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 R3con wrote:
Hobbies are expensive, you should see what I payed for a duck hunting boat.

You're complaining? You should see what I paid for my underground concrete bunker. That Uranium isn't going to enrich itself, you know.

I really hate these kind of threads. They never go any place good and it's always the same arguments repeated ad nauseum.

Games Workshop is doing what it always does and what will always continue to do until the day it finally closes its doors - charge the absolute most money that they possibly can for as little product as possible.

Yet every time one of these threads is created, the same cast of characters always shows up. First there's Mr OMGWTF Are These Prices - he usually says something like " these prices are just outrageous, I mean I was fine paying $50 for a codex but $60 is just too much! ".

Then Mr Junkie comes in. He will complain about the latest price hike but because he's addicted to plastic crack he will pay for it anyways. Usually you will see these guys ranting and raving about the latest price hike one thread, and the next one will be talking about the latest crap they bought from GW.

And it wouldn't be a GW price complaint thread without an appearance by Mr Irrelevant. No one really knows what this guy's major malfunction is, but he's guaranteed to swoop in and poo poo away any complaints about prices by comparing GW games prices to that of some other completely unrelated and irrelevant hobby from collecting classic cars to fishing to yachting or whatever.

Last but most certainly not least, is Mr Apologist. In his eyes GW can do no wrong, and the latest price hike is still not even close to what these figures are worth. Besides most of you heathens are barely even worthy of looking at a GW game, much less playing one.

 Flint13 wrote:
Wow, I had tried to weather the price increase, but I just logged on to GWprime's website this morning thinking of grabbing a couple more boxes of raptors for my Nightlords army... Then I found that they have gone up to $55 from the $33 I paid for them *litterally* less than a month ago. Terminators up to $75, bike squad up to $50, predator up to $83, land raider up to $110, basic chaos marine tac squad up to $62 and khorne bezerkers up to $62...

Those are increases of 66%, 50%, 20%, 23%, 25%, and 67.5% respectively, which was something like happening overnight to me.

When did this business go down?

At the very least, a lot of independent retailers and online retailers have yet to adjust prices on old stock as of yet. I'd jump on that post haste.

You are looking at the Australian prices. It's okay everyone, time to set your clocks again.

... how much flak for being a dumb@ss would I catch for admitting maybe yes?

 Flint13 wrote:
... how much flak for being a dumb@ss would I catch for admitting maybe yes?

None, it happens regularly (thus my clock comment)

 Flint13 wrote:
... how much flak for being a dumb@ss would I catch for admitting maybe yes?

This is the internet, and on the internet you do not admit.

To everyone saying these threads are a waste of time and that GW are a company of course they want to make money and that people still buy it anyway you're missing one key point there.

Yes people are still buying it at these prices but year on year less and less people are buying GW products. They are bleeding sales in a market where everyone else is experiencing massive growth.

More and more people are voting with their wallets, more and more people are saying enough is enough and fewer and fewer vows never again to buy GW are being forgotten when the next new shiny thing comes along.

 Lorizael wrote:

Chrissy_J wrote:
... holy. freakin'. moley. How on earth do GW justify the prices of some (well, almost all) of what they're suggesting? What are they trying to do, put off their customers?

It's justified because thousands apon thousands of customers continually buy their product at those prices because they want the product and are willing to pay.
Different people see worth in different things and they spend their money accordingly, what is wrong with people being ok with spending GW prices for things that they want?

I think the thing I really dislike about these kind of threads is that they are essentially saying (and sometimes bluntly saying); "you are an idiot if you pay GW prices". Why do people feel the need to degrade other people's hobby and what they choose to spend their hard earned cash on?

I like GW products. I've been buying them for 20+ years. I buy them from an actual GW store because that's where I game, paint and get support for my hobby. There are plenty of products from GW that aren't worth the asking price to me. So I don't buy them and don't have them in my army. What I don't do is go around telling people that it's far too much and they shouldn't buy those products- if they want to spend the money then great!

this, in its entirity. Imo the majority of gw kits are too expensive, i just don't feel the need to rage about it on the internet. But i'm glad that other people feel the need to insult others' hobbies - or even the hobbyists themselves.

Thankfully i think such opinions are demographically skewed and i would like to think the average wargamer doesn't sneer at people who collect 40k.

xruslanx wrote:
Thankfully i think such opinions are demographically skewed and i would like to think the average wargamer doesn't sneer at people who collect 40k.

Does the average wargamer not go on the internet, or interact with people in their stores or clubs?

We've got Flames of War players at my store that think Games Workshop is run by colossal idiots, and that their various games are dumb. One of them gave our little Friday night gaming group (they play Flames on Saturday) gak because we were playing 40k. These are guys that don't touch GW games, much like how some posters don't touch non-gw games.

xruslanx wrote:

 Lorizael wrote:

Chrissy_J wrote:
... holy. freakin'. moley. How on earth do GW justify the prices of some (well, almost all) of what they're suggesting? What are they trying to do, put off their customers?

It's justified because thousands apon thousands of customers continually buy their product at those prices because they want the product and are willing to pay.
Different people see worth in different things and they spend their money accordingly, what is wrong with people being ok with spending GW prices for things that they want?

I think the thing I really dislike about these kind of threads is that they are essentially saying (and sometimes bluntly saying); "you are an idiot if you pay GW prices". Why do people feel the need to degrade other people's hobby and what they choose to spend their hard earned cash on?

I like GW products. I've been buying them for 20+ years. I buy them from an actual GW store because that's where I game, paint and get support for my hobby. There are plenty of products from GW that aren't worth the asking price to me. So I don't buy them and don't have them in my army. What I don't do is go around telling people that it's far too much and they shouldn't buy those products- if they want to spend the money then great!

this, in its entirity. Imo the majority of gw kits are too expensive, i just don't feel the need to rage about it on the internet. But i'm glad that other people feel the need to insult others' hobbies - or even the hobbyists themselves.

Thankfully i think such opinions are demographically skewed and i would like to think the average wargamer doesn't sneer at people who collect 40k.

Don't you play at Warhammer World most of the time?

It wouldn't really allow you to encounter any sort of average wargamer in that environment.

Today, I realized that water is wet.

I mean, it was wet last year, but it's really wet now! So wet it's ridiculous.

When I was young, water wasn't nearly this wet.

 Polonius wrote:
Today, I realized that water is wet.

I mean, it was wet last year, but it's really wet now! So wet it's ridiculous.

When I was young, water wasn't nearly this wet.

Some of us remember what water was like before you even knew what wet was.

Haven't looked at the guide don't want this to happen.

Maybe NSFW


GW increasing prices again how unexpected!

 Alfndrate wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
Thankfully i think such opinions are demographically skewed and i would like to think the average wargamer doesn't sneer at people who collect 40k.

Does the average wargamer not go on the internet, or interact with people in their stores or clubs?

I'd wager no on the internet. Given even the total populations of Dakka, Warseer and other large wargaming message boards, no industry, even a niche one, could build such a large business around such a small customer base. Anecdotally, I meet more gamers that don't, and don't want to, interact on internet message boards for this exact reason.

Even amongst the different groups at my FLGS, they all show interest in games being played even if they don't play them. I've had historical gamers cheerfully talk to me about 40k in the days of Rogue Trader, but never denigrating me or my friend for playing 6th edition, and I've seen Warmachine games right next to 40k games with gamers from both happily chatting away, even about the games themselves. I had a DnD player come up to us playing Infinity and have a chat about the system and its cover mechanics.

From personal experience, the negativity between different player bases is an internet phenomenon. Aside from the occasional TFG, player bases in person seem quite happy to talk to each other like civil human beings.

 Flint13 wrote:
... how much flak for being a dumb@ss would I catch for admitting maybe yes?

The internet: You're doing it wrong.

It happens.

I just realized that I no longer know how long ago I last purchased GW stuff.... Two years ago, maybe?

If you don't like GW prices (and I don't) then buy something else (and I do). I would say that it was the only way that GW would learn... but I no longer think that - I now think that eventually they will price themselves into oblivion, and that Kirby will retire a wealthy man.

There are a lot of good alternatives out there, at much better prices and, in my opinion, better sculpts as well.

Reaper, Mantic, Perry... all have things that I like better than GW. (I will admit to a soft spot for GW orcs - I have used them in fantasy roleplaying games for a very long time - but the Mantic orcs are also good.)

And all are less expensive than GW.

So switch.

The Auld Grump

 Phobos wrote:
I really hate these kind of threads. They never go any place good and it's always the same arguments repeated ad nauseum.

Games Workshop is doing what it always does and what will always continue to do until the day it finally closes its doors - charge the absolute most money that they possibly can for as little product as possible.

Yet every time one of these threads is created, the same cast of characters always shows up. First there's Mr OMGWTF Are These Prices - he usually says something like " these prices are just outrageous, I mean I was fine paying $50 for a codex but $60 is just too much! ".

Then Mr Junkie comes in. He will complain about the latest price hike but because he's addicted to plastic crack he will pay for it anyways. Usually you will see these guys ranting and raving about the latest price hike one thread, and the next one will be talking about the latest crap they bought from GW.

And it wouldn't be a GW price complaint thread without an appearance by Mr Irrelevant. No one really knows what this guy's major malfunction is, but he's guaranteed to swoop in and poo poo away any complaints about prices by comparing GW games prices to that of some other completely unrelated and irrelevant hobby from collecting classic cars to fishing to yachting or whatever.

Last but most certainly not least, is Mr Apologist. In his eyes GW can do no wrong, and the latest price hike is still not even close to what these figures are worth. Besides most of you heathens are barely even worthy of looking at a GW game, much less playing one.

I should make this a picture of this so bad, because it is so true....

I mean, the hobby itself is expensive, hands down (First you have to get the miniatures You get primer, glue to put together the miniatures together, then items to clean them, ect., ect...). But the prices of the models are up to the people to see if they want them. If you do not like it, then do not buy and/or buy alternatives on the market, and look into other games. There are other games that are as good out there, or even better, but you have to be open-minded about it. It is one of the joys of Capitalism and competition in the market between each other, and that can be your protest to them is to buy from other companies and not buy from them at all or very little.


(unless you are a Communist, then you might believe everyone should be equal in the amount of points every person has with the same amount of price to each army. )

Irrelevant.

A toy soldier is not a boat, nor is it a sports car.

It is a little tiny bit of tin, epoxy, or plastic.

A pile of them should not cost as much as a boat, nor yet a sports car.

If you want to compare similar hobbies and interests, then fine.

But they are not similar, now are they?

Shall we instead compare GW prices to similar toys? To the same type of toys made by other companies?

Because then we will be comparing apples to apples, not apples to hippopotami.

When Mantic switched to resin they increased the number of models.

When GW switched to resin they increased the prices.

Or just plain stopped making the model at all.

When Reaper looked at the increasing cost of tin they started making models in plastic - and dropped the price of those plastics.

When GW looked at the increasing cost of tin they also started making models in plastic - and also dropped the price of those plastics.

Until they decided that they would make more money by charging the same amount for those plastics as they had for the metal models.

And increased their prices.

Seeing a pattern here yet?

And, you know... if you really want to compare this to boats and cars... how much has the price of cars and boats gone up when compared to inflation?

The Auld Grump

Yes, the prices are high. Comparing Killa Kans to Centurions (Roughly equal in mass, not so much in price) shows that GW is indeed doing their business as usual. But, outrageous as the prices may be, I will continue buying my CSMs because I am

 Phobos wrote:
addicted to plastic crack

As Phobos so artistically put it.

But then by that logic a Ferrari is the same as a ford focus ans should be priced accordingly, or a fine fountain pen the same as a biro.

At the end of the day they can charge what they like as long as people pay they are happy.

Daston wrote:
But then by that logic a Ferrari is the same as a ford focus ans should be priced accordingly, or a fine fountain pen the same as a biro.

At the end of the day they can charge what they like as long as people pay they are happy.

Except that GW is selling you a Ford Focus.

They keep telling you that it is a Ferrari, but it is still a Ford. Not a Ferrari, not a Rolls, not a Bugatti... heck, not even a Mercedes.

It is a Ford, with an engine that dates back to the nineteen eighties, and knocks when you shift to second gear.

And folks keep saying 'Hey! Look at my Ferrari!' and wondering why other folks are shaking their heads trying to to tell them that it is still a Ford, that painting a snake eating somebody on the hood does not make it a Ferrari.

The Auld Grump... actually... more of a Ford Prefect than a Focus....

 -Loki- wrote:

From personal experience, the negativity between different player bases is an internet phenomenon. Aside from the occasional TFG, player bases in person seem quite happy to talk to each other like civil human beings.

It is, although the increasing prices of GW make it much more likely these days that if someone collects GW, then they will only collect miniatures from that company, and won't be able to branch out to other companies/games.

 Pacific wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

From personal experience, the negativity between different player bases is an internet phenomenon. Aside from the occasional TFG, player bases in person seem quite happy to talk to each other like civil human beings.

It is, although the increasing prices of GW make it much more likely these days that if someone collects GW, then they will only collect miniatures from that company, and won't be able to branch out to other companies/games.

I can see that happing right now. It's could be gw plan!

 Alfndrate wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
Thankfully i think such opinions are demographically skewed and i would like to think the average wargamer doesn't sneer at people who collect 40k.

Does the average wargamer not go on the internet, or interact with people in their stores or clubs?

We've got Flames of War players at my store that think Games Workshop is run by colossal idiots, and that their various games are dumb. One of them gave our little Friday night gaming group (they play Flames on Saturday) gak because we were playing 40k. These are guys that don't touch GW games, much like how some posters don't touch non-gw games.

These are presumably people who used to play GW games and now don't touch them, rather than people who have never played non-GW games and don't touch them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:

From personal experience, the negativity between different player bases is an internet phenomenon. Aside from the occasional TFG, player bases in person seem quite happy to talk to each other like civil human beings.

Definitely this. At our club (maybe 40 players a week) there's a fair bit of friendly banter about other games being inferior, but no actual negativity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pacific wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

From personal experience, the negativity between different player bases is an internet phenomenon. Aside from the occasional TFG, player bases in person seem quite happy to talk to each other like civil human beings.

It is, although the increasing prices of GW make it much more likely these days that if someone collects GW, then they will only collect miniatures from that company, and won't be able to branch out to other companies/games.

I've found it makes it easier to justify other games, my pitch for people interested in X-Wing is that you can get the entire playable game for less than a single GW tank and it's always been met with an approving nod.

I guess for me it has just always boiled down to I don't want to take the time to learn a new game, and don't mind paying for GW stuff. I've been around long enough to see gas prices, milk prices, car prices, etc. raise high enough that a hobby price going up doesn't affect me anymore.

The thing that bothers me most about the pricing is the NEW players. I'm so tired of going into my GW and watching the guy try and sell parents on this stuff, "Oh, you don't need much for your child to get into it, and it can be played at very low points levels". What they fail to tell these parents is that most people don't WANT to play these low 200 - 500 pts games for very long, and you will need to invest a great deal to get to the standard 1500 - 1850 ranges.

Kids can't afford to do this, and if you can't get the youth into a game, it's going to go away.

Herzlos wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
Thankfully i think such opinions are demographically skewed and i would like to think the average wargamer doesn't sneer at people who collect 40k.

Does the average wargamer not go on the internet, or interact with people in their stores or clubs?

We've got Flames of War players at my store that think Games Workshop is run by colossal idiots, and that their various games are dumb. One of them gave our little Friday night gaming group (they play Flames on Saturday) gak because we were playing 40k. These are guys that don't touch GW games, much like how some posters don't touch non-gw games.

These are presumably people who used to play GW games and now don't touch them, rather than people who have never played non-GW games and don't touch them?

As a reformed sinner someone that used to only collect GW games until I branched out, I asked them and these guys had been playing Flames and only Flames since they started wargaming.

The historicals crowd at my flgs are mostly GW players and ex-GW players.

 Matt1785 wrote:
I guess for me it has just always boiled down to I don't want to take the time to learn a new game, and don't mind paying for GW stuff. I've been around long enough to see gas prices, milk prices, car prices, etc. raise high enough that a hobby price going up doesn't affect me anymore.

It doesn't take that much time to learn a new game, maybe an evening or two. Find a game you like, see if that game's company has a volunteer program (Henchman, Pressganger, Sarge, Ranger, etc...) and see if there is one locally to you. Or grab a starter set and learn the game. Most games don't have gakky 1-sided starter boxes, and most of them are better buys than the GW alternative.

The thing that bothers me most about the pricing is the NEW players. I'm so tired of going into my GW and watching the guy try and sell parents on this stuff, "Oh, you don't need much for your child to get into it, and it can be played at very low points levels". What they fail to tell these parents is that most people don't WANT to play these low 200 - 500 pts games for very long, and you will need to invest a great deal to get to the standard 1500 - 1850 ranges.

Kids can't afford to do this, and if you can't get the youth into a game, it's going to go away.

I can get behind this statement. Similar sentiments have been my selling points for other games. "An average army can cost you 150 dollars, which can't even get you half of a GW army (besides GK).

 Matt1785 wrote:
I guess for me it has just always boiled down to I don't want to take the time to learn a new game, and don't mind paying for GW stuff. I've been around long enough to see gas prices, milk prices, car prices, etc. raise high enough that a hobby price going up doesn't affect me anymore.

The thing that bothers me most about the pricing is the NEW players. I'm so tired of going into my GW and watching the guy try and sell parents on this stuff, "Oh, you don't need much for your child to get into it, and it can be played at very low points levels". What they fail to tell these parents is that most people don't WANT to play these low 200 - 500 pts games for very long, and you will need to invest a great deal to get to the standard 1500 - 1850 ranges.

Kids can't afford to do this, and if you can't get the youth into a game, it's going to go away.

Ah well, here we are again.

My son and his mates are into the game; parents tend to think it's expensive, so they make them buy it bit by bit and only purchase more when it's a birthday, or when they've saved up their pocket money. It's not really that excessive compared to £30 or £40 xbox games. Admittedly, most parents squeal for joy when you mention you can get 25% off at Dark Sphere.

Most parents do indeed reckon the models are expensive compared to Airfix etc. But they're in general less than the cool Lego sets, and there is the advantage of the social aspect and the (generally albeit not always) good support from stores. So, across a sample of around 10 kids who my son plays with, I don't think pricing is a killer issue, at least no more than for other games. Most school leagues only allow games up to 500 or 750 points, and this helps with the price issue.

 Alfndrate wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
Thankfully i think such opinions are demographically skewed and i would like to think the average wargamer doesn't sneer at people who collect 40k.

Does the average wargamer not go on the internet, or interact with people in their stores or clubs?

We've got Flames of War players at my store that think Games Workshop is run by colossal idiots, and that their various games are dumb. One of them gave our little Friday night gaming group (they play Flames on Saturday) gak because we were playing 40k. These are guys that don't touch GW games, much like how some posters don't touch non-gw games.

These are presumably people who used to play GW games and now don't touch them, rather than people who have never played non-GW games and don't touch them?

As a reformed sinner someone that used to only collect GW games until I branched out, I asked them and these guys had been playing Flames and only Flames since they started wargaming.

That's pretty surprising, but also pretty telling. It used to be that almost everyone came into gaming via GW and had at least 1 GW army somewhere, but we're now starting to see people who are bypassing GW entirely. Which I think can only be a good thing except for GW players.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Admittedly, most parents squeal for joy when you mention you can get 25% off at Dark Sphere.

I am assuming that these parents squealing for joy know about these discounts because of you yes? I've got no problems with sharing information like that, but your average parent and their kid walk into a Games Workshop for a white dwarf and a box of space marines to go with their fantasy purchase, there's no one telling them about the deep discounts available from competitors, and that's where the problem lies. If you say, "hey you can get this cheaper elsewhere" in a store that you're attempting to make money at, you won't be making money there for long (if at all). GW relies on uninformed people and those of us 'addicted' to their product to keep buying everything at a Games Workshop or from GW's website. Pesky things like information and other game systems throw a wrench into those plans.

Herzlos, yeah it was a little startling, but when I thought about it, these were guys that take their gaming as srs bzns and want 'realism' in their games. These fethers are cut throat and one of the reason why I won't spend the gas money to go to the flgs on Saturdays when they play. Nothing like my own teammate getting mad at me in a 3000 point game because I was getting my combat platoons confused (which can happen with 14 unpainted Shermans on the board ).

Herzlos wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
Thankfully i think such opinions are demographically skewed and i would like to think the average wargamer doesn't sneer at people who collect 40k.

Does the average wargamer not go on the internet, or interact with people in their stores or clubs?

We've got Flames of War players at my store that think Games Workshop is run by colossal idiots, and that their various games are dumb. One of them gave our little Friday night gaming group (they play Flames on Saturday) gak because we were playing 40k. These are guys that don't touch GW games, much like how some posters don't touch non-gw games.

These are presumably people who used to play GW games and now don't touch them, rather than people who have never played non-GW games and don't touch them?

As a reformed sinner someone that used to only collect GW games until I branched out, I asked them and these guys had been playing Flames and only Flames since they started wargaming.

That's pretty surprising, but also pretty telling. It used to be that almost everyone came into gaming via GW and had at least 1 GW army somewhere, but we're now starting to see people who are bypassing GW entirely. Which I think can only be a good thing except for GW players.

...ymmv. I don't think i or any 40k player i've ever met would be collecting if it weren't for games workshop's high street presence. Those demo games you get, the painting tutorials (and free model!), the helpful demeanor of the staff.... If all that were to go, it's not like all those kids would be playing alternatives - they probably wouldn't be playing anything.

I've heard it's different in the states, where flgs are more common, and not everyone goes to a town centre every weekend. In such an environment, alternative games would probably be stronger. But i can honestly say that would not be the case here, i have only seen two flgs in my entire life and they've both been shut down, presumably due to lack of sales.

I'm sure that there are people who got into wargaming through a different route than a games workshop store, and being a specialised ttwg site there are bound to be proportionally way more on dakka...but i don't think i'm exagerating when i say that the average 40k player simply wouldn't have even heard of tabletop wargaming were it not for gw's high street presence.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Irrelevant.

And, you know... if you really want to compare this to boats and cars... how much has the price of cars and boats gone up when compared to inflation?

The Auld Grump

Some of their price hikes are inexcusable yet some are not. For example recently the Dire Avengers debacle totally unjustified.

But when you look at say the Marine Dreadnought... Venerable £28 and with various weapon fits and appearances compared to say the original bulky dread post RT days that was £20 but only got you 2 weapons and a choice of 1 sarcophagus depending on your choice of chapter.

So £20 almost 20 years ago and now £28 for an arguably nicer model with more options than ever before and an easier medium to work with... Kind of blows the inflation argument out of the water considering the UK rate of inflation has been over 2%pa on average.

And lets not forget this isn't a new development with GW, they have always priced models on a mix of design and unit effectiveness and then designed rules to make them invaluable to a gamer. Anyone who can remember the Realm of Chaos fantasy books with their Warband rules will know the pain of creating army lists based on model sales.