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Do you think the Tyranids will see any fluff changes in the 6th edition codex?

I assume you mean beyond "unit X has ALWAYS been here. really!"?

I doubt we'll see too many changes. but we'll proably get lots of new info. I mean really the 'nid codex doesn't tell us very much ABOUT Tyranids, beyond the basics and where they attacked. in that regard beyond some date changes or minor tweeks to allow differnt hive fleets to engage differnt targets (if there's one currently described as say really only bedevling the Tau) that said there's a ton of room for NEW info that could really change how we VIEW 'nids. for example. they could reveal a theory that the 'nids are some product of an alien race whom unleashes them on a galaxy with major chaos incursions in an attempt to erase all life in said galaxy, and thus somehow turn back the tide of chaos.

this wouldn't retcon anything, because right now our "orgins of tyranids" entry amounts to ".... who the heck knows... here's some favorite theories!"
so adding this theory wouldn't change anything, but it might make us view tyranids differntly/

Id like to see something about them invading the dark eldar city that would be epic but thats probably unlikely.

The question would be how would they have got into the webway?

cammy wrote:
The question would be how would they have got into the webway?

It's still in fluff that Zoanthropes have traces of Eldar DNA in them right? I'm sure it's a possibility. Genestealer raid on an Eldar ship could work too.

The question would be would the hive mind be accessible in there? It's pretty much just a roped off VIP only area of the warp right? I'd assume chaos could even get in there if they found a weak spot.

I would say it depends on who wrights it. If Ward wrights it based on what happened to the last xeno he did that wasn't human like in personality, then it will turn out that they don't really want to eat everything but rather those were just rouge elements of the nid race and the vast majority just want a place to live and to be left alone with their colonies because their home galaxy was destroyed. Or something equally stupid. If anyone else wrights it there probably won't be much change.

 NL_Cirrus wrote:
I would say it depends on who wrights it. If Ward wrights it based on what happened to the last xeno he did that wasn't human like in personality, then it will turn out that they don't really want to eat everything but rather those were just rouge elements of the nid race and the vast majority just want a place to live and to be left alone with their colonies because their home galaxy was destroyed. Or something equally stupid. If anyone else wrights it there probably won't be much change.

God, I hope not. The nidz are the Ultimate Consumption army. I don't want that to change.

I would really really like to see no changes at all.

I collect Tyranids and I am scared, no scratch that, terrified, of this new Codex. And I definitely don´t want to see them turned into another "humanoid xenos". I don´t want to know their feelings. I don´t want to know that they feel misunderstood. I don´t want their secrets revealed.

They are the only faction (perhaps with Daemons) that is still alien to mankind, the rest of xeno factions think like humans, feel like humans and look more or less like humans. It feels repetitive and boring. I miss not-human Necrons, and I hope Tyranids stay inhuman.

In the wish-listing:
1: references to (in order of preference) Zoats, Genestealer Cults, Norn Queens, Horrors of Icthiam, Dominatrix, Malanthropes, Cortex Leeches. Exocrines, Dactylis, Haruspex and Hierodules.
2: all special characters reduced to upgrades for basic units. So no characters. Or, at least, fix the "challenge" thing.

 NL_Cirrus wrote:
I would say it depends on who wrights it. If Ward wrights it based on what happened to the last xeno he did that wasn't human like in personality, then it will turn out that they don't really want to eat everything but rather those were just rouge elements of the nid race and the vast majority just want a place to live and to be left alone with their colonies because their home galaxy was destroyed. Or something equally stupid. If anyone else wrights it there probably won't be much change.

It's "write". To "wright" something is to build it. A cartwright is a builder of carts.

The Necron Codex is really good, and actually gives flavor and personality to a faction that was sorely in need of something other than being "killer robots from outer space". The best thing about Codex: Necron? You can still play Killer Robots from Outer Space. Nothing in the new Codex makes that storyline obsolete, it simply gives people who want to do something else with their Necrons the fluff to do so with.

He hasn't written a Xenos Codex since.

They were not trying to kill everything.

After being defeated by Chaos during the Enslaver Plague, they retreated and let the Enslavers starve to death. But they planted the seeds of their victory. The Necrons meddled with the Old One´s genetic projects and started a guided evolution that would eventually create the nulls. There were also buildings and machines that were supposed to be part of a plan to sever the link between Chaos and the real world, with the Cadian Pylons being the best known example: constructions that stopped the growing of the Eye of Terror.

Once awaken, the Necron started to recollect their weapons. They had Harvester Fleets searching for what they had sown millions of years ago. They captured the humans with the proper genes and turn them into pariahs. They set traps to lure the Callidus assassins to recover the C´tan phase swords. They also lured members of the Adeptus Mechanicus and of the Inquisition to learn more about the sentient species they were going to wage war with.

And I am not even mentioning the countless conspiracy theories about the Deceiver being Chegorah, creating the Tau Ethereals, being the Emperor or the one giving Abbadon Drach´nyen.

Lots of stuff. It is ok if someone prefers the new fluff, but saying that the old was all about "killer robots from outer space" is completely unfair. Compared to the old stuff, the new fluff is quite simplistic.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the Dragon trapped in mars, captured by the Emperor and fuelling mankind´s technology!

Honestly I suspect we might see the Tyranids gain more character identification. Sadly its a proven point that creating something that people can empathise with often increases its popularity. Making the tyranid heroes into characters and not just freak evolutions or special restricted breeds could see Tyranids gain personality (far as I recall its something only the Norn Queens are supposed to have and they are not practical to field on a tabletop game) .

 da001 wrote:
They were not trying to kill everything.

After being defeated by Chaos during the Enslaver Plague, they retreated and let the Enslavers starve to death. But they planted the seeds of their victory. The Necrons meddled with the Old One´s genetic projects and started a guided evolution that would eventually create the nulls. There were also buildings and machines that were supposed to be part of a plan to sever the link between Chaos and the real world, with the Cadian Pylons being the best known example: constructions that stopped the growing of the Eye of Terror.

Which doesn't make any narrative sense, because the Necrons were already roboted at this point. Why are they worried about the Enslaver plague? Better to posit their conflict with the resurgent Eldar, whom they had already been fighting for unknown numbers of years (possibly millions), as this ties them into the 40K setting more closely (because there is no Codex: Enslavers) and provides a more cohesive narrative. And a race of nulls is great... for that one race. Doesn't do much for the Eldar or the Ork or any of the other races created directly by the Old Ones. In fact, it would seem (even in those days) that the Old Ones got the last laugh, as the Orks continue to be the most-dominant race in the galaxy.

Once awaken, the Necron started to recollect their weapons. They had Harvester Fleets searching for what they had sown millions of years ago. They captured the humans with the proper genes and turn them into pariahs. They set traps to lure the Callidus assassins to recover the C´tan phase swords. They also lured members of the Adeptus Mechanicus and of the Inquisition to learn more about the sentient species they were going to wage war with.

Why? Why would they do this? This doesn't make any sense, because the Chaos that the Necrons knew is not the Chaos that M40 knows. The various Chaos Gods that exist in M40 did not, to the Necron way of reckoning, exist then. Why Necrons would invent a "pariah gene" for a race that they had no way of knowing was going to become anything, while fighting the Enslavers/Eldar, and then also trying to forecast sixty million years into the future to predict the Tau.... no narrative cohesion or even internal logic.

They are still luring those (and other) people to them, that's what Mind Shackle Scarabs are for, and have been depicted as doing in the novels that feature them.

And I am not even mentioning the countless conspiracy theories about the Deceiver being Chegorah, creating the Tau Ethereals, being the Emperor or the one giving Abbadon Drach´nyen.

Fan theories, I don't give weight to those.

Lots of stuff. It is ok if someone prefers the new fluff, but saying that the old was all about "killer robots from outer space" is completely unfair. Compared to the old stuff, the new fluff is quite simplistic.

Nothing you've said here paints them as anything other than Killer Robots from Outer Space. The fluff of the C'Tan is... irrelevant, really, and hasn't really changed. Things simply make more sense now. Case in point... you're a star-eating Space-God. Why would you carry a sword? The hell are you going to do with it? A "C'Tan Phase Sword" doesn't make sense from the internal logic, unless we assume that is what humanity called them, not knowing any different. Why would a C'Tan carry a sword? So it just being an example of Necron future-tech is fine... and that hasn't changed either (and has, in fact, been expanded greatly).

C'Tan were not much different than they are now, then, either. Choose one, that was the thing that drove your Killer Robots from Outer Space to do things. Still can be.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the Dragon trapped in mars, captured by the Emperor and fuelling mankind´s technology!

Still a theory. Nothing in the recent Codex refutes this (or proves it), other than to imply that it's possibly a Shard, not the full Void Dragon... which makes sense. If the Emperor was able to defeat a god-like C'Tan with an iron sword and a horse, then he could have dueled Horus in his sleep.

 Psienesis wrote:

 da001 wrote:


Still a theory. Nothing in the recent Codex refutes this (or proves it), other than to imply that it's possibly a Shard, not the full Void Dragon... which makes sense. If the Emperor was able to defeat a god-like C'Tan with an iron sword and a horse, then he could have dueled Horus in his sleep.

IDK, I think 4 chaos gods in one primarch body is more than a match for a C'tan...

 Psienesis wrote:

 da001 wrote:
They were not trying to kill everything.

After being defeated by Chaos during the Enslaver Plague, they retreated and let the Enslavers starve to death. But they planted the seeds of their victory. The Necrons meddled with the Old One´s genetic projects and started a guided evolution that would eventually create the nulls. There were also buildings and machines that were supposed to be part of a plan to sever the link between Chaos and the real world, with the Cadian Pylons being the best known example: constructions that stopped the growing of the Eye of Terror.

Which doesn't make any narrative sense, because the Necrons were already roboted at this point. Why are they worried about the Enslaver plague? Better to posit their conflict with the resurgent Eldar, whom they had already been fighting for unknown numbers of years (possibly millions), as this ties them into the 40K setting more closely (because there is no Codex: Enslavers) and provides a more cohesive narrative. And a race of nulls is great... for that one race. Doesn't do much for the Eldar or the Ork or any of the other races created directly by the Old Ones. In fact, it would seem (even in those days) that the Old Ones got the last laugh, as the Orks continue to be the most-dominant race in the galaxy.

Once awaken, the Necron started to recollect their weapons. They had Harvester Fleets searching for what they had sown millions of years ago. They captured the humans with the proper genes and turn them into pariahs. They set traps to lure the Callidus assassins to recover the C´tan phase swords. They also lured members of the Adeptus Mechanicus and of the Inquisition to learn more about the sentient species they were going to wage war with.

Why? Why would they do this? This doesn't make any sense, because the Chaos that the Necrons knew is not the Chaos that M40 knows. The various Chaos Gods that exist in M40 did not, to the Necron way of reckoning, exist then. Why Necrons would invent a "pariah gene" for a race that they had no way of knowing was going to become anything, while fighting the Enslavers/Eldar, and then also trying to forecast sixty million years into the future to predict the Tau.... no narrative cohesion or even internal logic.

They are still luring those (and other) people to them, that's what Mind Shackle Scarabs are for, and have been depicted as doing in the novels that feature them.

And I am not even mentioning the countless conspiracy theories about the Deceiver being Chegorah, creating the Tau Ethereals, being the Emperor or the one giving Abbadon Drach´nyen.

Fan theories, I don't give weight to those.

Lots of stuff. It is ok if someone prefers the new fluff, but saying that the old was all about "killer robots from outer space" is completely unfair. Compared to the old stuff, the new fluff is quite simplistic.

Nothing you've said here paints them as anything other than Killer Robots from Outer Space. The fluff of the C'Tan is... irrelevant, really, and hasn't really changed. Things simply make more sense now. Case in point... you're a star-eating Space-God. Why would you carry a sword? The hell are you going to do with it? A "C'Tan Phase Sword" doesn't make sense from the internal logic, unless we assume that is what humanity called them, not knowing any different. Why would a C'Tan carry a sword? So it just being an example of Necron future-tech is fine... and that hasn't changed either (and has, in fact, been expanded greatly).

C'Tan were not much different than they are now, then, either. Choose one, that was the thing that drove your Killer Robots from Outer Space to do things. Still can be.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the Dragon trapped in mars, captured by the Emperor and fuelling mankind´s technology!

Still a theory. Nothing in the recent Codex refutes this (or proves it), other than to imply that it's possibly a Shard, not the full Void Dragon... which makes sense. If the Emperor was able to defeat a god-like C'Tan with an iron sword and a horse, then he could have dueled Horus in his sleep.

He got a few points wrong is all, crons went into hibernation because the enslavers were wiping out the OTHER races, at thetime in there fluff the c'tan were eating them and crons we re harvesting them, still don't make sense but there it is.

Crons wanted to close off the warp not just because of chaos (and the enslavers) but because it kills them, cut out the warp.and no tricksy psykers kicking.around anymore

 Psienesis wrote:

 NL_Cirrus wrote:
I would say it depends on who wrights it. If Ward wrights it based on what happened to the last xeno he did that wasn't human like in personality, then it will turn out that they don't really want to eat everything but rather those were just rouge elements of the nid race and the vast majority just want a place to live and to be left alone with their colonies because their home galaxy was destroyed. Or something equally stupid. If anyone else wrights it there probably won't be much change.

It's "write". To "wright" something is to build it. A cartwright is a builder of carts.

The Necron Codex is really good, and actually gives flavor and personality to a faction that was sorely in need of something other than being "killer robots from outer space". The best thing about Codex: Necron? You can still play Killer Robots from Outer Space. Nothing in the new Codex makes that storyline obsolete, it simply gives people who want to do something else with their Necrons the fluff to do so with.

He hasn't written a Xenos Codex since.

Actually the Necron codex is really terrible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:

Which doesn't make any narrative sense, because the Necrons were already roboted at this point. Why are they worried about the Enslaver plague? Better to posit their conflict with the resurgent Eldar, whom they had already been fighting for unknown numbers of years (possibly millions), as this ties them into the 40K setting more closely (because there is no Codex: Enslavers) and provides a more cohesive narrative. And a race of nulls is great... for that one race. Doesn't do much for the Eldar or the Ork or any of the other races created directly by the Old Ones. In fact, it would seem (even in those days) that the Old Ones got the last laugh, as the Orks continue to be the most-dominant race in the galaxy.

They worried about the Enslaver plague because it was eating their masters' food.

The Pariah Gene was slowly spreading. The faction operated on the long game. The purpose of those nulls was to be herded back into the Necron army, and used as weapons against Chaos.

Why? Why would they do this? This doesn't make any sense, because the Chaos that the Necrons knew is not the Chaos that M40 knows. The various Chaos Gods that exist in M40 did not, to the Necron way of reckoning, exist then. Why Necrons would invent a "pariah gene" for a race that they had no way of knowing was going to become anything, while fighting the Enslavers/Eldar, and then also trying to forecast sixty million years into the future to predict the Tau.... no narrative cohesion or even internal logic.

The Enslavers are warp-spawned creatures, and their enemies, the Old Ones, and the Old Ones' progeny, all used powers deriving from the Warp. They ensured they had a means to better combat the Warp in the future.

Nothing you've said here paints them as anything other than Killer Robots from Outer Space. The fluff of the C'Tan is... irrelevant, really, and hasn't really changed. Things simply make more sense now. Case in point... you're a star-eating Space-God. Why would you carry a sword? The hell are you going to do with it? A "C'Tan Phase Sword" doesn't make sense from the internal logic, unless we assume that is what humanity called them, not knowing any different. Why would a C'Tan carry a sword? So it just being an example of Necron future-tech is fine... and that hasn't changed either (and has, in fact, been expanded greatly).

A C'tan Phase Blade was made from fractured pieces of their necrodermis. They didn't carry them like swords, and in the fluff, when entering melee, they shapeshift their bodies into whatever form would be best-suited for the task.

C'Tan were not much different than they are now, then, either. Choose one, that was the thing that drove your Killer Robots from Outer Space to do things. Still can be.

Indeed, I can see how you think "Eternal masters of time and space that are behind the Necron menace" and "Shattered space aliens that are enslaved by the Necrons for use as war engines" are "not much different".

Still a theory. Nothing in the recent Codex refutes this (or proves it), other than to imply that it's possibly a Shard, not the full Void Dragon... which makes sense. If the Emperor was able to defeat a god-like C'Tan with an iron sword and a horse, then he could have dueled Horus in his sleep.

It's a theory only in that "C'tan" was not used.

The Void Dragon that fought the Emperor was already starving and weakened. One has to ask how the Necrons managed to shatter the C'tan. when apparently the starving shard of one was able to nearly kill the Emperor, the same man whose might was such that he forced all four Chaos Gods from his son in a single demonstration of his raw psychic power.

You frankly are obvious in your lack of actual knowledge on the third edition fluff. Why must you make sweeping statements about it then?

I expect them to double-down on the concepts of Tyranid "personality" (via Special Characters) and the fallibility of Hive Fleet bioengineering (via uncontrolled mystery mutations like the Ymgarls).

I suspect they might also degrade the idea of Tyranid galactic unity by showing Hive Fleets competing with/absorbing each other in battle.

In short, I think the Great Devourer might become the Decently Big Devourer.

What Altruizine says is what I fear... They nerfed Chaos, they nerfed Necrons... It seems the Space Marines will win the day by suddenly realizing their enemies are meh.

@Psienesis, Void__Dragon and the rest: I am opening a new thread for Necrons...

Hive fleets fighting each other has already been part of the existing Tyranid background. Although its presented as weapons tests where basically its Tyranid Thunder Dome with the winner proving to be the more viable breeds to advance.

I am ok with that as long as they do not develop a personality and start fighting because of honor, greed or something like that.

I'm just going to wait to see who teams up with the Tyranids against some unspeakable evil. Tau and Tyranids joining forces against the evil destructive force that is orbital cleansing of a planet by the Imperium.

Or a noble tyranid warrior joining forces with a grey knight hero against those pesky sisters of battle.

For me it's simple, bring back the terror from the 4th ed book, the awe inspiring scale of the nid threat and then... Show me the 40k races adapting to the nids, like how the tau disk, add more on the leviathan tendrils hitting the Orks

 Psienesis wrote:

It's "write". To "wright" something is to build it. A cartwright is a builder of carts.

Ah, that wright didn't look right but my spell check said it was right, but it looks like my instincts were right after all.

BrianDavion wrote:
I assume you mean beyond "unit X has ALWAYS been here. really!"?

To be fair, if there is one race where pretty much anything is possible, and probable, it's the Tyranids.

It isn't like them inventing the dumbest unit in history that literally serves no purpose (the Centurion) in the Space Marine armory. The Tyranids are biological, adapting creatures. The army list has always represented the most common Tyranids, not simply all of them.

Agree with the above ^.

In all honesty, the Nid codex is the one codex they could say "its always been there. Been there but rarely seen, or just so similar to anothers its been hard to identify. Or is simply a new adaption.

Not sure how the current codex is written but earlier ones that I have were written from the point of view of Marine/Imperial studies of Tyranids not written by the Tyranids themselves. So there was a huge scope for them missing elements of the Tyranids and making assumptions or guesswork.

Tyranids are also supposed to have a fair few breeds of scout - the Catachan Devil is suspected of being of Tyranid origin for example. So they can certainly have quite abit new that is as yet not seen.

About the only thing they lost (and they lost this a good long while ago) was the whole genestealer cults aspect. Genestealers being human strains of tyranid (just as Biovores are ork and Zoanthropes eldar) and the cults being those who are like chaos cultists - converted to the cause and often mutated part way to being genestealers. The idea being they were spies and the advanced party that would come before the fleet.

Tau strain tyranids would be an interesting option!

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I assume you mean beyond "unit X has ALWAYS been here. really!"?

To be fair, if there is one race where pretty much anything is possible, and probable, it's the Tyranids.

It isn't like them inventing the dumbest unit in history that literally serves no purpose (the Centurion) in the Space Marine armory. The Tyranids are biological, adapting creatures. The army list has always represented the most common Tyranids, not simply all of them.

keep in mind the always been there really, crack wasn't ment as criticsm, but rather simply the obvious thing every codex has to have.

with the lack of any forward progress timeline it's hard to present anything as genuinely NEW. so they pretty much HAVE to "retcon in" all new units.

you may or may not like em but it has to be done that way.

for what it's worth I rather like centurions and think they have a definate place on the table. thing is, they're not a generalist unit, but, beyond fliers, we shouldn't be getting new generalist units in most codexes. we've got tons of solid general units in each codex. specialization is where the room on the margins to write new things in, really is.

why haven't we seen centurions before now? cause they're not something that are used in every encounter. they're used in special situations. such as when the space marines need mass firepower over mobility

Not sure how the current codex is written but earlier ones that I have were written from the point of view of Marine/Imperial studies of Tyranids not written by the Tyranids themselves. So there was a huge scope for them missing elements of the Tyranids and making assumptions or guesswork.

That's because bugs don't speak Low Gothic, and they're called Scything Talons, not Scything Typewriters. ^^

There's a number of organisms that are suspected to be of Tyranid origins (most of Catachan, the Kraken of Fenris, to name a few). We'll probably see some more string-alongs like that.

Probably see a new Tau-formed bug... not quite sure what it would do, though, other than maybe add Leadership bonuses to the squad? Adapting that whole "greater good" mindset... then again, the Tyranid are already all-encompassing in their "for the swarm!" mentality, if you can call it that.

Might see a return of Genestealer Cults if GW pulls its head out and gives Nids an IG entry on the Ally matrix.

Nids will probably eat another dozen planets you've never heard of before, to show off how bad-ass and eaty they are. Might get into some fights with Necrons, win some, lose some.

Might get involved in the 13th BC, and we might see mutant-bugs. Probably won't, though.

 NL_Cirrus wrote:
I would say it depends on who wrights it. If Ward wrights it based on what happened to the last xeno he did that wasn't human like in personality, then it will turn out that they don't really want to eat everything but rather those were just rouge elements of the nid race and the vast majority just want a place to live and to be left alone with their colonies because their home galaxy was destroyed. Or something equally stupid. If anyone else wrights it there probably won't be much change.

This is funny because I've always maintained that my Tyranids never meant to hurt anyone... lol. Jokingly, of course. But when someone at my shop says my Tyranids are here to eat everyone I always yell "They're poor, defenseless creatures just trying to find their way home!"


I've always chuckled at the fact that the Tyranid fluff talks about how awesome other codexes are. See Calgar and Maugan Ra.

I could see their threat level being toned down, 6e rulebook seems pretty eager to push Chaos as the big bad, and Nids give them a little too much competition.