had smaller breasts, it's turned a minature I would have buy in a heartbeat, and the game along with it into something I don't realy feel as much towards
I can't quite tell on the minature but i think even with big breasts they could have done more.

When it comes to the discussion at hand it isn't breasts that are the issue, it's that there are so few alternatives. Often no alternatives if your looking for something specific.
When it comes to minatures, one of the bigist issues is that females are not represented much and then when we get something, it's often getting towards silly and taking away positive agency.
Sometimes unfit clothing or a bad pose.
Sometimes it's a lack of females at all.

Wish it was Easyer to quote large posts on iPad D.:

But the Same can be said, why can't minatures look like me, to why I am here and why I desire alternatives.

Apart from the breasts I think the model is quite good considering. But I think the minature market is changing despite the thrashing.

You've made quite an excellent point. Not the point you were making directly, that is, but rather the bit in bold.

A particular point: not that the model has breasts, but the size of the breasts on a 28mm model (mind you, in real life those breasts are approximately the size of a split lentil), this is enough to put you entirely off the game.

Quite simply put, why would any rational businessperson intentionally try and please a market share that exhibits such a trait? If Prodos or GW or what-have-you saw that comment, would they say "How can I make a model that this person will buy?" Unlikely; far more likely is they would say "that person's preferences are so stringent that it is counterproductive to try to please them."

Tell me, did you throw money at Raging Heroes' Toughest Girls of the Galaxy kickstarter campaign? Their campaign is often chastised, but the simple fact is that they are making so many hero models, from the shamelessly pandering to the completely asexual, from nude to totally encased, that there is surely something that will be at least marginally acceptable. Bombshell Babes? Damsels of Darkmyre? Kingdom Death:Monster?

I want there to be more variety of female miniatures, so I've backed campaigns on Kickstarter to help get companies that make female miniatures that I like into the market. Over the last few years I've spent well over a thousand dollars, which represents a very sizable chunk of my gaming budget, in supporting these projects.

It's entirely fine to say that you don't like any of the projects I'm backing. You don't have to like what I do, but it is incumbent on you to support what you want to see and encourage the makers that you think are getting it right. Because the surest way to have no voice is to sit on the sidelines and state how turned off you are by female miniatures that come close, but just miss the mark.

Now all this may sound somewhat confrontational, I don't mean to be combative. I'm simply exhausted by this conversation; now, when it has never in the history of this hobby been easier for businesses to launch, for new mini lines to be made, so little is done that would be actually helpful. Find the green shoots and nurture them. If a company makes one or two models you like, buy them. Show them off and ask the company to make more like them.

If it helps....pretty much all of the xenomorphs are female. They have no obvious female features but according to the fluff they are all female in the absence or death or a queen can undergo several stages of molting and become a queen. Like bees the majority of the aliens population is female with a very few numbers of males acting as the inner hive guard (praetorians) or the very rare case of the male tyrant king.

 Buzzsaw wrote:

Moreover, to say "it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy" seems to rather beg the opposite question: what's wrong with breasts?
Remember, the Predator is a guy in a suit, with an emphasis on guy. With the exception of some facial bits, a Predator is entirely similar in physiology to a human male.
It would seem the natural counterpoint to wanting an alien looking female is for the female gamer to ask "what's wrong with having the female actually look like me?"

I think the issue, obviously is that the ginormous tits are enormous to the point where they just look silly. Even with lolheroicminiatureproportions taken into account. The lack of armour in this case is actually consistent with what the males wear, so a non-issue.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Que?
I'm not clicking on a Katy Perry video just because she's hot and talented.

There's a video where she squirts cream out of the nipples on her bra. It's not sexually suggestive at all.
But it would possibly work for feeding baby predators...

I like that female predator mini, but the boobs are a little too big.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:

Moreover, to say "it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy" seems to rather beg the opposite question: what's wrong with breasts?
Remember, the Predator is a guy in a suit, with an emphasis on guy. With the exception of some facial bits, a Predator is entirely similar in physiology to a human male.
It would seem the natural counterpoint to wanting an alien looking female is for the female gamer to ask "what's wrong with having the female actually look like me?"

I think the issue, obviously is that the ginormous tits are enormous to the point where they just look silly. Even with lolheroicminiatureproportions taken into account. The lack of armour in this case is actually consistent with what the males wear, so a non-issue.

Agreed. The male predators in the movies I remember wear no shirts or torso armor aside a kind of thin webbing and the harness that the energy weapon attaches to. As for the rest, they wear gauntlets, greaves, a mask and an armored codpiece with a belt. From what I can make out of the sculpt in the picture I posted, the female is wearing comparative amounts of clothing, so I don't consider that an issue at all. The visual design of the yautja has always been tribal and with hints towards an adherence to tradition, so all good there.

Going off something Buzzsaw said, the comment he made of the potential female customer taking a female predator and saying "The girl is the super ugly one?" struck me, because to me, all yautja are ugly. It's their defining character trait from the first movie onwards. I don't remember if it was Arnie or Danny Glover, but the first thing a film protagonist says when he sees one unmasked is "You are one ugly mother-----". As such, I see the opposite situation. With those breasts, the female predator is the "pretty one".

 Buzzsaw wrote:

Apple fox wrote:

Spoiler:

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I thought the recent revelation of the female Predator from Prodos' AvP kickstarter is a particularly interesting case of miniature design in the themes of this thread.

So, despite being a humanoid-but-clearly-inhuman alien lifeform, the female predator's main anatomical distinction from her male counterparts is not only a sizeable pair of breasts, but obvious and prominent cleavage. I don't know who designed the concept for this miniature, but it does seem incredibly silly. Yes, movie aliens always look human because they're played by humans in rubber latex suits, but after you've gone through the work of making the Yautja's iconic monstrous face to try to elide that similarity, it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy. Doubly so since you're doing it in a format where you could just as easily have sculpted or imagined a design as outlandish as you liked without having to adhere to the realities of film or TV.

First, let me say that I'm not all that impressed by the miniature (it's not so much that it's bad, I simply find it extremely underwhelming given the "premium" price). That disclaimer out of the way, this brings up a very important issue with any representation of females in a game where it is the avatar of the player.

Let's suppose, for the moment, instead of the above version, they have a truly exotic, utterly alien creature for the female. Let's further suppose you shell out the big bucks (sorry, last mention) for the game and want your (female) significant other/child/coworker/shipmate/whatever to play. She's interested in the playing the Predator side (clearly being the best side), so the box pops open, she picks up the fem Predator and...

And now there are several possible reactions, including but not limited to;
-"Why aren't there any girl Predators?" (she doesn't recognize the truly alien creature as a female at all),

-"Soooo... the girl is the super ugly one. Greaaaaat."

-"Oh cool. The female is a truly original and alien concept that has no commonality with humans."

I'll leave it to the reader to presume likelihoods. My point is that when one designs a miniature that will be the player's representation on the board, with the intention of selling to both to men and women, it does not seem intuitive that one would make the female dramatically dissimilar to an actual human female. Granted I have not conducted studies to that effect.

However, it is my experience in gaming that a non-trivial percentage of females interested in playing RPGs, MMOs, other assorted Video Games and table top games will gravitate to the recognizably female avatar. With a pronounced tendency to pick the "cutest" option.

Moreover, to say "it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy" seems to rather beg the opposite question: what's wrong with breasts?

Remember, the Predator is a guy in a suit, with an emphasis on guy. With the exception of some facial bits, a Predator is entirely similar in physiology to a human male.

It would seem the natural counterpoint to wanting an alien looking female is for the female gamer to ask "what's wrong with having the female actually look like me?"

Seriously now, that fem Predator looks like she could be a cosplayer that just walked off of Spot me Girl's Hot Chicks with Abs page. (For those that imagine the writers of that particular entity are primarily interested in attracting the male gaze... they really aren't. Oh, how they aren't.)

Again, this is all just discussion and not meant to be a specific defense of that particular model. Just illustrating the perils and pitfalls inherent in designing female models. Especially when there is a single model that is "the chick"*.

*Note that one obvious solution is to not have so many smurfette races, but that's a different problem.

The female predator realy could have had smaller breasts, it's turned a minature I would have buy in a heartbeat, and the game along with it into something I don't realy feel as much towards
I can't quite tell on the minature but i think even with big breasts they could have done more.

When it comes to the discussion at hand it isn't breasts that are the issue, it's that there are so few alternatives. Often no alternatives if your looking for something specific.
When it comes to minatures, one of the bigist issues is that females are not represented much and then when we get something, it's often getting towards silly and taking away positive agency.
Sometimes unfit clothing or a bad pose.
Sometimes it's a lack of females at all.

Wish it was Easyer to quote large posts on iPad D.:

But the Same can be said, why can't minatures look like me, to why I am here and why I desire alternatives.

Apart from the breasts I think the model is quite good considering. But I think the minature market is changing despite the thrashing.

You've made quite an excellent point. Not the point you were making directly, that is, but rather the bit in bold.

A particular point: not that the model has breasts, but the size of the breasts on a 28mm model (mind you, in real life those breasts are approximately the size of a split lentil), this is enough to put you entirely off the game.

Quite simply put, why would any rational businessperson intentionally try and please a market share that exhibits such a trait? If Prodos or GW or what-have-you saw that comment, would they say "How can I make a model that this person will buy?" Unlikely; far more likely is they would say "that person's preferences are so stringent that it is counterproductive to try to please them."

Tell me, did you throw money at Raging Heroes' Toughest Girls of the Galaxy kickstarter campaign? Their campaign is often chastised, but the simple fact is that they are making so many hero models, from the shamelessly pandering to the completely asexual, from nude to totally encased, that there is surely something that will be at least marginally acceptable. Bombshell Babes? Damsels of Darkmyre? Kingdom Death:Monster?

I want there to be more variety of female miniatures, so I've backed campaigns on Kickstarter to help get companies that make female miniatures that I like into the market. Over the last few years I've spent well over a thousand dollars, which represents a very sizable chunk of my gaming budget, in supporting these projects.

It's entirely fine to say that you don't like any of the projects I'm backing. You don't have to like what I do, but it is incumbent on you to support what you want to see and encourage the makers that you think are getting it right. Because the surest way to have no voice is to sit on the sidelines and state how turned off you are by female miniatures that come close, but just miss the mark.

Now all this may sound somewhat confrontational, I don't mean to be combative. I'm simply exhausted by this conversation; now, when it has never in the history of this hobby been easier for businesses to launch, for new mini lines to be made, so little is done that would be actually helpful. Find the green shoots and nurture them. If a company makes one or two models you like, buy them. Show them off and ask the company to make more like them.

No, I was on the fence about there kickstarter, and there was a model that they are producing that could have swung me into it.
When the game comes out I may or may not get it, when it comes down to it, I am looking for female models allmost entirely now, as I have many male models in most systems.

As for other kickstarters, I would say bombshell babes despite the name actuly nail it. For anything short of more specific needs thay have some great minis and I have everything but 1 from the kickstarter. Not perfect but getting there.
They have some sexy and have some realy great posed females in some nice clothes. And if they release more, or do another kickstarter in the future I would like to support them. I am actuly not that hard to please. But there are still massive issues in this hobby with sexism and I don't think it's even right to not stand up against issues.
To kickstarter I have put well into many projects, so I am supporting many up and comers.

There are females in the comic books.

They look like her. If they really wanted to do this one right, they would have gotten the human female that joined up with the Predators back in the day.

That "Female predator" should look more like a lizard, not so much with big mams, but with none, and maybe even have a different fighting style, such as a sniper rifle, or rockets, or something that they would be specialized in.

looked through the info on line, and haven't found much in terms of information on "Female" predators.


anyone else know of any?

I think that they would of been better off making more male predators instead of that stupid-looking female one.

 Grot 6 wrote:
They look like her. If they really wanted to do this one right, they would have gotten the human female that joined up with the Predators back in the day

I agree, seeing Machiko would be awesome. She would have to be so much smaller than the Predators to make it work, though..

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Moreover, to say "it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy" seems to rather beg the opposite question: what's wrong with breasts?

Oh, I'm a huge fan. I also think the size is a little ridiculous though; you don't really see a lot of female basketball players who look like that.

Perhaps they could have made us all happy by reducing the size of the boobs, and then adding another, smaller set under them, like a dog. Boobs, but clearly alien! We're all winners.

 Grot 6 wrote:
There are females in the comic books.
They look like her. If they really wanted to do this one right, they would have gotten the human female that joined up with the Predators back in the day.
That "Female predator" should look more like a lizard, not so much with big mams, but with none, and maybe even have a different fighting style, such as a sniper rifle, or rockets, or something that they would be specialized in.
looked through the info on line, and haven't found much in terms of information on "Female" predators.
anyone else know of any?

I'm only familiar with Machinko, who looks like Angelina Jolie for some reason.
I'm sure someone could track down the images of the Fempred from the comics or some such. There's some statues and such out there.

I actually don't take issue with the idea of the Prodos FemPred having a bikini for the reasons already discussed, or large breasts - like Ouze, I'm a fan of their work. It's just that these are too big. Like beyond pornstar almost into specialist pornstar territory.

 Ouze wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
They look like her. If they really wanted to do this one right, they would have gotten the human female that joined up with the Predators back in the day

I agree, seeing Machiko would be awesome. She would have to be so much smaller than the Predators to make it work, though..

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Moreover, to say "it seems like a cop-out to have the female of the species sport mammaries fit for Playboy" seems to rather beg the opposite question: what's wrong with breasts?

Oh, I'm a huge fan. I also think the size is a little ridiculous though; you don't really see a lot of female basketball players who look like that.

Perhaps they could have made us all happy by reducing the size of the boobs, and then adding another, smaller set under them, like a dog. Boobs, but clearly alien! We're all winners.

Hehe, I know this is meant as a joke, but that is a perfect example of what I was talking about.

"See honey, the females have two sets of breasts, just like dogs!"

"So... all the females are bitches, is that right?"

"Yes! I mean no. I mean, I'm sorry?"



On a more serious note I will say that with miniatures that I have where in pictures the breasts look huge, but in hand and on the table they seem fine. Given that the fem Predator is about the size of the twilight knight from KD (possibly even smaller), so I tend to doubt they are all that problematic. There was a picture in the KS thread of the "canon" fem predator... she's not exactly modestly endowed.

To echo the point Buzzsaw was making, this...



Is due for release by Hasslefree in the near future. For those who want more females, or more realistic females, this is the sort of thing you probably need to be ordering multiples of to send the message to those whose livelihoods depend on the sale of such items that this style is a good idea if they want to be able to afford an extra big turkey this year.

 Ouze wrote:
Perhaps they could have made us all happy by reducing the size of the boobs, and then adding another, smaller set under them, like a dog. Boobs, but clearly alien! We're all winners.

Like 40k daemonettes ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
a Chun Li butt flap that somehow conforms to her buttocks.

Yeah, I had to use greenstuff to fix that on the daughters of the flame I used as count-as for my DCA. Stupid.

[Edit]Actually, it seems it's neither :

You owe the internet five metaphorical dollars, Bob !

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Perhaps they could have made us all happy by reducing the size of the boobs, and then adding another, smaller set under them, like a dog. Boobs, but clearly alien! We're all winners.

Like 40k daemonettes ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
a Chun Li butt flap that somehow conforms to her buttocks.

Yeah, I had to use greenstuff to fix that on the daughters of the flame I used as count-as for my DCA. Stupid.

[Edit]Actually, it seems it's neither :

You owe the internet five metaphorical dollars, Bob !

TBH I expected the female predators to be so butch that they would be indistinguishable from the males. This mini is quite disappointing. I always thought of the Predator aliens like big cats in the sense that there is still sexual dimorphism but is is not as prominent as in homo-sapiens.

 azreal13 wrote:
To echo the point Buzzsaw was making, this...



Is due for release by Hasslefree in the near future. For those who want more females, or more realistic females, this is the sort of thing you probably need to be ordering multiples of to send the message to those whose livelihoods depend on the sale of such items that this style is a good idea if they want to be able to afford an extra big turkey this year.

now that looks right, and yes everyone support hassle free, they have some good stuff, i have dealt with them before




is another showing of what the style SHOULD be...

and please note, no SUPER STEROID FREAKs for men as well...

I noticed that GW make some awesome female Imperial Guard...

Yeah, I had to use greenstuff to fix that on the daughters of the flame I used as count-as for my DCA. Stupid.

is another showing of what the style SHOULD be...

I appreciate this is in the context of a poster's own opinion, but this sort of language is expressing a tone I felt needed picking up on.

There is no should or had to, or any other more definite statements that anyone cares to throw out, they should be "chose to" and "would like them to be"

Expressing a preference is one thing, expressing a preference in language that implies that to not share that preference, or to actively prefer the opposite, is wrong, is quite another. We are discussing a subjective matter with huge, and very personally defined, grey areas.

Again, to reiterate my point from earlier in the thread, and Buzzsaw's too (and possibly others) the best way to ensure miniatures in the style you prefer get made, or continue to get made, is to endorse them by making a purchase.

To buy models that you feel compelled to convert to better suit your tastes doesn't work, as that isn't any different from buying them and not touching them.

If a model isn't in production that is close enough to fit what you need, then it is up to you and your principles.


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I'm also a little surprised that the size of some Predator baps has garnered such attention, yet this new release (spoilers due to size and element of NSFWness


Hasn't even featured in the thread.

Personally, Brother Vinni's work has made me feel more uncomfortable than pretty much anything else I've seen, except maybe the Kingdom: Death Wet Nurse, in terms of subject matter/portrayal of women.

It must sell in sufficient numbers to be worth doing, so evidently there is a market, but we are firmly in "I don't agree with what you say, but will defend with my life your right to say it" territory for me.

 MetalOxide wrote:
TBH I expected the female predators to be so butch that they would be indistinguishable from the males. This mini is quite disappointing. I always thought of the Predator aliens like big cats in the sense that there is still sexual dimorphism but is is not as prominent as in homo-sapiens.

In the lore, which may or may not be canon, they do indeed have breasts and are substantially stronger and larger than the male Predators we have seen so far. They do not normally engage in the hunt, though.

 Ouze wrote:

 MetalOxide wrote:
TBH I expected the female predators to be so butch that they would be indistinguishable from the males. This mini is quite disappointing. I always thought of the Predator aliens like big cats in the sense that there is still sexual dimorphism but is is not as prominent as in homo-sapiens.

In the lore, which may or may not be canon, they do indeed have breasts and are substantially stronger and larger than the male Predators we have seen so far. They do not normally engage in the hunt, though.

Ah, that's pretty interesting, thanks for the info.

 azreal13 wrote:
Expressing a preference is one thing, expressing a preference in language that implies that to not share that preference, or to actively prefer the opposite, is wrong, is quite another. We are discussing a subjective matter with huge, and very personally defined, grey areas.

Well, I feel like my nun girls not using some kind of supernatural mean to expose more of their butt is not that much a gray area. Because it's fairly established that nuns don't like to expose their butts, and nuns don't like witchcraft either .

 azreal13 wrote:
Again, to reiterate my point from earlier in the thread, and Buzzsaw's too (and possibly others) the best way to ensure miniatures in the style you prefer get made, or continue to get made, is to endorse them by making a purchase.

To buy models that you feel compelled to convert to better suit your tastes doesn't work, as that isn't any different from buying them and not touching them.

First, I didn't buy those models, it was a present from my mother. Second, there is a big difference between converting them and not converting them : they look more like how I want them to look afterward. And, that may be some huge revelation to you, but it's the reason behind most conversions. Usually people don't convert their models to make them more PC, or to get more women in the hobby, or whatever. I know I don't.

 azreal13 wrote:
If a model isn't in production that is close enough to fit what you need, then it is up to you and your principles.

Let me think about it. There is almost no trollblood with a military cap (except Gunbjornn, of course), and as far as I know no trollblood with a cigar. So, should I “follow my principle” or whatever, and not buy any trollblood, or should I just have fun sculpting cigars and caps with green stuff ?
The answer is in my blitzer :

 azreal13 wrote:

Spoiler:

I was curious, so I went on their website. It appears they have a whole section dedicated to girls (other categories are sci-fy, renaissance, fantasy, …), with a subcategory called “victim girls” !
My favorite “victim girl” is “Ukrainian Slavegirl” because… well, because how the hell are we supposed to notice that she is Ukrainian, since she's just walking completely naked ? The only explanation for the title is that the sculptor has weird fetishes.
“Actions girls” also have some utterly ridiculous (NSFW) models :

Also strangely, some perfectly decent models :


Well, shuffling through those models was quite funny ! Thanks for the good laugh, Azreal.


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 easysauce wrote:
and please note, no SUPER STEROID FREAKs for men as well...

Do you mean nothing like

or


I love

Too bad she'll integrate better in a space marines army than in a sisters of battle army.