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 Kaiserbudheim wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:


Commander Chenkov. Him a thousand times over. If he was really in charge of anything and acted the way he does he'd be fired in an hour. Lunacy.

A MILLION TIMES THIS. And he earns medals for his actions?! I've always hated Chenkov. I get it that they're trying to make it a grim dark setting, but that's just…NO. How is it we have brilliant IG commanders like Gaunt and Al'Rahem, Creed and Kell…yet they dare lump this worthless a__hat among them?

Chenkov is great. He shows different face of IG. Some commanders are delicate tacticians, others use mass infantry waves because there is plenty of bodies. He fits perfectly into vast universe where are different strategies, politics and so on. As I dislike "IG is useless, lets send our heroic spes mehreens who are the only savious of humankind" Im not fan of "IG is sophisticated modern army with combined arms doctrine"...for that is IG too big and in it lies most of the fun with it. DKoK are great example of those different faces

I'd do away with the Necrons and the Grey Knights. Both are to hard to beat in game and both have horrible fluff. The Crons as a stalking, silent, quick strike and gone raider force, that while able to repair damage couldn't afford to lose troops and thus would 'phase out' to preserve the remnants if things went bad was cool.

Grey Knights on the other hand shouldn't even BE their own army. They are a part of the Inquisition and thus a small part. You should at most see a squad in a 2000-2500 point game, let alone their army. They don't have the numbers, or drive to engage most armies expect Chaos, and Daemons. Nids? Don't care, Eldar? Eh...only if they have an avatar. Tau? We have guard for this. etc. etc. The whole actions after the 1st war for Armageddon put the nail in the coffin for me. They are just as evil and bad as Chaos.

Also remerge Chaos Space Marines and Daemons. They should have NEVER been separated. Daemons NEED CSM's and their cultists to even get IN to real space.

Not necessarily, strong warpstorms can do it as well (very rarely). That being said, I do admit I never bring daemons in low point games unless it is in support of my CSM, IG, or I have a support of CSM.

I must say, I'd also like to retcon the Thousand Son siege of Space Wolves planet (mainly because magnus seems to forget he's a fething primarch and a daemon prince). I get the notion, but when you have 700 or so thousand sons, powerful sorcerers, a primarch daemon prince, and then hordes of trained sorcerer troops blasting at your foretress, really? I'd trade that out for an explanation of like how the Thousand Sons function. 1000 guys that lose some? How do you bring suits back? Can the sorcerers produce geneseed (rubric of ahriman and all how it makes them impossible to corrupt)? If used on a sorcerer does it ignore the rubric and automatically make them a super buffed psyker because of the rubric or maybe they become another one?

Oh, and pretty much all of the Horus Heresy (don't get me wrong, a few are good/decent and quite a few bring up interesting ideas but at the same time they ruin the ambiguous nature of the mythos)

I'd add an adeptus mechanicus army. Just the thought of skitarii, all kinds of servitors and huge loads of tanks brings a smile to my face.

Honestly im still a little butt-hurt over the Necron fluff, so I'd retcon large parts back to what it was in 3rd ed. I personally liked it better when Necrons were merciless death bots (and the hopelessness that came with fighting them, like you were fighting against your own mortality) and how their technology inspired awe by how advanced it was (Like how Gauss weapons were seen as an impossibility by the person analyzing it, and how Necrons used inertia-less drived for FTL travel, but now they have to leech off of the Eldar/Old One technology and force their way into the webway). Or how the Necron robot slaves just decided to turn against the C'tan on a whim, were the star vampires so stupid to not program obedience into their robots?

Note: Not all the fluff is bad, there are silver linings that improved (like dynasties giving a reason for different colour schemes and infighting)

The C'Tan didn't come up with the idea of bio-transference. It's a wholly Necrontyr invention. That is, perhaps, the greatest horror of the War in Heaven.

DkLnBr wrote:
Honestly im still a little butt-hurt over the Necron fluff, so I'd retcon large parts back to what it was in 3rd ed. I personally liked it better when Necrons were merciless death bots (and the hopelessness that came with fighting them, like you were fighting against your own mortality) and how their technology inspired awe by how advanced it was (Like how Gauss weapons were seen as an impossibility by the person analyzing it, and how Necrons used inertia-less drived for FTL travel, but now they have to leech off of the Eldar/Old One technology and force their way into the webway). Or how the Necron robot slaves just decided to turn against the C'tan on a whim, were the star vampires so stupid to not program obedience into their robots?

Note: Not all the fluff is bad, there are silver linings that improved (like dynasties giving a reason for different colour schemes and infighting)

You can still have that 3rd ed feel even now:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/509156.page#5310885

Legion of the Damned, the Sanguinor, and any other super special power armor wearing entities that inexplicably drop in to save power armored Space marines.

Space Wolves riding wolves.

BS 3 WS 3 Blood Claws. (And no I don't care for their reasoning. A drop in leadership would have sufficed)

I'd lose the machine spirit concept. You mean to tell me there's an entity you have to appease in my lawnmower? It's just a dumb concept.

I would keep the Tech priest rites the same, but base it more on superstition, rather than actual reality. Like a Manticore getting pissed because you didn't put a little more elbow grease in cleaning it, so it fires all it's missile's at once.

It is all superstition though...

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It is all superstition though...

It's not though, the machine spirit really does exist. it's not just unfounded superstition fluffwise.

If by machine spirit you mean a combination of AI programs they don't really understand and the fact that "clap your hands if you believe" actually works because lolWarp.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It is all superstition though...

I'd Retcon anything written by any of the 40k fluff writers that wasn't sophisticated enough to encompass this statement. Treating the fluff on the whole as an amalgamation and interaction of different levels of perspective is a brilliant way to establish a rich, mutable background. Some of their writers pull this off pretty well, a lot of them don't.

What I would retcon?

5th ed Necrons.

DKoK gets the first place though. Most bland and uninteresting army I have ever seen.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
DKoK gets the first place though. Most bland and uninteresting army I have ever seen.

HERESY.

*blam*

 Peregrine wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
DKoK gets the first place though. Most bland and uninteresting army I have ever seen.

HERESY.

*blam*

HERESY! *blam* There are certain texts and opinions too terrifying for even Commisars... in that case an Inquisitor is needed to silence even them.

You served us well.

 Ignatius wrote:
Commander Chenkov. Him a thousand times over. If he was really in charge of anything and acted the way he does he'd be fired in an hour. Lunacy.

 Kaiserbudheim wrote:
A MILLION TIMES THIS. And he earns medals for his actions?! I've always hated Chenkov. I get it that they're trying to make it a grim dark setting, but that's just…NO. How is it we have brilliant IG commanders like Gaunt and Al'Rahem, Creed and Kell…yet they dare lump this worthless a__hat among them?

He gets the job done, that's what matters to his superiors. If he loses 20, 200, 2000 or more to take one enemy position, if he takes it and it's crucial to the overall progress of the battle/campaign/war then that's what matters - look at him as personifying the phrase 'Ends justifies the means'. Besides he just exemplifies how the Valhallan's fight - massed artillery barrages followed by wave after wave of infantry, packing them into the meatgrinder until the enemy are too low on ammunition and too worn down to resist yet another wave of attackers.

 UlrikDecado wrote:
Chenkov is great. He shows different face of IG. Some commanders are delicate tacticians, others use mass infantry waves because there is plenty of bodies. He fits perfectly into vast universe where are different strategies, politics and so on. As I dislike "IG is useless, lets send our heroic spes mehreens who are the only savious of humankind" Im not fan of "IG is sophisticated modern army with combined arms doctrine"...for that is IG too big and in it lies most of the fun with it. DKoK are great example of those different faces

I agree entirely. Chenkov adds variety and, as you say, shows one of the many sides to the Imperial Guard.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
DKoK gets the first place though. Most bland and uninteresting army I have ever seen.

I have to ask -how- would you 'retcon' them? Would you remove them? That would mean there wouldn't be a IG regiment based on the Great War - could inspiration from such an important modern conflict be ignored?

Hmm, If I really had to Retcon Something it'd be 3rd Edition Necrons, and return them back to their 'Chaos Androids" form.

Or their more tomb king like Chapter Approved type, rather then the Metallic Tyranids who serve the Mary Sue'tan.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Hmm, If I really had to Retcon Something it'd be 3rd Edition Necrons, and return them back to their 'Chaos Androids" form.

Or their more tomb king like Chapter Approved type, rather then the Metallic Tyranids who serve the Mary Sue'tan.

Okay I'll admit I say all for a return of the Chaos Androids. To be honest, C'tan were just stupidly broken with no real big drawbacks and necrons were metallic nids. And then you have the more recent fluff of tom kings in space except we are better than everybody. Best tech in the galaxy, still creating new tech, we know how to combat every style even the illogical and irrational, we have the quickest space travel to these places but then slow for everything else, our naval ships are the best, we can blow up your tanks with our basics guns, this is only the weakest power level of our guys, we have astronomers whom are the best at predicting the future, can see enemy plans thousands of years into the future, can see the horus heresy and everything else centuries before humans even become a real thing, we have shards of gods that are super powerful and gae both a god of the warp and the emperah a problem, we can't really die, oh and we have more necrons than there are humans in the galaxy. The army just feels so bewilderingly powerful that either format of them is irritating. In one you have physical gods that are just as mighty as the warp gods within the warp but since everything happens in the real world that means that whilst warp gods can make massive changes, it is always limited whilst C'tan can just ruin everything or you get well... almost everything else about them that is stupidly powerful. Oh and I forgot to mention they have ways to shut down warp travel and anti psyker and daemon tech to counter the whole entire warp problem. Admittedl I have some problems with nids (the projection of needing to increase production of all things by IG to counter their numbers by x10000 numbers. Grimdark is gridmark if there is some slight, minor hope. Factions that play out how impossibly godly they are and we have the best guns in the galaxy and better than you in every single way is somewhat irritating in the end). So retconne Nids and C'tan, restructure nids to be a really big threat but make it so that they don't soundsl ike they will curb stomp everything except necrons (Shadows in the warp against daemons works how exactly I've never quite known) and necrons to make them I dunno xD

Dolmen gates. That is the part I hate the most in the 5th ed codex. Not the triarchs. Not the dysnasties. The fething Dolmen gates.

Change:
The Horus Heresy never happened.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dolmen gates. That is the part I hate the most in the 5th ed codex. Not the triarchs. Not the dysnasties. The fething Dolmen gates.

Actually can we retcon the ork chearleader model? Like make it so it never existed?

 StarTrotter wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dolmen gates. That is the part I hate the most in the 5th ed codex. Not the triarchs. Not the dysnasties. The fething Dolmen gates.

Actually can we retcon the ork chearleader model? Like make it so it never existed?

nope.This is 40k and the ORC cheerleader is from blood bowl.

I'd have Draigo just ascend to the Supreme Grandmaster position through some uneventful process, definitely get rid of that carving his name in Mortarion's heart horse crap. And keep him within one realm, not strolling through the Realm of Chaos acting like Chuck Norris.

* Merge the 3E and 5E Necron styles, making two distinct types of Necron dynasties: independent and enslaved, both fighting the other types as much as the other factions.

* Return the Grey Knights to a Daemonhunters troop type. Giving them their own army list is like giving Space Marine Scouts their own list.

* No "Seeing Grey Knights = summary execution" rules. Make them beacons of hope in a hopeless situation.

* Rewrite Fulgrim's apotheosis. Angel Exterminatus was garbage and full of plot holes.

* Remove The Outcast Dead. The action hinges on a plot hole that gets handwaved in the last minutes of Wolf Hunt.

* Remove the Cabal, or at least their hand in Alpharius's betrayal. Alpharius has a better motive for turning on his brothers than "Some xenos told me Horus had to win," the opportunity to prove to Guilliman that his style of warfare is just as effective.

Merge the 3E and 5E Necron styles, making two distinct types of Necron dynasties: independent and enslaved, both fighting the other types as much as the other factions.

They have something very similar to this in the fluff now. They are called the Severed. There is also plenty of leeway in the fluff to have your Necrons worship a C'tan Shard.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dolmen gates. That is the part I hate the most in the 5th ed codex. Not the triarchs. Not the dysnasties. The fething Dolmen gates.

Actually can we retcon the ork chearleader model? Like make it so it never existed?

But then how would I ever torment the denizens of Dakka Dakka?

I'm not sure why people call the new Necron fluff "Tomb Kings in space". You can't say that they already were Tomb Kings in space at least aesthetically. If you wanted "Tomb Kings in space" gone, you'd have to redo the entire model range.

Back to Chaos Androids.

 Wilytank wrote:
I'm not sure why people call the new Necron fluff "Tomb Kings in space". You can't say that they already were Tomb Kings in space at least aesthetically. If you wanted "Tomb Kings in space" gone, you'd have to redo the entire model range.

As you said I'm sure most people who say ''Tomb Kings in space'' don't care, or at least never read about the TK. Both armies are completely different from each other, especially when it comes to the lore.