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2013/11/11 06:58:08
Subject: Game #3 of 3 - 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau (Completed)
This past week, I had a business trip down in SoCal. While there, I got a few games in. And since I drove down this time, I was able to bring a couple of my armies.
So begins my Ironman Rubber-matches with whom just may be one of the best Eldar players here in Cali - Adam Gati, aka Mortetvie. While there, I actually got in 3 games against his Eldau and with 3 different army builds. The first was with my ultra-dangerous and super-unbalanced NecrOrks:
This is my no-nonsense, ultra-competitive, not-very-nice, beat-your-face-in tesla-spam necrons. It isn't a list that I would ever take to a casual game. I will only bring it out for tournament play or if my opponent wants to test his army out against a really strong army. So far, I've only ran this list 5 times before this game. I won 3 games in tournament play.
Then there was my very first match against Mortetvie Eldau (link above). Finally, I brought it out against a very nasty Dark Eldar army with 6 venoms, 6 ravagers and 1 wraithknight played by a very good player. Even though he got the 1st turn alpha-strike against my crons, I still ended up tabling him. So, in essence, this is my No-Holds-Barred tournament list. I promise that if I have to take it out, then it's no-more-Mr-Nice-Guy. I am looking to table you.
First off, an introduction to my opponent. Mortetvie is a very successful and a long-time Eldar player. He is also very, very good. Currently, he has been running his Eldau (Eldar+Tau) with much success. He's won numerous local RTT's. He recently beat Reecius' Imperial Wolves (Imperial Fists+Space Wolves) at the Golden Throne GT 2013 to win it all. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it there to defend my title (I was the inaugural Golden Throne Champion). Because of his success at the Golden Throne, he was invited to the Feast of Blades 2013 Invitational in the beginning of October. He then fought his way to a 5-1-1 record and a 9th place finish out of 110 very good players at Feast. And he did all of this with a deceptively good, extremely synergistic Eldar and Tau build that probably took many people by surprise (I know it took me by surprise the first time I played against him).
Alas, it's too bad that he has to face my necrons. I took a vow to crush any and all Tau and Eldar players with my crons, and that is exactly what I am prepared to do. So far, I have not lost to any Tau or Eldar players yet when bringing my competitive Necrons, and I don't intend for my streak to end anytime soon. My opponent is going to have his hands full with what is perhaps my finest tournament army.
BTW, Mortetvie has his own blog. If you're interested on his views and philosophies about the Eldar race (or just his views on 40K gaming in general), check it out.
This is an approximation of his list going off my memory. For this battle, Adam is going to try out a slightly different build. Basically, he is going to try out a double-Wraithknight Eldau build.
Also, my opponent will be using some proxies in this game. Namely, his 2nd wraithknight and 3rd unit of jetbikes.
1. This necron list is my most balanced build. It's got excellent shooting, good assault and unbelievable mobility. It has very few exploitable weaknesses.
2. My opponent's army still have problems against flyer armies.
3. I've got plenty of scoring units - 10 for Big Guns.
4. 2 words - Mindshackle Scarabs.
5. Another 2 words - Ressurection Orbs.
6. I am going first, which means 1 less turn of shooting for my opponent before my wraithstars are on him.
7. My army is really durable and can easily survive 1 turn of fire.
8. 10 tesla-destructors will nuke any unit that I focus on.
9. I probably have slightly more experience playing against Eldar than my opponent has playing against wraithwing necrons.
10. I cannot lose against Eldar or Tau.
However, this battle isn't going to be a walk-in-the-park for my necrons either. Why will this be a tough fight for me?
1. His AT is much improved. The reaper-star is almost guaranteed to take out 1 barge each turn and the wraithknights have a good chance of taking barges as well. One thing I've learned from our last encounter is that my opponent can easily and consistently deal with AV13.
2. His MC's are actually a great deterrent against my wraithstars. As long as they can pass their MSS tests, they can actually tie up my wraiths for a while. Even his wraithguards can tie up my wraithstar as well.
3. Annihilation barges are worth VP's in this scenario. I think he can easily kill them all to go up on me +6 VP's in Big Guns.
4. Wraithguard Overwatch is actually quite deadly. Any Look-Out-Sirs I fail is a wound to my D-lord. Heck, never mind Overwatch. Their shooting is just dangerous. Period.
5. With the Exarch on the Icarus, my opponent can reliably take down 1 flyer a turn with Interceptor fire.
6. His units are quite durable as well. It won't be easy for me to kill some of his units, like his wraithknights and his reaperstar. I don't expect my wraiths to be at full force by the time I hit his reapers, and with Stubborn and Hit-&-Run, I most likely won't be able to finish them off in 1 turn of assault, nor will I be able to lock them in combat.
7. My opponent is going 2nd. That means he has the last say on objectives, and with 3 units of jetbikes, it might be pretty hard to stop them.
8. I do have an exploitable weakness, and that is I am rather vulnerable to psychic powers. Well, my opponent gets Misfortune in this game. Ouch. That is probably the best power he can use against me.
9. Mortetvie is much improved against my crons. From our past games, and also from playing against (and beating) a wraithwing necron build at the Feast of Blades, he's got the experience now to know what to expect and how to play against such a build.
Necron deployment. I deploy centrally. Flyers in mandatory reserves.
Here's a little deployment "trick" that you can use. I deploy my barges sideways. Then on my turn, they pivot and then advance. That actually gives them about 1-2" more in range. Thus, my central barges can actually hit a target about 37-38" away (if I move 12" and snap-fire).
Eldau deployment. The Eldau castle up in their deployment zone and deploy out of the reach of my annihilation barges (i.e. about 37" away from my army).
My opponent used a couple of proxies this game because he is trying out units that he doesn't currently have. The flight-stand is actually another wraithknight, and he uses my screamers as his 3rd unit of windrider jetbikes.
Jetbikes start off in Reserves. Kroots will outflank.
Overview of our deployment.
Mortetvie smartly opts not to steal the initiative.
I believe 1 annihilation barge (AB) might have been in range to shoot at his serpent, though I don't believe I did anything to it (maybe 1 HP of damage).
BTW, I took some of the barges off their bases because they kept sliding down the hill.
Barges then move flat-out and the wraiths run. I make sure to spread out my wraiths.
Eldau 1
Spoiler:
The reaper-star moves up to the Icarus. Eldau MC's jump around.
Eldar psykers cast Prescience on a wraithknight (WK), Guide on the riptide and Invisibility on the reaper-star (he would do this every turn).
Wraithguard serpent and the other WK (the flight-stand proxy) moves away from the main force.
THIS is how you play against a MTO army. You need to spread out your forces somewhat and not let them (actually, me) box you in. This also forces me to split up my resources and helps to take some of the pressure off.
Shooting by the reaper-star and WK's blow away 2 AB's, netting my opponent both First Blood and +2 VP's for Big Guns.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
I get crappy reserve rolls and only 1 single night scythe comes in. I take a risk going after his wave serpent while trying to use the ruins for cover against his Icarus lascannon.
Wraiths advance and AB's actually scoot back a little. I don't want to get into the assault range of his WK with my barges.
My opponent then informs me that my night scythe isn't 25% obscured from his Icarus and proceeds to blow it out of the sky.
However, 2 of my AB's fire at his serpent. I am only able to take off 2 HP's.
The rest of my barges fire at and is able to wreck his empty serpent.
I also kill his shield drone.
Wraiths then run forwards.
I believe I attempt a charge here and then Mortetvie's Overwatch kills 1 wraith and puts a wound on another. I then fail my charge. Hmmmm....
Overall, not a very productive turn for me. I was hoping for more of my reserves to come in and I was expecting to take out both serpents. Instead, I only take out 1 serpent and I lose one of my flyers and a wraith.
Next turn will be crucial. Whether I win or lose may depend on how well my wraiths can survive his shooting and assault. The thing going against me is that now my wraiths are in range of Misfortune. That could be bad.
Eldau 2
Spoiler:
All 3 jetbikes come in. Mortetvie is using my screamers as proxies for his last unit of jetbikes.
Kroots come in as well in the same area.
Psychic powers are cast. I am fortunate to deny his Misfortune attempt.
Riptide fails to Nova. I believe he failed last turn as well.
Wraithguards disembark and get ready to burniate my wraiths.
Wraithknights get ready to assault. One of them is Prescienced.
Reaper-star fires at my AB. I am fortunate to only lose 1 HP from a glance.
Jetbikes turbo.
Shooting kills another wraith and put 1W on my Warlord.
Both wraithguards then assault.
I get lucky in this assault. Mindshackle goes off and his WK does 2W to himself. The other WK kills 1 wraith and I believe he puts another 1W on my Warlord with Hammer of Wrath. However, my wraiths also do 1W to his other WK as well.
Riptide then does his assault move.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
Warriors from my downed night scythe walk in onto one of my Big Gun objectives.
Only 1 night scythe comes in. It goes in after the jetbikes.
Wraiths get ready for a multi-assault.
I believe last turn, his Buffmander makes the reaper-star Stubborn in anticipation of assault.
Night scythe only manages to kill 1 jetbike.
1 AB kills his other serpent. The other 3 barges fire at and only manage to take down 2 wraithguards no thanks to great saves by my opponent.
Wraithstar then makes the multi-charge. Thanks to Slow-&-Purposeful, his reaper-star doesn't get to Overwatch.
MSS goes off against the WK. I end up killing that WK, putting another 1W on the other WK (4W remaining) and killing 1 dark reaper (via Look-Out-Sir from his Buffmander). In return, I believe my opponent kills 1 wraith, does 2W to my D-lord and another 1W to a wraith. I win 6-5, however, my opponent passes Morale on Stubborn LD 10.
We then pile-in. More importantly, Mortetvie's reaper-star fails to Hit-&-Run out of combat!
That was actually a great turn for me. MSS came out HUGE once again, and his Warlord's unit failing to Hit-&-Run out of combat gave me a slight reprieve from their deadly shooting. This round just may be what I need to turn the game around.
Eldau 3
Spoiler:
Riptide and wraithguards go after my AB's. Wraithguards are also heading towards the Relic. Uh, oh....can't let that happen.
This turn, his farseer successfully Misfortunes my Warlord's unit.
Jetbikes move.
Riptide takes off 1 HP from my barge.
Wraithguards fire and hit 2 AB's with their templates. However, they fail to do anything.
Now we go onto assault. Both units make it.
Not quite destroyed, but immobilized and with 1 HP remaining. His riptide should be able to finish off my barge on his turn.
You were probably wondering why my opponent moved his jetbikes here. Well, what he does is to charge them into combat with my wraithstar and his WK. The jetbike gets into base with my D-lord and I am forced to randomize which model MSS would affect. It ends up affecting his jetbike, thus allowing his WK free to strike at my Misfortuned Lord + wraith (I believe there is only 1 left in his unit). Then end result? The wraith is killed and my Warlord is actually run down in a sweeping advance, thus denying him the chance to get back up. However, I also reduce his jetbike unit to just 1 single jetbike remaining.
The Eldau gets my Warlord.
In the other combat, my wraithstar wins by 2 and we stay locked in combat.
Just when I feel I've got the upper hand, my opponent then goes and pulls the rug from underneath me, evening the score by taking out my Warlord. Now he's got both Warlord and First Blood, plus 2 bonus VP's for taking out 2 of my heavies. This fight is far from over.
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
The rest of my reserves come in. I've got 2 goals this turn:
1. Kill off his wraithguards before he can get to the Relic.
2. Kill off as many jetbikes as I can.
I position my flyers and AB's to do both.
That lone jetbike takes not just 1, but all 3 night scythes just to take down! Talk about rolling like a boss....
Then all 3 AB's fire at his 3 wraithguards and manage only to take down 2. Wow, those wraithguards sure are darn tough!
Looks like I won't be able to stop him from picking up the Relic next turn.
Finally, my immobilized barge shoots at his riptide....and does 2W to him.
Oh, the irony. 1 tesla destructor can do 2W to a T6 2+ monster, but it takes 3 destructors to kill a T4 3+ biker or to bring down 2 T6 3+ models. How's that for poetic justice?
We then move onto assault. I do 2W to his reaper-star and he does 1W to my wraithstar. More importantly, I take out his Buff Commander so no more Hit-&-Run.
His riptide wrecks my AB as he was still in base with it.
So now its +3 VP's to my opponent for killing 3 AB's and +1 VP to me for killing 1 WK.
Eldau 4
Spoiler:
Eldau movement.
What are my opponent's goals this turn?
1. Wraithguard will pick up the Relic.
2. WK will tie up my wraithstar in combat.
3. The rest of his army will shoot down my AB's.
Wraithguard jumps on top of the Relic. He is just a place-holder to prevent me from getting to the Relic. I believe the jetbikes will eventually grab the Relic on Turn 5....unless his wraithguard miraculously survives my shooting next turn.
His lone wraithguard and riptide fire at my barges but he doesn't have enough to take them down.
The riptide the tries to assault an AB but fails to make the charge.
WK then assaults my wraithstar. BTW, his WK is Prescienced and my wraiths are Misfortuned once again. His WK kills 2 wraiths. I kill 1 reaper and put another 2W on his WK. Eldau actually win combat 4-3 but I don't care because I am Fearless.
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
Turn 5. Time to go for it.
Night scythe flies on top of the ruins and I disembark my warriors onto the 2nd floor to contest his objective.
BTW, in BAO rules, a flyer has a 180 degree vertical arc, meaning my flyers can shoot straight down.
Another barge drops off its warriors on an objective before moving.
It then goes after the wraithguard.
My last night scythe drops off his troops by his wraithguard before flying forwards (and going after his jetbikes...I can see 2 of them through the ruins).
Lastly, one of my scoring barges move back 12" towards another objective.
It takes 1 night scythe and all 3 barges but I finally take down his lone wraithguard. Wow!!! He took a lot of firepower to take down.
I know what my opponent plans to do so I surround the Relic with my warriors (with their Run move) to prevent him from a T5 Relic grab.
Between the shooting of both night scythes and rapid-firing warriors, I take out 1 unit of jetbikes.
Finally, in combat, I take out his WK without losing a single model. His HQ's pass morale, however. Also, my wraiths are currently contesting his objective as well.
Eldau 5
Spoiler:
With only 2 troops left and no way to get to the Relic, I've pretty much got this game in the bag, especially if it ends this turn. I've currently got 2 Big Gun objectives to his 0, and we've both killed 3 Heavy Support choices (yes, I killed all 3 of his heavies).
Riptide advances.
Jetbikes move and shoot down 1 warrior.
Kroots shoot at warriors. I go-to-ground and none dies.
Here, my opponent is taking a gamble. I don't have the Relic currently. He is playing as if the game will end after this turn and so try to accumulate more Big Gun points by going after my AB instead.
He then takes out my AB and then jumps towards my deployment zone to try to grab Linebreaker.
In combat, I finish off his Warlord and spiritseer.
Ok, I think I've got this game. If it ends now, I probably have a minor victory. If it goes on another turn, I have a good chance to actually table my opponent.
We roll.....and the show must go on.
Necrons 6
Spoiler:
I go for the table. D-lord splits off from the unit and goes after the kroots....
....while the wraiths go after his jetbikes.
Warriors pick up the Relic. AB goes to claim another Big Gun objective. All AB's train their guns on his riptide.
He does not survive.
Shooting takes down 1 biker.
I then wipe him out in assault.
Now there's only 1 unit remaining - his kroots. My D-lord assaults them....
....and dies to Overwatch. NOOOOOO!!!
The Eldau survives a tabling....that is, if the game ends.
And unfortunately for my opponent, my lord refuses to stay down.
Dice are always wild and this game was no exception! Before the BR is written/finished I will just say that Jim is a great player and I always learn a lot from our games-especially in this one. I think overall Jim and I both played a strong game and I feel like it could have gone either way at so many times in this game, what do you think, Jim?
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
- No one takes the Primary Objective. Other than those Wraithguard, there isn't a scoring unit that can survive a turn of shooting.
- Mortetvie wins the Secondary Objectives, despite the 6 scoring annihilation barges. Going second with 3 units of Jetbikes helps. He'll probably kill at least 3 Barges, helping with those extra points.
- Mortetvie easily gets First Blood off an Annihilation Barge with the 2 shot, TL, Tank-Hunting, Ignore Cover Lascannon.
- Jy2 gets Warlord when he takes out the Wraithguard. He'll also get Linebreaker.
4-2 for the Eldau. Calling it now
2013/11/11 18:32:24
Subject: Re:Game #3 of 3 - Jy2's 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau
I vote for the crons.
The primary should be a wash but the secondary should be relatively easy to pick up. Nevertheless, the game could certainly go either way.
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
2013/11/11 19:01:18
Subject: Game #3 of 3 - Jy2's 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau
Both armies claim linebreaker. I think first blood goes to whomever goes first (also depends on what the terrain looks like) I think Both teams can pretty handily take warlord, given how aggressive the wraiths will end up being. Just depends on how many times that D-Lord gets up.
Relic comes down to who drops on it first, I think Necrons have a slight advantage here, since their scoring units cannot be fired upon until they land, and will chew up any of those minimal and weak bike squads holding the relic, along with air support.
He has two legitimate air threats to the night scythes, that lascannon, and the riptide. Clever placement should see that threat mitigated.
I'm calling it for the Crons i think
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 19:01:47
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2013/11/12 05:19:24
Subject: Game #3 of 3 - Jy2's 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau
- Mortetvie easily gets First Blood off an Annihilation Barge with the 2 shot, TL, Tank-Hunting, Ignore Cover Lascannon.
I wonder if he'll reserve his Annihilation Barges partially for this reason...
Paradigm wrote: The key to being able to enjoy the game in real life and also be a member of this online community is to know where you draw the line. What someone online on the other side of the world that you've never met says should never deter you from taking a unit for being either weak or OP. The community is a great place to come for tactics advice, and there is a lot of very sound opinions and idea out there, but at the end of the day, play the game how you want to... Don't worry about the hordes of Dakka descending on your gaming club to arrest you for taking one heldrake or not using a screamerstar. Knowing the standard opinion (and that's all it is) on what is good/bad and conforming to that opinion religiously are two entirely separate things.
2013/11/12 05:30:12
Subject: Re:Game #3 of 3 - Jy2's 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau
SBG wrote: It's going to be hard to hang onto the relic. I vote draw... unless there are some very wild dice!
Yeah, I agree.
I think if my crons were going 2nd, then I should win the Relic. However, I am going 1st, which means he can blast my guys off of it.
mortetvie wrote: Dice are always wild and this game was no exception! Before the BR is written/finished I will just say that Jim is a great player and I always learn a lot from our games-especially in this one. I think overall Jim and I both played a strong game and I feel like it could have gone either way at so many times in this game, what do you think, Jim?
Definitely. Neither of us really made any mistakes in this game. It just came down to the dice and the overall ability of each army to take hits and still play on.
Siphen wrote: I'd have to give this one to Mortetvie.
- No one takes the Primary Objective. Other than those Wraithguard, there isn't a scoring unit that can survive a turn of shooting.
- Mortetvie wins the Secondary Objectives, despite the 6 scoring annihilation barges. Going second with 3 units of Jetbikes helps. He'll probably kill at least 3 Barges, helping with those extra points.
- Mortetvie easily gets First Blood off an Annihilation Barge with the 2 shot, TL, Tank-Hunting, Ignore Cover Lascannon.
- Jy2 gets Warlord when he takes out the Wraithguard. He'll also get Linebreaker.
4-2 for the Eldau. Calling it now
In the Relic, I also view it as a potential draw. Neither of our troops may live to claim the Relic.
In Big Guns, I actually feel that Mortetvie has the advantage. His heavy supports are much more resilient than mine and I've got more than him. I think he can easily wrack up +6 VP advantage over me just by going after them.
Moreover, he's got 3 jetbike troops and he is going 2nd.
Then again, you can probably guess my target priority.
tiber55 wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that jy2 will have the relic at the end of the game even if he is going first.
That's what I hope to do.
I also hope to have 2-3 of the Big Gun objectives to his 0-1.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: I vote for the crons.
The primary should be a wash but the secondary should be relatively easy to pick up. Nevertheless, the game could certainly go either way.
I actually feel he is a slight favorite with the Secondary. Of course if I went 2nd, I'd pick myself as a huge favorite to win the Secondary. Unfortunately, going 2nd for Eldau could be the difference in the game here.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
iGuy91 wrote: Both armies claim linebreaker.
I think first blood goes to whomever goes first (also depends on what the terrain looks like)
I think Both teams can pretty handily take warlord, given how aggressive the wraiths will end up being. Just depends on how many times that D-Lord gets up.
Relic comes down to who drops on it first, I think Necrons have a slight advantage here, since their scoring units cannot be fired upon until they land, and will chew up any of those minimal and weak bike squads holding the relic, along with air support.
He has two legitimate air threats to the night scythes, that lascannon, and the riptide. Clever placement should see that threat mitigated.
I'm calling it for the Crons i think
I actually think my opponent should get 1st Blood and here is why. The maximum range of my guns are 36" (12" move + 24" snapshot). All he needs to do is to deploy 37" away to nullify any chance for an alpha-strike on my part. And since this is Vanguard Strike and he is going 2nd, he can easily deploy out of my shooting range.
IMO, he's only got 1 legitimate threat to my flyers - his Icarus lascannon. His riptide really isn't good at shooting at my flyers. He doesn't even have skyfire and if he intercepts my flyers, his riptide won't be able to fire at my wraiths the next turn, which is probably more important to him.
- Mortetvie easily gets First Blood off an Annihilation Barge with the 2 shot, TL, Tank-Hunting, Ignore Cover Lascannon.
I wonder if he'll reserve his Annihilation Barges partially for this reason...
No, I don't.
In this game, I deploy all my barges. The reason being that I want more threats to make target priority tougher for my opponent. Also, since I am going 1st, I want the chance for the alpha-strike. And if he deploys out of my threat range, I can just move flat-out for the 4+ cover to any of his shooting other than his reaper-star.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/12 05:49:59
Excuse me Jy2 or Mortetvie, may someone of you post in details the equipments of the Tau Commander and the 2 Wraithknigths please? Maybe it's just me but the Eldau list looks like missing something.. in pts I mean..
Every molecule will be useful
6000+ pts NIDS
() 2000 pts growing to 4000...
2013/11/12 15:52:00
Subject: Game #3 of 3 - Jy2's 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau
Toban wrote: Excuse me Jy2 or Mortetvie, may someone of you post in details the equipments of the Tau Commander and the 2 Wraithknigths please? Maybe it's just me but the Eldau list looks like missing something.. in pts I mean..
I believe his Tau Commander comes with: Puretide Engram Neurochip, Command & Control Node, Multi-Sensor Suite, Iridium Armor, Vectored Retro-thrusters and 1 Shield Drone. No guns. He is entirely there for buffing purposes. In our last game, he also had Onager Gauntlet + 1 more shield drone, but he took them out this game.
The wraithknights come stock with double heavy d-cannons.
I actually think I was under points this game but kind of just went "whatever" and played on... I didn't think it was enough points to make a difference though. I'll double check my maths and see if Jim missed anything in my list...
Going over my list, it looks like I added wrong and was at 1977 points going into this fight but dunno if that would have made a difference...though in hindsight I could have used another shield drone perhaps, lol. I just threw some models down and added the totals then and there.
I think this game specifically helped me build a more efficient buffmander for future games which really paid off in subsequent RTTs =D.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/12 18:41:24
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
Riptide - Ion Accelerator, TL-Fusion, Early Warning Override - 190
Kroots - 60
1977
mortetvie wrote: I actually think I was under points this game but kind of just went "whatever" and played on... I didn't think it was enough points to make a difference though. I'll double check my maths and see if Jim missed anything in my list...
Going over my list, it looks like I added wrong and was at 1977 points going into this fight but dunno if that would have made a difference...though in hindsight I could have used another shield drone perhaps, lol. I just threw some models down and added the totals then and there.
I think this game specifically helped me build a more efficient buffmander for future games which really paid off in subsequent RTTs =D.
Yeah, the points difference isn't too big a deal. Sometimes, I've played with handicaps of 200 to even 500-pts before! It's ok to be under. I don't even mind if a list is over as long as the difference isn't too great, as long as the FOC isn't illegal.
With the points difference, I'd probably have put shuriken cannons on 2 of those jetbikes. That'll make them good candidates to do the JSJ tactic.
tiber55 wrote: Did a quick no codex calculation, it should be right around 2k, Reaper Star and the scythe guard are expensive units.
Don't forget to point out that my reapers are "invisible" and that you've been rolling like a boss to hit and wound and how for maximum "LOLs" you had kept rolling 1s to wound but got to re-roll thanks to preferred enemy!
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
mortetvie wrote: Don't forget to point out that my reapers are "invisible" and that you've been rolling like a boss to hit and wound and how for maximum "LOLs" you had kept rolling 1s to wound but got to re-roll thanks to preferred enemy!
You've got to love Prefered Enemy. That means wounds are almost guaranteed as long as I hit.
Shandara wrote: MSS... probably more of a threat than the lord itself against the Wraithknight.
Yup. My lord is wounding on 5's. His WK is wounding himself on 2's. LOL.
Post-game coming up later.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/13 17:41:03
I am not sure why he moved his reaper star back on his turn 2, he could have intercepted another NS on the Icarus before being tied up in assault.
On a side note, and this is by no means a knock at you guys, that 180 firing arc on fliers ruling from the last BAO is beyond idiotic IMO. It just makes LOS blocking terrain pointless. You had those bikes anyway.
His list at 2000 really should have more then the one added bike unit I think. at 51 points a pop there's no reason not to have 5-6 of those then it really is almost impossible for you to kill off his contesters/grabbers. Of course its obvious he just scaled his list up when I think at greater point levels and dual FOC you should start from scratch.
He also appears to still be struggling with the GJB's placement. I am not saying its easy, in fact it's really difficult but he needed to place them where your NS and warriors can't accomplish two tasks in one turn. In other words place them so you are either going for objectives turn 5 OR hunting his JB with your NS, never both if possible. This is why I think keeping them near his home objective was a mistake, anywhere else forces you to waste a turn of shooting going for that objective, then he can simply boost onto it.
Great game though! Man I hate MSS ha ha
Thanks
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow I just realized his deathstar is in excess of 700 points (since they also are the only things using the ADL) that's beyond fat. His one HS choice was more expensive then ALL your annihilation barges..... By a large margin. Add the two WK and its no surprise his army continues to be over run by yours. I'd like to see a more conservative approach to his reaper unit. Maybe a bastion instead with a three man reaper unit on an Icarus, heck at 2000 cant he have two bastions? (lent my BRB out lol) Of course I am an MSU freak so thats probably it, I can't stand spending so much on a static unit.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/13 19:23:31
Was a good game and close until the end- congrats Jim. Some things that really helped seal my fate this game:
- I actually did 4 of the 5 wounds to my riptide from nova charging.:(
-Jim rolled super well to hit against an invisible unit.
-Jim rolled super well despite being misfortuned (rolled actually as if he had been fortuned.
-failing that hit & run roll turn 3 was cruisial.
-you can try to hide the jetbikes but there was no place that completely blocked LOS or that Jim couldn't get to...in the Golden Throne GT there were plenty of places to hide my jetbikes and that is what I did and won. It comes down to terrain, your opponent's mobility and capability to get places that determines if you can hide anything at all-really.
-Other than that I did roll like a boss on that one jetbike and wraithguard model lol!
This game taught me:
-that having the buffmander more tanky is a must so I started putting on a shield generator/stimulant injector.
-having t4 on Farseer would be nice so I started to give him a jetbike-bonus if he isn't warlord so I can turbo and contest objectives late game without risking warlord.
-when dealing with his kind of list, you need more AA; 2-3 reliable threats to air would be ideal.
I think with a few tweaks I can be more than a match for Jim next time we play. Stay tuned everyone for another BR in the near future where Jim loses .
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/11/13 21:05:49
2013/11/13 20:40:11
Subject: Re:Game #3 of 3 - 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau (Completed)
MSS is the bane of wraithknights, they are very good at punching themselves, and since you normally are charging them into squads alone....
You could always change a list after the fact, say bring 10 units of 3 jetbikes instead of the wraithguard, but as you can see he only had 2 units with him.....
The list in general is a certain style, its different from most tau/dar as it is centered on wraithguard and reaper star as heavy hitters.
I still get the feeling that the west coast plays for wins and the tactical subtley of lets hide 6 units of 3 jetbikes (4 1 man crisis teams, 4 10 man kroot squads ect) all over the board and hope to grab/contest objectives is from the east coast. Not to say that the west coast can't play with subtley but we don't build our lists around it.
At least where I play in so cal its definetly smash first and contest objectives as needed. Not, hide and hope that at the end you have better scoring going 2nd than you opponent (thats what necrons are for ).
I am sure the 180 degree firing arc is there for two reasons, one, it gives you a 2nd turn of shooting for non vector dancer units heading straight on, and its much much simpler for tournaments rather than trying to make a paper cone and argueing about if its in or not.
Sitting on top of a bastion is barrage bait, any army with barrage will literally salavate if you put 3 exarchs and a buff commander on top of a bastion. Thats not to say you wont get barrage sniped behind an aegis, but at least there you can spread out.
BTW just wanted to say thank you to you two for the battle reports they are good read, even if it reinforces how silly silly necron's are to me, and how eldar really do need to work hard to counter them.
Also mort i would be careful with the buff commander adding the stims is cheap and helps a ton v.s. things that ignore cover/armor, and also against small arms fire as you get a 2nd roll to save, but the shield generator is soooooo expensive, 80% of the time you have a better save.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/13 20:52:14
2013/11/13 20:54:41
Subject: Game #3 of 3 - 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau (Completed)
Man, these games are just brutal. I know thats the point, but man, I wouldn't want to have to play either of these lists if I could help it Well done again, and another well written BR
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2013/11/13 20:56:05
Subject: Game #3 of 3 - 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau (Completed)
The shield generator IS expensive but it helps against other shots that might otherwise ignore armor and cover-such as from other tau armies or if someone gets perfect timing in a unit with AP 2 shooting. As far as I am concerned, I'll never leave home without it!
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
so what is your commander now all carrying in total?
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
And we shall do so again.
4500 pts
2013/11/13 21:22:50
Subject: Game #3 of 3 - 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau (Completed)
I give him C&C node if points permit for an extra guide; MSSS for the ignoring cover bonus; PTNEC for the special rules; iridium armor for T5 and 2+ save; vectored retro thrusters for hit & run; shield generator for 4++; stimulant injector for 5+ FNP. This brigs him to around 205 and if I really want to blow more points I CAN get 2 shield drones for some extra bodies.
This guy makes dark reapers resilient and increadily potet in shooting. Only thing that they struggle with is lotsa 2+ saves but the rest of the army should help with that. He can also join the riptide if needed.
Also-this is just one way to play eldar. When Eldar first came out I was thinking "if only reapers could get Tank/MC hunter and ignores cover" then Tau came out so I put the two together for great effect. The army relies on the reapers to do the heavy lifting while the rest of the army supports them and gets objectives/contests. It's probably not the most efficient but it's a fun list I have been working on and even now it is more efficient and better than when I last played Jim .
I think my favorite way to play Eldar is with a lot of wraithguard so maybe I'll make an iyanden list and play Jim for fun .
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/13 21:32:10
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
I think the failed Hit and Run at I5 was paramount and really changed the game.
I really like the Jetbike assault to reduce the effect of MSS from ~1/2 to ~1/4, well done.
I second your sentiment on the Shield Generator and your BuffCommander loadout. I add the NSJ, Onager, and Cyclic Ion Blaster as well. Becomes an incredible tank vs everything short of MCs and S10 Shooting.
I respect your playstyle with Eldar. You want a pillbox (reapers) and move support units around them. That's fine. Have you thought about taking a Bastion instead of an ADL? This makes a bunch of units more survivable including creating LOS blocking terrain for yourself.
You can put the Reapers inside and let them shoot until the Bastion goes down. You can put them on top if you fear a quick an bastion death or just abandon it all together, though buffed a Reapers should be able to survive the wounds a destroyed Bastion gives.
2013/11/14 05:00:30
Subject: Game #3 of 3 - 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau (Completed)
Regarding my play style-I really do like to mix it up with different types of armies so this is just one way I play Eldar. Sometimes I like lotsa fast and mobile things so it depends on my mood I guess .
Regarding a bastion: I have thought about a bastion and might get around to using one...but I refuse to use an imperial one and an waiting for an eldar one to come out from the guy that made my aegis.
Regarding reaper mobility/pillbox: Ultimately, the reaper "pillbox" only moves when it has to and I actually do quite a bit of moving/shuffling around with them to get in position to do different things-it just depends on the game and opponent!
Being slow and purposeful lets them move white a bit an if in this game I could have hit & run Jim would have lost his wraiths and the reapers would have been in a spot to take out anything else of Jim's (we rolled for fun if the wraiths would have it iced my shooting/WRaithknight and they wouldn't have).
So yeah-I'll have to experiment with different things and already have a list in mind for my next rematch with Jim !
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/14 05:05:04
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
Red Corsair wrote: I am not sure why he moved his reaper star back on his turn 2, he could have intercepted another NS on the Icarus before being tied up in assault.
On a side note, and this is by no means a knock at you guys, that 180 firing arc on fliers ruling from the last BAO is beyond idiotic IMO. It just makes LOS blocking terrain pointless. You had those bikes anyway.
His list at 2000 really should have more then the one added bike unit I think. at 51 points a pop there's no reason not to have 5-6 of those then it really is almost impossible for you to kill off his contesters/grabbers. Of course its obvious he just scaled his list up when I think at greater point levels and dual FOC you should start from scratch.
He also appears to still be struggling with the GJB's placement. I am not saying its easy, in fact it's really difficult but he needed to place them where your NS and warriors can't accomplish two tasks in one turn. In other words place them so you are either going for objectives turn 5 OR hunting his JB with your NS, never both if possible. This is why I think keeping them near his home objective was a mistake, anywhere else forces you to waste a turn of shooting going for that objective, then he can simply boost onto it.
Great game though! Man I hate MSS ha ha
Thanks
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow I just realized his deathstar is in excess of 700 points (since they also are the only things using the ADL) that's beyond fat. His one HS choice was more expensive then ALL your annihilation barges..... By a large margin. Add the two WK and its no surprise his army continues to be over run by yours. I'd like to see a more conservative approach to his reaper unit. Maybe a bastion instead with a three man reaper unit on an Icarus, heck at 2000 cant he have two bastions? (lent my BRB out lol) Of course I am an MSU freak so thats probably it, I can't stand spending so much on a static unit.
He moved his reaper-star back probably to make it harder for me to make the multi-charge.
Some of the rulings from the BAOFAQ's are made more for practicality/logistical reasons rather than for pure RAW. For instance, in pure RAW, flyers have a 45 degree vertical arc, vehicles that are made scoring still cannot contest and IC's cannot infiltrate with the unit they are attached to. But at the BAO (and many of the larger tournaments), they rule the opposite because some of these rules just cause too much complaints/arguments between players and/or take too much time to resolve.
Also, many times, pure RAW just doesn't make sense. Sometimes, going with the RAI makes more sense and is also much simpler, and in tournaments, oftentimes simpler is better.
Personally, I prefer more scoring units as well. I wouldn't mind running 4+ units of jetbike troops. However, in Adam's army, his offensive units just takes up too many points. That reaperstar, Buffmander, wraithknights and even the riptide just takes a huge chunk of his army and allow for very few extra points. Moreover, he's still got 5 scoring units at 2K, which isn't bad at all. Heck, he's got more scoring units than me.
As for GJB placement, this board was somewhat terrain-lite. The only place to really hide was behind his ruins in his own deployment zone. Moreover, with the mobility of my night scythes, there really wasn't many places where he could hide.
Yeah, that reaper-star sure is bloated for a 6-shot unit (+ Icarus shot). It's good, but quite expensive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/14 06:11:59
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