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 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
Oh has the point cost for the bio-artifacts been posted?
PE-granting claws = 15, the poisoned gun 25 and others are about 40. That's too much for the ymgarl one I feel ....

The claws are 10. Reaper is 45.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
To me it looks like we are going to be getting alot of Starship Toopers like senarios, at least with the Swarm Armies.
Hundreds of bug charging across the field Fearlessly as I throw either buckes of bolter shot at them [or flashlights] hoping that I kill enough before they get into Melee. Then me Praying that the bug roll bad and me good rolling good. Then the Big Bugs showing up to finish me off.

God I hope that works out that way, once in a while... because I just spent $400USD starting 'Nid with precisely that imagine in mind.

My local playerbase is very much not meta though. My wife plays mass Orks, another friend plays Chaos just for the love of it, and without their sole "great" options. Meanwhile, at the club we have two other LONG time 'Nid players, a few C:SM/Space Wolves, and that is about it. Only one player shows up trying to build flavor-of-the-month abuse lists (guy went from owning zero C:SM bikes to an army of them in a weekend when he decided that would be the most abusive list he could run). As such, i'm sure many "fun" games will be had... and thank God for it, because if I was playing with a hope of serious, high-level competitiveness right now, i'd be crapping the bed.

Well it has been my experiance in 6th so far. I see no reason why it will not change much. It only takes 2-3 Genestealers to wreck a Tactical Squad.

 ductvader wrote:

Did we reach a conclusion about Shadow and Synapse range always being equivalent?

Shadow specifically says 12" and nothing anywhere that I can see modifies it or associates it with Synapse.

 ductvader wrote:

davethepak wrote:
Regardless, the nid relics do not even come close the the bar set by recent books.

Would you want to be responsible for giving something like the Shield Eternal or the Mantle of the Laughing God to a Hive Tyrant?

People need to consider the normal damage output and survivability of what these relics are going on, before making such statements. A Tyrant, or even a prime is much more than some chapter master or autarch.

Not true at all..Just because the hive tyrant is a MC doesn't mean it's more survivable or has more damage output. If you take Iron hands you got a guy with a 2+/3++, S8, T5, W4, A4 who also has EW, IWND and probably FNP. What does the tyrant have that is MORE survivable? 1 pt of toughness? oooh scary!

Come on, these artifacts are a joke and toughness means little when you got plasma, grav and lascannons shooting you.

This book looks to be a fairly significant downgrade which is pretty amazing considering the quality of the last book

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
Oh has the point cost for the bio-artifacts been posted?
PE-granting claws = 15, the poisoned gun 25 and others are about 40. That's too much for the ymgarl one I feel ....

Did we reach a conclusion about Shadow and Synapse range always being equivalent?

Ymgarl one? I feel that one is made for a prime and well costed for him.

The prime went up a fair bit (45 points!)

I took that into account...this guy is mean, especially since you can throw him in the middle of just about any unit...termagants, warriors, stealers, carnifexes, tyrants.

The prime has always been a favorite and a reliable one at that for getting into combat with whatever you need to kill. Now give him rending claws and regeneration, he becomes the big nasty. Much more reliable than a superflyrant.

Except that he basically lost half of his attacks due to lack of rerolls..

 Kirasu wrote:
Except that he basically lost half of his attacks due to lack of rerolls..

Half is exaggerating quite a bit, if anything, he loses something like 1.1 hits.

 ductvader wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Except that he basically lost half of his attacks due to lack of rerolls..

Half is exaggerating quite a bit, if anything, he loses something like 1.1 hits.

Nice.

Just saw this latest collection on the GW website for the bargain price of $1,859.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Just saw this latest collection on the GW website for the bargain price of $1,859.

''

Well, to be fair...that is a lot of monsters.

Still, who would fork out nearly 2k in one go? 0_o

Hmm hold on, does that even add up to 2k? Something doesn't look right.

Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.

Hmm they put in the red terror, so... maybe new rules for it?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Just saw this latest collection on the GW website for the bargain price of $1,859.

''

Well, to be fair...that is a lot of monsters.

Still, who would fork out nearly 2k in one go? 0_o

Hmm hold on, does that even add up to 2k? Something doesn't look right.

Last week I just witnessed someone order and pay for the Astartes Ultra. ($11,500.00)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rotary wrote:
Hmm they put in the red terror, so... maybe new rules for it?

Rumor is...yes. In all the rules but not in name.

Shingen wrote:
Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.

They give Shrouded to friendly Models (so Units) within 6".

 Rotary wrote:
Hmm they put in the red terror, so... maybe new rules for it?

Tyranid prime stats, If at least 4 attacks hit it has a chance to swallow a bulky or smaller model . That model only gets an invulnerable save or gets removed from play.

skarsol wrote:

Shingen wrote:
Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.

They give Shrouded to friendly Models (so Units) within 6".

Fantastic! I built mine from chaos spawn. All tentacles and hormagaunt heads...I don't like the current r@pethrope.

Shingen wrote:
Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.

Watch out though, I think the snap-shots only was a special rule on the Deathleaper, not the "regular" lictors. Will check

Still it's going to help massively.

ductvader wrote:

davethepak wrote:
Regardless, the nid relics do not even come close the the bar set by recent books.

Would you want to be responsible for giving something like the Shield Eternal or the Mantle of the Laughing God to a Hive Tyrant?

People need to consider the normal damage output and survivability of what these relics are going on, before making such statements. A Tyrant, or even a prime is much more than some chapter master or autarch.

You don't....math...do you?

T5 W4 2+Sv, 3++ EW chapter master, with lets say a thunder hammer (because the double relic thing still isn't hammered out)
T6 W4 3+SV, No++ No EW Tyrant,

Against bolters they are roughly equally survivable, with the extra toughness balancing the improved save of the chapter master.
Against AP3, the chapter master wins, SIX TIMES OVER
Against AP2 or better, the chapter master wins, THREE TIMES OVER
Against poison attacks, the chapter master wins, TWICE OVER
The chapter master is an independent character, so can hide in units whereas the tyrant can only hide in tyrant guard (which have a poor wound:stayingpower:cost ratio compared to marine stuff)
In melee, the chapter master wins, since his improved survivabilty will balance off swinging last, and his higher strength (8, vs the tyrant's 6) means he will be killing more stuff typically.
Buff wise, the tyrant will win out, since ML2 with tyranid powers is probably slightly better than making bikes scoring and a chapter tactic.

Honestly, I don't think a 3++ invul EW relic would really have been out of line in 6th edition on a hive tyrant. Monstrous creature survivabiltiy is ABYSMAL.

kirsanth wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
even a prime is much more than some chapter master or autarch.

Just going to repeat this for sake of hilarity.

Yup

Had a first short look at the Codex.
Doom, Spores, Parasite and even Ymgarl Genestealers are gone. Every trace of Cruddace's ideas from last Codex erased. Quite depressing.
Worst Unitcide since WItch Hunters.
BRB powers are gone, seems you now have to roll for psychic powers instead of buying them.
Still looking for anything that got better, but haven't found it yet. Except of the "buy more models" of course.

So Genestealers need to be within synapse range now? And there hasn't been much on tyrant guard, have they changed at all??

frankencowx wrote:
So Genestealers need to be within synapse range now? And there hasn't been much on tyrant guard, have they changed at all??

They don't have IB so no. Tyrant guards are mostly unchanged, except the ability to take crushing claws ,for AP2 attacks

No IB means no roll. Brood telepathy did nothing.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Had a first short look at the Codex.
Doom, Spores, Parasite and even Ymgarl Genestealers are gone. Every trace of Cruddace's ideas from last Codex erased. Quite depressing.
Worst Unitcide since WItch Hunters.
BRB powers are gone, seems you now have to roll for psychic powers instead of buying them.
Still looking for anything that got better, but haven't found it yet. Except of the "buy more models" of course.

thisisgreatnews.jpg

All of this seems to be pretty gak. Cruddace might not be able to write for gak, but the idea's introduced were all exciting and cool, and with some work could have really worked well (some of which did!), but no, the only option is to completely remove them in the hope that people will indeed buy more models. The curse of random psychic powers (Warhammer Fantasy Battles 40,000 edition) is also placed unto the Tyranids, gracing them with the curse of being unable to tell if your gonna get the useful, well written power or the garbage one shoved in their due to laziness.

 Rotary wrote:
Hmm they put in the red terror, so... maybe new rules for it?

It's an 85 point upgrade to a singe Ravener squad. +1 WS, S, T, A, Sv. +2 LD. Pincer Tail attack and Swallow Whole special rule.

This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates. I like those as a way to add stuff down the road but as kind of 1st day DLC, this is a new level of offensive. Truth be told, the more blatant cash grabs they become, the more pdfs will be downloaded instead of bought.

Any news on the fluff in this book?

It certainly looks like we have escaped a Newcron style "there are hundreds of Hive Minds" situation at least.

(sigh) my tyranids have sat on my shelf since the start of 5th edition. I guess there they shall remain for another codex cycle. Sadly, I can't claim the sky is falling since I think it fell already.

(Really though, 4+ save on harpy/crone!? Its not like the quad gun is the most prevalent skyfire weapon in the game or anything; geeze that is boneheaded)

Plumbumbarum wrote:
This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates

"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard

Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.

Give it a week.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

Shingen wrote:
Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.

Watch out though, I think the snap-shots only was a special rule on the Deathleaper, not the "regular" lictors. Will check

It's only on Deathleaper, and he can't join squads.