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Disturb3d wrote: I'm looking forward to attatching OOE to a unit of dakkafexes with regen. The Carnistar.... Yeah.
OOE isn't an IC and so can't join the Carnis.
My bad I saw personaje and unico on the spanish sheets and just started thinking. Does that mean the prime can't either then? He's listed the same way. Except he isn't unique. Just being hopeful lol.
Prime has IC added as a special rule further down the page.
Hulksmash wrote: I must be an odd man out. I'm liking what I'm reading quite a bit. It's going to be a balance between bringing actually resilient and cover save dependent resilient but I think it's doable now.
Also Warriors have been solid for most of 6th as people transitioned away from missile launchers for rate of fire. Once that happened you could look at them as each one being 3x10pt models with St5/T4/4+ saves which is reasonable. The only kink is Tau Riptides as that's the only St8 Large Blast weapon seen regularly nowadays.
Honestly it's going to be the heavy support slot that hurts me. There is so much there. Elites are likely to simply be Venomthropes at this point with some people (like me) considering Lictors based on infiltrate and 50pt cost. My HQ is pretty locked in at Primes (which might explain the price hike) to ensure I can:
a) keep venomthropes alive
b) keep warriors alive
c) hide my synapse based on it's importance
My troops are likely to just consist of gant hordes of one type or another with maybe a warrior unit. I wasn't a huge fan of Tervigons before and the new rules seal that deal for me.
My fast attack are likely to consist solely of Gargoyles and Shrikes (and this is just a maybe on these).
The overall idea will be to put down approximately 24 T6 MC wounds supported by 100+ T3 infantry led by 2 Primes and including at least one unit (likely 2) of venomthropes.
I can definitely seeing 6 venomthropes becoming commonplace. Ignores cover is common enough to make 2-3 venomthropes irrelevant, but 2x3 with primes to tank will make them hard to get rid of and the rest of your army fairly durable. Although taking warriors may still be a poor decision, as 1/2 units of S8 with ignores cover can really mess them up in a hurry.
Primes might be a decent way to keep Venomthropes alive and provide synapse. You could do LoS shenanigans for wound allocation too.
Can they can any defensive upgrades aside from Regen and the Ymgarl factor?
I was expecting the worst with Tervigon's honestly. It doesn't surprise me it can't share buffs and the newly spawned Gants are limited. It does suck that they lost their psychic powers. But I was prepared for the worst - they could have only added Gants to already existent Gant squads, or something less useful like that.
Deathleaper: now HQ from Elites; -10 PPM; gain Infiltrate; Fleshhooks lose Rending
Old One Eye: now HQ from HS; -40 PPM; +1I
Elite Choices Hive Guard: +5 PPM; -1BS
Lictor: -15 PPM; gain Infiltrate
Pyrovore: -5 PPM; +1W, I, A; No more Spores
Venomthrope: -10 PPM; Gains Shroud instead of default 5+c save; No more Spores
Zoanthrope: -10 PPM; Mastery Level 2; Loses BRB powers; No more Spores; Now Brotherhood of Psykers (not sure if this is a gain or loss, honestly; makes the whole unit very "all or nothing")
Troop Choices Tyranid Warriors: +/- 0 PPM; No more Spores
Genestealers: +/- 0 PPM; No more Spores
--Broodlord: +/- 0 PPM; Single default power (positive or negative is up for debate I suppose)
Termagants: -1 PPM; No more Spores
Hormagaunts: -1 PPM; No more Spores
Ripper Swarms: +3 PPM; No longer guaranteed self destruct out of Synapse
Fast Attack Shrikes: +/- 0 PPM
Harpy: -25 PPM; +1W, A
Gargoyles: +/- 0 PPM
Sky Slasher Swarms: +3 PPM
Raveners: +/- 0 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs Spore Mine Clusters: -5 PPM
Heavy Support Carnifex: -40 PPM, +1I; -1A; No more Spores
Biovore: -5 PPM; +1W, I, A
Trygon: -10 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs Trygon Prime: -10 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs Mawloc: -30 PPM; better From Below rule
Tyranofex: -75! PPM; +1I
Let me know if I missed anything or something is wrong. Again, this doesn't account for changes to some special rules I couldn't understand, or things that would be on unit description pages.
edit 1: Updated Swarmlord to +1ML, -1 power known
edit 2: Updated for lack fo Spores
Not to add on to the doom and gloom, but you should include that Warriors and Hormagaunts no longer re-roll 1's in combat. Trygons and Raveners no longer re-roll to hit.
The Tervigon's spawned gants can't move/charge.
The Swarmlord no longer forces you to re-roll successful invulnerable saves.
Gargoyle upgrades (TS and AG) went up to 2 points each.
And the Tyranid Prime went up by 45 points, not 35.
The last one is just weird to me. Such a massive increase in price for no real changes? Was the Tyranid Prime overpowered before?
You guys do realize that the spawning is now at the end of the movement phase right? So you are not really losing out on the movement as much......Just the assault, which lets be honest we all knew was gonna go away.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/09 18:02:32
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
xttz wrote: Primes might be a decent way to keep Venomthropes alive and provide synapse. You could do LoS shenanigans for wound allocation too.
Can they can any defensive upgrades aside from Regen and the Ymgarl factor?
I've been playing Venoms through the years...personally...the best way to run them is solo and out of LoS...if you're opponent didn't kill it in turn 1...he's already done his job for the game.
Deathleaper: now HQ from Elites; -10 PPM; gain Infiltrate; Fleshhooks lose Rending
Old One Eye: now HQ from HS; -40 PPM; +1I
Elite Choices Hive Guard: +5 PPM; -1BS
Lictor: -15 PPM; gain Infiltrate
Pyrovore: -5 PPM; +1W, I, A; No more Spores
Venomthrope: -10 PPM; Gains Shroud instead of default 5+c save; No more Spores
Zoanthrope: -10 PPM; Mastery Level 2; Loses BRB powers; No more Spores; Now Brotherhood of Psykers (not sure if this is a gain or loss, honestly; makes the whole unit very "all or nothing")
Troop Choices Tyranid Warriors: +/- 0 PPM; No more Spores
Genestealers: +/- 0 PPM; No more Spores
--Broodlord: +/- 0 PPM; Single default power (positive or negative is up for debate I suppose)
Termagants: -1 PPM; No more Spores
Hormagaunts: -1 PPM; No more Spores
Ripper Swarms: +3 PPM; No longer guaranteed self destruct out of Synapse
Fast Attack Shrikes: +/- 0 PPM
Harpy: -25 PPM; +1W, A
Gargoyles: +/- 0 PPM
Sky Slasher Swarms: +3 PPM
Raveners: +/- 0 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs Spore Mine Clusters: -5 PPM
Heavy Support Carnifex: -40 PPM, +1I; -1A; No more Spores
Biovore: -5 PPM; +1W, I, A
Trygon: -10 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs Trygon Prime: -10 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs Mawloc: -30 PPM; better From Below rule
Tyranofex: -75! PPM; +1I
Let me know if I missed anything or something is wrong. Again, this doesn't account for changes to some special rules I couldn't understand, or things that would be on unit description pages.
edit 1: Updated Swarmlord to +1ML, -1 power known
edit 2: Updated for lack fo Spores
Not to add on to the doom and gloom, but you should include that Warriors and Hormagaunts no longer re-roll 1's in combat. Trygons and Raveners no longer re-roll to hit.
The Tervigon's spawned gants can't move/charge.
The Swarmlord no longer forces you to re-roll successful invulnerable saves.
Gargoyle upgrades (TS and AG) went up to 2 points each.
And the Tyranid Prime went up by 45 points, not 35.
The last one is just weird to me. Such a massive increase in price for no real changes? Was the Tyranid Prime overpowered before?
I think he's only putting down the photo verified changes...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/09 18:04:51
So anyone have more info on spore mine clusters? Did they retain orbital bombardment in it's current form? Are they still S4 AP4 large blasts? At -5ppm and the ability to direct them (and charge with them) they could absolutely wreck face to those 4+sv troops cowering behind defense lines.
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
Maelstrom808 wrote: So anyone have more info on spore mine clusters? Did they retain orbital bombardment in it's current form? Are they still S4 AP4 large blasts? At -5ppm and the ability to direct them (and charge with them) they could absolutely wreck face to those 4+sv troops cowering behind defense lines.
I would like to know this also. The only reason I have not used them is random spaffy movement.
Re the tervigon nerf, where more termagants die from the Brood Progenitor backlash within 12 inches if the brood mother dies.
DO we know the wording? Is it still on the unit/brood, or on the termagants? I'm clutching at straws, but if it's on the models, not the unit, there will be far fewer casualties.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/09 18:17:16
Not to add on to the doom and gloom, but you should include that Warriors and Hormagaunts no longer re-roll 1's in combat. Trygons and Raveners no longer re-roll to hit.
The Tervigon's spawned gants can't move/charge.
The Swarmlord no longer forces you to re-roll successful invulnerable saves.
Gargoyle upgrades (TS and AG) went up to 2 points each.
And the Tyranid Prime went up by 45 points, not 35.
The last one is just weird to me. Such a massive increase in price for no real changes? Was the Tyranid Prime overpowered before?
Update #3 featuring this and PMed issues. Added section for biomorphs, but not much there as I can't read spanish and can't look for the english pages online.
Spoiler:
HQ Choices Hive Tyrant: -5 PPM; +1BS; Loses BRB powers; lost 2+ armor save option; loses starting Lashwhip/Bonesword (this upgrade now costs 20 points I think)
SwarmLord: +5 PPM; +1BS; +1 Mastery Level -1 psychic power; Loses BRB Powers; no longer forces rerolls of successful ++ saves
Tervigon: +35 PPM; +1 I; -2 Powers; Loses BRB Powers; no longer shares AG/TS; kills larger area of gaunts; spawns gaunts no longer move or charge
Tyranid Prime: +45 PPM
Deathleaper: now HQ from Elites; -10 PPM; gain Infiltrate; Fleshhooks lose Rending
Old One Eye: now HQ from HS; -40 PPM; +1I
Elite Choices Hive Guard: +5 PPM; -1BS
Lictor: -15 PPM; gain Infiltrate
Pyrovore: -5 PPM; +1W, I, A; No more Spores
Venomthrope: -10 PPM; Gains Shroud instead of default 5+c save; No more Spores
Zoanthrope: -10 PPM; Mastery Level 2; Loses BRB powers; No more Spores; Now Brotherhood of Psykers (not sure if this is a gain or loss, honestly; makes the whole unit very "all or nothing")
Troop Choices Tyranid Warriors: +/- 0 PPM; No more Spores
Genestealers: +/- 0 PPM; No more Spores
--Broodlord: +/- 0 PPM; Single default power (positive or negative is up for debate I suppose)
Termagants: -1 PPM; can mix weapon types within a unit; No more Spores; cost of TS/AG increased
Hormagaunts: -1 PPM; No more Spores; STs no longer reroll 1s/misses; cost of TS/AG increased
Ripper Swarms: +3 PPM; No longer guaranteed self destruct out of Synapse
Fast Attack Shrikes: +/- 0 PPM
Harpy: -25 PPM; +1W, A
Gargoyles: +/- 0 PPM
Sky Slasher Swarms: +3 PPM
Raveners: +/- 0 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWsSTs no longer reroll 1s/misses
Spore Mine Clusters: -5 PPM
Heavy Support Carnifex: -40 PPM, +1I; -1A; No more Spores
Biovore: -5 PPM; +1W, I, A
Trygon: -10 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs; STs no longer reroll 1s/misses
Trygon Prime: -10 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs; STs no longer reroll 1s/misses
Mawloc: -30 PPM; better From Below rule
Tyranofex: -75! PPM; +1I
Biomorphs -General-
Adrenal Glands: Grants Fleet along with Furious Charge
Toxin Sacs: No changes
Regeneration: Regain a wound on a 4+ instead of 6(I believe?)
-Melee-
Scything Talons: Grants extra attack with another CC biomorph; AP6 (lolz); No longer reroll 1s/misses
Rending Claws: Grants extra attack with another CC biomorph; AP5
Crushing Claws: Grants extra attack with another CC biomorph; No longer forces I1 for MCs; S+1; Armorbane; AP2 for non MCs; Lost D3 bonus attacks
-Ranged-
Devourer: No longer causes -1 to Ld
edit 1: Updated Swarmlord to +1ML, -1 power known
edit 2: Updated for lack of Spores
edit 3: Points adjustments and effects of some biomorphs.
Hulksmash wrote: I must be an odd man out. I'm liking what I'm reading quite a bit. It's going to be a balance between bringing actually resilient and cover save dependent resilient but I think it's doable now.
Also Warriors have been solid for most of 6th as people transitioned away from missile launchers for rate of fire. Once that happened you could look at them as each one being 3x10pt models with St5/T4/4+ saves which is reasonable. The only kink is Tau Riptides as that's the only St8 Large Blast weapon seen regularly nowadays.
Honestly it's going to be the heavy support slot that hurts me. There is so much there. Elites are likely to simply be Venomthropes at this point with some people (like me) considering Lictors based on infiltrate and 50pt cost. My HQ is pretty locked in at Primes (which might explain the price hike) to ensure I can:
a) keep venomthropes alive
b) keep warriors alive
c) hide my synapse based on it's importance
My troops are likely to just consist of gant hordes of one type or another with maybe a warrior unit. I wasn't a huge fan of Tervigons before and the new rules seal that deal for me.
My fast attack are likely to consist solely of Gargoyles and Shrikes (and this is just a maybe on these).
The overall idea will be to put down approximately 24 T6 MC wounds supported by 100+ T3 infantry led by 2 Primes and including at least one unit (likely 2) of venomthropes.
Hey Hulk,
Can you explain to me how Primes will do A and B, and if C is because you're joining them to a unit of warriors, or just hiding them out of LOS?
tetrisphreak wrote: Tyranids will fight aircrons with the same flying tyrants we did a week ago - they're still s6 assault 12, but now BS4 for 30 points cheaper apiece.
Crones get d3+1 auto hits at s8 ignores cover when they vector strike - the croissants don't ignore their (admittedly crappy) 4+ armor. We have better anti-air than before at lower cost, it just isn't Tau Empire Anti-Air that everyone is used to seeing at tournaments.
It's not all doom and gloom. It's just...meh.
A week ago Tyranids weren't relevant. Noone who actually goes to tournaments cares how they used to fight Aircrons, because if you actually ended up playings vs. Tyranids you always ended up winning. That's why I should've formulated my question better. My point was, how are the new Tyranids going to succesfully deal with Aircrons and the other armies that I mentioned? So of course, if the methods haven't changed, it means the methods still blow, and Cruddy & Co failed to address these issues just like they failed to address the hundred other issues that have plagued certain units or armies for a decade.
They had one good build that was kind of a dick army, but those days are over now!
Spawn at end of movement phase.
Works even when in combat.
3 d6 within 6 inches.
Spawned unit cannot move or charge.
Can run and shoot.
Spawned unit counts as troops for mission purposes.
If double rolled it cannot spawn for rest of game.
Oli: Can I be an orc?
Everyone: No.
Oli: But it fits through the doors, Look!
One funny thing I am half tempted to try is a Trygon Prime with the Reaper of Obliterax Bonesword.
That boosts its Initiative to 7, Strength to 7, gives it Shred and Life Drain (and of course in concern with one set of Talons, brings its Attacks back to 6). It would make for an interesting multi-wound model hunter (thanks to the re-rolling to wound and Instant Death on 6s).
Redemption wrote:Besides the Terror from the Deep? They can Run I guess? And look menacing.
haha, awesome!
Still, killing MEQs on 2+ with rerolls is enough for me. Plus if they don't kill all in his way, a roll of 4-6 on the Mishap Chart means he's coming back for another go, next turn
ductvader wrote:Can we get some real wording on tervigons?
For one, do they spawn following the same rules as before?
3d6 with ohnoes for doubles?
Apparently so.
Tervigon always burns out on first spawn for me. It's a T6 W6 monster who can sit on objectives without being babysat. And with the Larvae upgrade she can hold her own for a bit. I'm no must win at all costs player though which allot of the Tervigon negativity appears to be coming from.
People seem to have thrown away the all dependable Flyrant that was in everyones list before, got significantly better. Not that i want to run 2, but i guess it's a nice crutch.
Maelstrom808 wrote: So anyone have more info on spore mine clusters? Did they retain orbital bombardment in it's current form? Are they still S4 AP4 large blasts? At -5ppm and the ability to direct them (and charge with them) they could absolutely wreck face to those 4+sv troops cowering behind defense lines.
Misses from spore weapons make D3 spore mines. You can also buy 3-6 mines with deep strike. They move 3" and run/charge half what you roll. Not slowed by difficult terrain but test for Dangerous. The blow up at the I10 step in CC. S4+1 per mine after the first Large Blast centered over one of the mines. AP4 Ignores Cover.
Note that they're T1 W1 no save, so overwatch is going to eat their lunch. Also note that they're Init 1, so their explosion happens before either side piles in (unless you're fighting I10 stuff). I'd be shocked if you got more than 3 hits typically.
Maelstrom808 wrote: So anyone have more info on spore mine clusters? Did they retain orbital bombardment in it's current form? Are they still S4 AP4 large blasts? At -5ppm and the ability to direct them (and charge with them) they could absolutely wreck face to those 4+sv troops cowering behind defense lines.
Misses from spore weapons make D3 spore mines. You can also buy 3-6 mines with deep strike. They move 3" and run/charge half what you roll. Not slowed by difficult terrain but test for Dangerous. The blow up at the I10 step in CC. S4+1 per mine after the first Large Blast centered over one of the mines. AP4 Ignores Cover.
Note that they're T1 W1 no save, so overwatch is going to eat their lunch. Also note that they're Init 1, so their explosion happens before either side piles in (unless you're fighting I10 stuff). I'd be shocked if you got more than 3 hits typically.
For 5pts a piece...the movement denial is quite worthwhile.
Maelstrom808 wrote: So anyone have more info on spore mine clusters? Did they retain orbital bombardment in it's current form? Are they still S4 AP4 large blasts? At -5ppm and the ability to direct them (and charge with them) they could absolutely wreck face to those 4+sv troops cowering behind defense lines.
Misses from spore weapons make D3 spore mines. You can also buy 3-6 mines with deep strike. They move 3" and run/charge half what you roll. Not slowed by difficult terrain but test for Dangerous. The blow up at the I10 step in CC. S4+1 per mine after the first Large Blast centered over one of the mines. AP4 Ignores Cover.
Note that they're T1 W1 no save, so overwatch is going to eat their lunch. Also note that they're Init 1, so their explosion happens before either side piles in (unless you're fighting I10 stuff). I'd be shocked if you got more than 3 hits typically.
Eh, Overwatch hits on sixes. Could get lucky. Besides, better the mines get overwatched than something important.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/09 18:58:57
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Still pretty handy. If they shoot the mines, that's less shots against the main army. If they don't shoot the mines, they get closer. You say you can charge with them?
Charging with them is the only way to make them blow up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/09 18:57:59
Redemption wrote:Besides the Terror from the Deep? They can Run I guess? And look menacing.
haha, awesome!
Still, killing MEQs on 2+ with rerolls is enough for me. Plus if they don't kill all in his way, a roll of 4-6 on the Mishap Chart means he's coming back for another go, next turn
You just have to hope you're not in reserve when the game ends. But hey, it's 140 pts...fairly disposable, right?
Now that I'm listbuilding...I'm having fun. Every time I swap something out, dominos fall and I want to make other changes. It's a little hard to see an obvious core right now.
Maelstrom808 wrote: So anyone have more info on spore mine clusters? Did they retain orbital bombardment in it's current form? Are they still S4 AP4 large blasts? At -5ppm and the ability to direct them (and charge with them) they could absolutely wreck face to those 4+sv troops cowering behind defense lines.
Misses from spore weapons make D3 spore mines. You can also buy 3-6 mines with deep strike. They move 3" and run/charge half what you roll. Not slowed by difficult terrain but test for Dangerous. The blow up at the I10 step in CC. S4+1 per mine after the first Large Blast centered over one of the mines. AP4 Ignores Cover.
Note that they're T1 W1 no save, so overwatch is going to eat their lunch. Also note that they're Init 1, so their explosion happens before either side piles in (unless you're fighting I10 stuff). I'd be shocked if you got more than 3 hits typically.
The scan I'm reading is blurry, what's the maximum strength? 9?
Edit: Also, do they give up a kill point? It wouldn't shock me for GW to make suicide units do that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/09 19:08:05
11,100 pts, 
7,000 pts
: 3000+
: 2000+
: 2000+
~1660
. But like Cthululs Spy said, against anyone but Tau it should be a benefit.
But hey, it's 140 pts...fairly disposable, right?
