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Anyone else notice that we can nowrecreate the part of the lyanden invasion when eight carnifexes were sent to kill the avatar in a 1500 game?
AWESOME!

Therion wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Fortunately, I only have 2 Tervigons. And I don't think they're useless now, they just aren't no-brainers.

They're still absolutely the best Troops unit in the entire game.

I'm sorry, can you please explain?

To be fair DarknessEternal should have said "troops" as they do require 30 termagants for the privilege. I'd find the assertion debatable.

Tervigons are more of a liability now that they offer almost no force multiplication and cost an absurd amount of points.

 AesSedai wrote:
Not necessarily... faster movement with army wide AG, shrouded via venomthropes, more FNP. We had no answers before.

The same ammount of FNP actually:

The psychic core of many 6th edition lists was 2 Tervigons w/ 3 powers, 2 flyrants, and a 3 man Zoanthrope Squad. So assuming you wanted to roll 100% Biomancy...

A 3 man Zoanthrope squads went from having 6 rolls on the biomancy chart to a single roll on the Nid Chart.

A Tervigon went from having 3 rolls on the biomancy to a single roll on the Nid Chart

The flyrant has stayed the same with 2 rolls each

5th Ed Codex: 13 rolls on Biomancy: Nets you roughly 2 Endurances = 2 FNP
6th Ed Codex: 7 rolls on Nids: Nets you roughly 1 Catalyst = 2 FNP

However, this assumes that the psychic core stays the same. Given the dramatic changes to both Zoes (only able to cast 1 buff/debuff a turn/unit vs up to 3) and Tervigons, the core may very well change, resulting in less rolls on the Nid Chart.

 TyCorny wrote:
The last legit leak I've seen was the 3 biomorphs pages. is there a new leak somewhere in the past 40 pages that prung up in the past couple days?

If you have questions, I can answer them. Just about everything is available on the web now in some form.

run 4+ canifexes, cheap as they come, and as many guants as pts will allow, make sure everything is fleet.

grats, you now will wil 80%+ of your games...

seriously the horde tactic, + the MC spam is going to be hugely competitive...

its not BROKEN competitive as some people seem to be hoping for, but its huge...


not many armies can deal with 100's of gribblies as well as 4+ fexes, and 100 guants= 400 pts, 5 fexes is about ~ 650 still plenty of room for filler to your taste,

sry if pts for fexe are off, looked at the page a bit ago, i remeber 130 pts per, correct me if I aw wrong

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Tervigons are more of a liability now that they offer almost no force multiplication and cost an absurd amount of points.

I'm going to use one simply for the Dominion primaris. Not because it's any good, but because it's durable Synapse.
I mean - I'll try and roll for Catalyst but I don't expect to.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Tervigons are more of a liability now that they offer almost no force multiplication and cost an absurd amount of points.

I'm going to use one simply for the Dominion primaris. Not because it's any good, but because it's durable Synapse.
I mean - I'll try and roll for Catalyst but I don't expect to.

It's really not that durable though. Only if you park it way the hell back and try to do nothing but keep it alive. Then again, there's no point in doing anything BUT that with it now anyways. Definitely not worth having it try to push up the field... considering it's 12" explosion will devastate pretty much any termagant unit you wanted it to support anyways.

Dominion and defensive camping might be a use for a single Tervigon.

 easysauce wrote:
run 4+ canifexes, cheap as they come, and as many guants as pts will allow, make sure everything is fleet.

grats, you now will wil 80%+ of your games...

seriously the horde tactic, + the MC spam is going to be hugely competitive...

its not BROKEN competitive as some people seem to be hoping for, but its huge...


not many armies can deal with 100's of gribblies as well as 4+ fexes, and 100 guants= 400 pts, 5 fexes is about ~ 650 still plenty of room for filler to your taste,

sry if pts for fexe are off, looked at the page a bit ago, i remeber 130 pts per, correct me if I aw wrong

100 Fleet Termagants + 5 Fleet Carnifeci are 1375 points. And then you opponent just has to kill the small number of Synapse Creatures you have left room for in your list and watch your army collapse upon itself.

 streamdragon wrote:
Considering xttz had mentioned taking 2 on Fexes, I thought it was clear I was still talking about Fexes.

However, the judges will accept your answer of "extra attack with Crushing Claws". Of course, they'll also point out how sort of pointless Crushing Claws really are on Fexes, but they do still look cool at least.

For sure...I just hope Old One Eye kept his "Blood Talons" ability with his claws...I don't know if I've ever had a better moment than the time my One Eye Laid down the Law with Draigo with 10 S10 AP2 hits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Anyone else notice that we can nowrecreate the part of the lyanden invasion when eight carnifexes were sent to kill the avatar in a 1500 game?
AWESOME!

Tyranids know naught of honor.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Tervigons are more of a liability now that they offer almost no force multiplication and cost an absurd amount of points.

I'm going to use one simply for the Dominion primaris. Not because it's any good, but because it's durable Synapse.
I mean - I'll try and roll for Catalyst but I don't expect to.

Maybe that's why Dominion exists - so you can keep Termagants outside backlash range but within Synapse.

Currently the only decent use I can think of for a Tervigon is to have the Tyrant's Hive Commander ability Outflank it onto an enemy unit/objective.

I've heard the rumour that the haruspex can't take acid blood, but it seems it comes with is standard from the spanish scans. Can someone with the codex confirm please?

 ductvader wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Considering xttz had mentioned taking 2 on Fexes, I thought it was clear I was still talking about Fexes.

However, the judges will accept your answer of "extra attack with Crushing Claws". Of course, they'll also point out how sort of pointless Crushing Claws really are on Fexes, but they do still look cool at least.

For sure...I just hope Old One Eye kept his "Blood Talons" ability with his claws...I don't know if I've ever had a better moment than the time my One Eye Laid down the Law with Draigo with 10 S10 AP2 hits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Anyone else notice that we can nowrecreate the part of the lyanden invasion when eight carnifexes were sent to kill the avatar in a 1500 game?
AWESOME!

Tyranids know naught of honor.

I wanna see how many of them the avatar kills. This makes me want to continue my eldar from the single squad I have.

 AesSedai wrote:
I've heard the rumour that the haruspex can't take acid blood, but it seems it comes with is standard from the spanish scans. Can someone with the codex confirm please?

It comes with Acid Blood.

 Redemption wrote:

100 Fleet Termagants + 5 Fleet Carnifeci are 1375 points. And then you opponent just has to kill the small number of Synapse Creatures you have left room for in your list and watch your army collapse upon itself.

You don't even need Fleet for the gants, just buy more!

Comes with 28 T6 wounds, 4 psychic rolls and some Shrouded.

Main drawback is low number of synapse units, but you can always swap some gants for more.

New List: 1848 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant (195pts)
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Termagant Brood (160pts)
- 30x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
2. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 30x Termagant
3. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 30x Termagant
4. Termagant Brood (108pts)
- 27x Termagant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Zoanthrope (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope
2. Zoanthrope (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope
3. Venomthrope Brood (135pts)
- 3x Venomthrope


----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Carnifex Brood (405pts)
- 3x Carnifex
- 3x Adrenal Glands
2. Carnifex Brood (405pts)
- 3x Carnifex
- 3x Adrenal Glands

I don't get all the people saying they are going to try Warriors with this new release because their meta is all S7 no S8.

wtf does the new codex have to do with that? Has it freed your mind and allowed you to build new lists because there isn't a set monobuild yet?

Warriors are still just as bad as ever, if S8 blasts are non existant where you play you shoulda been done flooding Warriors by now :(

 ductvader wrote:

AdagiO wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
ummm, fexes can still fire thorax swarm and their primary weapon, you guys realise that right?
or am I derping?

Yeh but they miss out on a round of cluster spines. And the cluster spines are almost on par with whatever thorax swarm they took. And they always want to be firing the Rupture Cannon.

So its a serious nerf to the larvae, but the T-Fex will carry on going. Just no rounds of blasting everything at once really.

I still wont bother with rupture cannon, but the tfex might work like a frontline bunker firing thorax and acid templates....

Rupture cannon is a decently costed buy...I think the problem is that most people are fooled by its 48" range.

I personally onslaught dual tyrannos with cannons and blast/run away until i am in assault/template range.

Even if you're blasting S10 into a vehicle at point blank range, at least then you can assault the contents.

And the great part is that even with the cannon on, you can choose to fire your other two templates instead anyways.

Most sensible thing I've seen you say in this thread. Rupture Cannon is definitely a well costed buy, its what makes him work. This is how you should play TFex, he's a threat at every range, getting up close just helps get rid those cover saves =D



And to the guy compiling the list of nerfs / buffs, you should probably add mycetic spores in red, right next to Zoanthrope, Carnifex, and Termagants.

Tervigons are essentually useless. Just because its scoring does not make it useful. They no longer support loads of gaunts. They are now nearly useless as psker support and hurt gaunts more than ever. All with a price increase. Just not worth it anymore.

Tyranid psykers have been neautered with the loss of access to anything but the codex powers. "Still hoping that will be fixed with faq as we would be the only codex with no access and psykers"

I predict a large number of FMC builds being used, supported by large broods of mixed gaunts and cheap fex builds.

 xttz wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

100 Fleet Termagants + 5 Fleet Carnifeci are 1375 points. And then you opponent just has to kill the small number of Synapse Creatures you have left room for in your list and watch your army collapse upon itself.

You don't even need Fleet for the gants, just buy more!

New List: 1848 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant (195pts)
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Termagant Brood (160pts)
- 30x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
2. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 30x Termagant
3. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 30x Termagant
4. Termagant Brood (108pts)
- 27x Termagant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Zoanthrope (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope
2. Zoanthrope (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope
3. Venomthrope Brood (135pts)
- 3x Venomthrope


----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Carnifex Brood (405pts)
- 3x Carnifex
- 3x Adrenal Glands
2. Carnifex Brood (405pts)
- 3x Carnifex
- 3x Adrenal Glands

And if your opponent can kill a walking tyrant and 4 zoans, they can sit back and watch the rest of your army eat itself or run away without taking casualties.

From what I'm seeing and hearing, this seems to be a case of the writers simply looking at the codex and changing a few things without any real playtesting. Maybe two games against a lackadaisical opponent, then they were like "yup, this works, sell it."

Backlash wrote:
Tervigons are essentually useless. Just because its scoring does not make it useful. They no longer support loads of gaunts. They are now nearly useless as psker support and hurt gaunts more than ever. All with a price increase. Just not worth it anymore.

Tyranid psykers have been neautered with the loss of access to anything but the codex powers. "Still hoping that will be fixed with faq as we would be the only codex with no access and psykers"

I predict a large number of FMC builds being used, supported by large broods of mixed gaunts and cheap fex builds.

It's just not true. Tervigons were great before, now they're merely good. Lots of people might go down from 2 to 1, but they're well worth outflanking for instance, to sit on an objective - according to the rumours, the new Hive Commander doesn't add the reserve rolls bonus, but it allows you to outflank more troop units.

After all, without tervigons, the troops choice is hugely limited. Time to assemble more termagants I guess...

 SHUPPET wrote:
I don't get all the people saying they are going to try Warriors with this new release because their meta is all S7 no S8.

wtf does the new codex have to do with that? Has it freed your mind and allowed you to build new lists because there isn't a set monobuild yet?

Warriors are still just as bad as ever, if S8 blasts are non existant where you play you shoulda been done flooding Warriors by now :(

Tervigons are better than warriors in pretty much every way right now. In the next codex, it seems warriors close that gap a bit, through nerfs to the tervigon. Tyranids have gained options through everything good getting worse.

Was really stoked about the Venomthrope conferring Shrouded instead of a flat 5+. That's going to go a long way to protect hordes of guys and important monsters.

One problem is, that they changed how this Shrouded bubble is given out. It's on a model-by-model basis, if I read that correctly. So, it's only models with 6" of the Thrope, and not units. That makes it quite hard to keep hordes of guys protected with that cover save. Instead, it is probably mainly useful in protecting big monsters which it can easily keep within 6". This has the added benefits of blocking LOS and granting cover to the Venomthrope itself. I can hide an entire Thrope from view behind a Tervigon and it's belly.

I would describe this codex as the most blatant "here are new models, buy them" yet. Not that they're great models or rules or anything, but that GW needed to release a new codex to justify releasing new models.

They certainly didn't overhaul the army or anything, and most changes are lazy tidbits here and there. (With "here and there" being in mostly the wrong places, naturally.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Was really stoked about the Venomthrope conferring Shrouded instead of a flat 5+. That's going to go a long way to protect hordes of guys and important monsters.

One problem is, that they changed how this Shrouded bubble is given out. It's on a model-by-model basis, if I read that correctly. So, it's only models with 6" of the Thrope, and not units. That makes it quite hard to keep hordes of guys protected with that cover save. Instead, it is probably mainly useful in protecting big monsters which it can easily keep within 6". This has the added benefits of blocking LOS and granting cover to the Venomthrope itself. I can hide an entire Thrope from view behind a Tervigon and it's belly.

As has been posted a few times, only one model in a unit needs to have Shrouded for the entire unit to benefit. Venomthropes are one of the only units that were nothing but upgraded.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Was really stoked about the Venomthrope conferring Shrouded instead of a flat 5+. That's going to go a long way to protect hordes of guys and important monsters.

One problem is, that they changed how this Shrouded bubble is given out. It's on a model-by-model basis, if I read that correctly. So, it's only models with 6" of the Thrope, and not units. That makes it quite hard to keep hordes of guys protected with that cover save. Instead, it is probably mainly useful in protecting big monsters which it can easily keep within 6". This has the added benefits of blocking LOS and granting cover to the Venomthrope itself. I can hide an entire Thrope from view behind a Tervigon and it's belly.

A unit with 1 model with Shrouded has Shrouded.

JPong wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I don't get all the people saying they are going to try Warriors with this new release because their meta is all S7 no S8.

wtf does the new codex have to do with that? Has it freed your mind and allowed you to build new lists because there isn't a set monobuild yet?

Warriors are still just as bad as ever, if S8 blasts are non existant where you play you shoulda been done flooding Warriors by now :(

Tervigons are better than warriors in pretty much every way right now. In the next codex, it seems warriors close that gap a bit, through nerfs to the tervigon. Tyranids have gained options through everything good getting worse.

How do you reckon Warriors closed the gap? They didn't change. The only changes to the Warriors were nerfs (more expensive, weaker Boneswords), or new CC options (Flesh Hooks, Fleet due to AG).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skarsol wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Was really stoked about the Venomthrope conferring Shrouded instead of a flat 5+. That's going to go a long way to protect hordes of guys and important monsters.

One problem is, that they changed how this Shrouded bubble is given out. It's on a model-by-model basis, if I read that correctly. So, it's only models with 6" of the Thrope, and not units. That makes it quite hard to keep hordes of guys protected with that cover save. Instead, it is probably mainly useful in protecting big monsters which it can easily keep within 6". This has the added benefits of blocking LOS and granting cover to the Venomthrope itself. I can hide an entire Thrope from view behind a Tervigon and it's belly.

A unit with 1 model with Shrouded has Shrouded.

Thank god!

rollawaythestone wrote:

JPong wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I don't get all the people saying they are going to try Warriors with this new release because their meta is all S7 no S8.

wtf does the new codex have to do with that? Has it freed your mind and allowed you to build new lists because there isn't a set monobuild yet?

Warriors are still just as bad as ever, if S8 blasts are non existant where you play you shoulda been done flooding Warriors by now :(

Tervigons are better than warriors in pretty much every way right now. In the next codex, it seems warriors close that gap a bit, through nerfs to the tervigon. Tyranids have gained options through everything good getting worse.

How do you reckon Warriors closed the gap? They didn't change. The only changes to the Warriors were nerfs (more expensive, weaker Boneswords), or new CC options (Flesh Hooks, Fleet due to AG).

Basically, warriors look better in comparison because Tervigons look worse than they did.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

Backlash wrote:
Tervigons are essentually useless. Just because its scoring does not make it useful. They no longer support loads of gaunts. They are now nearly useless as psker support and hurt gaunts more than ever. All with a price increase. Just not worth it anymore.

Tyranid psykers have been neautered with the loss of access to anything but the codex powers. "Still hoping that will be fixed with faq as we would be the only codex with no access and psykers"

I predict a large number of FMC builds being used, supported by large broods of mixed gaunts and cheap fex builds.

It's just not true. Tervigons were great before, now they're merely good. Lots of people might go down from 2 to 1, but they're well worth outflanking for instance, to sit on an objective - according to the rumours, the new Hive Commander doesn't add the reserve rolls bonus, but it allows you to outflank more troop units.

After all, without tervigons, the troops choice is hugely limited. Time to assemble more termagants I guess...

How are they remotely good? You're paying 200 pts for a unit that can't be used to support your army without risking blowing half of it up, and does practically nothing else. If they had kept it's support rules the same and increased the price it would've still be good.

Warriors can be viable when you crate target priority.
Who are you going to shoot at:
The Warrior Brood
The Carnifex Brood
The 1.8 Billion Gaunts that are now in your face because of the Tervigon(s).

But that might be my local Meta

rollawaythestone wrote:
Was really stoked about the Venomthrope conferring Shrouded instead of a flat 5+. That's going to go a long way to protect hordes of guys and important monsters.

One problem is, that they changed how this Shrouded bubble is given out. It's on a model-by-model basis, if I read that correctly. So, it's only models with 6" of the Thrope, and not units. That makes it quite hard to keep hordes of guys protected with that cover save. Instead, it is probably mainly useful in protecting big monsters which it can easily keep within 6". This has the added benefits of blocking LOS and granting cover to the Venomthrope itself. I can hide an entire Thrope from view behind a Tervigon and it's belly.

Models within 6 inches get Shrouded, Shrouded is confered to a unit if 1 model in the unit has it, ergo, the unit has shrouded.
While not really needed, they should have just said units TBH.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

Backlash wrote:
Tervigons are essentually useless. Just because its scoring does not make it useful. They no longer support loads of gaunts. They are now nearly useless as psker support and hurt gaunts more than ever. All with a price increase. Just not worth it anymore.

Tyranid psykers have been neautered with the loss of access to anything but the codex powers. "Still hoping that will be fixed with faq as we would be the only codex with no access and psykers"

I predict a large number of FMC builds being used, supported by large broods of mixed gaunts and cheap fex builds.

It's just not true. Tervigons were great before, now they're merely good. Lots of people might go down from 2 to 1, but they're well worth outflanking for instance, to sit on an objective - according to the rumours, the new Hive Commander doesn't add the reserve rolls bonus, but it allows you to outflank more troop units.

After all, without tervigons, the troops choice is hugely limited. Time to assemble more termagants I guess...

How are they remotely good? You're paying 200 pts for a unit that can't be used to support your army without risking blowing half of it up, and does practically nothing else. If they had kept it's support rules the same and increased the price it would've still be good.

Technically speaking, it CAN still support your army. I don't think the backlash rule hurts non-Termagants, so throwing a Tervigon into a group of Fexes or whatever, they can still provide Synapse.