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Sidstyler wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
They also fire their weapons with a series of muscle spasms, not a giant, hydraulic-driven piece of machinery. Show me a guy..."firing his ammo" as far as a similarly sized .50 caliber can fire a bullet and I'll concede the argument.

That explains why the exocrine and most other Tyranid organisms are always smiling I guess.

LOL! Well played!

MadCowCrazy wrote:

 brassangel wrote:


They also fire their weapons with a series of muscle spasms, not a giant, hydraulic-driven piece of machinery. Show me a guy..."firing his ammo" as far as a similarly sized .50 caliber can fire a bullet and I'll concede the argument.

This comes to mind in terms of raw power vs size of creature



In terms of physics (and I'm no expert) but if you could bioengineer a claw with a mass of say 100-200kg the power exerted should be similar to that of a melta gun as a pistol shrimps blast generates heat of 4000+ celcius

Sweet...which explains why Tyranid MC's can rip things open with their claws, and have crazy cool guns when up close. Just like the Pistol Shrimp.

The argument was about range. The little critter from your video there has a range of a few feet. It's harmless after that. Just like Tyranids. So you further proved my point.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Stronger at shooting? By giving us a new 24" ranged gun? Be still my beating heart...

Yeah, how dare Tyranids get something with a more versatile gun than a Demolisher, on a body that's harder to kill and has the ability to fight too.

You know there are rifles out there that can out-range a cannon, right? It's still artillery, just on something that doesn't function like a Basilisk.

Caederes wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:

"living artillery peice" with a gun larger than a marine. With a range, the same as a marine's. There is lot one thing I can say, other than I'm not getting one.

6 S7 AP2 shots at 24" is still very decent, especially on a T6 W5 3+ monstrous creature. Heck, the S7 AP2 large blast is also pretty darn good from the same model. For 170 points, I really don't see the issue? It's pretty durable when in cover, has lots of strong firepower, two firing modes, BS4 if it doesn't move, and it is the same cost as a bare-bones Riptide. It might not be as good as a Riptide, but it still looks like a good value monster.

I do agree though that fluff-wise an artillery beast really should have 36" range bare minimum, but I don't think it will stop the Exocrine from being very useful.

Not to be a spoiler, but from the battle report we do not yet know that thing is six shots with that stat - we only know the large blast - this is on page 64 of the WD.
The actual text is " ...able to deliver a s7 ap2 Large Blast or six separate shots"

Wishful thinking might suggest the six shots S7AP2, but the text does not confirm it.

If there is a separate confirmation - please quote it directly, which would be awesome.

Otherwise, we are potentially spreading mis-information - which is then repeated again and again.

Likewise, I saw nothing in the battle report that says the exocrine is 24" range - so whats the verified source for that?

I am not saying it might not be in there somewhere, but can we have a page number? Otherwise a lot of debate is happening off of a non-confirmed source.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Jaws only has a 24" range, as do grav cannons - those never work do they? Oh wait....

Neither of those things are touted as "living artillery" though, are they?

 brassangel wrote:
You know there are rifles out there that can out-range a cannon, right? It's still artillery, just on something that doesn't function like a Basilisk.

Doesn't need to function like a Basilisk. A 36" range would've been perfect.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Jaws only has a 24" range, as do grav cannons - those never work do they? Oh wait....

Neither of those things are touted as "living artillery" though, are they?

 brassangel wrote:
You know there are rifles out there that can out-range a cannon, right? It's still artillery, just on something that doesn't function like a Basilisk.

Doesn't need to function like a Basilisk. A 36" range would've been perfect.

demolisher cannons are only 24

I know what a Demolisher cannon is. What's your point?

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I'm personally still pumped up for this codex - nothing from this batrep has dampened my spirits. As to the 24" range on the exocrine -- that was listed by terrorfex on warpshadow and could be wrong. But, even if it's right, advancing to midfield will allow it to slag necessary enemy backfield units, so I'm really ok with it.

Jaws only has a 24" range, as do grav cannons - those never work do they? Oh wait....

Also it's 15 minutes early but happy new year, east coast USA!

This is the same kind of whineing that was present about a lot of units in the Necron Codex, including the Anniliation Barge. I mean, it only has 24 range! We saw how that turned out.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Jaws only has a 24" range, as do grav cannons - those never work do they? Oh wait....

Neither of those things are touted as "living artillery" though, are they?

So? I don't give a crap what it's called as long as it kills stuff.

It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I know what a Demolisher cannon is. What's your point?

What I mean is I don't think that that a 24 inch range discounts something being call "artillery" (case in point demolisher cannons) so I don't think the use of term "living artillery" for a large blast with a 24 inch range in all together unfitting.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.

Yeah, just like how everyone was mad at how much the Wave Serpent costed, it was still useless after the update! Don't forget how quickly the Wraithknight would die, with only it's 3+ save! Such a useless MC! I needed a 2+ to survive!

Ugh, double post.

 Sasori wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.

Yeah, just like how everyone was mad at how much the Wave Serpent costed, it was still useless after the update! Don't forget how quickly the Wraithknight would die, with only it's 3+ save! Such a useless MC! I needed a 2+ to survive.

"Based off of what we know" is a modifier that is assumed in a thread about rumors, and thus I don't have to state it.

Try again, Bragg.

Can we create another thread "I heard from an unverified source that the weapon might be shorter than we had been lead to believe and I want to debate its usefulness with others when we really don't know yet" topic?

Back to rumors....

In page 64 of the wd, in the side bar is the comment
"Tyranid instinctive behavior is now more varied - and more potentially debilitating than ever - ... "

I think it had been confirmed that the gargoyles now have "hunt", but do we have any other info on just how ...."debilitating" some of these may be?

On page 26 it says "new instinctive behavior tables with multiple results for Lurk, Hunt and Feed"

this sounds....interesting....

If the couple it with a real advantage for being in synapse I'll be happy.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.

Yeah, just like how everyone was mad at how much the Wave Serpent costed, it was still useless after the update! Don't forget how quickly the Wraithknight would die, with only it's 3+ save! Such a useless MC! I needed a 2+ to survive.

"Based off of what we know" is a modifier that is assumed in a thread about rumors, and thus I don't have to state it.

Try again, Bragg.

You know what they say about assuming things. Just like people assumed with the Wraithknight, and the Waveserpent. It's the same thing you're doing right now.

The point is, it is completely silly to talk about how "it's going to only last a turn!" When you've gotten merely a (Possible!) glimpse of the entire codex. This is theorycrafting at it's worst, and has no basis in the reality of the game. It has also been shown to be faulty rumor thread, after rumor thread, once the actual codex hits the tabletop and results start coming in.

Then, you go on to post flamebait things like "Prepare to be mad" Quite constructive.

So, perhaps you should dial down your silly chicken-little theorycrafting, and maybe people can actually take you seriously.

 Sasori wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.

Yeah, just like how everyone was mad at how much the Wave Serpent costed, it was still useless after the update! Don't forget how quickly the Wraithknight would die, with only it's 3+ save! Such a useless MC! I needed a 2+ to survive.

"Based off of what we know" is a modifier that is assumed in a thread about rumors, and thus I don't have to state it.

Try again, Bragg.

You know what they say about assuming things. Just like people assumed with the Wraithknight, and the Waveserpent. It's the same thing you're doing right now.

The point is, it is completely silly to talk about how "it's going to only last a turn!" When you've gotten merely a (Possible!) glimpse of the entire codex. This is theorycrafting at it's worst, and has no basis in the reality of the game. It has also been shown to be faulty rumor thread, after rumor thread, once the actual codex hits the tabletop and results start coming in.

Then, you go on to post flamebait things like "Prepare to be mad" Quite constructive.

So, perhaps you should dial down your silly chicken-little theorycrafting, and maybe people can actually take you seriously.

It's not silly at all to post our reactions to the information we're given when its given to us. This is a discussion forum after all. That might bother you, but, unless I'm breaking a rule I don't really care.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.

Yeah, just like how everyone was mad at how much the Wave Serpent costed, it was still useless after the update! Don't forget how quickly the Wraithknight would die, with only it's 3+ save! Such a useless MC! I needed a 2+ to survive.

"Based off of what we know" is a modifier that is assumed in a thread about rumors, and thus I don't have to state it.

Try again, Bragg.

You know what they say about assuming things. Just like people assumed with the Wraithknight, and the Waveserpent. It's the same thing you're doing right now.

The point is, it is completely silly to talk about how "it's going to only last a turn!" When you've gotten merely a (Possible!) glimpse of the entire codex. This is theorycrafting at it's worst, and has no basis in the reality of the game. It has also been shown to be faulty rumor thread, after rumor thread, once the actual codex hits the tabletop and results start coming in.

Then, you go on to post flamebait things like "Prepare to be mad" Quite constructive.

So, perhaps you should dial down your silly chicken-little theorycrafting, and maybe people can actually take you seriously.

It's not silly at all to post our reactions to the information we're given when its given to us. This is a discussion forum after all. That might bother you, but, unless I'm breaking a rule I don't really care.

You're welcome to post your reactions, but don't expect such silly hyperbole to go without being criticized, and challenged. It' also not much of discussion, when all you are doing is posting your knee-jerk exaggerations. It's simply noise.

Feel free to challenge my opinions. I welcome it.

If all you're going to do is complain about the existence of the opinions rather than explain why you think they're incorrect, though, then let me know so I can just ignore you, since you're not offering anything conducive to a discussion.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Feel free to challenge my opinions. I welcome it.

If all you're going to do is complain about the existence of the opinions rather than explain why you think they're incorrect, though, then let me know so I can just ignore you, since you're not offering anything conducive to discussion.

You might want to try a better avenue of discussion then if your thoughts on the matter aren't that worthwhile for others to discuss.

If they aren't that worthwhile then they wouldn't respond to them with their counter-arguments.

Considering people have done so, obviously they see something to discuss.

The people who don't feel that the topic I'm bringing up is worth discussing, have the freedom to not address it.

The question's going to be how viable Exocrines are versus Carnifexes for the Heavy Support slots. If the rumour of a 24" range is true, I don't see myself using one of those to fill a HS slot over a more versatile 'Fex brood. Maybe one slot. Sometimes. Perhaps.

That said, if the Haruspex does indeed fall into the Elite slot then it opens up the debate of whether they're worth taking over Hive Guard or Zoanthropes. Also not forgetting that the new dataslate may indeed make Lictors viable again, who also occupy elite slots.

It'd be nice to finally have a decision to make when building a competitive list again.

As for semi-competitive lists, if Broodlords (and the aforementioned dataslate) make Genestealers semi-viable again then i'll never field another small gribbly in friendly play. I'm all about the big and scary, so a couple of 'Stealer broods led by Broodlords, plus a plethora of MC's will make the hobby crazy fun for me. Exciting times.

I agree with that. I think I'd be more inclined to pick the carnifex brood as well. That price drop is just too sexy.

Still worried about genestealers. I just don't see them being viable without a first-turn assault mechanic, which they almost certainly won't be getting imo.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Feel free to challenge my opinions. I welcome it.

If all you're going to do is complain about the existence of the opinions rather than explain why you think they're incorrect, though, then let me know so I can just ignore you, since you're not offering anything conducive to discussion.

I have explained it, multiple times. You have just ignored it, and complained about my opinion. Which is not conducive to discussion either.

Trying to evaluate a single unit in a vacuum, without the rest of the picture is mostly a futile effort. It has shown to be erroneous over and over again. I've given you several examples, with things like the Riptide, The Wraith Knight and the Wave Serpent. These were all panned before they started to hit the tabletop, and full evaluation was fairly given. While posting you think it's bad, is fine, but posting really silly things like "It's going to die before it does anything" has no bearing on the reality of the game.

I've also demonstrated that 24' range is not an issue. 24 was likewise, panned when the Necrons were first released. It was quickly shown that it is not an issue.

All of this happens when you take into account the actual big picture, not just one unit in a vacuum vs an entire army.

6th Edition codexes have shown us several times over, that you really need to look at the entire army, to see how well it will function. This cycle of people whining how everything is under-powered and bad, until the codex release has been repeated over and over.

Multiple MCs, Psychic Powers, Biomorphs, all of these things can dramatically shift and alter how the army performs. The Exocrine on it's own, is not on the same level as the riptide, albeit it is a bit cheaper. It however, is still a very good shooting monstrous creature. There really isn't anything that favorably compares to how much fire power that thing can put out, at it's points level, besides the Riptide.

Your input is noted, sir.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I agree with that. I think I'd be more inclined to pick the carnifex brood as well. That price drop is just too sexy.

Still worried about genestealers. I just don't see them being viable without a first-turn assault mechanic, which they almost certainly won't be getting imo.

I remain hopeful that the dataslate for Lictor/Stealer shenanigans will make them at least semi-viable, although I think you're absolutely right, I don't see them getting a first turn assault mechanic. It'd just be nice to see my Lictors and Stealers back on the table without knowing they'll get shot to hell by small arms fire before even making it into assault. One can dream!

I wish it didn't take "DLC" to make the units in my game work. If the unit doesn't work in the basic codex, they're doing something wrong. grrr grumble grumble
Are those 4chan links a few pages back not working for anyone else? Was at work when I saw them, so I couldn't read them when they were working.

4chan links always have a very limited shelf life.

Well, according to the same types of knee-jerk whiners in old news and rumour threads, Riptides were garbage, Tesla Destructors on Scythes and ABarges arent' that good, the whole Eldar codex is a steaming pile of crap, etc. Someone has to be that guy who immortalises himself by criticising the units which future tournament players will spam into their lists as much as possible.

According to the rumours 170 points buys a slower Riptide without an invulnerable save. It'll come at a 15 point discount, but is actually more deadly in the multiple shots mode. You can get a cover save for it all game so the invulnerable save isn't really an issue against standard armies. For an army that isn't solely specialised on shooting that sounds extremely good. As far as the range goes I think it's a good way to balance it and make it fit the generic Nid theme a bit better -- It will advance with the rest of the guys instead of sit at the deployment zone all game.

I do agree though that the model looks like a giant Biovore, and I have a hard time imagining that gun firing 6 shots like a machinegun, or in close ranges at all. To me the rules aren't a problem but the model doesn't seem to fit the rules all that well. They could have made the Tyrannofex a more close range assault fire beast and let the Exocrine take over the long range shooting.

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Just for the record, the mail order Hormagaunt and Termagant broods are 20 models each, as stated in the first post for some weeks.

Which makes a price drop if that price list is correct.

It is just a temporary token of love to retailers, so they can't sell the Tyranid standard boxes GW forces them to stock, at the one time they could sell them.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Just for the record, the mail order Hormagaunt and Termagant broods are 20 models each, as stated in the first post for some weeks.

Which makes a price drop if that price list is correct.

It is just a temporary token of love to retailers, so they can't sell the Tyranid standard boxes GW forces them to stock, at the one time they could sell them.

Yes indeed, a price drop for termagants and Carnifexes, plus a significant effective price drop for warriors (and tyrant guard) if you use boneswords and lashwhips does have to be a bad thing. Because it's GW.

We're in a (minor) tourney whch continuts every saturday thru the spring from the 11th, so we will have one week to play the old codex (GW rules), then the new from then in. So I'm hoping we'll get some good assessments to temper our own (as opposed to gratuitous panicking about rumours), as that will be 7 days to suss out, buy, build and paint the new models.