GW's digital advent releases : day 25 : Cypher audio and rules p22

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**Sarouan**

Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.

This Restless Dead is, in fact, the same thing than the Tau formation; take a bunch of skeletons in your army without caring about your army book.

Plenty of creativity, though. I'm quite impressed with what they're doing at the moment. We'll see what will come next year...

**Bull0**

Sarouan wrote:
Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.

This Restless Dead is, in fact, the same thing than the Tau formation; take a bunch of skeletons in your army without caring about your army book.

Plenty of creativity, though. I'm quite impressed with what they're doing at the moment. We'll see what will come next year...

Any time anyone changes anything, people can say the sky is falling because of the effect they believe that change could have on balance. It's lazy criticism for when you've got nothing better to hand but still want to bash GW.

**NoggintheNog**

aliusexalio wrote:
Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)

http://ebook-reader-review.toptenreviews.com/kindle-paperwhite-review.html

It will display it all, the mobi filetype you get from Black Library is Kindle proprietary, it will however just be black and white obviously.They are very easy on the eye to read though, I have to say.

Not sure if you can find one, but I think the bargain of the last few months has been the Nook HD+ tablet, £120 , 9 inch screen, full HD resolution (1920x1080) and apart from Nooks own front end, an open android system including google playstore etc. Works great for the books and all in colour, although its out of production now so finding one may be difficult.

**aliusexalio**

Thimn wrote:
aliusexalio wrote:
Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)

http://ebook-reader-review.toptenreviews.com/kindle-paperwhite-review.html

I have seen to many people go cheap on their tablets and then complain about how useless it is and rather have the books in front of them. I highly recommend Googles Nexus 7. Its $200 and out performs everything. Its main draw back is you can't add an SD Card, so if you fill all 16 gigs you would need to utilize Dropbox or Google Drive.

Just a recommendation of course but I always cringe when I see people going for the cheapest tablets thinking its going to work the way you want them to.

Thanks, Ill keep that in mind, I did some more researching and the e-readers don't have color, only black and white. Now for rules its not that big of a deal, but still it would be nice to have a color screen.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

NoggintheNog wrote:
aliusexalio wrote:
Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)

http://ebook-reader-review.toptenreviews.com/kindle-paperwhite-review.html

It will display it all, the mobi filetype you get from Black Library is Kindle proprietary, it will however just be black and white obviously.They are very easy on the eye to read though, I have to say.

Not sure if you can find one, but I think the bargain of the last few months has been the Nook HD+ tablet, £120 , 9 inch screen, full HD resolution (1920x1080) and apart from Nooks own front end, an open android system including google playstore etc. Works great for the books and all in colour, although its out of production now so finding one may be difficult.

Thanks!

**jonolikespie**

Bull0 wrote:

Any time anyone changes anything, people can say the sky is falling because of the effect they believe that change could have on balance. It's lazy criticism for when you've got nothing better to hand but still want to bash GW.

You know I think you're right, every time GW changes something people always complain that it's unbalanced and ruing the game, I wonder why that is...
Maybe it's because 40k is the least balanced game on the market and GW are constantly telling us that they don't want to balance it?

Citing balance issues is not a lazy criticism. Easy, but not lazy. The same way trying to imply that anyone that has a problem with anything GW does just want's to 'bash' GW isn't lazy. Unoriginal sure, but not lazy.

**Bull0**

jonolikespie wrote:
Bull0 wrote:

Any time anyone changes anything, people can say the sky is falling because of the effect they believe that change could have on balance. It's lazy criticism for when you've got nothing better to hand but still want to bash GW.

You know I think you're right, every time GW changes something people always complain that it's unbalanced and ruing the game, I wonder why that is...
Maybe it's because 40k is the least balanced game on the market and GW are constantly telling us that they don't want to balance it?

Citing balance issues is not a lazy criticism. Easy, but not lazy. The same way trying to imply that anyone that has a problem with anything GW does just want's to 'bash' GW isn't lazy. Unoriginal sure, but not lazy.

So on the one hand 40k is endemically unbalanced, but on the other hand if they change things it'll ruin the balance? Which is it?

And nice try there but I never actually said "anyone that has a problem with anything GW does just want's to 'bash' GW". I don't believe that and I didn't say it, so please don't put words in my mouth.

**kronk**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
The second time you got steamrolled by a flood of superheavies, you won't play that opponent again or quit altogether.

Where is this flood of super-heavies coming from?

He's probably talking about WH40k: Escalation, which has rules about super heavies being used in regular 40k. Whether this will be allowed in tournaments remains to be seen.

I'd rather see FW in tournaments than super heavies, but that's just me.

Spoiler:

**Herzlos**

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:

The second time you got steamrolled by a flood of superheavies, you won't play that opponent again or quit altogether. Buying the products is NOT the hobby.

Kroot, you're obviously hanging out with the wrong people.

In a tournament, the rules of whether superheavies etc are eligible will be clear. In a regular club, people will, y'know, talk. In our regular venue, we ask for a fluffy game, we say whether we want a no-holds barred game. And if we lose, it doesn't ruin our life. Is your self-esteem so fragile that losing a pickup game will make you quit a hobby?

At our regular club, people are already urging us to bring the Stompa. Why? Because it will be fun. That is, y'know, the point. When there's a tournament, the rules will be clear, and are being debated already. Most reasonable, decent people will do that - if they won't where you are, maybe you should find another group, rather than asking GW to police your personal life.

If you need a gentlemans agreement to enjoy the game, then there's something wrong with the game, no?

The problem with broken units is that one of the players doesn't need to be actively being "that guy" for the other guy to get steamrollered and have no fun. If you've just invested in an army you like, and then find out that unless your opponent actively sandbags their army, their victory is a foregone conclusion, you're going to be upset and lose interest quickly.

**Azreal13**

Bull0 wrote:

So on the one hand 40k is endemically unbalanced, but on the other hand if they change things it'll ruin the balance? Which is it?

Balance isn't a binary concept.

**jonolikespie**

Bull0 wrote:
jonolikespie wrote:
Bull0 wrote:

Any time anyone changes anything, people can say the sky is falling because of the effect they believe that change could have on balance. It's lazy criticism for when you've got nothing better to hand but still want to bash GW.

You know I think you're right, every time GW changes something people always complain that it's unbalanced and ruing the game, I wonder why that is...
Maybe it's because 40k is the least balanced game on the market and GW are constantly telling us that they don't want to balance it?
Citing balance issues is not a lazy criticism. Easy, but not lazy. The same way trying to imply that anyone that has a problem with anything GW does just want's to 'bash' GW isn't lazy. Unoriginal sure, but not lazy.

So on the one hand 40k is endemically unbalanced, but on the other hand if they change things it'll ruin the balance? Which is it?
And nice try there but I never actually said "anyone that has a problem with anything GW does just want's to 'bash' GW". I don't believe that and I didn't say it, so please don't put words in my mouth.

The point you were making is that people are complaining for no reason, the point I am trying to make is that imbalance is a very, very good reason to complain when it comes to GW.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Sarouan wrote:
Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.

Well, I don't play battle anymore, but here are my thought on why :
- Much more people play 40k than Battle around here, so they are not affected by Battle release and don't react to them overmuch
- The Battle Battlescroll seems much more balanced : you need to take some base units (here, Skeleton Warrior) and some hero (here, Wight Knight) to be able to take other, more exotic units (Black Knights and Grave Guard, though I have no idea if they are base, special or rare units). It actually feels like some kind of alliance with a mini undead army. The firecadre is all HS choices. And not any kind of HS choice either, some of the best/hardest to deal with.

Did anyone else notice how every story so far has been about space marine ? Let's take bet at when the first non-space marine fiction will pop up. I bet on Friday the 13th, of course

.

**Avian**

Sarouan wrote:
Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.

This Restless Dead is, in fact, the same thing than the Tau formation; take a bunch of skeletons in your army without caring about your army book.

There are some important differences. For one, the formation comes with a Core unit (Troops equivalent, only not as useful). So in a percentage based system, you're not "breaking" the system, the way you get one extra Elite and two Heavy with the Tau one. Secondly, the units aren't that great, especially if you can't boost them with VC magic.

So people don't care, because it's a sensible implementation.

**H.B.M.C.**

Sarouan wrote:
Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.

I know right? It's almost as if they were two different games with completely separate issues? Weird!!!

kronk wrote:
He's probably talking about WH40k: Escalation, which has rules about super heavies being used in regular 40k. Whether this will be allowed in tournaments remains to be seen.

I'd rather see FW in tournaments than super heavies, but that's just me.

All indication is that this will allow a Lord of War slot - singular - meaning people can take one super-heavy in the same way they take one fortification.

Hardly the 'wave' Kroothawk seems worried about.

**Slayer le boucher**

aliusexalio wrote:
Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)

http://ebook-reader-review.toptenreviews.com/kindle-paperwhite-review.html

If you really want to see this in colour, you can use the Calibre program on your PC, its free, and you can convert it into pdf.

**WarOne**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
The second time you got steamrolled by a flood of superheavies, you won't play that opponent again or quit altogether.

Where is this flood of super-heavies coming from?

A forge world of course.

But then again, the game balance will be tilting for a while with the flood of super-releases coming....from GW of course.

So far the new releases have not made super-heavies more prominent, but let us see what else GW releases.

**Baragash**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
All indication is that this will allow a Lord of War slot - singular - meaning people can take one super-heavy in the same way they take one fortification.

Hardly the 'wave' Kroothawk seems worried about.

If calling it Lord of War indicates they're using the FW system from the HH books then it's something like* 1 with 7+ HPs or 1-3 with <7 HPs each, spending no more than 25% of your points.

*I only have the first HH book where it's 1 with 3+ SPs or 1-3 with <3 SPs each, I'm not sure where they put the boundary in the second book when they switched to using HPs as well instead of SPs on the profiles.

**Ravenous D**

kronk wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
The second time you got steamrolled by a flood of superheavies, you won't play that opponent again or quit altogether.

Where is this flood of super-heavies coming from?

He's probably talking about WH40k: Escalation, which has rules about super heavies being used in regular 40k. Whether this will be allowed in tournaments remains to be seen.

I'd rather see FW in tournaments than super heavies, but that's just me.

Spoiler:

Warhammer 40,000: Escalation

Please note, this supplement is currently only available in English language.

Across the battlefields of the 41st Millenium, desperate commanders loose their greatest weapons of war. Classified “Lords of War” by the Imperium of Man, these vast and deadly assets bring a new level of destruction to the galaxy’s eternal war.

Warhammer 40,000: Escalation contains full rules for adding super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures to every Warhammer 40,000 army. This means you can now use these massive models in games of Warhammer 40,000 as well as games of Apocalypse.

This 96-page, full colour, hardback supplement contains:

· A background section introducing Lords of War units and their terrifying impact on the battlefield.
· All the rules needed to play with super-heavy vehicles (including Flyers and Walkers) and Gargantuan Creatures, as well as rules for their potent wargear.
· An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.
· Datasheets for every plastic super-heavy Citadel miniature, plus a selection of super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures from Forge World.
· A showcase of expertly painted Lords of War Citadel miniatures.
· New Altar of War and Gauntlet Challenge missions that can be played instead of the Eternal War missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

You will need a copy of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and relevant codexes in order to use the contents of this book.

Availability: This product is available for Pre-order. Release Date Information.
Part Code: 60040199040

A few things on escalation:

1) It's $60, that makes it shelf bait.

2) It is no different then death from the skies, it adds a bunch of rules that no one will want to play against. Fighter ace rules don't need your opponents permission and we don't see them because its janky and stupid.

3) Very quickly people that actually do play will realize how dumb a super heavy game is out of apoc. Its either a ego stroke fest for the guy using it or its the fastest game ever. Either way its not going to have the impact people think. Plus "oh hey Im 10 sternguard in a drop pod with combi meltas, sorry about your luck" can happen a lot.

4) Tournaments will ban this stuff. Getting beat from good play and a hard list is fun for competitive gamers, getting janked and beaten by stupidity makes you feel like you wasted your time.

**Troike**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Did anyone else notice how every story so far has been about space marine ?

Yep. I'm rather disappointed, since I was hoping to see a nice, well-rounded selection of short stories that'd give everybody a turn in the spotlight. Though, given BL's usual output, that may have been a tad optimistic of me. But hey, there's still plenty of time.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Let's take bet at when the first non-space marine fiction will pop up. I bet on Friday the 13th, of course .

I'll guess by day 7. Or hope, rather. A solid week of only Marine stories would be a bit much, really.

**reds8n**

All the BL advent stories are going to be marine related.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Blog/tales-of-advent-ure-and-excitement.html

see what happens if you don't read the BL news/rumour thread

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

We considered stories about an ogre Santa sneaking down Old World chimneys and eating children, or tales of the presents that dark eldar find in their stockings (I still have nightmares about that), but then we realised that what we all wanted was to explore a few of the named Space Marine characters from the background. Many of them have appeared in novels, novellas and short stories past, but some we are seeing for the first time.

Because that's different from what they do ALL THE fething TIME ? That's Black Library idea of a theme, more of the same gak ?

**Goresaw**

No, about 35% of their books are about IG too.

**Troike**

Well, that's a letdown.

**TiamatRoar**

Some of the Space Marine books for the Advent Calendar are about Chaos Space Marines instead. Like the Ahriman one on Day 2! Huzzah!!!!!!

**Kirasu**

I hope they write some more stories about the 3rd company of the Imperial fists.. 100 space marines able to kill ANYTHING all the time.

Man, they should team up with Draigo so that together I imagine they could conquer the ENTIRE realm of chaos. (Yet in FW books, the entire minotaurs chapter could barely fight against 1 Necron world)

**Kanluwen**

Well to be fair, Necrons have skullfaces.

We all know the power of skulls in 40k.

**Kirasu**

I did not take into account the power of skullfaces.

**McNs**

Sarouan wrote:
Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.

This Restless Dead is, in fact, the same thing than the Tau formation; take a bunch of skeletons in your army without caring about your army book.

"
As others have pointed out, the relative power level of "moar Skeletons" to Riptides aren't really comparable. If they had added a 2+ Frost Pheonix + Mage Lord Battlescroll, that might be a different story.

Plus, how many people really expect balance out of WFB anymore?

I think it's premature to say the sky is falling due to the Fireblade Cadre. That said, holy coly, in two months, GW has added:

- Inquisitors as non-Ally slots
- Super Heavies via Escalation
- Battle Formations as non-Ally slits
- A boat-load of extra Fortifications

Independently, none of these are especially terrifying. In tandem, this opens the game to a lot combinations that I can't imagine were conceived when the individual army books were being developed. It feels like this is just a trial run for 7th (in line with rumors of "all allies, all the time" in 9th ed WFB), which should be a ways out.

I'll still play with my group, but these supplements have killed my interest in playing in tournaments.

Moreoever, if they're going to do Dataslates and balance-be-damned, could they make them more interesting from a fluff perspective? Maybe give Chaos Cults a look?

**silent25**

jonolikespie wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude:

GW explicitly* doesn't like tournaments and you already knew that. So what's your point?

*that means they've actually said so.

That is a recent attitude from GW that flies in the face of what a lot of fans want purely because GW dislike the idea of actually competing with other companies.

It's the current designers that don't like tournaments. They have been trying to purge any traces of ideas and rules developed by Alessio Cavatore who came from a tournament background. I personally suspect Matt Ward is the driving force as he seems to develop rules that hurt tournament style play. The Reign of Chaos table being the prime example. A rule that deliberately interrupts and slows down the game.

**Shotgun**

Kroothawk wrote:
Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude:
"Who downloads latest, get's the most Riptides/superheavies/Apocalypse-formations/Primarchs and wins the game!"

It's GW's version of Candy Crush!

**weeble1000**

Shotgun wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude:
"Who downloads latest, get's the most Riptides/superheavies/Apocalypse-formations/Primarchs and wins the game!"

It's GW's version of Candy Crush!

Skull Crush! That was a joke, but...wow, yea, GW could do that. Lord knows GW has enough different types of skulls, and crushing skulls is very grimdark. You could be crushing skulls under the skull throne. And if you loose Khorne could crush you.