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The HS section is stacked with usable stuff, and I suppose the Elites won't be a problem. It's just a shame the fast attack flopped bigtime. We were just 1 'Serpent Shield' special rule away from having some new Tyranid overlords...

Great, Hive guard now BS3...

When Gav Thorpe originally nerfed the Dark Elf Cold Ones from M8 to M7, his reasoning (printed in WD) was that the miniatures looked slow. I suppose Cruddy or someone else noted that the Hive Guard have very small or non-existent eyes so how could they possibly shoot straight?

 easysauce wrote:
yeah, I think all the nay saysers are really under estimateing how good the pts reduction is for nids...

hormagaunts are AWESOME... fleet AND +3 inched to their run? stock? yes please....

cheap carnifexes, lots of fast troops...

all I hear is complainigng about getting across the board though... I mean if my orks can get across on foot, Im sure your fleeted + 3 in hormies and other flyers/beats can as well...

I might actually pick up nids again at some point.

Yeah, seeing as pretty much everything can purchase/has Fleet this army is going to be alot faster than expected.

NamelessBard wrote:
Great, Hive guard now BS3...

AND they went up 5 points!

WOO!

NamelessBard wrote:
Great, Hive guard now BS3...

You wouldn't want Tyranid shooting units that are dedicated to shooting and only to shooting and do nothing but shoot to actually be good at shooting, would you?

 Therion wrote:
The Mawloc has 6 T6 wounds for 140 points? That's really cheap. 23 points for a T6 wound with a 3+ AS is good no matter how you spin it.

It also appears Hive Tyrants still have their three upgrades available.

I'm thinking with Hive Commander available, you can do some serious damage with Mawlocs. 2-3 Deepstriking on turn 2 with up to 6 Strength 6 Ap2 large blasts, and a possible 18 T6 Sv 3+ MCs will really wreck a gunline...

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

skarsol wrote:

What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?

The big book says to choose, the old book says they stack...

I dont see anything in the melee sections or the army special rules that says they stack.

The old one had a FAQ say it, nothing in the book itself says it IIRC

So we may get an FAQ

 easysauce wrote:
yeah, I think all the nay saysers are really under estimateing how good the pts reduction is for nids...

hormagaunts are AWESOME... fleet AND +3 inched to their run? stock? yes please....

cheap carnifexes, lots of fast troops...

all I hear is complainigng about getting across the board though... I mean if my orks can get across on foot, Im sure your fleeted + 3 in hormies and other flyers/beats can as well...

I might actually pick up nids again at some point.

Horm: 3 WS LD6 6+ for 5. Add Furious Charge for 2, Poison for 3.
Daemonette: 5 WS Ld 7 5++, rending for 9.

Not sure which comes out better.

 Gloomfang wrote:
There is at least 2-3 builds that look promising. But they don’t feel “Niddy”, they feel like some other army.

Yes. I also get a very bland vibe from what I've read so far.

 Gloomfang wrote:
The term Space Skaven has come up more than once. And I don’t know how they can fix that.

Except Skaven have ability to shoot into combat afaik (do they?). That would be great for nids, fluffy too as they would eat the corpses anyway later but no, Hive Tyrant couldn't do it to his dear gants.

Oh my! Five years of Spanish class is suddenly incredibly useful! No special rules, but this clears up a lot. WE AREN"T SCREWED GUYS, ITS GONNA BE OK!

Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper. And Buiovores are now ridiculously good. So are Exocrines. Honestly I may not even need a Crone, because holy crap! I'm psyched. Yesterday I was on the verge of tears, but this is how I want my Nids. We don't need to rely on Psykers. Screw Rune Priests, and Jaws. I'm thinking base troops is now 2x30 gants, 2 Tervigons, and 2x20 Hormagants. One Crone, one Flyrant, and three Venomthropes with a Prime. Add Biovores, Gargoyles, Exocrines, Hive Guard, Zoeys, Haruspex, Trygons, Mawlocs and Carnifex to taste, because hot damn.

True, people are bitter for a reason. Warriors suck. So do Rippers, and maybe Stealers (the Horror helps them a lot...), and lots of units (FOUR) disappeared. And yes, we won't take the Bio-artifacts. True, the Warlord table blows. But really, strategic is by far the best in the gam anyways... We've lost what we wanted, but somehow we are coming out on top. I pick my book up Saturday, but kiss the meta goodbye. Nids are going to be good, I honestly think they'll be Daemon level if you do it right.

Hive Tyrant
Hive Tyrant

30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
Tervigon
Tervigon

Harpy

Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc

1750


Behold a terrible list! On one hand, it has 38 T6 wounds, 5 T5 and 120 T3. On the other, it has almost no shooting and autoloses to anything with flyers or the means to kill 4 synapse creatures.

...
I'm gonna go cry now.

NamelessBard wrote:
Great, Hive guard now BS3...

They are really pushing for those new models to sell.

 jifel wrote:
Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper.

Better than 5++? Maybe in a world where Ignore Invlun replaces Ignore Cover.

(Just to be precise, they give Shrouded to units in 6", not Stealth)

^ So dont use that list...?

frankencowx wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
Great, Hive guard now BS3...

They are really pushing for those new models to sell.

Silver lining guys! They'll be desperately snap shooting at flyers all game anyway so the BS doesn't matter.

My Spanish is pretty poor but is there anything about the prime being attached to Shrikes e.g. can you give him wings? Are they are option in the wargear / upgrades / biomorphs sections?

3x Carnifex with 2x Talons, Toxin Sacs, Bioplasma (if it can still take it) and a prime with a lashwhip sounds like fun. Especially with frag spines, you might actually be able to kill something...!

 jifel wrote:
Oh my! Five years of Spanish class is suddenly incredibly useful! No special rules, but this clears up a lot. WE AREN"T SCREWED GUYS, ITS GONNA BE OK!

Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper. And Buiovores are now ridiculously good. So are Exocrines. Honestly I may not even need a Crone, because holy crap! I'm psyched. Yesterday I was on the verge of tears, but this is how I want my Nids. We don't need to rely on Psykers. Screw Rune Priests, and Jaws. I'm thinking base troops is now 2x30 gants, 2 Tervigons, and 2x20 Hormagants. One Crone, one Flyrant, and three Venomthropes with a Prime. Add Biovores, Gargoyles, Exocrines, Hive Guard, Zoeys, Haruspex, Trygons, Mawlocs and Carnifex to taste, because hot damn.

True, people are bitter for a reason. Warriors suck. So do Rippers, and maybe Stealers (the Horror helps them a lot...), and lots of units (FOUR) disappeared. And yes, we won't take the Bio-artifacts. True, the Warlord table blows. But really, strategic is by far the best in the gam anyways... We've lost what we wanted, but somehow we are coming out on top. I pick my book up Saturday, but kiss the meta goodbye. Nids are going to be good, I honestly think they'll be Daemon level if you do it right.

It's a shame there's an army with S8 AP2 ignores cover large blasts, which utterly laugh at venomthropes, as otherwise I'd agree. As it is though, there's too much ignores cover for it to be useful and people will just kill it immediately still as it can't join units.

skarsol wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper.

Better than 5++? Maybe in a world where Ignore Invlun replaces Ignore Cover.

(Just to be precise, they give Shrouded to units in 6", not Stealth)

Shrouded is perfect based on the fact a lot of the ground troops have fleet so getting through cover should be a breeze (assuming the venoms can keep up but they should be running every turn anyway).

Venoms and Carnifex's in a combat would be amusing, Carnifex's would actually be able to hit first for once.

I seriously think my flying MC list is dead in the new codex, I am going back to ground troops all the way...

 jifel wrote:
Oh my! Five years of Spanish class is suddenly incredibly useful! No special rules, but this clears up a lot. WE AREN"T SCREWED GUYS, ITS GONNA BE OK!

Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper. And Buiovores are now ridiculously good. So are Exocrines. Honestly I may not even need a Crone, because holy crap! I'm psyched. Yesterday I was on the verge of tears, but this is how I want my Nids. We don't need to rely on Psykers. Screw Rune Priests, and Jaws. I'm thinking base troops is now 2x30 gants, 2 Tervigons, and 2x20 Hormagants. One Crone, one Flyrant, and three Venomthropes with a Prime. Add Biovores, Gargoyles, Exocrines, Hive Guard, Zoeys, Haruspex, Trygons, Mawlocs and Carnifex to taste, because hot damn.

True, people are bitter for a reason. Warriors suck. So do Rippers, and maybe Stealers (the Horror helps them a lot...), and lots of units (FOUR) disappeared. And yes, we won't take the Bio-artifacts. True, the Warlord table blows. But really, strategic is by far the best in the gam anyways... We've lost what we wanted, but somehow we are coming out on top. I pick my book up Saturday, but kiss the meta goodbye. Nids are going to be good, I honestly think they'll be Daemon level if you do it right.

Please mind my ignorance. All I have been reading is doom and gloom. Tired of reading all the Chicken Littles out there. This is a breath of fresh air. How have Venomthropes became good? Do they confer stealth to others in a bubble? I just thought they got it themselves.

Shingen wrote:
My Spanish is pretty poor but is there anything about the prime being attached to Shrikes e.g. can you give him wings? Are they are option in the wargear / upgrades / biomorphs sections?

3x Carnifex with 2x Talons, Toxin Sacs, Bioplasma (if it can still take it) and a prime with a lashwhip sounds like fun. Especially with frag spines, you might actually be able to kill something...!

The Prime's WS and BS are shared with Warriors and Shrikes it joined, which is odd since there's no way to give it wings.
Bio-plasma is the same, but lashwhips don't slow enemies down so I don't know what your plan is

Eyjio wrote:
Hive Tyrant
Hive Tyrant

30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
Tervigon
Tervigon

Harpy

Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc

1750


Behold a terrible list! On one hand, it has 38 T6 wounds, 5 T5 and 120 T3. On the other, it has almost no shooting and autoloses to anything with flyers or the means to kill 4 synapse creatures.

...
I'm gonna go cry now.

Wow, hope you play against my Dark Eldar, I will be laughing the entire game. How many Gants will die Turn 1 when both Tervigons die.

So the crone's tentaclids are 1 use only, but how many does she carry?

Fexes with 2x ST, Adrenal Glands and Frag Spines (140pt/each I think) will move with Fleet, land D3 S6 Hammer of Wrath hits each, then do five S10 AP2 attacks each just before any power fists strike.

Throw in some Catalyst, a Prime and/or Venomthropes and that could be a winner.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:

Please mind my ignorance. All I have been reading is doom and gloom. Tired of reading all the Chicken Littles out there. This is a breath of fresh air. How have Venomthropes became good? Do they confer stealth to others in a bubble? I just thought they got it themselves.

They used to grant a bubble of 5+ cover save to units within 6". That has now been changed to Shrouded, which instead adds 2 to cover saves. So any units near a Venomthrope and in 4+ or 5+ terrain cover now go to 2+ or 3+ cover.

Venomthropes also got 10pts cheaper too.

 Iechine wrote:
So the crone's tentaclids are 1 use only, but how many does she carry?

Looks to be "Cuatro" so, 4.

 Iechine wrote:
So the crone's tentaclids are 1 use only, but how many does she carry?

4

Hive Tyrant (wings)
Tervigon

30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
Tervigon

30 Gargoyles
30 Gargoyles
30 Gargoyles

1850

Man, that's a lot of models. Still bad, but I wanted to look at the extreme ends of the codex, whilst still being technically usable. That's 243 models all told and more that will spawn. Still bad but wow, you can get a lot of guys in. Synapse will be the real stickler in this dex, with only 2 HQs, more expensive Tervigons and a lot of the fast moving stuff removed, it'll be hard to fit a decent amount in. I dunno, this just feels weak next to the old builds. I suspect an ideal build will have 4-6 dakkafexes in.

Eyjio wrote:
So, here's some fun maths about Mawlocs. Let's assume that it's managed to hit 6 guardsmen, who are looking to get splatted.

Wanna know the chance to mishap? 1-P(killing everything in 2 hits). P(killing a thing in 2 hits) is 29/36 (only snake eyes fails), so for 6, the chance at least ONE will live and cause a mishap is 1 - (29/36)^6. Or, in other words, about 72%. Yep, 72% chance to mishap assuming that your DS wasn't doing so anyway.

It turns out that the best defence against Mawlocs is to clump everything up, so that it almost always mishaps. Sure feels narrative in here.

Your math is way off. Just wanted to clear this up before someone latched on to it.

Odds of any one guardsmen (or any model with toughness less than 5 and no inv. save) surviving twice is 1/36, so P = 35/36 to kill, not 29/36.

So the odds that any one model would survive is 1-P^n

For 6 models, it's about 16%. Not the end of the world, but not the sure-fire trick it seems to be at first glance. Best defense against a Mawloc really is to bunch up, apparently.

Hitting 4 models is 11%, 8 models is 20%.

Within reason you're going to be looking at a 10-20% chance of mishapping any time you try to deep strike into an enemy unit, so be aware.

Davor wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Oh my! Five years of Spanish class is suddenly incredibly useful! No special rules, but this clears up a lot. WE AREN"T SCREWED GUYS, ITS GONNA BE OK!

Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper. And Buiovores are now ridiculously good. So are Exocrines. Honestly I may not even need a Crone, because holy crap! I'm psyched. Yesterday I was on the verge of tears, but this is how I want my Nids. We don't need to rely on Psykers. Screw Rune Priests, and Jaws. I'm thinking base troops is now 2x30 gants, 2 Tervigons, and 2x20 Hormagants. One Crone, one Flyrant, and three Venomthropes with a Prime. Add Biovores, Gargoyles, Exocrines, Hive Guard, Zoeys, Haruspex, Trygons, Mawlocs and Carnifex to taste, because hot damn.

True, people are bitter for a reason. Warriors suck. So do Rippers, and maybe Stealers (the Horror helps them a lot...), and lots of units (FOUR) disappeared. And yes, we won't take the Bio-artifacts. True, the Warlord table blows. But really, strategic is by far the best in the gam anyways... We've lost what we wanted, but somehow we are coming out on top. I pick my book up Saturday, but kiss the meta goodbye. Nids are going to be good, I honestly think they'll be Daemon level if you do it right.

Please mind my ignorance. All I have been reading is doom and gloom. Tired of reading all the Chicken Littles out there. This is a breath of fresh air. How have Venomthropes became good? Do they confer stealth to others in a bubble? I just thought they got it themselves.

Well, bear in mind I don't have the codex, but Venoms are now 1-3 but 10 points cheaper. That's a boost right away. Add to that, they now give shrouded in a 6" radius, according to the rumors. (I assume it's true, because the codex is in peoples hands clearly). So, shrouded is a 5+ cover, but also grants +2 to existing cover. So, throw Gargoyles in front. They cover most MCs, who have a 5++ cover, +2 from shrouded. That's a 3++ cover on anything near the Venoms, who can spread out, including the Venoms. Or go through terrain (with fleet and MtC all over, no big deal) and get that same 3++. If it's a ruin or fortification, then that's now a 2++ cover save. Naturally though, they'll shoot our Venomthropes. Attach a prime for added wounds and put MCs in the way, the new Exocrine/Haruspex, Tyrannos, and Tervigons all would block LoS to the Venomthropes. You now have a mini star with synapese, shadows, and spare wounds, for a cheap cost. I ran one in 5th and loved it, this is literally three times better than what it could do then. This isn't the codex we wanted, but it can be the codex we need.

Is there any reason to run Ravengers over Shrikes in this edition?

They don't have synapse, can't take biomorphs and have a worse stat line. All for the Beast over Flying.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

Shingen wrote:
My Spanish is pretty poor but is there anything about the prime being attached to Shrikes e.g. can you give him wings? Are they are option in the wargear / upgrades / biomorphs sections?

3x Carnifex with 2x Talons, Toxin Sacs, Bioplasma (if it can still take it) and a prime with a lashwhip sounds like fun. Especially with frag spines, you might actually be able to kill something...!

The Prime's WS and BS are shared with Warriors and Shrikes it joined, which is odd since there's no way to give it wings.
Bio-plasma is the same, but lashwhips don't slow enemies down so I don't know what your plan is

Lash Whips dont lower Initiative anymore?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
Great, Hive guard now BS3...

You wouldn't want Tyranid shooting units that are dedicated to shooting and only to shooting and do nothing but shoot to actually be good at shooting, would you?

ork dedicated shooting units are also bs 3,

thats how it works in CC oriented armies,

your weakness, ie shooting, even on its best troops, works out to about average,

your WS, I, toughness, speed, ect are all higher throughout the army because its a CC army.