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2013/11/20 20:02:56
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
A Tennessee man was arrested after trying to pick his children up from their elementary school last week because he did not follow the proper pickup procedures.
Jim Howe, 40, a resident of Crossville Tenn., posted a video on YouTube from when he was arrested for disorderly conduct at the South Cumberland Elementary School. Howe can be seen in the video arguing with School Resource Officer Avery Aytes over the school's policy for picking up children.
"The county jail is where you're going," Aytes said at one point of the conversation.
"That's fine, I've been there before," Howe answered.
"Good, you're about to go there again," Aytes said.
True to his word, Aytes eventually did handcuff Howe and charged him with disorderly conduct as he was led into a county sheriff's vehicle. Howe told The Daily News Wednesday he was released and faces a Dec. 2 court date.
RELATED: BROOKLYN SCHOOL LOST TRACK OF BOY: MOM
The controversy stems over a change in the procedure last week. Before, parents could park in the lot and come into the school to pick up the children, Howe said. But now the parents must wait in their vehicles and line up on the side of a local highway -- which Howe said stretches a mile and is a safety concern.
The father of an 8- and 14-year-old said he learned of the policy when it went into effect Nov. 12 and got into an argument with Aytes when he tried to pick up his kids on foot.
Aytes told Howe to get back into his vehicle.
"You are the only one -- the only one -- who is making a big deal out of this," the officer said. He later asked Howe is he "was proud of himself."
So on Thursday, Howe said he decided to walk to the school instead of waiting in the long line.
That's when he got arrested.
RELATED: NINE STUDENTS ARRESTED AFTER FIGHT AT PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL
"They're walking with me when school's dismissed," Howe told Aytes.
Policy dictates that parents such as Howe (right) wait in their vehicles to pick up their children. School Resource Officer Avery Aytes (left) warned Howe that he would be going to jail if he didn’t comply.
HOWEMOTORSPORTS/VIA YOUTUBE
Policy dictates that parents such as Howe (right) wait in their vehicles to pick up their children. School Resource Officer Avery Aytes (left) warned Howe that he would be going to jail if he didn’t comply.
"No, they're not," the officer replied.
Donald Andrews, superintendent for the Cumberland County school district, told The News they made the change in policy, which parents received multiple notices about, to protect the students. Instead of anyone being able to just enter the building they now must wait in their car with a placard containing their child's name.
"I make no apologies for the policy," he said. "It was done for the safety of the children."
Andrews also said he stands by Aytes' actions - noting Howe was becoming disruptive inside the school building.
"I thought he showed a lot of restraint throughout situation and he finally had enough," Andrews said. "I talked to the police officer. He replied to me he didn't want to do this, but he said he had no choice."
RELATED: BRONX TOPS CITY IN STUDENT ARRESTS
The district is working out the problems with the new policy and said many parents are in favor of it, Andrews said. The change came from a suggestion by the school's Parent teacher Organization, he said.
Cumberland County Sheriff Butch Burgess did not yet return a call to The News, but told TV station WATE that Aytes was correct in following the school's policy.
"The resource officers are there to enforce the law," he said.
Howe said he is now following the policy.
"We have no choice but to follow it," he said. "Either that or go to jail."
But he said he still thinks the new policy is ultimately more dangerous because it makes parents sit in their cars and kids travel through traffic to get to their vehicle. He said he posted the videos his fiancée shot with her cellphone to create awareness on the issue.
"It's a violation of our parental rights. It's a violation of our rights as people," he said. "I don't have any regrets. … We have to stand up against bad policy and stand up for our rights. If we don't we won't have any."
jlandau@nydailynews.com Follow on Twitter @joelzlandau
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
2013/11/20 20:12:22
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
So instead of picking kids up in person, the kids can be enticed directly into any vehicle parked up? Which part of this protects them, again?
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2013/11/20 20:21:15
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
Avatar 720 wrote: So instead of picking kids up in person, the kids can be enticed directly into any vehicle parked up? Which part of this protects them, again?
Apparently it's the fastest way to get the kids out of the school property.
My kid's school is like that, where you park "in a line" in the parking lot. Then all the kids go to the car...
Once all kids are loaded up, the cars can then, and only then, leave.
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2013/11/20 20:27:10
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
hotsauceman1 wrote: It sounds unsafe to me TBH. A kid could be grabbed on that mile line
Here there are lines of cars waiting to pick up children from school, but children don't walk to cars so much as cars pull up, receive (assumedly) the proper child(ren) and pull away. The waiting for all kids to be in cars before anybody's allowed to leave doesn't sound very efficient at all.
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
2013/11/20 20:49:15
Subject: Re:Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
So in a school of more than about 5 pupils it must take forever to get everyone into the cars if you have to call the child forward once the parent rolls up at the gates, wait for them to get in, then look to see who the next parent is, call the next child, wait for them to get to the door and then into the car, etc...
Especially stupid if you are causing a huge tailback through half of town when there is a perfectly good parking lot they could all wait in.
Is child snatching/running under a car/etc really that big a threat to children?
Why not just give them all guns to defend themselves?
So if you down't own a car or live walking distance of the school... you can never have your children back again?
The school couldn't have a way where the people can pick up their kids without entering the school?
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2013/11/20 22:00:01
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
Why not just give them all guns to defend themselves?
Dang it, I wanted to say that!
What exactly is wrong with school buses? Seems a little odd to have parents obliged to pick up their kids each day unless of course there is also a bus (unlikely if the lineup of cars is a mile long)
Commander Cain wrote: What exactly is wrong with school buses? Seems a little odd to have parents obliged to pick up their kids each day unless of course there is also a bus (unlikely if the lineup of cars is a mile long)
I think it is illegal in America to spend tax dollars on commie plots like school buses.
Why not just give them all guns to defend themselves?
Dang it, I wanted to say that!
What exactly is wrong with school buses? Seems a little odd to have parents obliged to pick up their kids each day unless of course there is also a bus (unlikely if the lineup of cars is a mile long)
I've asked that same question of parents I know who pick up their kids and the answer is always "Who wants their kid riding a bus?" It's the age of child worship and molly coddling.
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
2013/11/29 00:31:40
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
So guy willfully ignores the rules after being warned about it, causes a big scene, gets arrested for [strike]being a dumbass[/strike] disorderly conduct after having been given multiple warnings by the cop, and we should be upset why?
"People pulling up and picking up kids" is no more dangerous than "people walking up and picking up kids".
Not having a ton of people walk in and out of school has become pretty commonplace after the recent school shootings. My wife's school has the same procedure now. Nobody can enter the school, the curb in front of the door is as far as anybody can get. There is a small entryway that is double locked that leads to the office, but no way for anybody to get to the kids themselves.
Thanks Obama...
2013/11/20 22:09:50
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
kronk wrote: In some areas, if you live within X distance, no bus for you.
And in some situations, a bus stop may be far away. In Middle school, my bus stop was .6 miles away. In HS it was on my street corner. In my district if you live within 1.5 miles and can get to the school without crossing any major roads, there is no bus for you, Just crosswalks and crossing guards.
So if this is a solution to solve 'child abductions', I am not sure that it accomplishes that. I am trying to see what 'safety' issue it is addressing.
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2013/11/20 22:11:24
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
So if this is a solution to solve 'child abductions', I am not sure that it accomplishes that. I am trying to see what 'safety' issue it is addressing.
The reason the same policy was implemented at my wife's school was to minimize the number of people that enter the school while the kids are present. This is a response to the school shootings over the last few years.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/20 22:12:22
2013/11/20 22:20:47
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
So if this is a solution to solve 'child abductions', I am not sure that it accomplishes that. I am trying to see what 'safety' issue it is addressing.
The reason the same policy was implemented at my wife's school was to minimize the number of people that enter the school while the kids are present. This is a response to the school shootings over the last few years.
I understand securing the facility, but how does that handle the walk-up vs drive up retrieval of children. Is the parent not allowed to stand at the curb like a car and have his child brought to him to then walk home? How do they handle walkers and can a parent simply say 'my child is now a walker' and then walk to meet them as they leave school?
They are still 'discharging' students to parents... And technically he would be perfectly legally justified to show up 10 minutes early and sign his kids out of school early every day which would of course be a pain in the ass. I have worked in the schools and done bus duty, so I know what goes on... I just don't see how you can prevent 'walking parents' access to their children without a vehicle.
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2013/11/20 22:30:33
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
A line of cars is a more difficult target that a punch of people standing in front of the school. Children exiting the school one vehicle at a time are a smaller target than a bunch of kids exiting all at once.
He can sign the kids out early, but he would still be required to be there with a car to get them (since they know him and that is the policy) and if he takes his kid out of school often enough then he will probably end up with a visit from a different officer for truancy.
2013/11/20 23:06:32
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
Also, does he have to mirandize him? I'm not entirely clear on the process in which that has to be done (timeline wise). Anyone able to clarify?
hotsauceman1 wrote:If i remember, my cop buddy said anytime during an arrest
The only requirement on the miranda is it must be done before a custodial interrogation. When that begins depends on the situation. You have to be in custody, and they have to be asking questions. Some officers do that on the scene, some in the car, some wait till an interrogation room. Generally policies dictate you do it at the time of arrest to cover your butt when asking questions before getting back to the department.
So is there actually any way for him to collect the kids without a car, i.e. walk home with them?
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2013/11/20 23:34:54
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
Anyway, so parents who don't have a car, stand in amongst the cars, and wait, standing there with their kids, for the school to let them walk home? Sounds pretty normal to me. My mom works at a school with a similar system. Parents aren't allowed in the school, they've got to wait outside in a designated area (the car park) for the kids to go to them.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/20 23:43:51
2013/11/20 23:52:43
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
Anyway, so parents who don't have a car, stand in amongst the cars, and wait, standing there with their kids, for the school to let them walk home? Sounds pretty normal to me. My mom works at a school with a similar system. Parents aren't allowed in the school, they've got to wait outside in a designated area (the car park) for the kids to go to them.
Same for my little brother's school. Parents wait outside near the parking lot, and the kids are walked out, one class at a time, and brought to their parents. If someone other than the parents are picking up the kid, the school has to be notified first. Fairly simple.
Edit - grammar
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/20 23:54:57
Why not just give them all guns to defend themselves?
Dang it, I wanted to say that!
What exactly is wrong with school buses? Seems a little odd to have parents obliged to pick up their kids each day unless of course there is also a bus (unlikely if the lineup of cars is a mile long)
I've asked that same question of parents I know who pick up their kids and the answer is always "Who wants their kid riding a bus?" It's the age of child worship and molly coddling.
OH GOD YES!!!!! My cousin is the same way. Her daughter was starting kintergarten, she put her on the bus with her two brothers. But the girl was nervous. So you wnna know what she did? She decided to drive alongside the bus to the school to meet her girl there. When i said this was bad and taught her to always think mommy will be there, I was called heartless by my own mother.
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2013/11/21 00:58:54
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
kronk wrote: In some areas, if you live within X distance, no bus for you.
My entire city's school district runs on this idea. Most of the students walk to school, the other chunk of students drive/get rides, and the remaining students take public transportation or are truant delinquents.
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2013/11/21 01:06:22
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
Also, does he have to mirandize him? I'm not entirely clear on the process in which that has to be done (timeline wise). Anyone able to clarify?
If you wish to use their statement in court, any time before interrogation. Different departments have different times they traditionally do it.
Also, you don't have to do it at all. It's an interrogation thing, not an arrest thing, despite what TV would have you believe. For example, if they're just taking someone in for a night in the "drunk tank", there's no need to mirandize, as they're often not looking to interrogate someone for a statement for court in that instance.
Also, according to ALL my cop friends(both MPs and "standard"): If you're in an interrogation room, ask for a lawyer and put your head down. Don't say anything, don't sign anything. All the lawyers say the same thing, too.
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2013/11/21 01:13:41
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2013/11/21 01:18:25
Subject: Tennessee man gets arrested while trying to pick up kids at school (Video at bottom of post)
-Shrike- wrote: So is there actually any way for him to collect the kids without a car, i.e. walk home with them?
Apparently not. If there was, they could have said 'Parents with Cars, wait here with sign. Parents without cars, stand on this corner near the yellow flag and we will send your child to you.'
Telling a parent they cannot have their child while spouting nonsense like a broken robot "Must be in car, does not compute" is a good way to get a parent angry and violent. Lots of familes have no cars, can not legally drive or have a single car which is being used by the primary income earner. So not giving parents a way to obtain their children without a car seems pretty elitist.
Apparently there is more to the story. The Deputy was reported to the sheriff and was in trouble hence why the deputy was irate because it was this parent who reported him. They were in the office to sign the forms to turn their 'pick-up' kids to 'walkers' so the kids could walk home and not worry about being picked up where the Deputy got 'angry' because the guy who reported him was in the school, doing what he was supposed to do. The school wasn't upset, just the deputy where upon the deputy started yelling at the parent. The Sherriff actually agrees with the Parent and advised the school against the policy as implemented because it is causing traffic dangers and spoke against the policy at the school hearing.
I am seeing a lot of one-sided articles on both sides leaving stuff out, but basically the parent was right. If the new pickup system was a ClusterF, he can make his kids be registered as walkers, and his kids can walk home freely and as parents, he can meet them at the street corner. The Deupty is just mad someone went over his head.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/21 01:41:34
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