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Take three groups and drop them in behind the defense line, probably lose one to scatter. The other two can cause some pretty decent issues for their deployment. If you get first turn, try to move them so even if they blow to overwatch on the assault, they will still take out a few guys. Not bad for 45 points (assuming a three model minimum per group still). If you are feeling saucy, bump up the model count in the groups for a bigger footprint.

EDIT: If shooting them doesn't make them explode anymore, that's freaking awesome.

Going from the doom and gloom of loss of so many things that we had going for us in the old dex, to seeing the optimism in your posts and people picking up tidbits here and there, it makes me happy, although most of my army is redundant, and i dont want to but more things, but yeah, i do like the fex lists tbh..

 ductvader wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
It's a little hard to see an obvious core right now.

That's my favorite part of this book.

Personally, I think it's going to be Venoms Fexes and Gargoyles

I'm trying to develop three lists concurrently -- a shoot ya list, a run across and crump ya list, and a jump out at ya list. VTs and Carnifexes look rock-solid in the first 2, so you might be on to something there.

 xttz wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
So anyone have more info on spore mine clusters? Did they retain orbital bombardment in it's current form? Are they still S4 AP4 large blasts? At -5ppm and the ability to direct them (and charge with them) they could absolutely wreck face to those 4+sv troops cowering behind defense lines.

Misses from spore weapons make D3 spore mines. You can also buy 3-6 mines with deep strike. They move 3" and run/charge half what you roll. Not slowed by difficult terrain but test for Dangerous. The blow up at the I10 step in CC. S4+1 per mine after the first Large Blast centered over one of the mines. AP4 Ignores Cover.

Note that they're T1 W1 no save, so overwatch is going to eat their lunch. Also note that they're Init 1, so their explosion happens before either side piles in (unless you're fighting I10 stuff). I'd be shocked if you got more than 3 hits typically.

The scan I'm reading is blurry, what's the maximum strength? 9?

Edit: Also, do they give up a kill point? It wouldn't shock me for GW to make suicide units do that.

Rules max is 10, but a max size unit of 6 can only get to 9 (4 + 5 other mines = 9). They do not give up VP, or score, or deny.

Isn't there a tyranid unit that can drop spore mines? Was it the biovore or the harpy?

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
EDIT: If shooting them doesn't make them explode anymore, that's freaking awesome.

They only blow up at Init step 10 in CC. Nothing else makes them blow up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't there a tyranid unit that can drop spore mines? Was it the biovore or the harpy?

Both create D3 mines if their spore attack scatters off the target.

yeah cheap fexes, cheap troops,

is there a mechanic to take gargoyles as troops that anyone has found? because even with out that gargoyle rush + FMC's + fexes and gaunts close behind is a scary fast list...

not to mention as others have clued into, the uber cheap spore mines do a lot tactics wise if you know how to use em.

people complaing how OMGURR riptides are when tau can only take 3 or 4 assuming your TO hasnt banned incestuos allies, but for some reason people fail to see the awesome that 9 fexes could bring...

nids are a strong book, far from the weakest (thats orks ATM, and im still 7wins to one loss with them... they are fine till one of the 4-6 hard counters pops up) and not even close to the 2nd worst either....

iff 100's of boys can roflstomp lots of net lists, venom spam, ect, then hordes of gaunts with hordes of MC will do juuuuust fine suppoted by all the otehr stuff nids get.

lots of different, and viable builds will come out of this.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Take three groups and drop them in behind the defense line, probably lose one to scatter. The other two can cause some pretty decent issues for their deployment. If you get first turn, try to move them so even if they blow to overwatch on the assault, they will still take out a few guys. Not bad for 45 points (assuming a three model minimum per group still). If you are feeling saucy, bump up the model count in the groups for a bigger footprint.

They either start on your side of the board or they DS in turn 2+. There's not going to be any direct effect on their deployment unless they deploy specifically to counter your units that might get 3 hits if you're lucky.

skarsol wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
EDIT: If shooting them doesn't make them explode anymore, that's freaking awesome.

They only blow up at Init step 10 in CC. Nothing else makes them blow up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't there a tyranid unit that can drop spore mines? Was it the biovore or the harpy?

Both create D3 mines if their spore attack scatters off the target.

Is that per Biovore? (so a total of 3 D3 for a full brood?)

 easysauce wrote:
yeah cheap fexes, cheap troops,

is there a mechanic to take gargoyles as troops that anyone has found? because even with out that gargoyle rush + FMC's + fexes and gaunts close behind is a scary fast list...

not to mention as others have clued into, the uber cheap spore mines do a lot tactics wise if you know how to use em.

people complaing how OMGURR riptides are when tau can only take 3 or 4 assuming your TO hasnt banned incestuos allies, but for some reason people fail to see the awesome that 9 fexes could bring...

nids are a strong book, far from the weakest (thats orks ATM) and not even close to the 2nd worst either....

lots of different, and viable builds will come out of this.

No way to make Gargoyles troops.

Wonder how the power lists will deal with a swarm of tyranids if the points are cheap enough. Even getting one swarm into the crazy units will lock most of them up for the rest of the game. Surround them with another one and then they cant hit an run away(I believe)

damn was hoping for some way, but still they are cheap enough and in a less crowded FOC slot, so masses of them will still be awesome for getting to grips with the enemy, plus scoring in some missions, denial in the rest.

heracyangel wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
EDIT: If shooting them doesn't make them explode anymore, that's freaking awesome.

They only blow up at Init step 10 in CC. Nothing else makes them blow up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't there a tyranid unit that can drop spore mines? Was it the biovore or the harpy?

Both create D3 mines if their spore attack scatters off the target.

Is that per Biovore? (so a total of 3 D3 for a full brood?)

The rule only applies to the first blast marker of the barrage.

skarsol wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Take three groups and drop them in behind the defense line, probably lose one to scatter. The other two can cause some pretty decent issues for their deployment. If you get first turn, try to move them so even if they blow to overwatch on the assault, they will still take out a few guys. Not bad for 45 points (assuming a three model minimum per group still). If you are feeling saucy, bump up the model count in the groups for a bigger footprint.

They either start on your side of the board or they DS in turn 2+. There's not going to be any direct effect on their deployment unless they deploy specifically to counter your units that might get 3 hits if you're lucky.

Ah, nm then. That's why I asked if orbital bombardment still existed in it's current form.

skarsol wrote:

heracyangel wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
EDIT: If shooting them doesn't make them explode anymore, that's freaking awesome.

They only blow up at Init step 10 in CC. Nothing else makes them blow up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't there a tyranid unit that can drop spore mines? Was it the biovore or the harpy?

Both create D3 mines if their spore attack scatters off the target.

Is that per Biovore? (so a total of 3 D3 for a full brood?)

The rule only applies to the first blast marker of the barrage.

Hmm that could be nasty. Is it one shot only, or can they lay down mines per turn? I might have to tweak my TAC necron list to account for this...
Good thing it only applies to the first marker though. A trio of biovores laying down 9 mines a turn would be nuts.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Hmm that could be nasty. Is it one shot only, or can they lay down mines per turn? I can see a trio of biovores just coating the field with mines. I might have to tweak my TAC necron list to account for this...

Every time they shoot, but they have to miss entirely.

Is it just that they miss, or do they have to miss by a certain amount (like the current dex)?

Looks like spore mines might be nasty against tau then. Since it ignores cover, it'll mess up a gun line a bit. Perhaps even kill those pesky marker lights

Is it the spore mine detonation that ignores cover, or can the standard shot from biovores and harpies ignore cover as well?

Actually, spores could be fantastic against vehicles. They don't get overwatch, and by using them in combat it's against rear armour. I'd definitely pay 30pts for an automatically-hitting S9 attack on rear AV.

You can probably also guide them in with Lictors too.

 xttz wrote:
Actually, spores could be fantastic against vehicles. They don't get overwatch, and by using them in combat it's against rear armour. I'd definitely pay 30pts for an automatically-hitting S9 attack on rear AV.

You can probably also guide them in with Lictors too.

Ooh scary. That could mess up necron vehicles quite a bit too, since QS doesn't cover the rear.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Looks like spore mines might be nasty against tau then. Since it ignores cover, it'll mess up a gun line a bit. Perhaps even kill those pesky marker lights

Is it the spore mine detonation that ignores cover, or can the standard shot from biovores and harpies ignore cover as well?

If Biovore shots gained Ignore Cover, that's a pretty frelling HUGE upgrade.

xttz wrote:Actually, spores could be fantastic against vehicles. They don't get overwatch, and by using them in combat it's against rear armour. I'd definitely pay 30pts for an automatically-hitting S9 attack on rear AV.

You can probably also guide them in with Lictors too.

It will depend on if the explosion is treated as a CC attack, or if it is like the Toxic Miasma effect that goes off in CC, but it not an actual CC attack.

And for 30 points, you're not exploding at S9. You're exploding at S6; which is still not awful against AV10.

With all the hate on the new codex, I would like to offer a differing opinion.

The Nids can give any and every MC they have Fleet due to adrenal Glands. That is awesome. Really really awesome. the new heavy with its 6 s7 ap2 shots as bs 4. yes please! that will be good for shooting at those darn riptides. same with hive guard. Our Flyer is BAD, our Tyrant is GOOD. The +1s +3 int +Life leach (aka distort) Sword is actually pretty nice except for the points.

Carnifexes with fleet furious charge and regen will run 165 points. not terrible not great.

Mawlocks got way better. In pure killing power they don't seem that impressive. Consider the ability they have to remove units from objectives. Also I believe mawlock sniping will be a thing (at least I am doing it!!!). The mawlock uses the same rules as barrage, so consider a large number of hits on a unit with a beefy character. even if you don't land straight on his head not much lives through S6 AP2 ignores cover. If not enough stuff died we rinse, lather, then repeat! fantastic stuff from that unit.

Our psycic powers got forked over to the dice gods. so did everyone who has a 6th codex. no Iron arm from biomancy is annoying, but then again a T9 tyrant was a bit silly too.

warriors are still bad, except for the fact that you can give them fleet. Also I have not seen the rules for synapse yet. So I am still holding out for eternal warrior.

Raveners Loosing rending claws is not true. you just gotta buy em. cheap points.

the price reduction on hormas/termis is awesome in my mind. I usefully field at least 30 so that frees up 30 points to spend on upgrades! YAY points. this also allows our allies detachment to be incredibly cheap on points. starting at 160 points to unlock and extra +Heavy, Fast and Elite.

Also no one is talking about the upgrade to make it so the tervigon can't stop producing more units. Though to be fair you give up TONS of victory points in competitive play with those things (when used all the time).

Anyways I am a bit sad they did not introduce any new special characters, I would have loved to see some kinda trygon. also maybe a BIG trygon. To go toe to toe with the eldar wraithnight. Would have been cool.

Either way out of all the new models. All I want is an Exocrine. I think one of each of exocrine, trygon and mawlock will be so strong.

to 3++ is the new black if you want to find the spanish codex. at least shots of bunches of it. this is where I am getting most of my information. As well as google translate.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Looks like spore mines might be nasty against tau then. Since it ignores cover, it'll mess up a gun line a bit. Perhaps even kill those pesky marker lights

Is it the spore mine detonation that ignores cover, or can the standard shot from biovores and harpies ignore cover as well?

Do they flat out ignore it, or is this just Barrage? Because that's nothing new.

 streamdragon wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

And for 30 points, you're not exploding at S9. You're exploding at S6; which is still not awful against AV10.

They're 5pts each now, a full cluster of 6 is 30pts. The only drawback is they can't deep strike then assault, so your opponent gets a turn to blast 'em.

 streamdragon wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Looks like spore mines might be nasty against tau then. Since it ignores cover, it'll mess up a gun line a bit. Perhaps even kill those pesky marker lights

Is it the spore mine detonation that ignores cover, or can the standard shot from biovores and harpies ignore cover as well?

If Biovore shots gained Ignore Cover, that's a pretty frelling HUGE upgrade.

I know, right! Logically, it makes a bit of sense as well as it's more or less a gas attack. They probably won't have ignore cover though. That would be too metal.

 streamdragon wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Looks like spore mines might be nasty against tau then. Since it ignores cover, it'll mess up a gun line a bit. Perhaps even kill those pesky marker lights

Is it the spore mine detonation that ignores cover, or can the standard shot from biovores and harpies ignore cover as well?

If Biovore shots gained Ignore Cover, that's a pretty frelling HUGE upgrade.

Biovore's kind of already ignore cover due to barrage. Doesn't help with attacking a unit in area terrain or under the effect of something like a KFF.

 jifel wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Looks like spore mines might be nasty against tau then. Since it ignores cover, it'll mess up a gun line a bit. Perhaps even kill those pesky marker lights

Is it the spore mine detonation that ignores cover, or can the standard shot from biovores and harpies ignore cover as well?

Do they flat out ignore it, or is this just Barrage? Because that's nothing new.

Can barrage ignore area terrain cover? I don't think it can, but I'm too lazy to grab the BrB.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Hellraiser DeadMau5

 streamdragon wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Looks like spore mines might be nasty against tau then. Since it ignores cover, it'll mess up a gun line a bit. Perhaps even kill those pesky marker lights

Is it the spore mine detonation that ignores cover, or can the standard shot from biovores and harpies ignore cover as well?

If Biovore shots gained Ignore Cover, that's a pretty frelling HUGE upgrade.

xttz wrote:Actually, spores could be fantastic against vehicles. They don't get overwatch, and by using them in combat it's against rear armour. I'd definitely pay 30pts for an automatically-hitting S9 attack on rear AV.

You can probably also guide them in with Lictors too.

It will depend on if the explosion is treated as a CC attack, or if it is like the Toxic Miasma effect that goes off in CC, but it not an actual CC attack.

And for 30 points, you're not exploding at S9. You're exploding at S6; which is still not awful against AV10.

30 points is S9. 15 for the first 3, 15 for the 2nd 3 = 6 mines = S9 for 30 points.

Biovore shots are 48" S4 AP4 Assault 1, Barrage, Large Blast, Spore Burst. Spore Burst grants the D3 spores if the first Barrage pie has no models under it.

Lictors would guide in the purchased Spore Mines if the Lictor started the turn on the table.

Couple things here:

1. Hive Guard BS dropped to 3, and with AP4 they're useless for shooting at Riptides (2+ armor).
2. Fleet + Regen Fexes for 165 is much better than naked Fexes for 160.
3. Mawlocks got cheaper, but not really WAY better. Their attack from below is buffed, but it's still competing for HS slots.
4. We know Synapse doesn't grant EW. Nothing in the Nid codex does.
5. Raveners are still too costly.
6. 1 PPM for Horms/Terms isn't as big as people think, especially because TS/AG went up and Tervs no longer share those upgrades with Terms. So if you want TS/AG on your Terms, you're shelling out MORE points than before.
7. There is no upgrade for Tervigons to not stop producing.

Am i the only one excited about the new deathleaper, he sounds like what a real lictor should be.