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 pretre wrote:
No big surprise for anyone, I'm sure, but Nidmageddon for Rumor Mongers continues.

Larry Vela and Natfka are putting up some pretty impressive numbers of FALSEs for this release. Larry, in particular, bet a lot on this one and lost big.

That guy who said he talked to someone over Vassal (Tyren) was obviously full of it as well. I think he's at 31 False and 5 True right now.

Isn't there a chance that instead of them being "full of it" that they have been misinformed on purpose to root out rumor mongers on GW's inside? Larry has always been pretty accurate on other releases hasn't he? Natfka was wrong on a lot of accounts, but some proved to be true. I really think these rumor mongers are getting sniped by people in the know by giving them false rumors. GW is getting much better at keeping a lid on things and I bet a lot of the reasons why some of our rumor mongers were wrong is because they have been fed false information.

 tetrisphreak wrote:


Not exactly...It is an additional attack after all. Also for carnifex broods you must factor in the D3 hammer of wrath hits (average 2) that don't even need to roll to-hit. So a fex drops down to 3 base attacks, but with 2x scytals and will get 5 attacks on the charge, plus a tail attack, plus D3 hammer of wrath all at s9 or s8.

Not bad for ~130 points.

Just keep in mind tail attacks are extra points (don't come stock) and are not resolved at the fex's strength or with AP2.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Draknaul wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, I do not have my codex yet, but Carnifex has the tail weapon now, that plus s talons and hvc Would result in 2 extra attacks, one for 2 cc weapons (tail and s talons) and the additional tail profile. 5 attacks if charged and 6 if charging.

Tail attacks are not considered an CC weapon and do not count towards extra CC weapons. If you have a gun there is no way to get +1A from a second set of CC weapons (except raveners).

 Gloomfang wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:


Not exactly...It is an additional attack after all. Also for carnifex broods you must factor in the D3 hammer of wrath hits (average 2) that don't even need to roll to-hit. So a fex drops down to 3 base attacks, but with 2x scytals and will get 5 attacks on the charge, plus a tail attack, plus D3 hammer of wrath all at s9 or s8.

Not bad for ~130 points.

Just keep in mind tail attacks are extra points (don't come stock) and are not resolved at the fex's strength or with AP2.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Draknaul wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, I do not have my codex yet, but Carnifex has the tail weapon now, that plus s talons and hvc Would result in 2 extra attacks, one for 2 cc weapons (tail and s talons) and the additional tail profile. 5 attacks if charged and 6 if charging.

Tail attacks are not considered an CC weapon and do not count towards extra CC weapons. If you have a gun there is no way to get +1A from a second set of CC weapons (except raveners).

Does the tail weapon rules say they are always resolved with the ap shown on the profile?

So Regen is each turn or each player turn?

 ductvader wrote:

Draknaul wrote:

streamdragon 567025 6422392 wrote:

I think he just means total.

3 stock +1 for Scytals +1 charging +1 solo tail attack.
I am certain he does not mean total. A fex with Scything Talons + Heavy Venom Cannon would have 3 base and 1 tail. +1 for charging if relevant.

Almost, I thought that the tail counts as a cc weapon for the purpose of calculating the + 1 for two cc weapons.

Screamerfexes with tails and adrenals would clock at...165?

That sounds solid...or skip the plasma...to each their own.

I think the trap with Fexes is that it's really easy to make them overkill. By the time you add up all the S9 HoW hits, S9/10 attacks, tails, and plasma shots (they need to be fired at the target you're going to charge, from within charge range), you may well be left swinging wildly at a burning crater in the ground. Plus, in some situations isn't is best to not totally wipe out the opposing unit so your Fexes are safely locked in combat for a turn?

I'd be more inclined to go with bare minimum loadouts (dual-devs or AG and frag spines) and use the points saved from plasma/tails/etc to simply get more MCs, or units to support them (Synapse/Venomthropes/Psykers).

Tail weapons do not benefit from smash or biomorphs.

Regen is the end of the owning players turn.

Is there any word when the Vanguard dataslate is coming out?

Later this month Zookie, iirc (18th?).

Siphen wrote:
I just have two remaining questions:

1. Does Regeneration actually give you a 4+ to regain a wound at the end of every player turn (like the reference page would suggest)? Or is it just a 4+ IWND, meaning it's only at the end of your turn?

2. How do the Hive Tyrant upgrades work (Hive Commander, Indescribable Horror, etc)? I know they're all much cheaper.

1 - No. From the actual scan of the full description biomorphs, page 67 "At the end of each friendly turn... "

2 - Hive tyrant, from the actual scan of the critter;
Hive commander - "For each hive tyrant in your army with this upgrade, select a single troop selection from the same detachment. All models in that selected unit gain the Outflank special rule".
Indescribable Horror - "Units taking a fear test caused by this model must roll an extra dice when taking the test and use the highest two results. In most circumstances, this will mean that the unit rolls 3d6 and discards the lowest dice roll "

I find hive commander fascinating, as there is the direct implication (for the most part they are very careful with wording in the book...) of us getting additional detachments, either via dataslates, expansions, supplments...etc.

 xttz wrote:
I think the trap with Fexes is that it's really easy to make them overkill. By the time you add up all the S9 HoW hits, S9/10 attacks, tails, and plasma shots (they need to be fired at the target you're going to charge, from within charge range), you may well be left swinging wildly at a burning crater in the ground. Plus, in some situations isn't is best to not totally wipe out the opposing unit so your Fexes are safely locked in combat for a turn?

I'd be more inclined to go with bare minimum loadouts (dual-devs or AG and frag spines) and use the points saved from plasma/tails/etc to simply get more MCs, or units to support them (Synapse/Venomthropes/Psykers).

A very solid point...but then again, bio plasma has never been about effectiveness...just pure cool factor...nothing feels more godzilla like than breathing plasma down on the enemy.

I personally see myself running adrenals and tails or guns.

I personally like that you have to choose the purpose for your beast...very "tyranid-y"

Eldercaveman wrote:

Does the tail weapon rules say they are always resolved with the ap shown on the profile?

Yep and says that biomorphs don't affect it either. So if you have toxin sacs the tail attack doesn't get poison.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

Draknaul wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, I do not have my codex yet, but Carnifex has the tail weapon now, that plus s talons and hvc Would result in 2 extra attacks, one for 2 cc weapons (tail and s talons) and the additional tail profile. 5 attacks if charged and 6 if charging.

Tail weapons do not interact in any way with anything else the model has, except it's Initiative stat.

Not exactly...It is an additional attack after all. Also for carnifex broods you must factor in the D3 hammer of wrath hits (average 2) that don't even need to roll to-hit. So a fex drops down to 3 base attacks, but with 2x scytals and will get 5 attacks on the charge, plus a tail attack, plus D3 hammer of wrath all at s9 or s8.

Not bad for ~130 points.

D3 Hammer of Wrath is a joke. Even 3 hits isn't enough to kill 1 marine since they don't ignore armor. I honestly can't believe anyone is taking them seriously. They are good against vehicles and that is pretty much all.

 ductvader wrote:

I personally see myself running adrenals and tails or guns.

I personally like that you have to choose the purpose for your beast...very "tyranid-y"

The return of the Godfex is welcome, but I remember how pricy those builds got fast. Running mine with AG only, may bioplasma in old school SK style. Of course I only have old school SK models. Glad I have enough for a brood.

JPong wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

Draknaul wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, I do not have my codex yet, but Carnifex has the tail weapon now, that plus s talons and hvc Would result in 2 extra attacks, one for 2 cc weapons (tail and s talons) and the additional tail profile. 5 attacks if charged and 6 if charging.

Tail weapons do not interact in any way with anything else the model has, except it's Initiative stat.

Not exactly...It is an additional attack after all. Also for carnifex broods you must factor in the D3 hammer of wrath hits (average 2) that don't even need to roll to-hit. So a fex drops down to 3 base attacks, but with 2x scytals and will get 5 attacks on the charge, plus a tail attack, plus D3 hammer of wrath all at s9 or s8.

Not bad for ~130 points.

D3 Hammer of Wrath is a joke. Even 3 hits isn't enough to kill 1 marine since they don't ignore armor. I honestly can't believe anyone is taking them seriously. They are good against vehicles and that is pretty much all.

I live in a world where marines don't *always* make their 3+ save. Every wound caused is a chance to kill a model.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

JPong wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

Draknaul wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, I do not have my codex yet, but Carnifex has the tail weapon now, that plus s talons and hvc Would result in 2 extra attacks, one for 2 cc weapons (tail and s talons) and the additional tail profile. 5 attacks if charged and 6 if charging.

Tail weapons do not interact in any way with anything else the model has, except it's Initiative stat.

Not exactly...It is an additional attack after all. Also for carnifex broods you must factor in the D3 hammer of wrath hits (average 2) that don't even need to roll to-hit. So a fex drops down to 3 base attacks, but with 2x scytals and will get 5 attacks on the charge, plus a tail attack, plus D3 hammer of wrath all at s9 or s8.

Not bad for ~130 points.

D3 Hammer of Wrath is a joke. Even 3 hits isn't enough to kill 1 marine since they don't ignore armor. I honestly can't believe anyone is taking them seriously. They are good against vehicles and that is pretty much all.

I live in a world where marines don't *always* make their 3+ save. Every wound caused is a chance to kill a model.

It's a 2+ to wound as well, and can Insta-gib most marine characters. I say D3 auto S9 hits is pretty scary.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

JPong wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

Draknaul wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, I do not have my codex yet, but Carnifex has the tail weapon now, that plus s talons and hvc Would result in 2 extra attacks, one for 2 cc weapons (tail and s talons) and the additional tail profile. 5 attacks if charged and 6 if charging.

Tail weapons do not interact in any way with anything else the model has, except it's Initiative stat.

Not exactly...It is an additional attack after all. Also for carnifex broods you must factor in the D3 hammer of wrath hits (average 2) that don't even need to roll to-hit. So a fex drops down to 3 base attacks, but with 2x scytals and will get 5 attacks on the charge, plus a tail attack, plus D3 hammer of wrath all at s9 or s8.

Not bad for ~130 points.

D3 Hammer of Wrath is a joke. Even 3 hits isn't enough to kill 1 marine since they don't ignore armor. I honestly can't believe anyone is taking them seriously. They are good against vehicles and that is pretty much all.

I live in a world where marines don't *always* make their 3+ save. Every wound caused is a chance to kill a model.

I live in a world of statistics. If something doesn't perform reliably, it's a liability. 3 hits is enough to *probably* kill one marine, but it's d3 not 3, meaning you can't reliably kill *one* marine.

Who is the world is sending Carnifexes after marines?

What bug player is even worried about killing marines?

One playing against Space Marines? Not sure what you're getting at here.

 ductvader wrote:
Who is the world is sending Carnifexes after marines?

What bug player is even worried about killing marines?

Does it really need to be explained that MEQs are used as a standard unit in 40k, given that the majority of units have MEQ stats and are considered the gold standard? Do you really think you are smart pointing this out?

 streamdragon wrote:
One playing against Space Marines? Not sure what you're getting at here.

He means why send a unit like the carnifex against infantry when it could be eating tanks. Leave infantry to gaunts and gants.
Then again, it is pretty hilarious watching a bunch of marines run away from a giant roach

 streamdragon wrote:
One playing against Space Marines? Not sure what you're getting at here.

Carnifexes go after big targets, Forts, tanks, artillary, high toughness targets.

Trying to state that a weapon doesn't reliably kill a target it's not meant for makes little sense.

Bolters must be terrible because they can't kill Land Raiders...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
One playing against Space Marines? Not sure what you're getting at here.

He means why send a unit like the carnifex against infantry when it could be eating tanks. Leave infantry to gaunts and gants.

Because there is always a tank in range right? It's not like they move faster than carnifex right? It's not like there are any infantry that you need strong AP2 attacks against either right? No, the carnifex is only for eating tanks and should always be chasing down tanks.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
One playing against Space Marines? Not sure what you're getting at here.

He means why send a unit like the carnifex against infantry when it could be eating tanks. Leave infantry to gaunts and gants.
Then again, it is pretty hilarious watching a bunch of marines run away from a giant roach

The move away from transports in 6e (or at least, I've heard there was a move away from transports), leaves some units footslogging. Infantry might also be the only thing in range. I mean, I get the idea that Fexes are better off dealing with things other than Tac marines, but when your Fexers are a hammer, everything on the other side looks a lot like nails.

JPong wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Who is the world is sending Carnifexes after marines?

What bug player is even worried about killing marines?

Does it really need to be explained that MEQs are used as a standard unit in 40k, given that the majority of units have MEQ stats and are considered the gold standard? Do you really think you are smart pointing this out?

MEQs aren't the standard right now though...they're pretty far from it actually.

Well since fexes move 6" and have no way to outflank, infiltrate, or deep strike, it's very easy to put marines in front of a valuable tank or a rhino in front of valuable marines.

People are missing a lot of the impact of removing spore pod options as well as not providing new deployment or movement solutions.

A walking CC army is the easiest to counter because you just decide which of your units aren't needed to complete the mission, and send them to block the advancing bugs. They assault the sacrificial unit, win, and are left in the open to take more shooting.

 ductvader wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
One playing against Space Marines? Not sure what you're getting at here.

Carnifexes go after big targets, Forts, tanks, artillary, high toughness targets.

Trying to state that a weapon doesn't reliably kill a target it's not meant for makes little sense.

Bolters must be terrible because they can't kill Land Raiders...

Bolters aren't terrible because they fit the job they were made for.

D3 HoW hits doesn't really fit the job the carnifex was made for. It already walks over tanks in CC. Making it do more of that doesn't make it a much better unit. It doesn't help against high toughness models because they have an armor save. It doesn't help the carnifex catch tanks either, which is it's biggest problem as a CC unit. If you are taking a CC carnifex as an anti-tank option, you are doing something wrong.

davethepak wrote:
Hive tyrant, from the actual scan of the critter;
Hive commander - "For each hive tyrant in your army with this upgrade, select a single troop selection from the same detachment. All models in that selected unit gain the Outflank special rule".
Indescribable Horror - "Units taking a fear test caused by this model must roll an extra dice when taking the test and use the highest two results. In most circumstances, this will mean that the unit rolls 3d6 and discards the lowest dice roll "

I find hive commander fascinating, as there is the direct implication (for the most part they are very careful with wording in the book...) of us getting additional detachments, either via dataslates, expansions, supplments...etc.

Nice observation! (That last sentence)

Very, very interesting possibility...

Another one I cant comprehend is that they left the Trygon tunnel. Has anyone ever, EVER used it or planned a game on using it? Surely they didnt test it out.

 Lord Scythican wrote:

 pretre wrote:
No big surprise for anyone, I'm sure, but Nidmageddon for Rumor Mongers continues.

Larry Vela and Natfka are putting up some pretty impressive numbers of FALSEs for this release. Larry, in particular, bet a lot on this one and lost big.

That guy who said he talked to someone over Vassal (Tyren) was obviously full of it as well. I think he's at 31 False and 5 True right now.

Isn't there a chance that instead of them being "full of it" that they have been misinformed on purpose to root out rumor mongers on GW's inside? Larry has always been pretty accurate on other releases hasn't he? Natfka was wrong on a lot of accounts, but some proved to be true. I really think these rumor mongers are getting sniped by people in the know by giving them false rumors. GW is getting much better at keeping a lid on things and I bet a lot of the reasons why some of our rumor mongers were wrong is because they have been fed false information.

It is entirely possible. Larry has never been terribly accurate though and Natfka just doesn't know how to filter things out. He posts everything.

Either way, whether they are making crud up or just being fed bad info, that means they are not good sources. Contrast them with some of the mongers with good records, who are obviously not making stuff and have good sources (or just know how to tell crap from gold).

 RiTides wrote:

davethepak wrote:
Hive tyrant, from the actual scan of the critter;
Hive commander - "For each hive tyrant in your army with this upgrade, select a single troop selection from the same detachment. All models in that selected unit gain the Outflank special rule".
Indescribable Horror - "Units taking a fear test caused by this model must roll an extra dice when taking the test and use the highest two results. In most circumstances, this will mean that the unit rolls 3d6 and discards the lowest dice roll "

I find hive commander fascinating, as there is the direct implication (for the most part they are very careful with wording in the book...) of us getting additional detachments, either via dataslates, expansions, supplments...etc.

Nice observation! (That last sentence)

Very, very interesting possibility...

Or it's relating to double FOC lists? I see no direct implication of anything, honestly. Lots of special rules target only units from the same detachment.