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... holy. freakin'. moley. How on earth do GW justify the prices of some (well, almost all) of what they're suggesting? What are they trying to do, put off their customers?

Lol!

Like clockwork, another poster starts a thread about the insanity that is GW pricing!

Absolutely daft in some cases huh?

I still think that most of the troop boxes represent ok value, but when you start to look at vehicles, elite choices and characters, it does start to make ones eyes bleed and wallet cramp.

Have a look at some other games, X wing and Infinity have a very low buy-in, Mierce are in the process of developing Darklands, which is very expensive on a per mini basis, but plays at a much lower model count, and has some absolutely gorgeous sculpts, or explore some of the other mini manufacturers producing alternate models.

You can do cheaper than GW, you can do much nicer quality for the same money, if you find both, please let me know!

GW prices high? That's a shocker. But overall, if you are looking to lay out some serious cash, unless GW is the only game in town, you can usually go to a local retailer and they will give you between 10% up to 25% off a large bulk order if you are looking for a bunch of stuff all at once. Otherwise, during Christmas, it's typically not the gamer that is making the purchases anyway, but a friend or family member who is just looking for something their loved one wants to play. Perfect opportunity to capitalize.

Alternatively, GW games have a much larger following and it's easier to find a variety of opponents and competitive events, which makes it more appealing to a lot of people.

Overall, I've said it before and I'll say it again, wargaming is a cheap hobby. My other hobbies tend to run me a lot more money than what I invest in wargaming.

GW pricing is allowing an unprecedented number of alternatives to break in to the market. For that reason alone I'm happy that they haven't decided to use their size to undercut smaller manufacturers (if that's even feasible for them).

This argument is somewhat diluted by my tears when I look at re-buying some of the stuff I sold last year to get some small 40k games in with friends, but I still *sob* stand by it *sniff*.

What bugs me about the gift guides aren't the prices of the products (people should be numb to those by now), but the amount they suggest you buy. Like a few years ago about Tomb Guard. "Four or five of these boxes will make a great addition to a Tomb Kings army!"

Who are they trying to kid? Seriously?

Well, I'm not a player (I model and paint instead) but after me and my kids put together some Imperial Guard and some goblins I had knocking about, we dropped in the local store to see what's what. And we watched a demo game in progress and, well, maybe they'd like to play at home. It'd keep us all good for a few days.

So... sixty pounds for a complete game, well that seemed pricey given the contents of the box, but I'd have bought it as a family present.
But, £36 for some paints and glues? Fifty pounds (minimum) for a centrepiece? Hero minis starting at £12?

I can only imagine a young person giving the list to their parents and saying 'get this', and they blindly hand it in at their GW store along with their credit card, without actually being aware of what they're buying...
Me, I'm not mean but times are hard, and I'm combing eBay and Amazon for the essentials and we'll put a game together for a whole lot less- with the armies we really want.

Us as customers should know about the high prices. In the gift guide they cant just hide the prices.

From the gift guide i saw the value looked ok, in respect to normal pricing.

The storm wing box gives you a free stormtalon, its better than most of the battleforces

 azreal13 wrote:

You can do cheaper than GW, you can do much nicer quality for the same money, if you find both, please let me know!

http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=2471

£20 for 40 28mm late medieval infantry designed by the same people who did most of the old Empire range. That's about 75-80% cheaper than GW's Empire and they are considerably nicer as well (and blessedly free of GRIM DARK).

Straight ScI Fi and fantasy plastics are a more difficult proposition but given time I'm sure that there will be plastics that eclipse GW's offering on every level given the quality of the resins that people like Prodos are producing.

GW charges what it does because it needs to in order to keep its revenues stable. It would be better for all concerned if GW decided to actually make some good rules for a change, possibly even try and retain customers, but as it is high pricing seems to be their preferred option.

 plastictrees wrote:
GW pricing is allowing an unprecedented number of alternatives to break in to the market. For that reason alone I'm happy that they haven't decided to use their size to undercut smaller manufacturers (if that's even feasible for them).

I think the same, really think we're experiencing (or very close to) something of a golden age of gaming. I don't think these other games taking off is just down to GW dragging its heels while regarding itself as the only player in the industry, and is probably as much about the internet serving as a focal point for fans of smaller company's games (so that they can reach a 'critical mass' of survivability more easily), but it's undoubtedly a major factor. If GW was the same kind of company it was in the 90's, in terms of its dynamism and approach to new ideas, the other guys wouldn't stand a chance... But, I'm glad it's not the case as a monopoly is generally never good for the customer.

Feel sorry for anyone without a lot of funds who is a fan of GW's stuff however, I know there is always ebay and discount sellers, but those prices get pushed up by the high RRP too and as unit sales have gone down that won't help.

 Palindrome wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

You can do cheaper than GW, you can do much nicer quality for the same money, if you find both, please let me know!

http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=2471

£20 for 40 28mm late medieval infantry designed by the same people who did most of the old Empire range. That's about 75-80% cheaper than GW's Empire and they are considerably nicer as well (and blessedly free of GRIM DARK).

Straight ScI Fi and fantasy plastics are a more difficult proposition but given time I'm sure that there will be plastics that eclipse GW's offering on every level given the quality of the resins that people like Prodos are producing.

GW charges what it does because it needs to in order to keep its revenues stable. It would be better for all concerned if GW decided to actually make some good rules for a change, possibly even try and retain customers, but as it is high pricing seems to be their preferred option.

I'll get nailed to a tree by my dangles for admitting this publicly on a Wargame forum, but I [whisper]dont really like a lot of the Perry's stuff.[/whisper]

But your point is sound, aesthetics aside, it is pretty difficult to argue that they aren't comparable quality for substantially less money.

The introduction of Finecast and the start of the Hobbit line really saw their prices balloon quite suddenly. GW used to be one of the only manufacturers producing boxes of high quality 28mm plastics but now there are a lot of other manufacturers doing boxes of plastic miniatures cheaper than GW; Mantic and Wargames Factory for SF and Fantasy, loads and loads of stuff for historical, Perry, Warlord, etc.

 azreal13 wrote:

I'll get nailed to a tree by my dangles for admitting this publicly on a Wargame forum, but I [whisper]dont really like a lot of the Perry's stuff.[/whisper]

While I wouldn't proscribe a Mussolini-esque death for such a statement, nevertheless I would suggest you need to take an extensive look at the Perry miniatures website in order to correct your opinions.

 Palindrome wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

You can do cheaper than GW, you can do much nicer quality for the same money, if you find both, please let me know!

http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=2471

£20 for 40 28mm late medieval infantry designed by the same people who did most of the old Empire range. That's about 75-80% cheaper than GW's Empire and they are considerably nicer as well (and blessedly free of GRIM DARK).

Straight ScI Fi and fantasy plastics are a more difficult proposition but given time I'm sure that there will be plastics that eclipse GW's offering on every level given the quality of the resins that people like Prodos are producing.

GW charges what it does because it needs to in order to keep its revenues stable. It would be better for all concerned if GW decided to actually make some good rules for a change, possibly even try and retain customers, but as it is high pricing seems to be their preferred option.

God bless the perry twins! Few products have satisfied so much for so long as their plastic box sets, and I don't play any historical games. Sculpting is good, bits and options are plentiful, casting is top notch, assembly is quick and simple, all of their figures are in a consistent proportioning and scale, and price is amazing! They are great fodder for conversions. The Perry's do it right.

weeble1000 wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

You can do cheaper than GW, you can do much nicer quality for the same money, if you find both, please let me know!

http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=2471

£20 for 40 28mm late medieval infantry designed by the same people who did most of the old Empire range. That's about 75-80% cheaper than GW's Empire and they are considerably nicer as well (and blessedly free of GRIM DARK).

Straight ScI Fi and fantasy plastics are a more difficult proposition but given time I'm sure that there will be plastics that eclipse GW's offering on every level given the quality of the resins that people like Prodos are producing.

GW charges what it does because it needs to in order to keep its revenues stable. It would be better for all concerned if GW decided to actually make some good rules for a change, possibly even try and retain customers, but as it is high pricing seems to be their preferred option.

God bless the Perry twins! Few products have satisfied so much for so long as their plastic box sets, and I don't play any historical games. Sculpting is good, bits and options are plentiful, casting is top notch, assembly is quick and simple, all of their figures are in a consistent proportioning and scale, and price is amazing! They are great fodder for conversions. The Perry's do it right.

Don't keep it in, tell us what you really think!

Yeah - I still have some of the old Perry Empire plastics - and I still think that they are about a million times better than the current run of GW Empire minis.

Next time I put together a Mordheim warband, I am getting a few boxes of Perry models.

The Auld Grump

I started on a 2000 point Empire army using nothing but the Perrys War of the Roses line. I managed to get 2 boxes painted before 8th ed hit and I lost all enthusiasm for WHFB.

If they ever make a plastic Sudan campaign British box I will be sorely tempted to make myself a new Praetorian army.

 Palindrome wrote:
It would be better for all concerned if GW decided to actually make some good rules for a change, possibly even try and retain customers, but as it is high pricing seems to be their preferred option.

This is the part that boggles me. If GW had rules of the same quality as their minis and fluff they would utterly dominate the market. I just don't get why they seem so unconcerned with this idea- it's not like it wouldn't make them more money.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:


Next time I put together a Mordheim warband, I am getting a few boxes of Perry models.

The Auld Grump

That's the reason I bought my first set of perry plastics. The War of the Roses Mercenaries set is very versatile. You've got guns, crossbows, and pikes, and a decent range of armor types. Lots of different head options. I made two warbands and a blood bowl team out of it and I still mine the set for bits.

weeble1000 wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:


Next time I put together a Mordheim warband, I am getting a few boxes of Perry models.

The Auld Grump

That's the reason I bought my first set of perry plastics. The War of the Roses Mercenaries set is very versatile. You've got guns, crossbows, and pikes, and a decent range of armor types. Lots of different head options. I made two warbands and a blood bowl team out of it and I still mine the set for bits.

That was the very box that I was thinking of.

The Auld Grump - a scrawny and ill-kempt lot....

Kinda wish the Perry's made plastic samurai. The metals are okay but I'm afraid of mixing them with Wargames Factory plastics. Anyone know how well they mix in since we're on the subject?

fishy bob wrote:What bugs me about the gift guides aren't the prices of the products (people should be numb to those by now), but the amount they suggest you buy. Like a few years ago about Tomb Guard. "Four or five of these boxes will make a great addition to a Tomb Kings army!"

Who are they trying to kid? Seriously?

And it keeps getting worse. Those 4-5 boxes that they tell you you'll need for your army will probably be $60-$85 each now, depending on the army.

Admittedly I'm curious about the rumored Tau bundle that I guess they'll be revealing on the 16th, but I fully expect it to be $300+ so I'm not sure if I'll be getting one.

Chrissy_J wrote:I can only imagine a young person giving the list to their parents and saying 'get this', and they blindly hand it in at their GW store along with their credit card, without actually being aware of what they're buying...

Funnily enough that's exactly what GW plans on: rich parents blindly buying huge amounts of models for their whiny kids in a single purchase and then never coming back when the kid realizes he has to build and paint them all himself and they sit forgotten in a closet.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

You can do cheaper than GW, you can do much nicer quality for the same money, if you find both, please let me know!

http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=2471

£20 for 40 28mm late medieval infantry designed by the same people who did most of the old Empire range. That's about 75-80% cheaper than GW's Empire and they are considerably nicer as well (and blessedly free of GRIM DARK).

Straight ScI Fi and fantasy plastics are a more difficult proposition but given time I'm sure that there will be plastics that eclipse GW's offering on every level given the quality of the resins that people like Prodos are producing.

GW charges what it does because it needs to in order to keep its revenues stable. It would be better for all concerned if GW decided to actually make some good rules for a change, possibly even try and retain customers, but as it is high pricing seems to be their preferred option.

I'll get nailed to a tree by my dangles for admitting this publicly on a Wargame forum, but I [whisper]dont really like a lot of the Perry's stuff.[/whisper]

But your point is sound, aesthetics aside, it is pretty difficult to argue that they aren't comparable quality for substantially less money.

You're not alone. I can't fault how technically well sculpted their stuff is, but personally I don't go for that clinical level of detail, which is probably why historicals bore me to tears. I can accept less realistic proportions and less detail if its stylised in a way I enjoy, hence why I like GW's Vampire Counts more than Mantics Undead. Mantics Undead are, techically, better models propertionally and more realistic stylistically, but man they bore me to tears due to how generic they look. I'll take a horde of GW buttsniffer Ghouls any day.

I really, really hate the current plastic ghouls by GW - those exact figures were why I looked at Mantic in the first place.

Some of the Vampire Counts models make me want to crush them with a hammer. (Yeah, cause one legged zombies make such great draft horses.... Not.)

The Auld Grump

 Sidstyler wrote:
Kinda wish the Perry's made plastic samurai. The metals are okay but I'm afraid of mixing them with Wargames Factory plastics. Anyone know how well they mix in since we're on the subject?

fishy bob wrote:What bugs me about the gift guides aren't the prices of the products (people should be numb to those by now), but the amount they suggest you buy. Like a few years ago about Tomb Guard. "Four or five of these boxes will make a great addition to a Tomb Kings army!"

Who are they trying to kid? Seriously?

And it keeps getting worse. Those 4-5 boxes that they tell you you'll need for your army will probably be $60-$85 each now, depending on the army.

Admittedly I'm curious about the rumored Tau bundle that I guess they'll be revealing on the 16th, but I fully expect it to be $300+ so I'm not sure if I'll be getting one.

Chrissy_J wrote:I can only imagine a young person giving the list to their parents and saying 'get this', and they blindly hand it in at their GW store along with their credit card, without actually being aware of what they're buying...

I

Funnily enough that's exactly what GW plans on: rich parents blindly buying huge amounts of models for their whiny kids in a single purchase and then never coming back when the kid realizes he has to build and paint them all himself and they sit forgotten in a closet.

posted a comparison photo here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/561318.page

Its compared with the Ashigaru but they scale very well. That said I wish perry would do plastic Samurai too. There miniatures would be of much better quality than WGF I think.

Nice. lol, I even looked at that thread the other day and completely forgot about it.

Its a bit sparse atm. Times when I feel well enough to do any painting or modeling is a little sparse latley. I will post up a comparison to the WGF samurai once they are built.

Chrissy_J wrote:
... holy. freakin'. moley. How on earth do GW justify the prices of some (well, almost all) of what they're suggesting? What are they trying to do, put off their customers?

It's justified because thousands apon thousands of customers continually buy their product at those prices because they want the product and are willing to pay.
Different people see worth in different things and they spend their money accordingly, what is wrong with people being ok with spending GW prices for things that they want?

I think the thing I really dislike about these kind of threads is that they are essentially saying (and sometimes bluntly saying); "you are an idiot if you pay GW prices". Why do people feel the need to degrade other people's hobby and what they choose to spend their hard earned cash on?

I like GW products. I've been buying them for 20+ years. I buy them from an actual GW store because that's where I game, paint and get support for my hobby. There are plenty of products from GW that aren't worth the asking price to me. So I don't buy them and don't have them in my army. What I don't do is go around telling people that it's far too much and they shouldn't buy those products- if they want to spend the money then great!

If you think it's overpriced, don't buy it.

Plenty of alternatives around these days, gamers have never been more spoilt for choice, but most would still choose to spend £140 on a single unit of witch elves.

Hobbies are expensive, you should see what I payed for a duck hunting boat.

Wow, I had tried to weather the price increase, but I just logged on to GWprime's website this morning thinking of grabbing a couple more boxes of raptors for my Nightlords army... Then I found that they have gone up to $55 from the $33 I paid for them *litterally* less than a month ago. Terminators up to $75, bike squad up to $50, predator up to $83, land raider up to $110, basic chaos marine tac squad up to $62 and khorne bezerkers up to $62...

Those are increases of 66%, 50%, 20%, 23%, 25%, and 67.5% respectively, which was something like happening overnight to me.

When did this business go down?

At the very least, a lot of independent retailers and online retailers have yet to adjust prices on old stock as of yet. I'd jump on that post haste.

You're not looking at the australian site are you, flint13? That often happens to US people- only for the aussies to come in and show that that's what they pay.