Crisis suits vs. Vespids

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**Sir Arun**

I'm really trying to understand how Vespids work but I fail to see them bring anything to the table that the rest of the Tau army doesn't already do better.

Here's the way I break them down - by comparing a 5 man squad of Vespids (led by a Strain Leader) for 100 points to 2 XV-8 Crisis suits armed with 2 plasma rifles each (104 points)

Both crisis and vespids have BS3

The crisis suits can dish out 4 S6 AP2 shots at 24" range or 8 S6 AP2 shots at 12" range

The Vespids can dish out 5 S5 AP3 shots at 18" range - this is just 1 more shot than the Crisis suits at a range between 12"-18", but all of them at -1S and at AP3. So it is safe to say that the Crisis suits definitely win hands down in the Firepower department.

Both crisis and vespids can move, shoot and assault

Now when it comes to close combat, the Crisis suits have S5, while the Vespids have S3, but the Vespids have more attacks, a very high initiative compared to most races, and higher WS. They also come with Hit & Run, while the crisis can purchase this for extra points, but only have a small chance of actually being able to use it due to their low initiative unless they purchase drones as well. Verdict: Vespids are better in close combat. However, neither of them should be in close combat in the first place.

Next up, defense. The suits (4 wounds total) and Vespids (5 wounds total) both share T4, but the Vespids only have a 4+ armor save compared to the crisis' 3+ armor and ability to purchase shield generators or use drones as ablative wounds to prevent early ID. I'd say the crisis suits are better at taking punishment.

Mobility: Being Jetpack units, the crisis suits can JSJ, and therefore exploit LoS blocking, while the Vespids are Jump infantry and therefore cannot do this. Both can deep strike, and Vespids benefit from greater movement distance or, if they move like normal infantry, from HoW attacks on charge. They also have move through cover and gain +1 to their cover save in ruins, so being being able to JSJ isnt too much of a loss. I'd say it's a tie in this department.

All in all, I think the Vespids add nothing that a Tau army needs that isnt provided by Crisis suits. Thoughts?

**Lucarikx**

Wasn't the general consensus(from when the codex got updated) that Vespid are trash?

Lucarikx

**juraigamer**

Provided you can get some markerlights to vespid, they obliterate MEQ and most MC. Point for point, wound for wound, they are deadly, but fragile.

The main issue, is that vespid take up slots were you can put markerlights in. Combine that with a short-ish range (though it got longer in this book) and weak armor, they have trouble.

When you do the points, battlesuits with dual plasma get expensive, though battle suits are better at rapid fire range don't forget this gets them close to the enemy, which is a bad place.

Vespid with an attached battlesuit IC with some boosting wargear and the ability to tank wounds makes them deadly and allows battlesuits to focus on other targets.

**Vineheart01**

Vespid are, in my opinion, a joke by GW to see if anyone is seriously dumb enough to buy a cool model without looking at their rules. Vespid look cool, but thats it lol. They were trash in the old dex and iirc they didnt even get a single change in the new dex, even a price cut.

I'd rather field an Ionhead for AP3 capabilities. Point for point, slightly more expensive, but 60" is basically table range and a durable skimmer vehicle compared to 4+ armor. Usually when you actually need to deal with marines quickly its devastators in the backfield (range ftw) or termies, which case AP3 means nothing. The rest fall to simple ROF from the rest of our army.

**Thud**

Take three maxed out squads and pretend you really know what you're doing during the pre-game set-up. Your opponent will get really confused and start thinking there's something really clever he's been missing all along and start second-guessing himself. Then proceed to destroy his army as he deploys all his vehicles facing you with their rear armour, runs at you with his scoring units, and reserves his heavy hitters, as his brain has completely imploded.

**Savageconvoy**

The problem with Vespid is that they have a short range weapon, while the shorter range weapons on Crisis suits and gundrones are mitigated by their ability to jump back after getting into range to shoot.

They excel at one job in an entire codex that's filled with units flexible enough to cover multiple roles. They kill marines in a codex that is filled with basic weapons that can kill GEQ, MEQ, Light vehicles, and MC.

**Sir Arun**

But the problem is, even at the job Vespids excel (taking out marines), dual plasma crisis suits and ionheads can get this done with the same amount of, if not higher effectivity.

It is true that Vespids got a lot better than what they were in the previous dex, but because everything around them got better as well, they are just as useless as before, if not even more so due to the new units (Ionheads, Riptides etc.) This is codex creep in its classic form.

**Vineheart01**

funny thing i thought was that their ROF was lousy. I dont even consider them good at anti-marine which is what theyre suppose to do lol.

I might get some in the far future just to say i have some, but never use.

**Ovion**

Yeah, they're marine killers, but point for point, marines will kill more vespid than vespid can kill marines.

In turn, Fire Warriors, Hammerheads, Crisis Suits, Stealth Suits, Kroot, Sniper Drones and Riptides are all point for point killier and more survivable.

**Co'tor Shas**

I find them to only really be good in cityfight. The stealth in ruins, move though cover and jump infantry, does help them a lot, as well as the cramped environments help them get in range, otherwise they are rather pointless.

**Sir Arun**

Yeah, I imagine their only use is in an armylist where all Elites sections are full, and where the terrain is so dense that you know you wont be taking markerlights, and when you know you'll be facing AA-heavy marines you'll fill your FA slots with Vespids

However, if GW had given them Assault 2 weapons, OR made their Neutron Blasters AP2, they would have been competetive, dont you agree?

**Co'tor Shas**

Sir Arun wrote:
Yeah, I imagine their only use is in an armylist where all Elites sections are full, and where the terrain is so dense that you know you wont be taking markerlights, and when you know you'll be facing AA-heavy marines you'll fill your FA slots with Vespids

However, if GW had given them Assault 2 weapons, OR made their Neutron Blasters AP2, they would have been competetive, dont you agree?

Then, definitely.

**Vineheart01**

If they were assault 2 i think you would see people fielding a lot of vespid. That would actually be a very good buy for the cost they are now - risk of countercharge due to 18" and no jsj but hit hard as hell in exchange.

Or, make them a true melee unit. Nothing crazy but something that supports their anti-marine capabilities, either by reliably wounding, penning armor, weight of attacks, or god forbid an armor save modifier lol. Actually i wish they did that since then Farsight would have a unit he actually wants to be with lol. Badass HQ, but his job is a lone wolf because the ENTIRE ARMY doesnt support his job.

**BoomWolf**

It didn't even need to be Assault 2, even a mere Rapid Fire with range 18" (so double tap at 9") would make them viable with the plan of "get close, blast away, assault the survivors for confusion, hit-and-run, repeat"

But alas, it seems that somebody in GW just doesn't like vespid. they never seem to quite know what they even intend to do.

**Sir Arun**

Agree. Rapid-fire would have been great for 18 points per model. Perhaps also give them rending claws that only work on infantry i.e. AP3 (not 2) on 6s in cc, they have a set each so 2 base attacks in cc.