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My first thought is the StG-44.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
What is actually meant by an "assault rifle" (see my definition above) and what the media use the phrase for are two very different things. And the phrase gets used by the media because it is so loaded. If there was any concern for factual accuracy they would describe the firearm as a semi-automatic rifle. But that just isn't scary enough.

It's been kind of a weird thing to watch play out. Started with the term 'assault weapon', which was basically a made up term that sounded like the 'assault rifle' and therefore sounded all military and scary, but was actually a grab bag of different features that didn't really make sense but just generally sounded kind of military and scary. I mean, why use a bayonet as an element, other than scaremongering?

From there, somehow, the term assault rifle got co-opted to mean the same fuzzy kind of thing that assault weapon meant. That's when, to me, it got really annoying, because assault rifle actually means something and is an important part of the evolution of military hardware.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
I'm going with Battle rifles. Since the selector commonly used in combat is safe, single, burst/automatic. Assault Rifles I'm going with semi auto

I thought that the difference between a BR and AR was the fact that a BR is chambered for 7.62x51mm...

I generally use the definition that was developed by those who know what they are actually talking about. Recent attempts to define semi-automatics as "assault rifles" based on cosmetic features (collapsible stock, pistol grip, etc.) are almost unintentionally hilarious when changing the furniture of a firearm like a Ruger Mini 14 from a wooden fixed stock to a composite stock with pistol grip changes it's classification in spite of the firearm being functionally the same.

As to BR that is essentially the case. Weapons like the M14 or FN FAL are BR's. BR refers to a full power rifle cartridge which is a whole different class of rifle, though most folks looking at them would just say "assault rifle". Interestingly a news story about such a rifle, could credibly use the term "High Powered Rifle" which is another term that often get's used incorrectly.

I agree that the alternate definitions are more a manner of politics than anything. Politicians went after cosmetic features which were destined to be either worked around or eventually repealed or not renewed. As to the Mini 14, all I can say is hmmm...tasty.

All that said, I'm definitely more interested in seeing folks gut reactions to the term than the usual good or bad gun debate.

The Mini 14 might be tasty, but I'd love to try out an M14. I've always had a soft spot for that rifle


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 sebster wrote:
It's been kind of a weird thing to watch play out. Started with the term 'assault weapon', which was basically a made up term that sounded like the 'assault rifle' and therefore sounded all military and scary, but was actually a grab bag of different features that didn't really make sense but just generally sounded kind of military and scary. I mean, why use a bayonet as an element, other than scaremongering?

From there, somehow, the term assault rifle got co-opted to mean the same fuzzy kind of thing that assault weapon meant. That's when, to me, it got really annoying, because assault rifle actually means something and is an important part of the evolution of military hardware.

That's pretty much my feelings on it too. But it is a great example of repeat something often enough and it becomes the truth.

That's a very good point you two. I hadn't even considered the term "Assault weapon" (the political term I assume) vs "Assault Rifle" ( A real military designation). I think I may have been reading/hearing them as the same term in the past.

I wonder if anyone has traced the evolution of the use of these two terms. When did "weapon" start being used, and when did people go back to using "rifle" but meaning "weapon".

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Magazine fed firearm, with select fire capabilities, and an intermediate cartridge. Generally used by the military and law enforcement.

+1 this.
Intermediate cartridge being between the sizes used by Submachine guns and battle rifles.

And they are 'banana' magazines. Clips and magazines ARE NOT interchangeable words for the same thing.

 chromedog wrote:
.

And they are 'banana' magazines. Clips and magazines ARE NOT interchangeable words for the same thing.

Glad someone else pointed this out! People that think that watch too many rap videos.

This

The M16. Not a statement of superiority or anything, it's just the shape and image that I first associate with 'assault rifle.'

I think "Not enough ammo capacity." but I'll always be a machinegunner at heart.

 Eilif wrote:
That's a very good point you two. I hadn't even considered the term "Assault weapon" (the political term I assume) vs "Assault Rifle" ( A real military designation). I think I may have been reading/hearing them as the same term in the past.

I wonder if anyone has traced the evolution of the use of these two terms. When did "weapon" start being used, and when did people go back to using "rifle" but meaning "weapon".

I'm far from an expert on the subject, but my impression is that 'assault weapon' came in to common use when the Brady bill went up.

And from then the term 'assault rifle' slowly came to be used to mean the same thing only in the last couple of years.

For me it's the same as Jimsolo, the M16. It's sort of the standard thing I think of. I guess after that probably the AK-47.

 DogofWar1 wrote:
For me it's the same as Jimsolo, the M16. It's sort of the standard thing I think of. I guess after that probably the AK-47.

Definitely. Then the MP5 and the P90.

AK74 or one of the many AK47 knock-offs.

 Cheesecat wrote:
M16 or AK-47.

What he said.

In the US, assault is often defined as "an unwanted touching". That being the case, I envision an assault rifle as a baseball bat with a pistol grip and shoulder stock.

 cincydooley wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
.

And they are 'banana' magazines. Clips and magazines ARE NOT interchangeable words for the same thing.

Glad someone else pointed this out! People that think that watch too many rap videos.

Good Point. It's definitely a commonly mis-used term. Embarrassingly, It was in my first-thoughts and I like to think of my self as someone who knows enough not to mix them up in conversation. Oops!

An especially good point to keep in mind the next time an SKS is called an "Assault rifle" on the news.

Well, we also have a media that tries to convince people it's easier to fire a 12 Gauge than an AR15 style rifle, which just isn't the case at all.

M16/M4 with an attached grenade launcher is what spontaneously pops up in my mind.

Or a bayonet.

When I hear 'Assault rifle' the first thing that comes to my mind is 'agenda' and 'plea to emotions'.

Having said that, the picture in my mind of a true assault rifle is a nice wood stock FN FAL.

 Eilif wrote:


It's interesting the ways that the Military, Media's, various Legal and Popular definitions overlap and differ. Just taking into account the matter of select (auto capable) and semi-only. The military definition is select fire, yet many laws (which do not all agree) specifically define various semi-auto only weapons as "Assault" rifles if they have certain grips, features, Hi-capacity removable magazines, or other criteria. The public and the Media on the other hand are likely -though not always- to call anything that looks "Dangerous" an "Assault Rifle" regardless of whether the weapon can be fired fully-automatic.

Whether the term Assault Rifle is use because of fear, lack of understanding, expediency, attention-grabbing, or even a desire to be accurate (when used accurately) is varied and debatable. Opinions on that are probably going to line up with a persons political and gun-control views, but there's no denying that it's a loaded term.

The thing I find funny, is that in the mid 90s, when Clinton was being pressured into an "Assault Rifle" ban, the people who wrote it left it very broad, and basically wrote the law to say "if you have a firearm that meets any 3 things on the following list, then it's an assault rifle"... The problem with that was that it included things like:

-A rifled barrel
-Bayonet Stud (or the ability to fasten a bayonet)
-the ability to fire its entire load in one trigger pull
-a certain style of sight aperture

Many things of which, people ignorant of firearms will say "YAAAY!!!" but.... Under that particular law, ALL muzzle loading firearms used by revolutionary/ACW re-enactors would have been made illegal. You see, the firearms we used in the Revolutionary and ACW had bayonet studs, the "assault" sight aperture, and a couple other extremely minor features (IIRC one of the things on the list was actually a sling or the ability to attach one). Of course, anyone with half a brain would see how ridiculous it is to ban a single shot, muzzle loading weapon, but it was on the target block for banning because it can "fire its entire load in one trigger pull"

An AK47, M16, Galil, or SA80, and similar rifles that shoot a lower powered round than traditional WW2 rifles and has automatic fire.

But if you said "assault gun" it conjures up this;

M16s, or other relatively short barreled, intermediate cartridge firing, automatic Rifles/Carbines.

And by M16, I do mean the military, select-fire variant of the AR-15.

Assault Rifle is a meaningless term, like battle-rifle, Sniper-Rifle, or sporting rifle. Stop saying AK47. The AK47 is an extremely rare firearm that was only produced for a few years. Most of what you think of as "AK47"s are actually AKMs, AK74s, or other Kalashnikov variants, none of which are probably milled receivers.

 cincydooley wrote:
Well, we also have a media that tries to convince people it's easier to fire a 12 Gauge than an AR15 style rifle, which just isn't the case at all.

And Biden threw his 2 cents into that debate too

An automatic weapon designed to be wielded with two hands by a single operator.

 Eilif wrote:
I wonder if anyone has traced the evolution of the use of these two terms. When did "weapon" start being used, and when did people go back to using "rifle" but meaning "weapon".

Outside of 40k, "assault weapon" is a term used to pretend a semi-automatic weapon is something it's not. The ability of a rifle to double as a pointy stick or the shape of the handle are not valid grounds to discriminate between different items when writing a law.

A FN FAL. But I am odd like that.

Ichiwawa.....remember..we also have the M1 series...

Kalashnikov, or M14.
I don't live in America, and have little interest in games like CoD, so I don't really know any others!

I think of the MP44.

M416.

Interesting to see the M1, M14 and FN FAL mentioned when they aren't actually Assault Rifles, but rather are Battle Rifles. Something I didn't know myself until a few months ago.