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I have been wanting to ask this question to other fans of lore as myself to see how they felt about this. I am a grey knight player, and in the codex it makes it sound like the development of the Inquisition was solely the Emperor's idea that he tasked Malcador to create and thus would lead to the founding of the grey knights. This would then imply that the Emperor also freely gave his gene-seed in order for the grey knights to be created so that someone can watch the Imperium in case the Emperor ever was removed
Well, I finally got around to listening to the audio dramas that involve Malcador and the founding of the Inquisition as well as the creation of the grey knights through Garro and the knight's errant and I am questioning this a great deal especially when you really listen to what Malcador is saying and I think the Sigillite definitely is a signifier for this that it seems that he is making the Inquisition without the Emperor's blessing and possibly even knowledge. That the Inquisition was more of Malcador's fail-safe than it was the Emperor's. And if this is true, one has to wonder how he would of procured the gene-see of the Emperor in the first place.
It depends on the sources you read - in some, it was the Emperor himself, in others it was Malcador, and in yet others the Inquisition came into being shortly after the Emperor's "ascension" into the Golden Throne ... ironically with the express purpose of preventing his reincarnation. True to 40k, each of these versions is a valid interpretation of origins muddled by myth and secrecy, the "truth" being whatever the reader wishes to be true.
If you are curious about a less well-known origin story, there is this from GW's Inquisitor game:
Spoiler:
[...] "We cannot risk such a thing!", the first hissed. "What if the spiritual link were severed? What if the person brought back was not the man we once knew? Changed? News of the Emperor's ... ascension is already widespread. He is being revered as a god already on a hundred worlds. In this time of rebuilding, we need a symbol. The Emperor has shown us the way. Anyway, who would believe the Emperor had returned so soon? It will cause a civil war more devastating than that of the fool Horus, and even now we have yet to start counting the cost of that. No, better that this knowledge remains hidden. When we pass on to join the Emperor, it will die with us."
"You cannot deny Mankind the Emperor", a fourth voice, deep and slow, stated firmly. "He and the empire he has built are Mankind's only chance of survival."
The woman and the deep-voiced man both withdrew into the shadows and a moment later the door creaked open, a chill draught causing the candle flame to flit wildly.
"Moriana, Promeus, wait!", the first man called out, but the door slammed shut in answer.
"We cannot let them do this", the hawk-nosed man decided.
"No, we cannot", the first agreed. "We must act quickly, get organised and claim the initiative."
"It shall be done", the other concurred.
Spoiler:
The ideal of restoring the Emperor to the Imperium in mortal form is at the heart of the Inquisition's formation. In the dark days that followed Horus' invasion of Terra and the Emperor's internment in the Golden Throne, the empire he had created was reeling in the aftermath of the civil war and the Emperor's ascension. Four individuals, trusted servants of the Emperor during the building of his galactic empire, gathered together to discuss what was to happen. They were divided in opinion, with two believing that the fledgling Imperium could not survive without the Emperor to directly lead Humanity, while the other two were adamant that the Emperor has ascended to a higher plane and that it was folly to interfere with the course of events as they had unfolded.
The two resurrectionists, known only as Promeus and Moriana, left Terra to begin their quest of bringing back the Emperor, while the two that remained acted quickly to establish themselves with the newly formed Senatorum Imperialis. Known to the Primarchs as loyal servants, these two began to lay the plans for the formation of an organisation that would combat the efforts of the two dissidents. Thus were the seeds of the Inquisition itself sown. With the backing of the Primarchs, the two first Inquisitors made themselves known to the High Lords and began to recruit
like-minded individuals from amongst the adepts and warriors on Terra. Their dream of an organisation dedicated to the protection of the Emperor would not be realised in their lifetimes, even extended as they were by arcane technologies, and the Inquisition as it is seen today did not fully come in to existence until the 32nd millennium, by which time the Imperium itself and its many institutions were beginning to grow and spread across the galaxy.
Promeus and Moriana were not idle during this time, and in the wake of the news of the Emperor's ascension gathered together a following of their own, particularly amongst those cults and sects that were now appearing on many worlds claiming the deification of the Emperor. At some point Moriana and Promeus split, their goal still the same but Moriana determined to use whatever means necessary to achieve her aim. Fearful that Moriana would unleash the unspeakable powers of Chaos to achieve her goal, Promeus created a small army of dedicated followers to combat the menace he believed she posed. These two factions clashed many times until Promeus's disciples prevailed and Moriana disappeared, probably into the Eye of Terror.
As the Inquisition grew and its presence was felt further and further from Terra, it came into contact with the Promeans. Several hundred years had passed since the fateful first conclave, and even then the Inquisition, ever a confederacy of individuals rather than a single body, was pursuing several different agendas. The original intent, to prevent the reincarnation of the Emperor, had been diluted over the centuries, and when the Promeans were discovered fighting against an ill-specified Chaos threat, they were brought into the fold. Neither the Inquisitors that contacted the sect nor the Promeans themselves were aware of the irony of their cooperation, and thus the first resurrectionist Inquisition faction was created.
I think the Inquisition Codex just stated that Malcador started the Inquisition.
History of the Inquisition:
"What almost all the legends agree on, however, is that the Inquisition was founded by Malcador the Sigilite at the Emperor's instruction. As the story goes, in the final days of the Horus Heresy, Malcador brought four men and women before the Emperor, individuals of unblemished loyalty, determination and strength of mind, who would serve him well in the years to come."
Codex: Inquisition - Pg. 6 blurb
You don't see da eyes of da Daemon, till him come callin' - King Willy - Predator 2
Malcador. No two ways about it. GK codex says it, and apparently so does the new C:Inq. The Emperor told him to go find a solution, and Malcador brough the either Marines who would be the first Grey Knights, and 4 Lords to form the Inquisition. The Emperor commissioned it but ultimately Malcador was the creator.
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While the Malcador version is the most current one, I do prefer the classical version where Mel Brooks started it:
Spoiler:
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
Actually, i would argue that Nathaniel Garro and friends from the Eisenstien composed the first Inquisitors, though they were probably not called that. It is their "Messiah" (can't remember her name) who ultimate brings the Divinitatus back to Terra under the threat "Look! I don't care if you want call him God or not, he's what's protecting us from Chaos. Now worship him and build strength."
Just as a thought. Perhaps we could say that Garro and friends were the catalyst for the Inquisitions creation? Malcador himself goes to Garro personally about all of this at one point. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Garro's accounts are what spooked Malcador into action. -shrug-
"Well there's something I've been meaning to tell you about the college on the edge of the town. No one should ever go there. You know it's bad, bad, bad. It gets worse every school year, but man those freaking teachers are raaaaad! Yea-YEAH-yeah yeah." -Babycakes - China, Il.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/559359.page#6178253 <--Link to my CSM Army lists.
Envihon wrote: This would then imply that the Emperor also freely gave his gene-seed in order for the grey knights to be created so that someone can watch the Imperium in case the Emperor ever was removed
...
And if this is true, one has to wonder how he would of procured the gene-see of the Emperor in the first place.
So what do you guys think?
Sorry, I just edited it down to the bits that always bother'd me. How in the Warp does the Emperor have a gene-seed? The gene-seed is a manufactured organ that is present in Space Marines because it is implanted during their ascension from human to super-human. The Emperor was (and to a greater or lesser degree, is) pure human, with none of the genetic modifications present in the Space Marines. We have confirmation from loyalist Astartes (Bjorn the Fel-Handed in particular) and Chaos Marines who lived during the Great Crusade. The only way the Emperor could have a gene-seed is what we're actually calling his gene-seed is a lab grown organ that more closely mimics his own genetic coding, more or less making the Primarch of the Grey Knights the Emperor. I have to question how 'watered-down' such an organ is though...
Again, apologies for this tangent, and to answer, the founder of the Inquisition is currently recorded as Malcador, but previous editions had other creators listed, and future editions may change it yet again.
Alpha Legion: No one knows jack-diddly about them. Even fewer know about Omegon.
Alpha Legion: Using the entire Dark Vengeance starter set. If it's got a geneseed and power armour, it's fair game.
--Armies--
3k Alpha Legion
“A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn.” - Iota, Alpha Legion commander.
2k Order of the Ashen Heart
"Turn them to ash, sisters!" - Canoness Liliana, founder of the Order.
Oh lawd, please tell me there isn't a Grey Knights Primarch.... -__-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/24 08:21:54
"Well there's something I've been meaning to tell you about the college on the edge of the town. No one should ever go there. You know it's bad, bad, bad. It gets worse every school year, but man those freaking teachers are raaaaad! Yea-YEAH-yeah yeah." -Babycakes - China, Il.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/559359.page#6178253 <--Link to my CSM Army lists.
Envihon wrote: This would then imply that the Emperor also freely gave his gene-seed in order for the grey knights to be created so that someone can watch the Imperium in case the Emperor ever was removed
...
And if this is true, one has to wonder how he would of procured the gene-see of the Emperor in the first place.
So what do you guys think?
Sorry, I just edited it down to the bits that always bother'd me. How in the Warp does the Emperor have a gene-seed? The gene-seed is a manufactured organ that is present in Space Marines because it is implanted during their ascension from human to super-human. The Emperor was (and to a greater or lesser degree, is) pure human, with none of the genetic modifications present in the Space Marines. We have confirmation from loyalist Astartes (Bjorn the Fel-Handed in particular) and Chaos Marines who lived during the Great Crusade. The only way the Emperor could have a gene-seed is what we're actually calling his gene-seed is a lab grown organ that more closely mimics his own genetic coding, more or less making the Primarch of the Grey Knights the Emperor. I have to question how 'watered-down' such an organ is though...
Again, apologies for this tangent, and to answer, the founder of the Inquisition is currently recorded as Malcador, but previous editions had other creators listed, and future editions may change it yet again.
Gene-seed is the genetic coding. Progenoid (spell check required) Glands are the organs. The Emperor doesn't have Progenoids, exactly like the Primarchs, but he does have genetic matierial.
So yes, as stated in the GK codex, the "Primarch" of the Grey Knights is the Emperor himself.
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Maybe this is a recap of many posts above, but afair the "story" went this way:
- The Emperor imparts a secret "plan b" mission on Malcador.
- Nathaniel Garro, Iacton Cruze, Mersadie Oliton, the old iterator, the sister of silence and the remembrancer who started the lactitio divinatua (sorry, their names elude me right now) arrive on Terra [on moon, actually] (flight of the eisenstein stuff, mostly)
- Malcador gather these six and sends garro and cruze to gather other marines with - let's call it so - "the right attitude", stripping their armours of ornaments and painting it grey. The knights errant are born.
- Counting Garro and Cruze, and ending with Loken, eight marines are gathered; eight marines who will be the core and the first grand masters of the Grey Knights.
- The four civilians are given by the Sigillite the task of recruiting similar people of "inquisitive minds", effectively starting the Inquisition.
- The Emperor already prepared gene seeds containing parts from his own genetic material, to be implanted into the recruits for the new order of marines. Plus, a smaller part as in the basic genetic code for any marine's geneseed and a good part of each primarch's genetic code (from which, again, stems the most part of each legion's geneseeds). These are the physical reasons, aside metaphysical ones, because Bjorn Fellhanded calls him "the Allfather"
So, again afair, the Inuisition (and GK with it) was designed by the Emperor with Malcador, and started by Malcador with those first four civilians.
Kerrathyr wrote: Maybe this is a recap of many posts above, but afair the "story" went this way:
- The Emperor imparts a secret "plan b" mission on Malcador.
- Nathaniel Garro, Iacton Cruze, Mersadie Oliton, the old iterator, the sister of silence and the remembrancer who started the lactitio divinatua (sorry, their names elude me right now) arrive on Terra [on moon, actually] (flight of the eisenstein stuff, mostly)
- Malcador gather these six and sends garro and cruze to gather other marines with - let's call it so - "the right attitude", stripping their armours of ornaments and painting it grey. The knights errant are born.
- Counting Garro and Cruze, and ending with Loken, eight marines are gathered; eight marines who will be the core and the first grand masters of the Grey Knights.
- The four civilians are given by the Sigillite the task of recruiting similar people of "inquisitive minds", effectively starting the Inquisition.
- The Emperor already prepared gene seeds containing parts from his own genetic material, to be implanted into the recruits for the new order of marines. Plus, a smaller part as in the basic genetic code for any marine's geneseed and a good part of each primarch's genetic code (from which, again, stems the most part of each legion's geneseeds). These are the physical reasons, aside metaphysical ones, because Bjorn Fellhanded calls him "the Allfather"
So, again afair, the Inuisition (and GK with it) was designed by the Emperor with Malcador, and started by Malcador with those first four civilians.
I don't know if I quite feel that the Emperor actually freely gave his gene-seed to Malcador to start the Grey Knights. The more I dig, the more it seems that Malcador started to do things in order to safe guard the Imperium. I do think that the Emperor truly did task Malcador with creating an organization to watch over the Imperium in case things went horribly wrong but I do not think that everything Malcador would have been sanctioned by the Emperor. In The Sigillite, Malcador talks about an on going debate with the Emperor where the Emperor is trying to make the Imperium be able to continue on as it is before the Horus Heresy through Enlightenment but Malcador is of the opinion that the Imperium wouldn't be able to survive without the Emperor and will always need his guidance in order to stay true. If this is Malcador's view, I really don't think he would leave anything up to chance and would take certain liberties without the Emperor's knowledge to safe guard the Imperium. One of these liberties is taking the genetic material of the Emperor in order to create the Grey Knights, the only chapter that hasn't ever fallen to Chaos and who is a beacon of light in purity, man's last defense against Chaos. Malcador has access to all of this as well, he talks constantly of how he was there as the Space Marine Legions were being created, how they were designed to be and how they actually turned out. With this kind of access, Malcador had access to the Emperor's genetic code. Every single Primarch was made from the Emperor's own genetic code only manipulated to enhance certain traits within them to make the Primarchs paragons of certain aspects of the Emperor. This also means Malcador had access to a pure stock of the Emperor's genetic code. With how much Malcador laments over the failings of the Primarchs, I don't think its hard to conclude that during the making of the Grey Knights, he saw that they needed to be pure and have no chance of corruption which would be a danger if a Primarch's gene seed would have been used so he decided to take it from the Emperor himself, unaltered to make sure they would be pure and be able to resist Chaos. Based on the debate Malcador and the Emperor have, I don't think that the Emperor would of wanted a legion made with his own genetic stock and would of stopped Malcador had he known.
Envihon wrote: Based on the debate Malcador and the Emperor have, I don't think that the Emperor would of wanted a legion made with his own genetic stock and would of stopped Malcador had he known.
I don't know...
Maybe, but on the other hand - knowing the downsides of the primarch project - the idea of "normal" marines but incorruptible seems to me as a sort of backup plan... Plan a is the physically+mentally enhanced hyper transhuman (primarch), b is the willpower+faith (sort of) enhanced "normal" transhuman (gk astaretes).
Still it's true that Malcador seems more prone to "by any means" actions (iirc, in Nemesis, Valdor remarks that the Emperor could disapprove the choice of an assassin task force).
Still, in the case of GK + =][= creation, it seems to me that the Sigillite was given absolute freedom, and I doubt the Emperor could miss huge choices like this one... He could even foresee much of the future (being a better psyker than Magnus and a better precog than Sanguinius).
...
Nonetheless, we may have three answers to the op question:
1. =][= was started by big E, deciding it with the Sigillite
2. It was Malcador, choosing civilian and astartes, founding two groups
3. The four civilian themselves, being the founding stones and possibly the ones choosing other members
She went up to the Emperor and said "my boy's being naughty and bad, and I think we should have an organization to keep a watch on him so I can punish him when he acts naughty and bad."
And he said "that is a good idea, except they should watch EVERYONE, and they should also be the hand that punishes too. Thanks, mom!"
... heh... jokes aside... I think the Ordo Malleus was formed by the Emperor while the other Ordos were formed out of splits from it.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Gene-seed is the genetic coding. Progenoid (spell check required) Glands are the organs. The Emperor doesn't have Progenoids, exactly like the Primarchs, but he does have genetic matierial.
So yes, as stated in the GK codex, the "Primarch" of the Grey Knights is the Emperor himself.
From Lexicanum on Gene-seeds
Spoiler:
"Reproduction of gene-seed is possible through the Progenoid glands - an implant whose sole purpose is the replication of gene-seed. A mature gland can be removed by an Apothecary and new organs artificially cultured from them. This is the only source for new implants, so a Chapter depends on its Marines to create other Marines. In the battle-mysticism of the Astartes, the gene-seed is regarded spiritually - though a fallen Marine's body is dead, he lives on as gene-seed which returns to the Chapter (search result for Gene-Seed)"
Also from Lex on the Progeniods
Spoiler:
Progenoids
Phase 18: There are two of these glands, one situated in the neck and the other within the chest cavity. These glands are vitally important and represent the future of the Chapter, as the only way new gene-seed can be produced is by reproducing it within the bodies of the Marines themselves. This is the implant's only purpose. The glands absorb genetic material from the other implanted organs. When they have matured each gland will have developed a single gene-seed corresponding to each of the zygotes which have been implanted into the Marine.
These take time (5 years in the first case, 10 in the latter)[1][2a][3] to mature into gene-seed. The gene-seed can then be extracted and used to create more Space Marines.
I can accept that the Emps MADE the gene-seed (seeing as he made all the primarchs and gene-seed in the first place anyway), it's the flipping wording that bugs me tho. Because gene-seed is a physical object/organ with a set definition and purpose, and can only be produced within the bodies of the marines. Again, the Emperor could just hand-wave all that way, being the Emperor and all, it's just aggravating.
My tangent (which I apologize for) aside, how were the Ordo's set up? That new digital codex got released and what not, but I'm curious on how they drew the lines. Also, how aware is the IoM that inquisitors exist? Malleus they'd be completely in the dark on, but I think the Witch Hunters are more public than that?
Alpha Legion: No one knows jack-diddly about them. Even fewer know about Omegon.
Alpha Legion: Using the entire Dark Vengeance starter set. If it's got a geneseed and power armour, it's fair game.
--Armies--
3k Alpha Legion
“A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn.” - Iota, Alpha Legion commander.
2k Order of the Ashen Heart
"Turn them to ash, sisters!" - Canoness Liliana, founder of the Order.
First off, I draw your attention to the words "reproduce" and "replicate" meaning they can only clone, not create anew. Meaning that they need to get the genetic matierial from somewhere to start, and its pretty well-known that the Space Marines (or at least the organs) were created using the DNA of a Primarch, who were in turn based off the Emperor's DNA. Therefore the Geneseed must come from the Primarch and then the Emperor. Therefore it can be concluded the GK can take His DNA or "gene-seed" as a basis for their organs.
As to stay on topic, I too am wondering about how each was founded. I would agree on the idea of Malleus being top secret but the Xenos and Hereticus more public. Its possible though the average citizen might not know of its existence at all until they exterminatus the plaenet or whatever.
Personally I think each of the 4 Lords who formed it became head of one of the 3 Ordos. Whoever was most secretive and devout, Malleus. The most puritan and relgious, Hereticus. The most radical and/or Xenophobic, Xenos. And the 4th became the Grand Master of the Inquisition. At least that's my view.
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The various factions of the Inquisition are invisible to the average citizen. They see only "The Inquisition", they are unaware of the various factions and philosophies within the Ordos.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
That is how I read it as well. The average Imperial citizen knows what the Inquisition is and knows that if they show up that some serious stuff is going down therefore don't question it at all but doesn't know the various incarnations of the Inquisition itself. The Ordos Malleus being the most secretive since they deal with Chaos directly. It is said that anyone who works with the GK is either killed outright in cases of average citizens or Imperial Guard or has their memory wiped in cases of Space Marines. There are only two chapters that actually know that know that the GK exist and that is the Space Wolves who let to them know in reparations because of what happened on Armageddon and the Blood Ravens who are kept under close eye of the Inquisition for some reason (They are the last loyalist Thousand Sons and don't know it!).
I think all Imperial citizens see the Inquisition and associate everyone in it as Hereticus because that would be their only interaction usually unless something else big was going down. Also, Witch Hunters aren't exactly secretive with their motives either.
I would love some more books or something, to explain the actual foundings of each. Like how eventually it went from Garro doing his thing to the actual order of Grey Knights.
As far as the Emperor's genetic stock, maybe he did know and gave permission when he saw the war with Horus going horribly wrong. Maybe GW keeps this a mystery for this very reason about who is to fully "blame" for the Inquisition. I still like Malcador though.
Deadshot wrote:Personally I think each of the 4 Lords who formed it became head of one of the 3 Ordos. Whoever was most secretive and devout, Malleus. The most puritan and relgious, Hereticus. The most radical and/or Xenophobic, Xenos. And the 4th became the Grand Master of the Inquisition. At least that's my view.
If we are following uncontradicted Codex fluff .. the Inquisition is way larger than just those three Ordos, and indeed it is unclear if even one of them was around from the start. The Ordo Hereticus, for example, did not come into being until after the Age of Apostasy, with the express purpose of preventing its repeat - this is about 6,000 years after the Inquisition was first founded (regardless of the different origin stories, they largely agree on the timeframe).
An Ordo is, in the end, nothing but a network of likeminded Inquisitors who chose to specialise. It has no formal leader, and it has new members joining and old members leaving all the time.
who are kept under close eye of the Inquisition for some reason
Because they have caused the direct Exterminatus of what, three Imperial Worlds now?
They also seem to steal a lot of relics from other Chapters, and were involved in the release of a very powerful daemon on an Imperial World.
Lastly, a huge section of the Chapter turned Traitor.
... that's why the Inquisition keeps an eye on them. They have a terrible track record.
Yes, except depending on which ending is the canon ending to Dawn of War 2 Retribution, the standing of the Blood Ravens is quite different. If the Blood Ravens campaign is true, then well, that large section has been purged and the chapter is virtually rebuilt from the ground up with Gabriel Angelos as the Chapter Master. Any other, well the chapter is virtually destroyed and there is nothing to worry about. Either case means that the chapter has been purged of all chaotic influence therefore not needing Inquisitorial investigation on the matter.
It might be their obsession with gathering knowledge and relics, I will give you that. It is only a matter of time until they uncover, if they haven't already, things of sensitive nature. Also, they don't know their origins which is why they are obsessed with it. Have tons of knowledge stored in various places and like I mentioned before, pretty sure that their parent legion is the Thousand Sons which would be something the Inquisition would keep from them because of the huge impact it would have especially to someone who hates that legion like say the Space Wolves.
Also, its not just an eye they keep on them but also the Inquisition keeps them in the loop of things telling them privileged information that they wouldn't share otherwise so the Inquisition has a special interest in the Blood Ravens past their ability to ruin someone's day.
Per "Space Marine", the canon ending is that the Blood Ravens purge their Chapter of its heretical elements and are then sent on a Penitent Crusade, changing their battle-cry to "None shall find us wanting!".
And... no. Just because you have "rebuilt" your Chapter and supposedly purged it of all heretical taint... it's a really good idea if some outside observers keep an eye on you, just in case, because you lot fethed up real bad in the very recent past, and we're not going to let that happen again.
Personally, I think the 1KS link is weak... and rather fail-sauce, because of the BR history. If they are a 1KS Successor, their actions indicate a very strong propensity for falling to heresy.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Deadshot wrote:Personally I think each of the 4 Lords who formed it became head of one of the 3 Ordos. Whoever was most secretive and devout, Malleus. The most puritan and relgious, Hereticus. The most radical and/or Xenophobic, Xenos. And the 4th became the Grand Master of the Inquisition. At least that's my view.
If we are following uncontradicted Codex fluff .. the Inquisition is way larger than just those three Ordos, and indeed it is unclear if even one of them was around from the start. The Ordo Hereticus, for example, did not come into being until after the Age of Apostasy, with the express purpose of preventing its repeat - this is about 6,000 years after the Inquisition was first founded (regardless of the different origin stories, they largely agree on the timeframe).
An Ordo is, in the end, nothing but a network of likeminded Inquisitors who chose to specialise. It has no formal leader, and it has new members joining and old members leaving all the time.
Within the three main Ordos, their is most certainly a structure otherwise the rankings of Interrogator, Inquisitor and Lord Inquisitor would mean nothing which are three loose ranks that matter. We know that the Lord Inquisitors rule over Sectors for their particular Ordo and have several Inquisitors under them that patrol that sector for their specialization and individual Inquisitors have their Interrogators which can be seen as an Apprentice to eventually become an Inquisitor with the Henchman under the Interrogator. Lord Inquisitors then report directly to the Inquisitorial HQ on Terra.
Are their lots of sub-ordos? Yes but as far as the main three, their is a hierarchy and especially in the Ordos Malleus who is the most militant with a whole Chapter of Space Marines under their care.
Lord Inquisitors are Lord Inquisitors because three other Lord Inquisitors invite them to be Lord Inquisitors. It's not really a "rank" so much as it is a recognition of service rendered to the Imperium and laudable service to the Inquisition. It is, in essence, winning a Grammy for Best Inquisitor. While it carries with it a lot of prestige and influence, it's not a clear-cut "this Lord Inquisitor outranks that Inquisitor" sort of thing.
The reason the Lord is higher ranking is because he or she has more allies, resources and "sway" within the Inquisition, not because there is a flow-chart of so-and-so reports to so-and-so who is the Director of Operations for the northwest sales region. It is a byzantine organization, after all.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Psienesis wrote: Per "Space Marine", the canon ending is that the Blood Ravens purge their Chapter of its heretical elements and are then sent on a Penitent Crusade, changing their battle-cry to "None shall find us wanting!".
And... no. Just because you have "rebuilt" your Chapter and supposedly purged it of all heretical taint... it's a really good idea if some outside observers keep an eye on you, just in case, because you lot fethed up real bad in the very recent past, and we're not going to let that happen again.
Personally, I think the 1KS link is weak... and rather fail-sauce, because of the BR history. If they are a 1KS Successor, their actions indicate a very strong propensity for falling to heresy.
The Thousand Sons link is probably the most convincing for me. For these reasons:
The Blood Ravens are established to have enough similarities in battle doctrine (i.e. high number of psykers and the use thereof) to the Thousand Sons that it has been noted by observers within the fiction itself.
The pre-Heresy heraldry of the Thousand Sons is similar to the heraldry of the Blood Ravens; specifically the Thousand Sons Corvidae cult, who as well as wearing the red armour of all Thousand Sons, also sport a black raven insignia
The psyker Kallista Eris had a vision concerning the fate of the Thousand Sons shortly before the Burning of Prospero. Among other things she mentioned "The Ravens. I see them too. The lost sons and a Raven of blood. They cry out for salvation and knowledge, but it is denied!"
The Blood Ravens' motto "Knowledge is power" was uttered by the Thousand Son Corvidae member Revuel Arvida upon his decision to dedicate himself to discovering the true causes of his Legion's destruction and combat them. Arvida was a member of the fleet-elements of the Thousand Sons who were sent into hiding by Magnus the Red prior to the Space Wolves' attack upon the Legion and therefore did not fall to Chaos during the Burning of Prospero. Thus we have a non-Chaos aligned Corvidae Son dedicating himself to fighting the Ruinous Powers in the future. It is also worth mentioning that his name, Revuel Arvida, has certain stylistic similarities to that of Azariah Vidya, Great Father of the Blood Ravens. This motto was also stated by the Thousand Son Mhotep whilst locked in combat with a daemon.
The Blood Ravens' Rahe's Paradise outpost was discovered to be built upon the ruins of a previous Astartes structure, one that dated from "ten millennia ago". While no identification markings could be found upon it, a red-painted Astartes shoulder plate was excavated from these ruins. Additionally, these ancient Astartes were revealed to have allied themselves with Eldar forces present upon the planet to defeat a great evil, and to have agreed to maintain stewardship over the world in order to thwart this evil should it return. Ten millenia ago references the birth of the Imperium, although the Thousand Sons were not the only Astartes Legion to wear red as their primary colour at this time, seeing as the Blood Angels continue to do so.
During an incident on the planet Arcadia, Librarian Rhamah of the Blood Ravens suffered amnesia and fell in with the Prodigal Sons warband of Thousand Sons sorcerer-lord Ahzek Ahriman. Throughout this association Ahriman and his warband referred to Rhamah variously as "Son of Ahriman", "friend of Ahriman" and as a "lost brother". Furthermore, when Rhamah locates an ancient Eldar tome - called the Un-Founding - that bears the crest of the Blood Ravens upon its cover, Ahriman concedes that he once owned a copy of the book and that another one was in the possession of Azariah Vidya (of whom Ahriman states, "I knew Vidya better than you might expect"). He further states to Rhamah "We are not so different, you and I. We were not always so different...there was a time, long ago, before the Change, when the Thousand Sons of Magnus wore the blood-red armour of their Primarch.
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Psienesis wrote: Lord Inquisitors are Lord Inquisitors because three other Lord Inquisitors invite them to be Lord Inquisitors. It's not really a "rank" so much as it is a recognition of service rendered to the Imperium and laudable service to the Inquisition. It is, in essence, winning a Grammy for Best Inquisitor. While it carries with it a lot of prestige and influence, it's not a clear-cut "this Lord Inquisitor outranks that Inquisitor" sort of thing.
The reason the Lord is higher ranking is because he or she has more allies, resources and "sway" within the Inquisition, not because there is a flow-chart of so-and-so reports to so-and-so who is the Director of Operations for the northwest sales region. It is a byzantine organization, after all.
Yes but within Ravenor, this subject is explored and Ravenor is shown to report directly to the Lord Inquisitor of his sector. Similarly, all Inquisitors of the Ordos Malleus in the Formosa Sector report directly to Lord Inquisitor Coteaz. It isn't a strict ranking system but it certainly exists. They even talk saying that some do not wish to become Lord Inquisitor because your job becomes more of a paper pusher, filing reports and sending them to Terra than it becomes about going out and fighting Chaos. It also becomes a political game with the possibility of even going on to serving on Terra itself, again, that is from Ravenor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/25 23:11:17
Interesting, though - I didn't know of this interpretation, as I've pretty much only read how the Codices deal with the topic. Which is what Psienesis had already described above.
Knowing the various versions of things at least helps to avoid misunderstandings.
I wouldn't really agree on Interrogators (or other stations) already having any sort of relevance for the Inquisition at large, though. Their role is confined to the Inquisitor they are serving; they are a member of their retinue in much the same way as a freelance bounty hunter, a Tech-Priest, a useful alien, or a Space Marine - even though only the Interrogator may some day become an Inquisitor themselves.
[edit] Or is this different in the "Daniverse" as well?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/26 00:10:12
From what I gather, though he doesn't go into great detail, the Interrogator is still the "apprentice", though some Inquisitors apparently have several of them at the same time, and sometimes there are classes of them... kind of like Commissars, I think? From some of Abnett's background fluff on the Inquisition, which has also made its way into DH, I get the impression that you can walk up to an Inqusitorial Conclave and put in a job application.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Alright, thanks for the clarification. And yeah, I recall Dan Abnett being credited as having done some writing for Dark Heresy. Mostly fleshing out the Calixis sector, I think?
You don't see da eyes of da Daemon, till him come callin' 
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