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Not sure if a similar topic has been brought up before but I just wanted to make a comment on the fact that I find a lot of 40k armies to be completely white-washed if you get my meaning. I find the notion that an entire army, perhaps barring certain space marine chapters, would be so single-toned in terms of race is completely ludicrous. I recall seeing a few images of black catachans but it seems to me that 95% of all models in 40k are of the caucasian variety.

In the US armed forces there is a large mix of races and cultures, and I am sure that it is true with most other modern militaries. So why not with 40k? I know that they have variations of regiments in the Imperial Guard, but they feel stereotyped and monotone. For example, they have Tallarn, but the entire army is Tallarn. You rarely see a middle eastern looking soldier in a Cadian force etc. Given the fact that there are tons of racial differences just on Earth wouldn't it make sense to have a lot of variation in the armies in 40k seeing as how there are hundreds of thousands of inhabited planets?

For certain armies, such as Space marines, it makes sense, as they are usually all selected from one gene-pool on one planet. But even so, unless the entire planet is Space Scandinavia like the Fenris, or a volcano planet like Nocturne you would think that most inhabited planets would have a good degree of racial variation, wouldn't you?

Comment with what you think about this. Also, I would love to see some examples of people bringing multicultural models to the tabletop. I know I always strive to go for a few different looks on the few Dark Angels I have w/o helmets etc.

- VardenV2

In my experience it's just easier to paint everyone white. You don't have to mix, you only need one paint and it gets the job done.

 VardenV2 wrote:
Not sure if a similar topic has been brought up before but I just wanted ..........

Yeah, It has been brought up before,,,,,and nothing good ever comes from it. So....there.

The problem is in my opinion is that (this is for the guard) the cadians and catachans are depicted as white. My colonial british imperial guard are white because thats the theme. But if they had tallarn models and so on.... well more variety of regiments being done with each being made out to be different racially the we would see a lot more variation in paint schemes etc.

There are a lot of brown Imperials in the black library. Also you have the Tallarn, White Scars, ROugh Riders etc.

You primarily see white people in 40K because A) It's primary demographic is white, and B) It's written by a bunch of white dudes.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
You primarily see white people in 40K because A) It's primary demographic is white,

I think this is the main reason. People paint what they know.

I know that the macho white male trope is common in all sorts of industries, particularly games and entertainment.

I just find it strange that given 40k references so many other sic-fi movies etc. often of which have a bit more diversity in the cast, that we don't see models painted that way more often.

As for ease of painting, I don't really agree. White skin seems like it would be just as difficult to paint as any tan or darker shade. Now, if you are going for a particular theme, then by all means. A darker skinned Space Wolf would probably not make much sense. But chapters that recruit from many worlds, such as the Black Templar, Dark Angels, Ultramarines (right?) etc. would expect to see some more skin tones.

I guess I am getting at the fact that bald angry screaming white man syndrome is a little stale sometimes. I challenge people to try and diversify a bit and add a little realism to the game is all I am getting at.

Here's an example of my two Deathwing models with a darker skin tone (the old one and the new version of him). I think it looks a lot better than the standard white guy look and makes him stand out (and he looks cool).


I'd like to see some other examples if anyone has them, because I have yet to find anyone else that really does it and it's bizarre to me.

I made the mistake of showing my then unpainted collection of Dark Angels to my mom, who came up with the idea of naming my tactical squads after the Three Wise Men. So now my squads are led by Brother Melchior, who's white and sports a beard (using not-Sidonus' head from the Sternguard box), Brother Caspar, who's asian, and Brother Balthazar (the Dark Vengeance tactical sergeant, who actually never looked too white-y to me) who is black.

It kinda makes sense fluff-wise, as the Dark Angels recruit from diverse genepools.

Before you point it out, I know that Balthazar is really the master of the DA's 5th Company. But a) try telling that to my mom b) who cares, really

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
I made the mistake of showing my then unpainted collection of Dark Angels to my mom, who came up with the idea of naming my tactical squads after the Three Wise Men. So now my squads are led by Brother Melchior, who's white and sports a beard (using not-Sidonus' head from the Sternguard box), Brother Caspar, who's asian, and Brother Balthazar (the Dark Vengeance tactical sergeant, who actually never looked too white-y to me) who is black.

It kinda makes sense fluff-wise, as the Dark Angels recruit from diverse genepools.

Before you point it out, I know that Balthazar is really the master of the DA's 5th Company. But a) try telling that to my mom b) who cares, really

That's why i did it for my DA. Having all of them be super white was kinda awkward to me given that it specifically mentions they recruit from different worlds. Also, who cares about the names. I think there are multiple Ezekiel's in the fluff and it would make sense that there could be multiple Balthazars etc. That is kinda funny about your mom though. I am considering naming all of my main characters (sergeants etc) but I am unsure as of yet... w/e.

- VardenV2

I would imagine that 38,000 years into the future there would be no real distinct race anymore, humanity would of become homogenous by then.

Of course it would be variation from planet to planet, and there is examples of it as was stated earlier, such as Tallarn.

Also, just for space marines, it makes sense they would all be super white dudes. Spending centuries where you skin is covered in power armour with no time to work on your tan would turn you pretty damn white. That said, it is always nice to see some different colours on the battlefield.

In the 40k artwork, (almost) everyone is white. That is probably because all the artists are also white.
Of course, this is unrealistic. Unless all non-white people suddenly died out in 40k, there would be as much variety in skin tone as there is today, if not more. This is not just something that is in 40k, most sci-fi universes tend to have a (almost) completely white human population.
I've also heard that fair skin is easier to paint than dark skin. And for some planets it actually makes sense. Cadians are for example described in the fluff as having fair skin, light hair and violet eyes. Fenris, interestingly enough, does have dark-skinned people (Engir Krakendoom is mentioned to be one of them). But no one paints dark-skinned Space Wolves, because that would just look really awkward.
Other armies, like the Tallarns, look better with dark skin. Fortunately in 40k you have the freedom to paint your guys in every colour you wish.

As for the art and fluff, it is just that human populations being almost entirely fair-skinned is one of those unrealistic things that seem to pop up in every sci-fi franchise. Just like planets with only one climate zone (desert planets, rainforest planets), or spaceships banking as they turn, or sound in space or every planet being a unified entity instead of being broken up in hundreds of nation-states and I could go on all night about this but you probably get the point. There is lots and lots of unrealistic stuff in science fiction. And in 40k even more so, as it is closer to fantasy rather than sci-fi.

I paint a variety of skin tones. It;s not harder at all, you just need a different recipe. I use this guide to painting them, though I don't match the exact colors, I just kind of eyeball them. Also, I'm kind of a mediocre painter so you can probably do better than I did with those recipes.

Here's my badass black sarge. Bad photo, worse painter, still WIP, but you get the idea






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Btw, Ouze, I didn't know of that guide, thanks for bringing it up. I'll give it a look to see if I can give this guy a better looking skin...

 Very Superstitious wrote:
I would imagine that 38,000 years into the future there would be no real distinct race anymore, humanity would of become homogenous by then.

This.

About a third of my chaos cultists with exposed skin are of African descent...

JSoul wrote:

 Very Superstitious wrote:
I would imagine that 38,000 years into the future there would be no real distinct race anymore, humanity would of become homogenous by then.

This.

In theory, assuming ease of travel and free mixing or individuals, but racial differences develop as a result of isolation, so the Imperium with the vast spread of worlds with different environments and lack of regular travel for say 99%+ of the population means that even if humanity hit a homogenous baseline sometime in the DAoT, evolutionary pressures of different isolated worlds would result in different races again, and potentially to the point of different sub-species (see abhumans)

 Very Superstitious wrote:
I would imagine that 38,000 years into the future there would be no real distinct race anymore, humanity would of become homogenous by then.

That hasn't happened on this planet and we've got a longer timeline - 43,000 years since Cro-magnons, 600,000 years since Neanderthals. I think MajorWes has the best explanation.

I think JSoul and MajorWes have a point.

Humanity didn't become its many disparate racial groups overnight - and it's probable that given another 38000 years, more blending/changes will happen.

We became the various groups we are through a combination of genetics AND environments. Even if these groups DO colonise and keep everything as a monoculture, with their spread across the planet and its different climactic zones, changes WILL happen. Even given DAoT allowances for "terraforming".

The BLACK(charcoal black) skinned humans of the Salamander homeworld, for instance - changed to suit their environment.

Don't marines have this special thing that makes them look very much the same with identical skin tone after some time , so having different colored members in the same force would make little sense ?

Isn't the black color and orange hair of the salamanders sort of a gene defect . On a vulcanic world with less sun , because all the stuff hanging in the air , they would have to be albino white , if we went the how genetic actualy works way.

It's the radiation that turns Salamanders jet black, just like what happened to Vulkan. Normal humans who don't have Astartes organs remain pale?

Ouze wrote:

 Very Superstitious wrote:
I would imagine that 38,000 years into the future there would be no real distinct race anymore, humanity would of become homogenous by then.

That hasn't happened on this planet and we've got a longer timeline - 43,000 years since Cro-magnons, 600,000 years since Neanderthals. I think MajorWes has the best explanation.

Issue is that we've only had consistent contact between the different races in only a miniscule fraction of that time.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

JSoul wrote:

 Very Superstitious wrote:
I would imagine that 38,000 years into the future there would be no real distinct race anymore, humanity would of become homogenous by then.

This.

In theory, assuming ease of travel and free mixing or individuals, but racial differences develop as a result of isolation, so the Imperium with the vast spread of worlds with different environments and lack of regular travel for say 99%+ of the population means that even if humanity hit a homogenous baseline sometime in the DAoT, evolutionary pressures of different isolated worlds would result in different races again, and potentially to the point of different sub-species (see abhumans)

Yes very good point.

I've asked a similar question either on this or another forum, I don't remember , but the skin colors of peoples would be all over, not only because they are in different climates, but also because that are on different planets spanning the galaxy. So unless a lighter skin became extremely dominant and all the environments were similar in that that skin tone would be best for the humans living there, there is no way that all people would just be a similar color.

If need be, you can just look in a few BL books. In Betrayer by ADB they go on about how the World Eaters are a force of warrior brothers with many different skin tones. The Triarii Captain, Delvarus, is said to have dark skin.

Page 267:
"No Legion except the Ultramarines was as diverse, coloured by so many shades of skin from so many different worlds."

"Delvarus was unhelmed and unarmored for the pit fight. His dark skin marked his genesis in the jungles of whatever planet he'd once called home, and he bared iron teeth at his kindred, demanding one of them step forwards to face him."

PS It's a great book, really enjoyed the read.

My sisters have a mix of skin colour - thats how I bought them and very happy with it

 SaintTom wrote:
I've asked a similar question either on this or another forum, I don't remember , but the skin colors of peoples would be all over, not only because they are in different climates, but also because that are on different planets spanning the galaxy. So unless a lighter skin became extremely dominant and all the environments were similar in that that skin tone would be best for the humans living there, there is no way that all people would just be a similar color.

If need be, you can just look in a few BL books. In Betrayer by ADB they go on about how the World Eaters are a force of warrior brothers with many different skin tones. The Triarii Captain, Delvarus, is said to have dark skin.

Page 267:
"No Legion except the Ultramarines was as diverse, coloured by so many shades of skin from so many different worlds."

"Delvarus was unhelmed and unarmored for the pit fight. His dark skin marked his genesis in the jungles of whatever planet he'd once called home, and he bared iron teeth at his kindred, demanding one of them step forwards to face him."

PS It's a great book, really enjoyed the read.

I guess that solidifies it then. Also, that guy sounds terrifying haha. I can only speak from a more "historical" context regarding the armies that 40k armies sort of emulate. To me, someone like Ultramarines, who heavily emulate the classic Roman feel, should be incredibly diverse. Rome recruited soldiers from all over the world, often times valuing non-Romans for their fighting skills (Celts, Gauls, Greeks etc). So to me, it only makes sense to have a good variation.

I know that from the limited Dark Angels blurbs I have read, they recruit from many worlds ranging from cannibalistic jungle worlds with an aesthetic akin to the Mayans / Amazon regions, the unimaginatively named Plains World (Native Americans) and many many worlds in between. Most Dark Angels are shown to be super pale with blond or black hair though. Maybe all that time in the shadows of the Rock makes them pale beyond reason haha. It seemed strange to me, hence badass black man Deathwing Sergeant.

I know that Black Templars recruit from all over the galaxy, getting people wherever they can. It only makes sense that they would have one of the most diverse chapters in the Imperium. Yet they are all shown as angry crusading white-man knights. My guess is to help sell the aesthetic of the army but w/e.

That painting tutorial is nice. Thanks! Those painted examples, particularly those scouts, look great in my opinion. They each stand out, like a marine should, and all fit the same flavor. It doesn't look weird or anything. I find when they all are pasty white men they look like clones and it's weird. Well done

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Here's my badass black sarge. Bad photo, worse painter, still WIP, but you get the idea

Spoiler:

.

The arch of his eyes make him look, imo, quite a bit like Keith David in The Thing.

 Ouze wrote:

 Very Superstitious wrote:
I would imagine that 38,000 years into the future there would be no real distinct race anymore, humanity would of become homogenous by then.

That hasn't happened on this planet and we've got a longer timeline - 43,000 years since Cro-magnons, 600,000 years since Neanderthals.

But it's been much. much less than 43000 years since those different races started mixing freely. Hell, in some countries they still don't. Have a look through photos of the Chinese or Korean armies and see how many white or black people you can spot...

There has been a lot of talk over the years here in Oz about how the true dark-skinned Aboriginal is slowly disappearing. You still see them out west where they don't really mix with outsiders, but in the cities they seem to be growing progressively whiter.


I don't think that's really the thinking behind the ethcicity (or lack thereof) in 40K, though. It's hard to portray different racial groups in a fantasy setting without stereotyping, at which point you get declared a racist. Bad enough when it's a completely made-up fantasy or alien race, and you can at least claim that the similarities in cultural styling are just an inspiration... but with humans, it's a bit more thorny.

Paint your models whatever color you like. In the Imperium, solar radiation, environmental pollutants, cross-wired genetics and all sorts of other craziness has lead to people with blue hair, silver eyes and cat ears... and this is considered perfectly normal.

So white people, black people, red people, yellow people, brown people... they all exist in the Imperium. Glavia, for example, is a traditionally "black" human planet, and the best pilots in the Imperium.

Well, theres two things at play... the first is that by the time Earth started establishing colonies, the obvious physical identifiers of "race" etc. would be non-existent after countless generations of "inter-breeding". The second is that the colonies had 10,000 years of isolation via the dark age of technology, so individual planets became "races" unto themselves. Those races would be largely based on the race of the colonists, so given that they were likely colonized by what was largely a homogenous population, its safe to assume that most current (as of M41) "races" would share largely similar physical characteristics.

Because most guard regiments and SM Chapters recruit from one planet or group of nearby planets, and in most cases they will have have the same gene-sources and come from the same stock. Catachan may have been populated by a predominantly white section of humanity and eventually the other colours were bred out.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Here's my badass black sarge. Bad photo, worse painter, still WIP, but you get the idea

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, Ouze, I didn't know of that guide, thanks for bringing it up. I'll give it a look to see if I can give this guy a better looking skin...

I think that's pretty good, actually. Certainly better than me when I try to paint skin. There's a reason why I didn't go human or elf