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2013/12/30 03:30:31
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
I wonder if the second edition of IA 4 The Anphelion Project is going to come close after the Nid codex, our big creatures need a way to deal with all that D stuff (and the Harridan should be ungroundable).
2013/12/30 06:13:59
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
And please remember (before freaking out) that his record is not great. Wait for confirmation from other sources.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 06:14:46
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2013/12/30 06:25:58
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Well if that list is accurate, nothing's gone up in price.
My want to be optimistic about the future is warring with with my skepticism about some rumor mongers!
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2013/12/30 06:45:11
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
Plus apparently you can take a brood spawned from the almighty Ravenor
Fake methinks.
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
2013/12/30 06:51:54
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
And please remember (before freaking out) that his record is not great. Wait for confirmation from other sources.
It lists dual boxes for the Tygon/Mawloc, and the Tyrannofex/Tervigon, but not the new Haruspex/Exocrine? The Exocrine isn't mentioned at all... Also, why is the Chinese Codex listed, but not any other languages? None of the boxes are consistent with their contents:some are listed as broods, while others are not(Ravenor Brood and Warriors for instance). I'm not sure if I would have posted it myself...
brassangel wrote: Also, I still have no proof the rules won't be perfectly viable in 6th edition.
You've read the same Warrior and Genestealer entries the rest of us have, right?
pretre wrote: My want to be optimistic about the future is warring with with my skepticism about some rumor mongers!
Nothing about it stands out as being particularly egregious. The higher prices are on the new stuff, all the current stuff stays the same. That matches with most recent releases, doesn't it?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/30 07:14:24
It lists dual boxes for the Tygon/Mawloc, and the Tyrannofex/Tervigon, but not the new Haruspex/Exocrine? The Exocrine isn't mentioned at all...
That's the same for all new 6E dual-kit releases. The Wraithguard box lid doesn't mention Wraithblades, the Wraithfighter doesn't mention the Crimson Hunter, and Hive Guard doesn't include Tyrant Guard.
2013/12/30 08:06:22
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
-Loki- wrote: Actually, I think this is the first 6th edition book without a turkey of a model.
Just turkey rules.
We've put up with it for so long, whats another edition...
2nd, 3rd, 4th edition the Tyranids had good rules. It's just 5th and (theoretically) 6th where the rules were bad.
Compare to Tau where they had one gimmick build in 3rd that was nerfed in a White Dwarf article, and got progressively worse for ten years until 6th edition codex made them powerful.
Also, Tyranids are the only non-Imperial faction to get a codex every edition.
2013/12/30 08:19:18
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
brassangel wrote: Also, I still have no proof the rules won't be perfectly viable in 6th edition.
You've read the same Warrior and Genestealer entries the rest of us have, right?
Yes, and I'm not too worried about it until I play a bunch of games with the book. Pretty much every panic button on the forums before the release of a codex has been wrong, and my actually playing with the rules will tell me more than the whining, overreactions of people who haven't played with them yet. Even once it's in our hands, most people will play one game and make dumb conclusions.
We heard the Helldrake was too expensive.
We heard the Riptide was too easy to kill and didn't pack the firepower for the points.
We heard Demons were unplayable without blanket Eternal Warrior.
We heard the Eldar book suffered an across-the-board fail. People still said this a week into owning it.
In fact, it's because people are expecting bad things for those two Tyranids units that I'm pretty sure they'll see considerable play. Even if they didn't change at all, they can work fine if the rest of the book is solid (which none of us are sure of yet).
When I tried Genestealers and Warriors out in 5th, they were almost good, and definitely worth it when they hit combat. The problem was, we didn't have ways to distract the opponent enough to get them there. Now it seems we will have a ton of new options. If an opponent is still wasting the Krak Missiles no one uses in competitive play on Warriors when there are 9 monstrous creatures - 4 of which are flying - coming at them, they are terrible players and I'll take the free win.
They don't need super armor that's unjustified, or toughness despite being naked and fleshy; they definitely don't need a transport. They need a role, and Tyranids need menacing amounts of target saturation.
When I tried Genestealers and Warriors out in 5th, they were almost good, and definitely worth it when they hit combat. The problem was, we didn't have ways to distract the opponent enough to get them there. Now it seems we will have a ton of new options. If an opponent is still wasting the Krak Missiles no one uses in competitive play on Warriors when there are 9 monstrous creatures - 4 of which are flying - coming at them, they are terrible players and I'll take the free win.
They don't need super armor that's unjustified, or toughness despite being naked and fleshy; they definitely don't need a transport. They need a role, and Tyranids need menacing amounts of target saturation.
Honestly, I'd take Warriors now if they could do a little more damage while advancing. Buff Devourers/Deathspitters and I'd be all over them. Give Venom Cannons multiple AP3 shots instead of a single weedy blast and I'd field a few.
My experience with Warriors is that while they're very strong in melee, it took them an age to get there and do any damage. They would rarely justify their points from melee alone, and their shooting ability did little to bridge the gap thanks to always being outranged, or not having enough weight of fire to impact MEQs. Some combination of poison, rending or a 24" range on Devourers/Deathspitters would resolve that nicely.
2013/12/30 09:53:56
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
Grey Templar wrote: The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws.
2013/12/30 10:11:42
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
I'm pretty sure it took more effort to do that teaser, than it would of done if they made a good teaser. Common, i don't think i could of done worse, and i can't use that software. Why didn't they have that world change colour as if it was infested?! or something...
Roll on good Hormagaunts, Warriors and Genestealers
2013/12/30 12:04:22
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
brassangel wrote: The problem was, we didn't have ways to distract the opponent enough to get them there. Now it seems we will have a ton of new options. If an opponent is still wasting the Krak Missiles no one uses in competitive play on Warriors when there are 9 monstrous creatures - 4 of which are flying - coming at them, they are terrible players and I'll take the free win.
They don't need super armor that's unjustified, or toughness despite being naked and fleshy; they definitely don't need a transport. They need a role, and Tyranids need menacing amounts of target saturation.
This logic is beyond terrible. Absolutely no real thought about the payoffs and disadvantages of the different models, just claims that target saturation with higher priority threats may be enough to shield Warriors to see some return on your points investment.
For starters, I don't see anything in your post to justify comparing Warriors being gak on for the new codex, to units from other codex's new being gak on. This isn't about us predicting why they will be bad in the new codex, we already know they are terrible, and the points being by others made is that nothing has changed. You also make a point of why they won't be terrible in the new dex because of new MC's, but Tyranid lists are already basically Troop Choice + Monstrous Creatures. Basically (well, literally) everything you said already applies and Warriors still are just as useless.
With the info we have about the coming codex, for 300 points I can get a 6 man Warrior squad with Deathspitters & LW+BS. For the same amount of points I can get a 30 man squad of Termagants and take a Tervigon as troop choice with Toxin Sacs & Adrenal Glands.
Obvious benefits aside, I'm going to try to drive a point home by using the logic hammer - your opponent making a conscious choice not to fire missiles at your Warriors because they are a lower level threat than the Flyrant and Crone all up in their grills turn 2, does not justify Warriors as a solid troop choice, for the reason that You could instead have 30 Gants + Tervigon also not getting fired upon, spawning more troops each turn it is left to it's devices, also sitting comfortably with the knowledge that as soon as it becomes a threat, it will not be wiped out by a single turn of shooting from a 3 man missile suqad. You can not say the same about Warriors.
On the flipside of the coin, your opponent firing his missiles at your Warriors instead of your fliers does not justify their role either. Ok, yes your MC's avoided a round of missile fire. But lets look at what I spoke about earlier, the payoffs to taking these models, because you just threw 300 points out the window to keep likely 1-3 wounds (and that's being very generous) from being taken from your Harpy. It does not take many missiles to kill a squad of Warriors. Nice. You know what could have done with those points? Bought two more Harpys. With points to spare if they get the rumored point reduction. The situation you described does not read to me like the "free-win" you claim it to be. This just seems like your opponent cut you down a large number of your points in the form of a small number of models, for the cost of a minimal amount of effort from his side of the field. Sure, you still have all your MC's leftover. But you have less MC's than you could have had, and your MC's WILL go down, under weight of fire.
I'm gonna put this in simpler terms and give you a plausible situation to envision (and no this won't happen every game but it will happen, and is a plausible situation, and certainly often enough to shoot down any hopes at competitive placing) would be the quick slaughter of your two Warrior squads in the very early game, leaving you with a 1000 pt army of MC's, and them with 1500 of space marine resilience. You will both be tough, but he'll be tougher because you spent 500 of your points on very non-tough or cost-effective models. This is just an example, sure you can argue that you might be taking 1 warrior squad and 1 tervi-gant clan squad, all you are doing is putting the same wakenesses on the field just in a smaller dosage, "somewhat" minimizing a completely unnecessary loss that was completely avoidable in the first place by not taking such a "free-kill-if-you-want-to-take-it" prone unit.
I don't even think I should have to mention what would happen should your mission need scoring units, your opponent has missiles, and your plan is still using high toughness saturation as a pseudo-shield for your Warriors.
And FYI if missiles don't see much competitive play, Warriors see absolutely none.
Think about why this may be. I hope this puts an end to the posts of "warriors are fine, GW are doing their job, we have plenty of viable troop choices, rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb". Warriors are basura. GW has had the opportunity to fix them, and with the info we have so far, they have chosen not to. So warriors will remain basura, until new info surfaces that they are in fact, no longer basura.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/12/30 12:09:54
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2013/12/30 12:04:30
Subject: Re:Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): teaser p64
I know most of the world the date system is day, month, year, but I found it rather musing that it was 04.01.2014 (April fools) by typical American dating system .
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
2013/12/30 12:36:32
Subject: Re:Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post)
Odd_Socks wrote: Surely that is the worst teaser video ever, and that is saying something, considering some of the previous ones.
What are you talking about?! That sound effect at the end? Now we know what it sounds like when a 'nid takes a poo! After months and months of speculation, the truth is finally revealed!
"White Lions: They're Better Than Cancer!" is not exactly a compelling marketing slogan. - AlexHolker
2013/12/30 12:42:17
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): teaser p64
For the record SHUPPET, we currently don't know the cost of weapons- just a few biomorphs. It's reasonable to assume they stayed the same, but several biomorphs DID change cost for some units(scything talons on Genestealers).
Sinful Hero wrote: For the record SHUPPET, we currently don't know the cost of weapons- just a few biomorphs. It's reasonable to assume they stayed the same, but several biomorphs DID change cost for some units(scything talons on Genestealers).
That's very true, which is why I tried to emphasise more than once in my post that I was talking about the information that we have to work with, not wishlists, not theories, and not rumours, which there are a lot of.
That being said, assuming Warriors came with free Deathspitters and BW+LW (which we KNOW they don't), a 5 man squad of naked Warriors is still the cost of a Harpy. Assuming their gear costs have been lowered drastically, which we can probably suspect they haven't, a lot of what I said hasn't changed.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2013/12/30 14:38:29
Subject: Re:Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): teaser p64
Roll on good Hormagaunts, Warriors and Genestealers
...and Lictors...and Carnfexes?
I really really hope the carnefex makes a come back. Lictors? I doubt they'll be good. They've never been good but that has never stopped me from taking them anyway!
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. -Groucho Marx
2013/12/30 15:26:01
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): teaser p64
Hmm, looks like I'll just be going for the regular (rather than LE) 'dex.
The teaser actually was OK to me, though . The font was cool, some of the grammar could have used a little help . "Dangers which seek our destruction" "Dangers that will consume us"... c'mon man!
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