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So, as frustrating as it could be for some of us who can't/won't spend 200ish dollars on new models, GW officially decided to allow super-heavies in any games WITHOUT the requirement of a mutual agreement.

I think the gaming meta will definitely shift, at least in my gaming store, to a you-have/kill-super heavy, you win, situation. So my big question for the day is: how to kill a super heavy?

This is my Tau army ATM:

O'Vesa star
Farsight DS w/ 3 TL plasma suits
Skyray
Another riptide
20 Kroots in 2 units
1 lone flamer suit for objectives

Now this is a pretty competitive list in my area, and it has served me pretty well for the most part in my last week or so. But today the super-heavy list my opponent used torn me a new one right away. He was playing guards with a baneblade. During first turn it was night fight and so I survived with my deathstar relatively unharmed, I took off 3 hull points off his beast and that was it. We played the objective mission where all the objectives gave you armourbane, if it weren't for that I'd fail even harder. After turn 2 all I had left was my last riptide which was out of LOS and 1 unit of kroots somewhere in cover trying really hard to survive pretty much everything else he had in 1500pt other than the baneblade.

So this really makes me feel terrible, and to make matters worse Baneblade weapons weren't strengh D! Can you imagine what an eldar titan can do to an army?!

Enough of my rant, here's what I'd like to hear from dakka; what would you do to take down these monsters who don't belong in normal games?

At the end my plan is to drop a kroot unit, drop the lone flamer dude, drop stim on my other riptide, and then have 3 melta suits that will kind of help with my cause and make my all comer army pretty viable for taking on super heavies as well. And in 2000pt I'm adding my Tau version of the Aquila Stronghold because...well...

*Bonus cookies if you get where the quote is from, its quite easy* "To fight monsters, we created monsters of our own."

Cheers dakka, happy wargaming!

Well, for my Sisters, I am not changing my plan all that much. I've got two outflanking Dominion squads packed with meltaguns.

All in all, I'm honestly not too scared of superheavies, I don't think that they will obliterate the game unless they are played by pricks, but let's be honest, they would ruin the game no matter what they had. <shrug>

For most supeheavies, things like Baneblades and Stompas, you'll deal with the the same way you'd deal with a squadron of Leman Russ tanks. Same HP count, roughly same firepower, roughly same armor.

Wings of Purity wrote:
So my big question for the day is: how to kill a super heavy?

Melta, melta, and more melta. Drop Farsight with a squad of dual-melta suits behind the Baneblade and it dies in one turn.

Also, railsharks are your friend.

Wings of Purity wrote:
So, as frustrating as it could be for some of us who can't/won't spend 200ish dollars on new models, GW officially decided to allow super-heavies in any games WITHOUT the requirement of a mutual agreement.

Honestly, believing that was your first mistake. All you had to do was say, "No thanks, but I'm not prepared (or don't want) to play against a superheavy, some other time, then." All games, by their very nature, are subject to mutual agreement.

Anyway, moving on. Sounds like you just had really bad luck. What would you do if you were faced with three Leman Russ Battle Tanks, two Land Raiders, or two Wraithknights?

Unless they are immune to glances, haywire grenades and dark lances for my DE.

Powerklaws for my Orks.

Plagueblades and MCs for my daemons.



As tau, meltaspam should work.

Are you really asking for sympathy when you run multiple Riptides and spam plasma Tau?

Try taking fusion.

Also quote is from Pacific Rim, i think

Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:Are you really asking for sympathy when you run multiple Riptides and spam plasma Tau?

Try taking fusion.

I am the bad guy here am I not? But I guess taking that beating was a lesson well deserved!

Ascalam wrote:Also quote is from Pacific Rim, i think

You got it!



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Wings of Purity wrote:
So, as frustrating as it could be for some of us who can't/won't spend 200ish dollars on new models, GW officially decided to allow super-heavies in any games WITHOUT the requirement of a mutual agreement.

Honestly, believing that was your first mistake. All you had to do was say, "No thanks, but I'm not prepared (or don't want) to play against a superheavy, some other time, then." All games, by their very nature, are subject to mutual agreement.

Anyway, moving on. Sounds like you just had really bad luck. What would you do if you were faced with three Leman Russ Battle Tanks, two Land Raiders, or two Wraithknights?

I've had problems with Leman Russ tanks, 4 of them I think. But they were alright since HBC had good rolls, same with my Nova charged IA, and they are only ap3. Haven't faced Wraithknights but I would expect them to be problems too. Meltas really seem to be the solution.

So it seems like IA:2 2nd Edition already has the super-heavy stuff listed as lords of war - presumably FW will be giving everything else the same treatment. That means you can take a Typhon Heavy Siege Tank, with AV14 on all sides, a 7" blast s10ap1 no cover weapon, and it can buy Melta immunity for 20 points (assuming they haven't changed the rules, I haven't seen much of the new book yet). This ought to handily crush just about anything that isn't strength D, aside from maybe lots of wraithguard/wraithknights for the S10 spam. It can also ram at S10 AP2 no matter how far it moved, which is kind of neat - if not particularly useful. It only has 6 hull points, but you could quite easily have a techmarine or two hide behind it and just crush everything with that massive gun. Of course, strength D will smash it same as it smashes anything else, but there's not much you can do about that. The only super-heavy that doesn't fear SD too much is the Revenant, and it's already much better than anything anyone else can take. Oh, and if you want to keep it cheap, the base tank with armoured ceramite is less than 400 points, which gives you plenty of space to support it even in games of less than 2k.

I don't see the issue as dealing with SHs as much as dealing with the GCs. SHs are pretty easy honestly - melta, gauss, haywire, mass S8 etc can all do a decent job against the SHs in the book. Against the C'tan or Harridan though, what do you do? Just look at the C'tan, as that's the one I have the most experience with: it's T9 W6 3+/4++ and moves 12" per turn (18" with transliminal slide, though it can't charge after that). Even ignoring to hit rolls and assuming you've got AP2 guns, all your stuff is 1/6 chance to wound at best, then 1/2 chance to be saved, then 2/3 chance that any unsaved wounds go through FNP. That means that if you autohit with all your guns and they're all S7 AP2, you still need 108 shots to kill it. Should they be automatically hitting rail cannons, that's still 27 S10 AP1 shots. If you take sniper kroot (which only wound on 6), then you need 216 shots if they're unbuffed. Pretty ridiculous when it will tear your units apart with Str D hellstorms and whichever other power they pick. I have no idea how to deal with them outside of Str D.

Destroyed the Khorne Lord of Skulls w/ Farsight and 3 Fusion Suits deep striking w/o Scatter. It's pretty easy.

 Feasible wrote:
Destroyed the Khorne Lord of Skulls w/ Farsight and 3 Fusion Suits deep striking w/o Scatter. It's pretty easy.

How many models that can bring others with melta along for a non-scatter Deep Strike is there in the game? I can think of two: Dante and Farsight. That's like saying it's pretty easy to kill Ork boyz with a Furioso Dreadnought; you just charge them!

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Feasible wrote:
Destroyed the Khorne Lord of Skulls w/ Farsight and 3 Fusion Suits deep striking w/o Scatter. It's pretty easy.

How many models that can bring others with melta along for a non-scatter Deep Strike is there in the game? I can think of two: Dante and Farsight. That's like saying it's pretty easy to kill Ork boyz with a Furioso Dreadnought; you just charge them!

You are forgetting drop pods, only wıth a 12" scatter you are out of melta range. Or reroll scatter stormtroopers, or legion of the damned, or zoanthrope myscetıc spore drop although these are not non-scatter they are reliable.

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Feasible wrote:
Destroyed the Khorne Lord of Skulls w/ Farsight and 3 Fusion Suits deep striking w/o Scatter. It's pretty easy.

How many models that can bring others with melta along for a non-scatter Deep Strike is there in the game? I can think of two: Dante and Farsight. That's like saying it's pretty easy to kill Ork boyz with a Furioso Dreadnought; you just charge them!

You are forgetting drop pods, only wıth a 12" scatter you are out of melta range. Or reroll scatter stormtroopers, or legion of the damned, or zoanthrope myscetıc spore drop although these are not non-scatter they are reliable.

How am I "forgetting" anything when I specificly mention non-scatter? It's much easier to defend against conventional Deep Strikers (including Drop Pods) because you more or less don't have to bubble-wrap the back of the Super Heavy if you're close enough to the table edge. With non-scatter you've got to make sure that there's absolutely no holes at all for the enemy to exploit, which is harder.

ok we will just roll over and die to them then or drop the conventıonal drop units and take the risk. Although non scatter puts the opponent into a tighter spot, you have to bubble wrap against any scatter.

In our apoc battles, we usually have about 6 to 10 Baneblades. They go down pretty easily by stipping off hull points. These tanks are also not very durable in cc. You have to take precautions that the enemy cannot easily reach them.

I honestly think it's not how well you can alpha strike against it, but rather how do you stand up to super heavy shooting before you go in for the kill. Sure deep striking meltas are ridiculously effective against a 500pt model, but again it is quite hard to accomplish if you don't have anything else supporting them; after all your opponent is bound to have 1000pt of things that can kill these guys, and if the baneblade/eldar titan/cobra or anything like that kills a whole bunch before you can make that drop....what do you do?

And on the other note, Farsight w/3 melta suits won't be able to kill a 9 hull pt model unless I get really lucky. Sure a Farsight bomb works better, but I'd have to sacrifice O'Vesa for that, but I'm not sure if that's ideal.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Feasible wrote:
Destroyed the Khorne Lord of Skulls w/ Farsight and 3 Fusion Suits deep striking w/o Scatter. It's pretty easy.

How many models that can bring others with melta along for a non-scatter Deep Strike is there in the game? I can think of two: Dante and Farsight. That's like saying it's pretty easy to kill Ork boyz with a Furioso Dreadnought; you just charge them!

You are forgetting drop pods, only wıth a 12" scatter you are out of melta range. Or reroll scatter stormtroopers, or legion of the damned, or zoanthrope myscetıc spore drop although these are not non-scatter they are reliable.

How am I "forgetting" anything when I specificly mention non-scatter? It's much easier to defend against conventional Deep Strikers (including Drop Pods) because you more or less don't have to bubble-wrap the back of the Super Heavy if you're close enough to the table edge. With non-scatter you've got to make sure that there's absolutely no holes at all for the enemy to exploit, which is harder.

You can't really be "close to the table edge" with the Khorne Lord of Skulls. You need to move forward. You should also bubble rap SuperHeavies because of ALL deep strikers. Not just Farsight/Dante or even things that can reroll scatter.

Generally for tau you have 2 options.

Long range - hammerheads
Short range - crisis suits with 2x fusion guns

Both are good options, one good against a superheavy that is being completely walled up and protected, the other good vs an exposed super heavy.

How can anyone deepstrike melta it if its simply bubblewrapped?

My plan for my GK/BA list with minimum models is to shunt my dreadknights and use my geavy incinerators to clear out the chaff if necessary, then drop dante with meltas on the heavy.

My nids are taking mawlocs to burrow and come up under the heavy... if it's wrapped and can't be placed it'll just be dead I guess

Necron player, here.
A Royal Court Disco Inferno™ with 1x Despair-tek with Veil and 4x Storm-teks should work okay.
Stands a very decent chance to remove practically any enemy Super Heavy for the paltry cost 160 points. (Turn 1 alpha strike possible, too).
But as someone else pointed out, the REAL problem for us is going to be those Gargantuan Creatures... might just have to stoop to their level and fight fire with fire (at least I won't have to pay a fortune on a new model, as a normal C'tan model can fill the role of the super C'tan in a pinch).

I don't yet own the supplement. Would someone be kind enough to tell me what heavies c:sm have access to?

Cheers

Jamo wrote:
I don't yet own the supplement. Would someone be kind enough to tell me what heavies c:sm have access to?

Cheers

Thunderhawk. Nothing else.

Is that it? Ripped off. Can't afford it.

Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

The super heavies are excellent Deathstar killers. They are the supreme Deathstar. There inclusion would spell the end to the Deathstar army as we know it. It forces current deathstars to divide their power among several other units and not concentrate it in a lone indestructible unit.

A chance to field some fw heavies is pretty cool.

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

Wait, really?
So all FW/IA units are allowed in normal 40k games now without needing express permission from your opponent?