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I don't want to moan about tau specifically or anything so hear me out.
I know there are a lot of complaints about the riptide and being OP. I think due to the number and regularity there must be some truth to the statement; however that is not my point.

It's been considered the most broken unit in the recent past, and they've released a new data sheet allowing it to be taken in virtually every army going.
Does this mean that we're just going to see masses of riptides joining a sprinkling of other units because everyone considers it so über powerful?

Just a point for discussion really?

I think there are too many factors to point to one as the reason 40k has been sliding downhill.

It is an interesting question. Honestly if the Riptide shines as much as people say it does then yes you will start to see it in other armies...

Bloody stupid if you ask me but Games Workshop is gonna Games Workshop.

the Riptide is but one of many silly design choices GW has made of late, seemingly realizing that they made vehicle rules complete gak so instead just started making big walker things MC's instead. It in and of itself isn't going to kill anything, but it's certainly not helping.

I wouldn't say the Riptide is a huge factor in the decline. I honestly would say 6th edition rules in general take the majority of the blame, followed by the spam of supplement books, and the ever present price increases in each new release.

Don't get me wrong the Riptide is ridiculously good. Grav guns were meant to be a counter to them, but it hasn't stopped people from running them. Perhaps nids will bring something interesting to the table.

I don't think we'll see a big increase of riptides.
There are plenty of incredibly powerful Eldar and Imperial units... Doesn't mean I absolutely have to play with them. I'd rather counter them with a unit selection from my own army. I think most players are not interested in investing in a hodgepodge of the absolute optimum unit combination from every army.

Oh god, Riptides are not the most broken unit in recent past. They are good, very good, but I can't imagine this stupid dataset will increase the amount we are seeing for a couple of reasons.

Requires 6 Broadsides. Broadsides are very very easy to kill and outdeploy, especially when run as three Missilesides without Drones or Buffcommander. Tankhunter is great, but you can already get that and ignore Cover with a Buffcommander. Three Broadsides with Missile Drones with Buffcommander is better than six Broadsides for a comparable cost. That leaves the Riptide, most field the IA Riptide, and he isn't great antiAV by default, and still requires support to be super effective. Tankhunting HBC Riptides are better and are great vs AV.

Its a minimum 570pt investment that can easily swell to over 610 after EWO and an IA. And the Broadsides die quite easily, spending 70pts/model to be instagibbed by any Lascannon equivalent.

Yep, just about anyone can take a mandatory six broadsides and single Riptide. The Farsight Enclave and Tau can already do that and usually to a greater effect.

IMO, its not a game changer. And if they didn't give them free Tankhunter, we wouldn't see them at all. And with Tankhunter, just field a Land Raider. They can't scratch it and your TLLCs and MM only need to kill four single shot Broadsides to make it worth it.

I see it being a bigger counter for Wave Serpents IMO.

Not to mention what a nice target that support cadre makes for other Tau players, I for one have no vehicles and will gladly pieplate and ID without cover three Broadsides per shot if given the chance, and I certainly can put down a opposing Riptide.

What decline do you speak of, precisely? Sales are up, games are easy to find, tournaments are booming, players are getting back into the game thanks to 6th ed. GW is making a profit.

Unsupported Riptides are rubbish. Nova Charging without Earth Caste is hugely risky. Try to base your judgements on in-game experience, not hearsay on the internets.

Riptides aren't broken. You could make an argument the Tau Commander is broken, but Riptides are fine. You want to add a Riptide to your list without a Commander (what the formation effectively does), go for it.

However in a world with the Seer Council I don't have time to worry about Tau Commanders.

Oh noes! Riptides!

As "broken"as riptides might be, they got nothing on Serpent spam. With seer council with attached Baron.

Well that's why I'm relieved there isn't a holiday box of four wave serpents and ten warlocks on bikes.

Flying Toaster wrote:


Bloody stupid if you ask me but Games Workshop is gonna Games Workshop.

when did games workshop become a verb?

 DarthSpader wrote:

Flying Toaster wrote:


Bloody stupid if you ask me but Games Workshop is gonna Games Workshop.

when did games workshop become a verb?

Now. Just now.

You just missed it.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Well that's why I'm relieved there isn't a holiday box of four wave serpents and ten warlocks on bikes.

SHHHHH GW might hear you!

I love dropping a Rune Priest near a riptide and hitting it with the line of f*ck you aka jaws of the world wolf. So much rage lol.

Riptides fall squarely under Jim's rule of Space Marines #2: There is no problem that can't be solved by the suitable application of Assault Terminators.

I don't think they are going to destroy the game; I don't even think they're particularly overpowered.

I actually love the number of riptides present in the meta. My normal army list includes 2 command Vanquisher tanks with Beast Hunter Shells.

The cries of rage and despair when a Riptide goes down in one shot (sometimes I splat two if they're really crammed together with a lucky scatter - those bases are BIG) are totally worth it.

ive killed 2 in a turn using poison... granted i got lucky, and he biffed some saves... but make ANYTHING take 40 saves and it will probally die. - 9 venoms, plus infantry on board, and assorted lance fire = VERY bad day to be a riptide.

lol I love hearing this, my two friends were worried about facing my riptides, that is until they learned to use its best abilities it had to overcharge and on a 1-2 just gave itself a wound, wanna overcharge your gun? well now you either have a 12 gets hot shots (HA no ones doing that) or gets hot on your blast that's TWO times I get the chance to hurt myself in one turn. Add to that its inv. is only a 5+ and they agreed it was as balanced as you are going to make a Big Monstrous creature.

Is it good? yes , and it should be, but being good and big and everyone seeing this thing from almost anywhere on the field means they are going to attract a lot of shots. Which honestly I'm sure a lot of tau players know that and use them just for that.

The local Tau player loves his riptide. i think i am gonna try and get boxcars with my sag.

as it is not a vehicle, boxcars= GONE.

wishful thinking aside, a mob of boyz on the charge can bring one down in a round or 2. the PK nob will do most of the work, but the boyz will force a few saves.

my last game against one, it died to 12 boyz and a nob because despite insta killing 1-2 boyz a turn, the nob could at least tie it for wounds each round.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I actually love the number of riptides present in the meta. My normal army list includes 2 command Vanquisher tanks with Beast Hunter Shells.

The cries of rage and despair when a Riptide goes down in one shot (sometimes I splat two if they're really crammed together with a lucky scatter - those bases are BIG) are totally worth it.

the "i win" button against overpowered monstrous creatures..

something overpowered? Make half baked overpowered counter measure! what a shoddy excuse for game play.

kb305 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I actually love the number of riptides present in the meta. My normal army list includes 2 command Vanquisher tanks with Beast Hunter Shells.

The cries of rage and despair when a Riptide goes down in one shot (sometimes I splat two if they're really crammed together with a lucky scatter - those bases are BIG) are totally worth it.

the "i win" button against overpowered monstrous creatures..

something overpowered? Make half baked overpowered counter measure! what a shoddy excuse for game play.

yes. because a beast-hunter shell is overpowered.

EDIT:
It's also an official piece of wargear, so I guess that makes GW's rules half-baked as well. Which I won't argue with.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
yes. because a beast-hunter shell is overpowered.

IMO it is. What do Nids use against an Armored company? MCs! Except they get IDed left and right...

rigeld2 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
yes. because a beast-hunter shell is overpowered.

IMO it is. What do Nids use against an Armored company? MCs! Except they get IDed left and right...

Well, without them, what would armored company do against nids? Take one wound away from MCs per turn until they got murderated?

I honestly feel Allies are the biggest problem. As fun as it can be at times to try combos it's making a few units completly broken. Every army has strengths and weaknesses but with the ally system you can remove the weaknesses and even boost your strengths. It has done a number on the balance imo and except for that I actually quite like 6:ed.

 Eisensapper wrote:
I love dropping a Rune Priest near a riptide and hitting it with the line of f*ck you aka jaws of the world wolf. So much rage lol.

That is after he and 2-3 other units intercept+skyfire your Rune Priest drop pod right?

rigeld2 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
yes. because a beast-hunter shell is overpowered.

IMO it is. What do Nids use against an Armored company? MCs! Except they get IDed left and right...

it also perfectly highlights the rock paper scissors game play.

embarrassingly bad and simple minded.

My 40k experience hasn't been ruined by the riptide, nor have I ruined the experience for anyone else.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
yes. because a beast-hunter shell is overpowered.

IMO it is. What do Nids use against an Armored company? MCs! Except they get IDed left and right...

Well, without them, what would armored company do against nids? Take one wound away from MCs per turn until they got murderated?

I dunno - I lose plenty of MCs against a normal IG list - even one without Vendettas. When I only have 7 MCs in a 1850 army, killing on a hit (essentially, no save, easy to wound) is insane.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
yes. because a beast-hunter shell is overpowered.

IMO it is. What do Nids use against an Armored company? MCs! Except they get IDed left and right...

Well, without them, what would armored company do against nids? Take one wound away from MCs per turn until they got murderated?

I dunno - I lose plenty of MCs against a normal IG list - even one without Vendettas. When I only have 7 MCs in a 1850 army, killing on a hit (essentially, no save, easy to wound) is insane.

ABG isn't a normal IG list. 7 MCs? So five are Tervigons and 2 Hive Tyrants (not even flying). I'll do some number crunching for you, against my armored battlegroup:

That's 38 wounds. My armored battlegroup puts out 10 main-gun rounds a turn from its tanks. That means it would take me four turns if every shot hit and wounded with no save allowed to kill just your MCs. By turn 4, you'll be in CC, so some tanks will be dead. If you kill, say, 3 tanks on or by turn 4 (a ridiculously small number if you're just walking across the board and assaulting), then it would take all five turns in a five turn game just to kill your MCs.

I would feel pretty helpless in that situation without Beast Hunter shells.