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 Tower75 wrote:
Consistency!

Ah but you see Games Workshop is clever when it comes to this. All the Codices, the information in the rulebook, the BL books, FFG RPGs etc, all of that 'information' is meant to be read as half-truths, myths, legends, bloated stories - essentially it's possibly factually incorrect due to the same story being told again and again but by different people - thus it becomes distorted and different - two accounts of the same thing will most likely disagree with each other.

Personally I actually like that. Yes it's 'lazy' but it gives that element of personal choice in deciding what is what in 40k. I like that freedom, that I can turn around and say 'No, I don't think it was a Custodes who prevented Horus from striking down the Emperor on Horus's flagship. The fight actually took place in the Imperial Palace & it was an Imperial Army soldier by the name of Ollanius Pius who stepped in between Horus & the Emperor. Thus the Imperium, in the form of Pius, came to the Emperor's aide to protect him in his hour of need as the Emperor had protected humanity in it's hour(s) of need.'

 Pilau Rice wrote:
The decision to write the Heresy Series.

It would be left a dark time of legend...

I agree with this.

 Selym wrote:

nomotog wrote:

 Selym wrote:

nomotog wrote:
I would delete the SMs. They aren't all that exciting or fun to read about and pulling them out would give a lot more room for other fractions. Like you could fit in a lot more sister fluff, IG fluff, or even admech fluff.

I'd just tone down the loyal SM's prominence. Proper CSM's are badass though - they have the whole "Humanity created the most evil thing in the universe" vibe.

Ya that world work rather well. Maybe something along the lines of most or all of the SM legions going to chaos or being destroyed.

*calm, wistful voice*
I'd like that.
That'd be nice.

*evil voice*
AND THEN THE GALAXY SHALL BURN!!


(Sorry, I'm a heretic )

You would end up seeing a lot more of the SoB in that case. I don't think chaos would win automatically.

A heretic can dream, can't he?

 uk_crow wrote:
Necrons in their entirety, they are just a 'my dad can beat up your dad' army, who have no weaknesses, are immortal and are more numerous than humans. Complete bull, they define the phrase Mary Sue.

This

knas ser wrote:
Orks have gotten a little out of hand with ideas about how their technology is really fake but works because they believe it does. Silly. It was better when they were really crude and occasional savant like orks (mekboyz) built things that were brilliant hold-overs of technology buried in ork genes, but still were crude and unreliable even if fantastic. Now there's a lot of "perfect race" and "ork tech scales to meet the opposition". Not sure how much of that is cannon and how much is just people on forums, but orks are getting a bit too much

And that

Anything that makes the Chaos Marines look like "Misunderstood Heroes". I want my nazi warriors with only a dash of humanity to give them some relatability.

None of that "Not quite good guys" crap.

...would bring about a pretty strong insinuation of split-personalities in nurgle marines when they range from bromance to genocide at the drop of a hat.

I would love the old version of Ollanius Pius' last stand. I love that story, its symbol of IG and gave fluff something I miss when Im reading for example GK Codex or the last version of Ollanius story (I dont meen it badly, its just two completely different styles how to approach heroic genre for me).

And it reminds me Steven Erikson, so...

 chromedog wrote:
Change the marines back to the way they were in RT and lose the crusading space knights shtick.

Or make them hardcore Powered armour special forces that specialise in surgical strikes (no tanks) - walkers and power armour suits.

The other thing is that ARTILLERY does not belong on the tabletop in this scale. Remove it and make it off board stuff (that you have to pay for and make a roll for it to come on - like the orbital strikes that the daemon and witch hunters used to get.

Good call chromedog my friend from oz. You know your stuff. I was just flicking through the RT rulebook a few weeks ago and was stunned at how far my own head had moved from the original marine feel.
Artillery ruins guard, guard models are cool and they have the possibility of so many options without going for mass amounts of oversized guns that are out of place on a small battlefield.

But having those guns is fun as hell.

Troike wrote:retcon the Bloodtide

Yes. Along with other instances of SoB-bashing idiocy.

da001 wrote:I would retconn:

Marines:
Their numbers. I would go with 10000 per chapter. Still silly, but way better than 1000 guys patrolling the galaxy. So much this.
Their personality. More zealot monks, instruments of the most brutal tyranny ever and killing machines. Less "we are the good guys".
Black Templars hating psykers because the Edict of Nikaea again.
White Scars getting back their self-mutilation and skull-collecting rituals
The Sanguinor. Out with it. It is a cheap copy paste of a Living Saint. With nipples. Along with all the other nipple-armour the Blood Angels have.
Grey Knights being the army of all inquisitors. They should be the last resort for the Ordo Malleus.
Flesh Eaters having disappeared.
Super Mega Master Kaldor Draigo.

Chaos:
Getting Chaos Undivided back again. Minor Gods, independent daemons... the infinite ways of Chaos.
The Lost and the Damned should get more stuff. There are billions of them for every Chaos Space Marine. And some of them are really cool in the background.
No more Failabbadon. Most crusades didn´t involve Abbadon at all. Create some cool Chaos leaders (some of them human instead of Astartes would be even better) and let them fail for 10000 years.
Malice back to business.

Tyranids:
Getting Genestealer Cults and Zoats back again. Not a fan of Zoats, but cults would be nice. As it is, the name 'gene-stealer' doesn't actually mean anything, since they don't 'steal genes' any more.

Necrons:
Back to third edition or, even better, getting both newcrons and oldcrons as different factions.
Some C´tan survived and are still free. The Dragon on Mars, The Outsider... All of the new Necron fluff. Tomb Kings in Space. The Silent King leaving the galaxy and just so happening to leave in an exact collision course with the Tyranids, then running home to tell everyone. Trollzyn. Tea parties. The Celestial Orrery, and all that nonsense.
The Enslavers won (or ended) the War in Heaven again. Did this change?

The story:
Another vote for "Ollanius Pious was a man". Making him a perpetual absolutely breaks the character. What´s the point? He "sacrificed" himself for the Emperor? He is immortal, he was back to life in ten seconds. It cheapens the story to the point of making it utterly meaningless.
Perpetuals. Never existed. Yes. They are definitely among the stupidest bits of fluff out there. Especially that Ollanius was apparently an Argonaut...
Signus Prime being an astartes victory. It was not! The fight between Ka´Bhanda and Sanguinous was amazing as it was orignally written. They have broken it.
Alpharius and the Cabal. Getting Alpharius back to the Index Astartes.
Corax surviving the Drop-Site massacre thanks to the Alpha Legion. Aaargh...
Corax being fooled by the Alpha Legion regarding his experiments. Aaaaarghhh....
Alpharius turning traitor following orders from xenos then killing the xenos´ representative for no reason. Aaaaaaargh....
Alpha Legionaries killing each other as idiots while blindly following orders of someone they do not even know who he is any longer. Aaaaaaaaaargh... As an Alpha Legion fan and player, I wholeheartedly agree.
Anything ever written about the survivals of the loyal Legions of the Drop-Site massacre. It reeks of mary-sueism.
Everything we know about the Lion´s motivations.

Iron_Captain wrote:The Codex Astartes. Especially the way in which chapters are organised. The organisation in the Codex is probably the least effective way to organise an army ever.

Here's my list of stuff:

The method by which the Codex Astartes dictates a Battle-Brother is trained. It's completely idiotic. When you learn how to use a Heavy Bolter, you will then learn how to use a jump pack and chainsword. Only then may you become a Tactical Marine and get a bolter and knife, because it makes you 'flexible'.

Marneus Calgar's blatant favoritism in the fluff. Generally, retcon the Ultramarines to be as they were before all the fanboying, when they were actually pretty cool. Also, retcon "All Space Marines want to be Ultramarines" and "Robot Girlyman's wound is healing!!!", as well as the Battle for Macragge being not all that difficult. Oh, and The Swarmlord managing to completely fail to kill Calgar by cleaving him in half or anything, instead managing to expertly miss him just enough to slice off all of his limbs and put out one of his eyes, even though this would actually be more of a challenge for it than killing him (it's very big, and it's extraordinarily skilled). Amusingly, his "Gauntlets of Ultramar" were looted from a Champion of Chaos.

The Daemonculaba.

The Space Wolves being Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves in Asgard Armour with Norsemissiles. Also Fenrisian Wolves of Fenris. Wolf wolf wolves of wolf. Also the implied werewolves.

Retcon all instances of The Avatar of Khaine appearing in stories to make it actually have a significant impact instead of just being immediately roflstomped by the nearest Space Marine.

Make Fulgrim as he was before - possessed by a daemon. I believe it was the Horus Heresy novels that changed this completely and just made him evil.

Make the Sisters of Battle badass again. Oh, and give them an actual Codex for once. On that note, put in some actual decent female characters for once. Inquisitor Adrastia is a good start.

Represent Slaanesh in a more fitting manner and not neglect all of its other aspects, because it's bad enough that every perverted hormonal neckbeard loves to talk about it being the Chaos God of Sex and ignores everything about beauty and the pursuit of perfection (and how its Cult Marines are known for their dubstep more than anything else). Furthermore, give more attention to the more subjectively positive aspects of the Chaos Gods, like honour (Khorne) and hope (Tzeentch), and make them sound more like abstract entities and less like four giant one-dimensional villains sitting around the table in the Lair of Evil, twisting their moustaches and saying "Myeh! What dastardly deeds shall we inflict upon the Imperium next? Myeh!". Also, add more variation to Daemons. This is Chaos, after all. Obviously infinite variety is impossible when models have to be made, but it's disappointing that every Bloodletter looks the same. There should be more varieties of Daemon and more variation within them. As for the Chaos Gods, less treatment of Daemons like they're people. I'd make them more abstract, "an impossible abstraction made real only by metaphor and roiling emotions of mortal minds", the Daemon codex calls the Warp. Seeing them on mounts and in vehicles just makes them feel more like a race of aliens rather than creatures from the infinite impossibilities of the Warp.

I'm sure are more things.

EDIT: Make Castellen Crowe the Supreme Grand Master.

EDIT2: Oh, and the "Hunters from Hyperspace" special rule. It sounds ludicrous. Also, Necron tiaras.

EDIT3: Anyone who's seen me around dakka will probably know that I have a tendency to edit my posts too much. I'll stop now, but I'd really like to see the Red Angel do something. I love it, simply because it was like "I am the Red Angel" and Horus' advisor was like "That's Angron's name, he'll be offended" and it was just cool and basically said "I don't care, he can fight me for it, he's a noob".

The entire Horus Heresy series.

Anyway, besides that I'd up the Space Marine's numbers, say a million men per chapter. The "million guys in the whole galaxy" thing is something I've never really been able to accept, try as I might. A billion Marines or so is still small - so they can keep their rare elite status - but I feel that it gives them a little bit more padding in terms of how many could reasonably die and what a Chapter could really do.

Oh, and let's not forget the Blood Angels losing pretty much their entire Chapter on a Space Hulk.

EDIT: I'd love to get rid of the idiotic use of binary when referring to the Necrons.

@Frozen Ocean:

I'd actually want to keep the Daemonculaba - it's one damn grimdark way of making new CSM.

Daemonculaba are pretty fun.
Whenever I can get the name right anyway.

The bit about Ultramarines being the best of the best. Don't hate them, I just don't like ranking armies like that.

Khornate Grey Knights.

The Allies table - I want that shiz re-written.

What DA001, and Frozen Ocean said pretty much.

Also, the Pandorax novel where Azrael gets represented as being a total asshat, and always trying to hinder the always ever ultra cool/right in everything he does Kaldor Draigo.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Pretty much the whole thing Im not really a fan of the 40k or warhammer fluff. But i like some of the ideas and settings and the freedom you have with the imperial guard. Other that i pretty much would retcon all the back-story, 40K has gone way too over the top and verges on stupidity.

So for a more precise answer i'd retcon it back to a more serious adulty theme and story.

Comes to the 40k background forum to tell everyone he doesn't like 40k background.

I would Retcon Necrons and BA working together. It just plain doesn't make sense.

I'd get rid of every story about Imperial Guard commanders being incompetent fools born to do nothing but throw away the lives of their men. As it stands now, and from what I've read on the subject, officers go through schools to learn about command and warfare for a longer amount of time than modern day officers do. We don't throw away lives, so where is the disconnect here exactly?

Commander Chenkov. Him a thousand times over. If he was really in charge of anything and acted the way he does he'd be fired in an hour. Lunacy.

 Ignatius wrote:
I'd get rid of every story about Imperial Guard commanders being incompetent fools born to do nothing but throw away the lives of their men. As it stands now, and from what I've read on the subject, officers go through schools to learn about command and warfare for a longer amount of time than modern day officers do. We don't throw away lives, so where is the disconnect here exactly?

Commander Chenkov. Him a thousand times over. If he was really in charge of anything and acted the way he does he'd be fired in an hour. Lunacy.

40k fluff for guardsman actually has a decent explanation for that. Not all commanders deserve their position. Guardsman represent many things at once and many. different cultures. In certain places leadership is passed down nobility, others wealth, some trained some not, some that regard human life expendable (particularly if slavish death worlders), and many other less... wise ways to get leadership. At the same time, many likely have commanders that truly deserve command. In the end though, it all comes down to whether the ends bring enough of a profit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rippy wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Pretty much the whole thing Im not really a fan of the 40k or warhammer fluff. But i like some of the ideas and settings and the freedom you have with the imperial guard. Other that i pretty much would retcon all the back-story, 40K has gone way too over the top and verges on stupidity.

So for a more precise answer i'd retcon it back to a more serious adulty theme and story.

Comes to the 40k background forum to tell everyone he doesn't like 40k background.

I would Retcon Necrons and BA working together. It just plain doesn't make sense.

Ummmm.... 40k was never that serious to begin with . Started as a parody and became OTT grim dark whilst having daemons and psykers running around screaming (also adulty is an odd term. Good or bad?)

I would drop the entire ward GK codex fluff. It all just reads like bad fan fiction. Oh boy the Grey Knights save the day again with ease, what a surprise. I liked it better when they were fighting an impossible battle against chaos. Even in the novels the Grey Knights get their butts kicked hard.

That said, make Chaos an actual threat again rather than being the team rocket of sphesss.

also retcon the new C'tan fluff. I actually like the idea of lords having personality glitches.

I think the ''GK are the best and kick daemon ass left and right without breaking a sweat'' was made for marketing purposes, or at least to leave the customer satisfied that he chose this army to play. ''If he's happy about his army kicking butt he sure will buy more of our products, right?!''

or maybe Matt Ward is just a terrible writer.

Not trying to start a Ward hate argument here, don't worry. :-p

Or maybe they told him what to write, and he wrote it.

I miss when GK's were darker though, they cared nothing about lives, they cared nothing about people. The fact people got upset they killed a few sisters is weird when they used to purge entire populations just for knowing about daemons, and it took them restraint just avoid killing those they felt was 'warp touched' Whether human, or Space Marine.

They were never good, they were all about killing those Warp Infested beings and those that would summon them.

Give harlequins a codex (or supplement) again.

Selym wrote:@Frozen Ocean:

I'd actually want to keep the Daemonculaba - it's one damn grimdark way of making new CSM.

It's completely over the top and reads like a rape/pregnancy fetish fanfic.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Or maybe they told him what to write, and he wrote it.

I miss when GK's were darker though, they cared nothing about lives, they cared nothing about people. The fact people got upset they killed a few sisters is weird when they used to purge entire populations just for knowing about daemons, and it took them restraint just avoid killing those they felt was 'warp touched' Whether human, or Space Marine.

They were never good, they were all about killing those Warp Infested beings and those that would summon them.

No faction in 40k is 'good'. People get upset because Sisters are horribly under-represented and when they are, all too often they're just there to be the subject of a mass slaughter, not because the Sisters are the good guys and the good guys should never die.

The allies chart.

I'm fine with everything else.

If I could retcon....I know earlier a lot of people stated they wanted the 'Nids gone, but I love them to death (first army).

I would like their old fluff back; I was not keen on the idea that the Tyranids had all of their units from the beginning. I loved the idea that they stole DNA and adapted new creatures. Ie, Ork genes created biovours, eldar genes created Zoanthropes etc. I am sad that they took that away; kind'a ruined the whole gimmick of what genestealers actually do...Which I want cults back

Also, If you could call it a retcon; I would love it if the story of 40k moved past the 13th black crusade, and the world wide campaign mattered at least fluff wise.

Lastly, I would like more time travel shenanigan. Some 30k marines coming in, maybe a primach story of him coming for a visit and then going back; maybe some dark age of technology humans coming for a visit. Etc.

I never liked the idea of Tyranids picking up DNA from things. It doesn't make a lot of sense. DNA doesn't work like "here is the strong gene" and "here is the smart gene". Besides, as masters of genetic manipulation, if they wanted to create such things, why didn't they do it before? I know the Biovore logic is supposedly spores, but it really isn't at all similar to an Ork. Eating Space Marines to give them greater toughness/strength just means that the Tyranids don't know how to add greater muscle density.

Zoanthropes would possibly make more sense if they accessed the Warp, because they could have learned by studying Eldar DNA how they manage psychic potential. But because Tyranid psychic power doesn't work that way, it doesn't make sense either.

It would kind of be like The Imperium finding Eldar shuriken weapons and adapting them to create large flying discs that they mount turrets on, because they're both shuriken-y. Or copying Tau Pulse technology and making plasma swords that also reduce the wielder's BS to 2 for no reason.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I miss when GK's were darker though, they cared nothing about lives, they cared nothing about people. The fact people got upset they killed a few sisters is weird when they used to purge entire populations just for knowing about daemons, and it took them restraint just avoid killing those they felt was 'warp touched' Whether human, or Space Marine.

People got upset about the SoB massacre because it was so stupid. The SoB are making a last stand against the demonic assault (and remaining pure in the process), so as soon as the GK arrive they go slaughter the SoB, paint themselves with their blood, and then slaughter everything else on the planet. It takes the whole "do whatever it takes" thing to the point of absurdity and makes the GK into Khorne cultists.

 Peregrine wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I miss when GK's were darker though, they cared nothing about lives, they cared nothing about people. The fact people got upset they killed a few sisters is weird when they used to purge entire populations just for knowing about daemons, and it took them restraint just avoid killing those they felt was 'warp touched' Whether human, or Space Marine.

People got upset about the SoB massacre because it was so stupid. The SoB are making a last stand against the demonic assault (and remaining pure in the process), so as soon as the GK arrive they go slaughter the SoB, paint themselves with their blood, and then slaughter everything else on the planet. It takes the whole "do whatever it takes" thing to the point of absurdity and makes the GK into Khorne cultists.

Let's not forget that there is no basis for them to think that this ritual will work as opposed to their warded armour and their own auras of purity. Furthermore, the story says that a number of Sisters survived to fight through the Bloodtide, only to be killed by Bloodletters (failing to have any actual positive impact on the story except to increase the Bloodtide's power through their deaths). Surely, if there are Sisters who endure it (really, all of them should be able to, but I digress), the Super-Deluxe-Mega-Supreme-Pure-Divine Grey Knights (in their Aegis Armour no less) would be able to, as well (not to mention being psykers, and therefore able to cast wards on themselves)? Does this mean that GK are powerless to stop a Bloodtide unless there are Sisters nearby to slay in the name of the Blood God to make into a smoothie to ward themselves with?

EDIT: The Grey Knights Codex neglects to mention that the Bloodtide is not of Chaos, but of ancient technology. Which, although kind of stupid, makes the story make even less sense (the story is also called The Bloodtide Returns, implying a, you know, return).

I agree that bringing the slann back is a cool idea. Especially if they have spent the last 400 million years perfecting anti neckbeardcron weapons and tactics. Give at least some sort of credible threat to the marysuecrons. Maybe the eldar find them in a protective spiritual dimension within the warp. Then it becomes a big effort to awaken them and bring then back into reality. That would also give the space elves something to do other than star in space marine snuff films