Tyranid Release in January: GW pre-orders up, discussion starts pg 80

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**Eldercaveman**

Caederes wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
But a re-roll to wound would make Toxin sacs against anything T4 or lower pointless, which would discourage you from buying them. When really those high initiative, high volume, rending attacks with poison will be great for taking down Monsterous creatures. Especially win scything talons for complete re-rolls.

OT, has anything more been picked up about Old One Eye, from the sounds of it he has had quite a boost in the White Dwarf battle report.

We know two things for sure about Old One Eye from the White Dwarf;

1) He is 220 points, or 40 points cheaper than he used to be.
2) He "regenerates wounds like crazy".

The second one leads me to believe he can take an It Will Not Die roll for each wound he has suffered, not just one per turn, and gets them on a 4+ or 3+ or something like that. Probably has five or six wounds as well. Something like that would actually justify him still being 100 points more than a stock Carnifex.

I'd love to have a reason to convert me one but with my limited time I can't justify big projects that won't see table time sadly.

**Caederes**

To be fair, he could well end up being a star. However, from what we know, two stock Carnifexes are about the same points as Old One Eye. At least it sounds like they actually gave him some good rules, and that points drop is still big.

**Sasori**

Was it confirmed that the writer is actually Adam Troike?

**Linkdead**

Sasori wrote:
Was it confirmed that the writer is actually Adam Troike?

It is the first codex listed as authored by the "design team".

**dakkajet**

Linkdead wrote:
Sasori wrote:
Was it confirmed that the writer is actually Adam Troike?

It is the first codex listed as authored by the "design team".

I thought it was Adam Troike too. Wasnt there a small disscusion at the start of the topic?

**Redemption**

No, it's supposedly by the 'Design Team', like the recent 40k supplements.

**Kroothawk**

Anonymous source over at Faeit212 wrote:One kit makes up both the Harpy and the Hive Crone
The model is larger than any other flyer we have for from GW

The Harpy can be labelled as a bomber and comes with a stranglethorn cannon or heavy venom cannon, and can drop biological spore bombs (3 choices).

The Hive Crone is meant to take on air targets with its claws, and comes with drool cannon, that spits digestive acid onto its foes. On the bottom of the wings the Hive Crone comes with 4 tentaclides (missiles) that are used to take down aircraft.

And over there they make a big fuss about Old One Eye being included in the "new" Carnifex kit. I don't understand it, because there already IS an Old One Eye head in the kit, sometimes called the regeneration biomorph head but having only one eye.

**Avian**

Presumably they are trying to distract people so they won't ask where the so-called Dominar and Karakinos went to.

**brassangel**

Eldercaveman wrote:
Caederes wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
But a re-roll to wound would make Toxin sacs against anything T4 or lower pointless, which would discourage you from buying them. When really those high initiative, high volume, rending attacks with poison will be great for taking down Monsterous creatures. Especially win scything talons for complete re-rolls.

OT, has anything more been picked up about Old One Eye, from the sounds of it he has had quite a boost in the White Dwarf battle report.

We know two things for sure about Old One Eye from the White Dwarf;

1) He is 220 points, or 40 points cheaper than he used to be.
2) He "regenerates wounds like crazy".

The second one leads me to believe he can take an It Will Not Die roll for each wound he has suffered, not just one per turn, and gets them on a 4+ or 3+ or something like that. Probably has five or six wounds as well. Something like that would actually justify him still being 100 points more than a stock Carnifex.

I'd love to have a reason to convert me one but with my limited time I can't justify big projects that won't see table time sadly.

He's not a big project. The stock Carnifex kit comes with Crushing Claws and a Regeration head.

**rigeld2**

And Talons!

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Redemption wrote:
No, it's supposedly by the 'Design Team', like the recent 40k supplements.

They got annoyed by Ward hate, and want to redirect all the hate from actual people toward a vague non-personal entity.

**Symbio Joe**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Redemption wrote:
No, it's supposedly by the 'Design Team', like the recent 40k supplements.

They got annoyed by Ward hate, and want to redirect all the hate from actual people toward a vague non-personal entity.

Games Workshop then. OOOOOOoooooOOOOOoooooh!

Sorry, too easy, couldn't resist.

**streamdragon**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Redemption wrote:
No, it's supposedly by the 'Design Team', like the recent 40k supplements.

They got annoyed by Ward hate, and want to redirect all the hate from actual people toward a vague non-personal entity.

Yeah, but when the first appearance of the Hentaispex is devouring a Shrine world of Sisters of Battle, we'll know.

We'll know.

On-topic, did the WD battle report showcase Hormagaunts at all? Or Raveners? I want to love those little gribblies, but I just can't see any good reason to put them on the table. Hoping against hope that that will change.

**Sinful Hero**

-Loki- wrote:
Sinful Hero wrote:

I didn't directly mean 40k terminology when I say "tank" and "artillery", but your classification works just as well. Might make these changes though-

Spoiler:

Exocrine - indirect fire(Heavy Infantry/Vehicles)
Biovore-indirect fire(Light Infantry)
Tyrannofex - direct fire
Tervigon - transport (after a fashion)
Haruspex - melee linebreaker
Trygon - flanking brawler
Mawloc - deep striking interference
Dreadnought - jack of all trades dreadnought
Hive Tyrant - psychic jack of all trades dreadnought
Harpy - anti tank flyer
Crone - anti infantry flyer

I was leaving the Biovore out because I was only talking about monstrous creatures. If we start putting in everything else, the list gets looooooong.

Yeah, I noticed that too, so I just stopped at Biovore. Not really many other shooting dedicated units in the dex anyway besides Hive Guard and Pyrovores. And they may be repurposed with the new codex.

streamdragon wrote:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Redemption wrote:
No, it's supposedly by the 'Design Team', like the recent 40k supplements.

They got annoyed by Ward hate, and want to redirect all the hate from actual people toward a vague non-personal entity.

Yeah, but when the first appearance of the Hentaispex is devouring a Shrine world of Sisters of Battle, we'll know.

We'll know.

On-topic, did the WD battle report showcase Hormagaunts at all? Or Raveners? I want to love those little gribblies, but I just can't see any good reason to put them on the table. Hoping against hope that that will change.

Not as far as we know. White Dwarf guy said it was a mostly Monstrous Creature list vs Tau. I didn't read anything about who won either.

**HiveFleetCollossus**

streamdragon wrote:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Redemption wrote:
No, it's supposedly by the 'Design Team', like the recent 40k supplements.

They got annoyed by Ward hate, and want to redirect all the hate from actual people toward a vague non-personal entity.

Yeah, but when the first appearance of the Hentaispex is devouring a Shrine world of Sisters of Battle, we'll know.

We'll know.

Can we really stop calling it that? Thanks.

**streamdragon**

HiveFleetCollossus wrote:
streamdragon wrote:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Redemption wrote:
No, it's supposedly by the 'Design Team', like the recent 40k supplements.

They got annoyed by Ward hate, and want to redirect all the hate from actual people toward a vague non-personal entity.

Yeah, but when the first appearance of the Hentaispex is devouring a Shrine world of Sisters of Battle, we'll know.

We'll know.

Can we really stop calling it that? Thanks.

Was it really not clear that my post was a joke?

And I find the name hilarious, myself.

**Red Corsair**

Caederes wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
But a re-roll to wound would make Toxin sacs against anything T4 or lower pointless, which would discourage you from buying them. When really those high initiative, high volume, rending attacks with poison will be great for taking down Monsterous creatures. Especially win scything talons for complete re-rolls.

OT, has anything more been picked up about Old One Eye, from the sounds of it he has had quite a boost in the White Dwarf battle report.

We know two things for sure about Old One Eye from the White Dwarf;

1) He is 220 points, or 40 points cheaper than he used to be.
2) He "regenerates wounds like crazy".

The second one leads me to believe he can take an It Will Not Die roll for each wound he has suffered, not just one per turn, and gets them on a 4+ or 3+ or something like that. Probably has five or six wounds as well. Something like that would actually justify him still being 100 points more than a stock Carnifex.

Ha ha, yeah I doubt it. It's a battle report from white dwarf, he could be rolling IWND rolls needing a 6+ and pass like 2-3 in the game and those guys would say that. Presumably he will get come kind of boost but rolling 3+ IWND on every lost wound is more busted then FNP 4+ on a MC. I actually hope thats not true as I would prefer balanced rules for a change.

**oldone**

I could see reg being IWND this codex and old one eye having it either a 4+ or him get multiple rolls a turn. Or they maje him op by giving him both

I also wonder if he'll be part of a carn brood or by himself, fluff says he's a leader beast after all.

**Eldercaveman**

brassangel wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
Caederes wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
But a re-roll to wound would make Toxin sacs against anything T4 or lower pointless, which would discourage you from buying them. When really those high initiative, high volume, rending attacks with poison will be great for taking down Monsterous creatures. Especially win scything talons for complete re-rolls.

OT, has anything more been picked up about Old One Eye, from the sounds of it he has had quite a boost in the White Dwarf battle report.

We know two things for sure about Old One Eye from the White Dwarf;

1) He is 220 points, or 40 points cheaper than he used to be.
2) He "regenerates wounds like crazy".

The second one leads me to believe he can take an It Will Not Die roll for each wound he has suffered, not just one per turn, and gets them on a 4+ or 3+ or something like that. Probably has five or six wounds as well. Something like that would actually justify him still being 100 points more than a stock Carnifex.

I'd love to have a reason to convert me one but with my limited time I can't justify big projects that won't see table time sadly.

He's not a big project. The stock Carnifex kit comes with Crushing Claws and a Regeration head.

Yeah to do the bare minimum.

**tetrisphreak**

All i know is that if carnifexes see a point drop and/or an FOC switch the 9 i own will see the table again.

**Redemption**

tetrisphreak wrote:
All i know is that if carnifexes see a point drop and/or an FOC switch the 9 i own will see the table again.

The ~40 point drop on Carnifexes has come from the WD leaks I believe, so that's pretty trustworthy.

**tetrisphreak**

Redemption wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
All i know is that if carnifexes see a point drop and/or an FOC switch the 9 i own will see the table again.

The ~40 point drop on Carnifexes has come from the WD leaks I believe, so that's pretty trustworthy.

That's what I'm hoping to be true. The thing is we've been put through the wringer so many times with this codex release (false rumors and being trolled ALL YEAR) i'm in "Believe it when i see it" mode. But i'm cautiously optimistic. I have a Stone Crusher, 3 screamer killers, 2 or 3 Barbed Strangler fexes, a Venom Cannon Fex, and a couple magnetized ones for pinch hitting (they usually get devourers).

**Sasori**

tetrisphreak wrote:
Redemption wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
All i know is that if carnifexes see a point drop and/or an FOC switch the 9 i own will see the table again.

The ~40 point drop on Carnifexes has come from the WD leaks I believe, so that's pretty trustworthy.

That's what I'm hoping to be true. The thing is we've been put through the wringer so many times with this codex release (false rumors and being trolled ALL YEAR) i'm in "Believe it when i see it" mode. But i'm cautiously optimistic. I have a Stone Crusher, 3 screamer killers, 2 or 3 Barbed Strangler fexes, a Venom Cannon Fex, and a couple magnetized ones for pinch hitting (they usually get devourers).

I'm really holding out for Warriors being good. I really like the models, but it doesn't look good so far...

**gorgon**

Therion wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Stealers and Warriors suck balls as the army might still be competitive in some Zilla format, but naturally it would be disappointing if they still couldn't fix the T4-bad armour save-no invulnerable save-multiwound model problem. Both the T4 eternal warrior or T5 standard variants would work as long as the points cost is balanced -- Either way they'd be playable maybe even highly competitive.

GW has mostly overvalued multiwound models going back to the beginning of 3rd. I'm definitely hoping for EW, but if they didn't make that change, it's at least consistent behavior.

TheBrandedOne wrote:
Honestly, I think we just have to wait.

I don't go back as far as you guys, but I do remember tooled-up Carnifexes wrecking face and swarms of Genestealers/Broodlord just straight up eating things. Two books ago, if I recall, when I first got into 40k.

I don't want to be a doom-and-gloom naysayer, and many people on here after seeing leaked Codex pages, are already deciding on units. But I mean, we could be surprised. I don't recall if anyone predicted how surprisingly powerful Coteaz + Troop Inquisitor Retinues could be before the GK Codex, did they? It was like a hidden gem in the Codex. Not like the GK needed more powerful options, but you know. Trying to make a point. There might be something pretty awesome that we don't know about.

With that said, though, I will also admit that things look pretty grim at the moment with things we have confirmed. Tervigons needing mandatory 30 Gants, no Pod, Warriors still dying to Krak Missiles, Genestealers being a cracked glass cannon... I so badly want this Codex to be at least mid-tier. I wait to see what the big beasties/flyers really do, (I'm particularly curious about the Haruspex "eating" things) and the updates to some of the less viable options, Pyrovores, Venomthropes, Lictors, etc... but I mean if we can be serious, they will probably be almost the exact same as last Codex. I just don't see them drastically changing anything. And big beasties, even with their good save/toughness/high Wounds... They can just die to massed fire/good sniper rolls/etc. Nidzilla has its own problems and I don't want to run it, to be honest.

I'm REALLY hoping for nasty Hormagaunts again. I love those little gribblies so much more than Termagants. If I can run Hormagaunts and a Carnifex again, Screamer-Killer maybe, I'll be pretty happy. I like the idea of Tyranids being an intergalactic locust swarm.

Tl;dr: We wait with bated breath for our beloved 'Nids, Warriors and Genestealers do not a success or failure make.

Tyranid players have always adapted. Consider the twists and turns the army has been through with every edition and the power builds that emerged.

2nd ed codex - Fast and deadly
3rd ed rulebook list - SLOW steamroller horde
3rd ed codex - Rending mutant hordes with various mutable genus support
3rd ed codex under 4th ed rules - Beast CC Warriors and dual VC Carnifexes
4th ed codex - Nidzilla, and later Stealer Shock
5th ed codex - Tervigon-based builds
5th ed codex under 6th ed rules - Tervigon-based with Biomancy spam

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

gorgon wrote:
Therion wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Stealers and Warriors suck balls as the army might still be competitive in some Zilla format, but naturally it would be disappointing if they still couldn't fix the T4-bad armour save-no invulnerable save-multiwound model problem. Both the T4 eternal warrior or T5 standard variants would work as long as the points cost is balanced -- Either way they'd be playable maybe even highly competitive.

GW has mostly overvalued multiwound models going back to the beginning of 3rd. I'm definitely hoping for EW, but if they didn't make that change, it's at least consistent behavior.

TheBrandedOne wrote:
Honestly, I think we just have to wait.

I don't go back as far as you guys, but I do remember tooled-up Carnifexes wrecking face and swarms of Genestealers/Broodlord just straight up eating things. Two books ago, if I recall, when I first got into 40k.

I don't want to be a doom-and-gloom naysayer, and many people on here after seeing leaked Codex pages, are already deciding on units. But I mean, we could be surprised. I don't recall if anyone predicted how surprisingly powerful Coteaz + Troop Inquisitor Retinues could be before the GK Codex, did they? It was like a hidden gem in the Codex. Not like the GK needed more powerful options, but you know. Trying to make a point. There might be something pretty awesome that we don't know about.

With that said, though, I will also admit that things look pretty grim at the moment with things we have confirmed. Tervigons needing mandatory 30 Gants, no Pod, Warriors still dying to Krak Missiles, Genestealers being a cracked glass cannon... I so badly want this Codex to be at least mid-tier. I wait to see what the big beasties/flyers really do, (I'm particularly curious about the Haruspex "eating" things) and the updates to some of the less viable options, Pyrovores, Venomthropes, Lictors, etc... but I mean if we can be serious, they will probably be almost the exact same as last Codex. I just don't see them drastically changing anything. And big beasties, even with their good save/toughness/high Wounds... They can just die to massed fire/good sniper rolls/etc. Nidzilla has its own problems and I don't want to run it, to be honest.

I'm REALLY hoping for nasty Hormagaunts again. I love those little gribblies so much more than Termagants. If I can run Hormagaunts and a Carnifex again, Screamer-Killer maybe, I'll be pretty happy. I like the idea of Tyranids being an intergalactic locust swarm.

Tl;dr: We wait with bated breath for our beloved 'Nids, Warriors and Genestealers do not a success or failure make.

Tyranid players have always adapted. Consider the twists and turns the army has been through with every edition and the power builds that emerged.

2nd ed codex - Fast and deadly
3rd ed rulebook list - SLOW steamroller horde
3rd ed codex - Rending mutant hordes with various mutable genus support
3rd ed codex under 4th ed rules - Beast CC Warriors and dual VC Carnifexes
4th ed codex - Nidzilla, and later Stealer Shock
5th ed codex - Tervigon-based builds
5th ed codex under 6th ed rules - Tervigon-based with Biomancy spam

For 5th under 6th, you forgot flyrant support.

**tetrisphreak**

Eldercaveman wrote:
brassangel wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
Caederes wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
But a re-roll to wound would make Toxin sacs against anything T4 or lower pointless, which would discourage you from buying them. When really those high initiative, high volume, rending attacks with poison will be great for taking down Monsterous creatures. Especially win scything talons for complete re-rolls.

OT, has anything more been picked up about Old One Eye, from the sounds of it he has had quite a boost in the White Dwarf battle report.

We know two things for sure about Old One Eye from the White Dwarf;

1) He is 220 points, or 40 points cheaper than he used to be.
2) He "regenerates wounds like crazy".

The second one leads me to believe he can take an It Will Not Die roll for each wound he has suffered, not just one per turn, and gets them on a 4+ or 3+ or something like that. Probably has five or six wounds as well. Something like that would actually justify him still being 100 points more than a stock Carnifex.

I'd love to have a reason to convert me one but with my limited time I can't justify big projects that won't see table time sadly.

He's not a big project. The stock Carnifex kit comes with Crushing Claws and a Regeration head.

Yeah to do the bare minimum.

I'll bet if you used the haruspex claws and clipped/smoothed over the carnifex chimneys you'd have a pretty good conversion. Plus an exocrine.

**Frozen Ocean**

Eldercaveman wrote:

Yeah to do the bare minimum.

Well... yes. It's a standard Carnifex equipped with a pair of Crushing Claws and Scything Talons, apart from his famous eye injury. Apart from maybe his small head spikes, it really isn't that unique-looking. What could you do in a "big project" to make it look more like Old One-Eye, other than modeling it extensively for the sole purpose of looking unique rather than looking more like the character?

**CthuluIsSpy**

Frozen Ocean wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:

Yeah to do the bare minimum.

Well... yes. It's a standard Carnifex equipped with a pair of Crushing Claws and Scything Talons, apart from his famous eye injury. Apart from maybe his small head spikes, it really isn't that unique-looking. What could you do in a "big project" to make it look more like Old One-Eye, other than modeling it extensively for the sole purpose of looking unique rather than looking more like the character?

Hmmm perchance use an old carnosaur had? Or some sort of dragon? Greenstuff is always an option.

**Eldercaveman**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Frozen Ocean wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:

Yeah to do the bare minimum.

Well... yes. It's a standard Carnifex equipped with a pair of Crushing Claws and Scything Talons, apart from his famous eye injury. Apart from maybe his small head spikes, it really isn't that unique-looking. What could you do in a "big project" to make it look more like Old One-Eye, other than modeling it extensively for the sole purpose of looking unique rather than looking more like the character?

Hmmm perchance use an old carnosaur had? Or some sort of dragon? Greenstuff is always an option.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/535923.page ...... So much more.

**Frozen Ocean**

That is exactly what I just said. There's nothing explicitly "Old One-Eye" about that model; it is nice, yes, and unique, yes, but there's nothing about it specific to Old One-Eye other than the (custom) Crushing Claws and regeneration head. The fact that the claws are custom and not actual Crushing Claws does nothing to make it look more like Old One-Eye. Just because you could possibly spend a lot of time and effort doesn't mean that it is what it takes to make it look like Old One-Eye.

That person's Tyranids are nice, but all of them are converted or customised to some degree - it only makes them look different, not more like how they "should". By the same token, a perfectly as-packaged squad of Warriors, however well-painted, would be "yeah to do the bare minimum", which is totally condescending and implies that you must make things incredibly difficult for yourself or else it's not worthy of consideration.

So yes, you could make Old One-Eye into a big project, just as you could spend months on every individual gaunt to make them look cool and unique, but don't imply that not doing so is a bad thing.