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After trying to make a decent TAC list, I realized that, with the new Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics, every single anti-air option suddenly because not only worth it, but also fairly awesome. Flakk missiles? Usually not worth the 25 ppm, but combined with Tank Hunter? Yes. TL Icarus Lascannon on the Fortress of Redemption? Now we have a devastating weapon that can blow up land raiders up to 96" alway (and those Krakstorm missiles suddenly become far more effective as well). A simple Quad-gun behind an ADL? All you need is a barebones Dev squad and you have a rather good weapon against any AV13 vehicles or lower.

Of course, there are also the High-yield missile pod Broadsides to contest against, doling out the harshness 12 twin-linked autocannon shots at a time.

What is the best AA in your opinion? Do you usually take dedicated AA units like HYMP Broadsides or Flakk Devs? Or is your AA other Flyers, like the rather powerful Crimson Hunter or Stormraven?

The Crimson Hunter has the best chance of destroying a flier in the game...there is a very intensive thread on this subject.

SkyRay. Not only can it blow its load in one hell of an Alpha Strike, it brings SkyFire Markerlights, which is the best AA in the Game because it makes everything in the Tau Codex viable AA.

My vote goes to a Hydra. Those things can only shoot air nicely, but they can put out a metric ton of autocannon shots.

If you must exclude Imperial Armour units, my vote goes to a HBC Riptide with Commander escort.

12 TL-BS3 tank hunter ignores cover rending S6 AP4 shots.

My vote goes for the Vendetta, point for point it has decent survivability to take some shots and 3 twin linked lascannons has a decent chance of blowing anything out of the sky.

The Vendetta is hard to argue with, as it has a much better chance of getting more shots off than the crimson hunter.

Does a Heldrake count? The fact that it can attack in the movement phase is pretty powerful.

Stormravens twin linked multimelta is a lovely anti air weapon. Not to mention the missles and twin linked assault cannon or lascannon that follows.

Much better than vendetta which only hits on 4's with reroll. I've missed many times even with 3 lascannons and is only AP2 vs melta AP1.

Twin-linked BS4 hits 8/9 of the time. Twin-linked BS3 hits 3/4 of the time. That's an 18.5% increase in firepower -- almost insignificant.

I'd rather save 70 points. =P

I would personally prefer a unit of dark reapers with a tau commander with a fast shot exarch using an icarus lascannon.

Ignores cover, skyfire on the icarus, tank hunter with twin linked.

Lash Prince with Iron Arm. Always has rear armor. 2d6 str 6-9 shots at bs5 with easy access to prescience

The Vendetta. Three twin linked Lascannons isn't something to sneeze at.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The Vendetta. Three twin linked Lascannons isn't something to sneeze at.

Crimson Hunter gets to reroll damage though...and on average has a better chance of hitting.

Voted Sky-Rays as they are durable (disruption pod + AV13) and besides being awesome anti-air themselves also allow other Tau units to benefit from their markerlights.

I don't really value the Crimson Hunter that much as he requires too many variables to actually function. E.g.:
- Enemy Flyer has to come in before him or he falls out of the sky
- Enemy armies anti-air with Interceptor has to be eliminated before it enters play
- Enemy armies regular Interceptor fire should be very limited

And even when this works you are still often just exchanging points between Flyers as after it kills something return fire will bring it down.

I love my Annihilation Barges, 4 twin-linked Str7 Tesla shots, sure they only hit on 6s but that's 3 hits for every 6. That ends up being an average of 3 hits per 90 pt barge that is still useful for ground targets as well. At Str 7, it's going to average 2 pens per barge, immobilizing a flyer is often better than destroying it and taking the hits on the ground.

Point for point, the Sentry guns.

Single unit, not including Apoc, Mortis Comtemptor.

Pylon with Apoc included.

skycapt44 wrote:
Stormravens twin linked multimelta is a lovely anti air weapon. Not to mention the missles and twin linked assault cannon or lascannon that follows.

Much better than vendetta which only hits on 4's with reroll. I've missed many times even with 3 lascannons and is only AP2 vs melta AP1.

Vendetta is much, much better for the cost. The Stormraven's only saving grace is that marines got cheaper. It's still overcosted pretty badly.

DutchSage wrote:
Voted Sky-Rays as they are durable (disruption pod + AV13) and besides being awesome anti-air themselves also allow other Tau units to benefit from their markerlights.

I don't really value the Crimson Hunter that much as he requires too many variables to actually function. E.g.:
- Enemy Flyer has to come in before him or he falls out of the sky
- Enemy armies anti-air with Interceptor has to be eliminated before it enters play
- Enemy armies regular Interceptor fire should be very limited

And even when this works you are still often just exchanging points between Flyers as after it kills something return fire will bring it down.

Anyone getting a Hunter killed by interceptor is not playing it well. I do agree with you on a few points. While the Hunter is the best AA out there it does take much more skill to use.

tiber55 wrote:
I would personally prefer a unit of dark reapers with a tau commander with a fast shot exarch using an icarus lascannon.

Ignores cover, skyfire on the icarus, tank hunter with twin linked.

sure, if you want to down 300+ points on an easily killed unit!

dark reapers are over rated. good, but way over rated.

best anti air, it depend on what type of air your shooting

Corollax wrote:
Twin-linked BS4 hits 8/9 of the time. Twin-linked BS3 hits 3/4 of the time. That's an 18.5% increase in firepower -- almost insignificant.

I'd rather save 70 points. =P

Not sure about insignificant but i get your point. almost 20% is hardly insignificant. Also lascannon is only penetrating 50% of the time too. Odds are you are in melta range withthe raven. Points cost aside I'd still the multimelta, 2 missles and twin-linked lascannon over a vendetta. YMMV. Just my opinion.

skycapt44 wrote:

Corollax wrote:
Twin-linked BS4 hits 8/9 of the time. Twin-linked BS3 hits 3/4 of the time. That's an 18.5% increase in firepower -- almost insignificant.

I'd rather save 70 points. =P

Not sure about insignificant but i get your point. almost 20% is hardly insignificant. Also lascannon is only penetrating 50% of the time too. Odds are you are in melta range withthe raven. Points cost aside I'd still the multimelta, 2 missles and twin-linked lascannon over a vendetta. YMMV. Just my opinion.

The cost of the Stormraven is crippling compared to the cost of Vendetta. The Stormraven is paying for a ton of useless wargear, and the ST 8 missile miss 33% of the time and fail to penetrate 33%-50% of the time against priority targets.

Martel732 wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:

Corollax wrote:
Twin-linked BS4 hits 8/9 of the time. Twin-linked BS3 hits 3/4 of the time. That's an 18.5% increase in firepower -- almost insignificant.

I'd rather save 70 points. =P

Not sure about insignificant but i get your point. almost 20% is hardly insignificant. Also lascannon is only penetrating 50% of the time too. Odds are you are in melta range withthe raven. Points cost aside I'd still the multimelta, 2 missles and twin-linked lascannon over a vendetta. YMMV. Just my opinion.

The cost of the Stormraven is crippling compared to the cost of Vendetta. The Stormraven is paying for a ton of useless wargear, and the ST 8 missile miss 33% of the time and fail to penetrate 33%-50% of the time against priority targets.

While we are talking about a single purpose here I would say that the StormRaven is not in the running.

Again, I get the point. Vendetta misses 50% of the time and pens 50% of the time on AP2. The raven has a TL lascannon of it's own. I am simply making the argument that I personally would rather a SR over a vendetta when taking out a priority target as I like the multimelta, 2 missles and twin linked lascannon at BS4 over 3 twinlinked las at BS3. 70 extra pts doesn't get you much I agree. The transport doesn't help all that much in most lists, 12 armour all around is nice though. Not 70pts nice. The OP doesn't really make mention of points cost being essential when dictating the best anti air unit. Again YMMV just putting the option out there, playing devils advocate will get people thinking and talking.

Stormraven. Thing is a flying land raider that can have even more weapons.

zteknon wrote:
Stormraven. Thing is a flying land raider that can have even more weapons.

If only.AV 12 3 HP is shockingly fragile for 200+ points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skycapt44 wrote:
Again, I get the point. Vendetta misses 50% of the time and pens 50% of the time on AP2. The raven has a TL lascannon of it's own. I am simply making the argument that I personally would rather a SR over a vendetta when taking out a priority target as I like the multimelta, 2 missles and twin linked lascannon at BS4 over 3 twinlinked las at BS3. 70 extra pts doesn't get you much I agree. The transport doesn't help all that much in most lists, 12 armour all around is nice though. Not 70pts nice. The OP doesn't really make mention of points cost being essential when dictating the best anti air unit. Again YMMV just putting the option out there, playing devils advocate will get people thinking and talking.

By this metric, the Crimson Hunter beats the Stormraven, though.

What you guys need to consider is: What is the best anti-air in the game when you are facing 4 flying demon princes (including fateweaver) with 2+ re rollable cover saves. They will vector strike most other flyers.

I am not sure of what the answer is, but i am guessing something from the tau codex, since we need skyfire and/or interceptor and the ability to ignore cover saves... I dont know of any other units that can combo those three abilities together for effective skyfire.

Flakk missiles are way to unpredictable and weak even with Tank hunter from the Imperial fists chapter train, anything with str 7, ap4 isnt really that scary to a FMC.

Most flyers are fine for shooting down other flyers (Vendetta, Stormraven), but they cannot handle the FMC spam.

So are the best anti-air units FMC ?

Point for point, the firestorm redoubt.

Its a building, so you can't glance it.
You can use to to block LOS and keep a unit save.
It carries 4 lascannon shots, that while not so great on bs and targeting, kills stuff anyway.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
What you guys need to consider is: What is the best anti-air in the game when you are facing 4 flying demon princes (including fateweaver) with 2+ re rollable cover saves. They will vector strike most other flyers.

Nah. FAQ will say otherwise. I will enjoy seeing the massed daemons sell-offs that will occur. WAAC bastards.

Rapier laser destroyer, str9 ap1 ordnance, only 1 needs to hit and bye bye planes

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
What you guys need to consider is: What is the best anti-air in the game when you are facing 4 flying demon princes (including fateweaver) with 2+ re rollable cover saves. They will vector strike most other flyers.

I am not sure of what the answer is, but i am guessing something from the tau codex, since we need skyfire and/or interceptor and the ability to ignore cover saves... I dont know of any other units that can combo those three abilities together for effective skyfire.

Flakk missiles are way to unpredictable and weak even with Tank hunter from the Imperial fists chapter train, anything with str 7, ap4 isnt really that scary to a FMC.

Most flyers are fine for shooting down other flyers (Vendetta, Stormraven), but they cannot handle the FMC spam.

So are the best anti-air units FMC ?

Not everybody faces 4+ FMCs.
Tau is able to down them with their ability to ignore cover. The same holds for a Serpent spam list, the shield also ignores cover.