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Ah yes, because everybody and their mum has the funds and means to start producing plastics willy-nilly don't they? Oh no, this company is fethed now, because they're not into plastics! Quick, someone tell Corvus Belli and Hasslefree that they are dying because they don't do plastics!

Look man, if you've got such a hate-boner for Mongoose, maybe it's best if you spent the time posting here on something else, like updating that site of yours.

CB Actually makes Damn Good Models© though, not stuff which is rather mediocre at best. Paying metal prices for top notch stuff (with a miss every now and then) tends to go down rather better than when it's the kind of models they're showing for their introductory product, of all things.

I am well aware of that, but don't you know that they are DOOMED because they don't get on with the time and do their stuff in plastic?!?!?

...Meh. You might be better off just shipping that valera dude off to the ignore list already if it bothers you this much - he's kinda dragging you down now.

You're right, must think happy thoughts once more.

 chris_valera wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 chris_valera wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Quite gakky ones, in both cases. I do have 240 of the GoMC1 gangers. Though I use them as civilians.

I must ask; if you're a hobby rep, why do you trash the old figures? And if they're so terrible, are they unpainted? I'll buy them off you for a reasonable price.

What? The old GoMC-1 figures are absolutely terrible; probably the worst plastics ever made. Should I be praising them or something?

I don't know, should you? Aren't you the company rep? o_O

What are you talking about?

me wrote:I was Mongoose Infantry for several years, ran dozens of demos for GoMC-1 and Starship Troopers and tournaments for Starship Troopers. I'm fairly intimate with Mongoose.

me wrote:I was Mongoose Infantry for several years

me wrote:was

read this for more - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/474984.page#4757434

 chris_valera wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
And no way, I got them for $1 per box . No matter how gak they are, two bright colors and flesh on the face and hands and it's an instant MC-1 civvie.

I'm just saying, if you have them so much, if you have any on sprue, I'll take them off your hands for you.

I don't hate them, I said they're gakky, because they really really are. Terrible plastic, soft details, etc. But they serve the purpose as MC-1 civvies for Apocalypse War and Dark Judge scenarios - lots of brightly colored MC-1 civilians running around in mobs being killed by the bucketload If I could get them for a buck a box again I'd buy another 240 of them!

 chris_valera wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I find it really, really hard to believe that you never heard anyone question GW's quality when you were an Outrider.

Believe it. And this is coming from the guy who reps the company that gakked the release of the Star Fleet minis, had to rerelease them in a different material, and still gakked it up so badly ADB yanked the license back.

I don't rep Mongoose, I used to run demos and tourneys for SST and GoMC-1. Regardless, I don't believe it, especially as GW is notorious for some of the worst models in the industry. If you were an Outrider for any amount of time, ever, in GW's history, there's always been a not insignificant portion of their models that have been absolute gak. Has there every been a period where there hasn't been several ranges of Citadel figs that weren't the butt of jokes? I remember starting WHFB in 1994 or so and immediately not wanting to touch the Undead line with a ten foot pole.. how about 2000-era Dark Eldar? Current Empire? Having started in the "GW hobby" with Space Hulk 1st edition in 1991 I've seen over 20 years of Citadel figures. If you never heard anyone question GW's quality, ever, then you never actually spoke to any customer, ever. Are you in the USA? When were you in the Outrider program? Perhaps we met sometime in 1996-2001 or so.

 chris_valera wrote:

The only reason for me to buy the box is for the LE figures, the rulebook isn't a draw for me, because I know, all things being equal, Mongoose will screw this game up, as they have screwed up so many others, and I'll pick it up for cheap on ebay a year from now for nothing.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

You know, you can download the rules for free? The last public playtest was in June, and the hardcover is just a nicer, slicker, glossier, printed hardcover version of the two JDMG PDFs.

It's a book made by Warlord for a game manufactured by Warlord and distributed by Warlord, and designed by Mongoose. After several years of public playtests, this is the final form of the JDMG as designed by Mongoose and the whole internets community of playtesters. It's now in Warlord's hands.

I'll keep repeating this until you read it
Perhaps, but they've had the Dredd license for a decade and the JDMG is quite excellent. Placing the game into Warlord's far superior manufacturing and distribution chain speaks volumes to Mongoose's commitment to Dredd. You may be right about some things, but just not about this.

 judgedoug wrote:
.. and I'd say... half, to most, of the Justice Department, ..., are excellent models.

In a Judge Dredd game, that seems like a fairly large issue to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:
Ah yes, because everybody and their mum has the funds and means to start producing plastics willy-nilly don't they? Oh no, this company is fethed now, because they're not into plastics!

Pre-painted plastic models are the way of the future, don't you know?

Oh yes, it did wonders for Rackham didn't it?

 insaniak wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
.. and I'd say... half, to most, of the Justice Department, ..., are excellent models.

In a Judge Dredd game, that seems like a fairly large issue to me.

The funkiest ones are a decade old by now. The newest sculpts are quite good (like Cal's retinue, posted above, or the limited edition Judge with Lawrod in the box) Just use the sculpts you like. Or use Foundry sculpts. An average judge patrol team in the JDMG is what, 3 judges? 4 later on, maybe. Choose the ones you like. I personally own tons and tons of Judges for Apocalypse War games so the mediocre ones kinda blend in with the rest. (sorta like the 200+ GoMC-1 plastic civvies... you don't notice their badness when there's two hundred of them on the table)

BrookM wrote:Oh yes, it did wonders for Rackham didn't it?

I was thinking of a different company, that was going to revolutionise the gaming industry with plastics that were better than 90% of gamers could paint...

judgedoug wrote: The newest sculpts are quite good (like Cal's retinue, posted above, or the limited edition Judge with Lawrod in the box)

I think you and I might have slightly different visions of 'quite good'...

More than funky 90's posing, I think the bit that would bug me the most is the wild variance in helmet and shoulder pads between models. For guys that are supposed to be in uniform, there is a distinct lack of uniformity.

Wow. I feel like a man on an island for actually liking the models.

 insaniak wrote:

BrookM wrote:Oh yes, it did wonders for Rackham didn't it?

I was thinking of a different company, that was going to revolutionise the gaming industry with plastics that were better than 90% of gamers could paint...

Oh right, took me a moment to get that reference as outside of seeing the odd boxed set on-line, that company never really did sell well around these parts.

 BrookM wrote:
Ah yes, because everybody and their mum has the funds and means to start producing plastics willy-nilly don't they?

That one company made those 6mm not-Orks and not-Imperials sprue with just five or six grand they raised on kickstarter, Mantic seems to be doing well for themselves. EM-4 made plastic sprues waaaay back in the day for Combat Zone.

 BrookM wrote:
Oh no, this company is fethed now, because they're not into plastics! Quick, someone tell Corvus Belli and Hasslefree that they are dying because they don't do plastics!

Corbus Belli's quality is impeccable, and I'm sure Hasslefree and Heresy would do plastics if they could afford it. Both companies bitch about how little they make, and how the rising costs of metal cut into their profits.

 BrookM wrote:
Look man, if you've got such a hate-boner for Mongoose, maybe it's best if you spent the time posting here on something else, like updating that site of yours.

Very amusing. U mad bro? This is a discussion forum. We discuss things. You as a mod, of all people, should understand that.

I said I was getting a few things, but would steer clear of the main box, since all I want is the LE figs, and that the big rulebook isn't a draw for me, since, knowing Mongoose, teye'll invariably screw it up somehow.

it's also not just me that's complaining about the quality, so maybe it's you the one who should, sit back, relax, and change your tampon.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Chris, I think your avatar sums up nicely everything you've brought to the 'discussion'. You've said your piece now, the same thing at least 2 or 3 times, so not really sure what you hope to achieve here?

 Surtur wrote:
Wow. I feel like a man on an island for actually liking the models.

I'm on an island as well, a small way away from you but you can see me if you look hard! *waves*

I like the majority of the models alot - hence my large backing of the kickstarter. I think they are very evocative of the source material - but different strokes.............

Love all the judges and have loads of them

I enjoy the game and the rules - its fast paced and fun and thats good for me

 Pacific wrote:
Chris, I think your avatar sums up nicely everything you've brought to the 'discussion'. You've said your piece now, the same thing at least 2 or 3 times, so not really sure what you hope to achieve here?

 Surtur wrote:
Wow. I feel like a man on an island for actually liking the models.

I'm on an island as well, a small way away from you but you can see me if you look hard! *waves*

As a MOD I should be able to do something about all those negative people.

But hell, sign me up for an island as well, I think that the Judges are quite dated, but a load of the other models are nicely done indeed. In the end, the models do capture that silly, weird look of the comics.

BrookM is a mod?

Guess I am, there's a new sheriff in town, now cower before me all y'all!

 BrookM wrote:
Guess I am, there's a new sheriff in town, now cower before me all y'all!

Okay okay, got it wrong, he's a DCM, not a mod, but really, he should know better.

I may pick up some sky surfers from mongoose, but that's about it. Even going back to the original Star Fleet thread (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/375957.page) people were clowning Mongoose for abandoning their games and screwing things up.

I know some people want to be fanboys, but maybe Mongoose has the reputation they have for a reason.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 BrookM wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Chris, I think your avatar sums up nicely everything you've brought to the 'discussion'. You've said your piece now, the same thing at least 2 or 3 times, so not really sure what you hope to achieve here?

 Surtur wrote:
Wow. I feel like a man on an island for actually liking the models.

I'm on an island as well, a small way away from you but you can see me if you look hard! *waves*

As a MOD I should be able to do something about all those negative people.

But hell, sign me up for an island as well, I think that the Judges are quite dated, but a load of the other models are nicely done indeed. In the end, the models do capture that silly, weird look of the comics.

Hey, no fair! You guys each got a palm tree! All I got was Wilson.

I think that the models are very representative of the comics. There have been several different subtle styles of Dredd and if you look through the case files collections it's quite apparent that it wasn't 100% set in stone. Sometimes the helmet was ovalish, sometimes it flared like a skirt and other times it was more of a boxy thing. The fact that there is no one defining judge is informative of the source material. Further more, the poses really don't bother me. Dredd has that 80s style seeped into it and it would be a shame if the models didn't hint at that in some way. Are they perfect? No. I do think they are good value for being $7.50 USD a pop though and are highly representative of the source. That price is about half the price of an Infinity model so it's really not that bad. There are paragons in the hobby model industry but I doubt Mongoose can afford them for this kind of game and this niche genre. I also cannot be brought to believing that every company can live up to those high standards and I'm okay with that.

Heres some pretty good stuff from Mongoose for the RPG.

I don't know, but I kinda liked it.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?cPath=220

Heres some comics too, shamelessly plugged.

http://comics.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=2560

For all of the hate on for Mongoose, the figures DO fit right in with the comic book. Sorry.



The games pretty good, too. give it hell all you want, but they did ok with this one.

Yes, the figures "fit right in with" the comic in much the same way that John Wayne "fit right in with" the role of Genghis Khan.

What did Ron Smith, Carlos Ezquerra, Mike McMahon, Steve Dillon or Brian Bolland ever do to warrant an insult of that magnitude?

We kicked off our campaign with a 4 v 4 team battle. We had two Judge teams, their Brit Cit allies and a Judge Cal team against Necromancers, Cabalists, Rogue Citi-Def and an East Meg Invasion force. The game played quick and smooth, plenty of action and carnage and fun narratives were forged.

I think the rules are fantastic. Some of the best skirmish rules I've played. The sheer wealth of upgrades and talents for heroes is phenomenal.

I do share concerns however. I've got many a Babylon 5, Conan d20, ACTA: Starfleet and SST miniature. I'd hate to see this become another game I look upon fondly that will never be played/supported. The upside is that apart from Judges, it would be easy to source alternative models.

I'd recommend this set in a heartbeat if you could choose the two starter boxes that come with it. I think it would be a great entry point then, able to quickly portray a variety of famous Dredd storylines. I've fired off an email to Matt asking if that's possible... we're gonna need more figures if this weird Apocalypse War/Judgement Day storyline is to continue for our group.

I think with Warlord's involvement we can safely assume that this is one game that Mongoose will not feth up or over.

 chris_valera wrote:

Currently their MO seems to be to acquire a license, hype it up as being the second coming of gaming, fart out a ton of shoddy product, flog it all before the suckers get wise to it, and then drop it completely when the license goes tits up.

We have had the Judge Dredd licence for 11 years straight now and if you take a closer look at this game, I think you will find it is far from shoddy.

 chris_valera wrote:


Starting and dropping Runequest and Glorantha? Mighty Empires? SST? B5? Conan? Slaine?

Oh, come on.

We didn't ditch B5 - we produced something like 40 books, over 200 different miniatures, stretched across 13 fleets. That is hardly a poor effort (just what else did you want us to do with it?). SST was mired in a legal dispute far beyond our level (Heinlein estate takes Sony to court), but you cannot tell me we did not do a damn good game there. The core rules are being used in Judge Dredd still.

Mighty Empires we passed on to another company (Rebel Minis) who still produce new material for it today. Hardly unsupported.

Slaine? Are you kidding me? That was always going to be a niche/one-off game - but we still managed to get 10 books out for the D20 version alone. Again, hardly unsupported.

Are you really suggesting that once a game comes out, it should be kept in production regardless of other factors? We can all point at other companies that do exactly the opposite, because that is the sensible thing to do, for reasons that I am pretty sure are obvious.

RQ & Glorantha did not work out for us, but I am not sure there is another publisher who has produced more material for it, and they certainly did not put an entire edition in leather-bound casings. Conan ended because the film came along.

But here is the thing - licences end. It is the way of things. They are for set periods and always have a finite life. You think that nice looking AvP will be around in 20 years time? We are very lucky to have the arrangement we do on Judge Dredd, but it is highly unusual in licensing.

At least we bothered to get the official licences, rather than make models that looked a little bit like their film/TV counterparts. You want a rant from me, get me started on that...

Caliginous wrote:

Sorry Matt. I respect you and your company, and I love your fluff and so forth on your 2000AD licences.

You are quite entitled to your opinion, Sir

Caliginous wrote:
But these miniatures are the worst in the industry.

But they are really not that

Ok, I had no knowledge that Clancy and Glass looked so good in mini form! I must have them!

Oh, nice rebuttal MM, and in a non rant inducing way could you give me a twenty word or less (or as long as you like) reasoning for the Not-X miniatures?
I am genuinely curious and would like to get a point of view from you.

After a quick email it seems the starter set is unchangeable and the two forces can't be picked. It's a bit of a disappointment for me and my gaming group, we're always chumps for rulebook and starter set deals (Looking at you Spartan Games ), but thems the breaks.

The starter is still a great deal, I'm going to give one to a die-hard Dredd fan after I showed her the rule pdfs from the Mongoose site, so score one for the rules being free and available.

Oh it's a great deal, I'm just being selfish as Judges and Punks are the last thing I need.

Hehe, true enough!