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Painnen wrote:
Can't it start on the stronghold sky pad for like 10pts or something???

I didn't even notice this post at first. Yes, for 5 points extra, the Vampire can start on top of the Skyshield Landing Pad. So basically if the Vampire player is going to go first he can just deploy the Vampire there. Even if he gets seized on it'll have a 4+ invulnerable save and the 4+ Titan-Holo Fields protecting the 12 hull points.

I'd like to see Imperial Guard at some point, since we're not very powerful, and we also have a *ton* of LoW choices.

 jy2 wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:

I think Daemons, as they may add variety, given that they can compete without taking a LoW,
(Case in point, I played a 4k escalation game against crons, with FMC spam daemons... It was close, but I managed the victory )

Daemons are unique in that they actually don't need a LoW unit to be competitive in Escalation. They are probably the only army that is equally strong in both regular 40K as well as Escalation without needing to change their regular TAC list at all. (Well, not entirely....I'd probably throw in 1 Void Shield Generator in there in the case they go 2nd, but that's all I think they need).

If I do a tactica on daemons, I'm actually somewhat conflicted. Aetaos or no Aetaos. That is a tough one.

Personally I prefer An'ggrath, but that might be just my love for hitting things coming through
In case anyone's interested, my 4k list was:

And the crons list I faced:

Any thoughts on either of the lists? I can provide rough details of the game if anyone wants to know?

I vote Renegades and Heretics because then we get Daemons, CSM and IG stuff. But I doubt that's going to happen, so I'll go with Daemons also.

this is a really great thread; very informative. I vote for SM, but CSM would also be interesting to see.

Space marines please.

Will you be doing any forgeworld units? I'd love to hear about the fellblade.

Really appreciate you posting this. It is a great help for newbies like me to be able to get a better grip on how things run and how to get rid of them. Thanks

When/what will you be covering in part 2?

 jy2 wrote:
Now I have a question for the viewers.

After Eldar and Necrons, what army would you like to see next as the focus for my 3rd Escalation Tactica?

Orks, Orks, Orks!
Though, yeah, Daemons, Marines, and Chaos Marines should probably be soon.

Ok, so far I've got:

Chaos Space Marines: 3
Daemons: 3
Imperial Guards: 1
Orks: 1
Space Marines: 3
Tau: 1

 Therion wrote:

Painnen wrote:
Can't it start on the stronghold sky pad for like 10pts or something???

I didn't even notice this post at first. Yes, for 5 points extra, the Vampire can start on top of the Skyshield Landing Pad. So basically if the Vampire player is going to go first he can just deploy the Vampire there. Even if he gets seized on it'll have a 4+ invulnerable save and the 4+ Titan-Holo Fields protecting the 12 hull points.

I believe the 4+ Titan Holo-fields is only if the unit moves. If it hadn't moved, it is hit on a 3+.

So is the flyer on the Skyshield flying or hovering? That's an interesting point to think about.

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Personally I prefer An'ggrath, but that might be just my love for hitting things coming through
In case anyone's interested, my 4k list was:

Spoiler:

Fateweaver
Slaanesh DP w. Wings, greater, greater (so dual lash) armour and ML3
Slaanesh DP w. Wings, greater, greater (so dual lash) armour and ML3
Slaanesh DP w. Wings, greater, greater (so dual lash) armour and ML3

10 plaguebearers
10 plaguebearers
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors
Tzeentch DP w. Wings, greater, greater, armour and ML3
Tzeentch DP w. Wings, greater, greater, armour and ML3
Tzeentch DP w. Wings, grimoire, greater, armour and ML3
Tzeentch DP w. Wings, portalglyph, armour and ML3

Be'Lakor
Tzeentch DP w. Wings, armour, ML3, black mace

10 cultists
10 cultists

And the crons list I faced:

Spoiler:

Overlord w. MSS, res orb
Overlord w. MSS, res orb
4 stormteks & 1 despairtek
4 stormteks & 1 despairtek

10 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe

10 deathmarks in a nightscythe
10 deathmarks in a nightscythe

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

Transcendent C'Tan w. Transliminal Stride, Wave of Withering, Wave of Withering

Any thoughts on either of the lists? I can provide rough details of the game if anyone wants to know?

Those are some nice, beefy lists and very competitive as well. You guys probably aren't running Stronghold Assault yet, but at such a points level, I definitely recommend a Void Relay Network with 3 Void Shield Generators. That's 9 Void Shields to protect your armies.

Jamo wrote:
Space marines please.

Will you be doing any forgeworld units? I'd love to hear about the fellblade.

I'm just going to pick the titan that I would use for my Escalation army, though I can certainly briefly go over the other super-heavy options as well.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
Really appreciate you posting this. It is a great help for newbies like me to be able to get a better grip on how things run and how to get rid of them. Thanks

When/what will you be covering in part 2?

Necrons.

 jy2 wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Personally I prefer An'ggrath, but that might be just my love for hitting things coming through
In case anyone's interested, my 4k list was:

Spoiler:

Fateweaver
Slaanesh DP w. Wings, greater, greater (so dual lash) armour and ML3
Slaanesh DP w. Wings, greater, greater (so dual lash) armour and ML3
Slaanesh DP w. Wings, greater, greater (so dual lash) armour and ML3

10 plaguebearers
10 plaguebearers
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors
Tzeentch DP w. Wings, greater, greater, armour and ML3
Tzeentch DP w. Wings, greater, greater, armour and ML3
Tzeentch DP w. Wings, grimoire, greater, armour and ML3
Tzeentch DP w. Wings, portalglyph, armour and ML3

Be'Lakor
Tzeentch DP w. Wings, armour, ML3, black mace

10 cultists
10 cultists

And the crons list I faced:

Spoiler:

Overlord w. MSS, res orb
Overlord w. MSS, res orb
4 stormteks & 1 despairtek
4 stormteks & 1 despairtek

10 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe
5 warriors in a night scythe

10 deathmarks in a nightscythe
10 deathmarks in a nightscythe

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

Transcendent C'Tan w. Transliminal Stride, Wave of Withering, Wave of Withering

Any thoughts on either of the lists? I can provide rough details of the game if anyone wants to know?

Those are some nice, beefy lists and very competitive as well. You guys probably aren't running Stronghold Assault yet, but at such a points level, I definitely recommend a Void Relay Network with 3 Void Shield Generators. That's 9 Void Shields to protect your armies.

Thank you
Yeah neither of us have the stronghold book, and don't plan on getting it either, so have no way of accessing the rules/points... :(
But I agree, from what I've heard, the lists, and in particular the necrons, would benefit from shields...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*UPDATE*
I have *ahem* acquired the book...
Void shields are cool...

Please do Tau!!! I would also like to see IG at some point, but count my vote for Tau.

Tau, definitely tau!
I would love to see DE as well.

Ok, guys and gals, my 2nd Escalation Tactica is out:


JY2’S ESCALATION TACTICA, PART II – NECRONS


I've decided to add a Poll to that thread where you can vote for the next tactica. So head on over there and please vote for the Army(ies) that you would most like to see a tactica for next.

First off, great tactica that fully covers the way to go about fitting a SH into an Eldar list whilst still keeping in competitive and able to score.

My question however is about the use of the Forgeworld FAQ'd models in Escalation. I figured posting it here would be the most logical as Eldar have many more Lord of War options than Necrons. Currently, the Escalation book only lists the Revenant as the LoW option for Eldar. In order to use the other LoW options in the Forgeworld FAQ in a tournament, would the tournament have to accept both Escalation rules and Forgeworld models?

In other words, just because Forgeworld says it's ok to use their models, it doesn't mean GW says it's ok, right?

Thanks again for the great tactica (and the Crons one) and I look forward to more educational reads!

 djm55 wrote:
First off, great tactica that fully covers the way to go about fitting a SH into an Eldar list whilst still keeping in competitive and able to score.

My question however is about the use of the Forgeworld FAQ'd models in Escalation. I figured posting it here would be the most logical as Eldar have many more Lord of War options than Necrons. Currently, the Escalation book only lists the Revenant as the LoW option for Eldar. In order to use the other LoW options in the Forgeworld FAQ in a tournament, would the tournament have to accept both Escalation rules and Forgeworld models?

In other words, just because Forgeworld says it's ok to use their models, it doesn't mean GW says it's ok, right?

Thanks again for the great tactica (and the Crons one) and I look forward to more educational reads!

Right now, GW is so messed up with its policies that I think you're going to have to look at it on a tournament-by-tournament basis. Basically, GW is saying that everything is official - both Escalation, Forgeworld and Forgeworld-approved Escalation units. However, that's just not going to work in tournament play. In regular games, I'd say to let your opponent know as a courtesy but be prepared if he doesn't want to play against it.

As far as tournaments go, frankly, I don't think TO's are going to allow Escalation into their tournaments. The ones that do will probably make it a separate event, like what Adepticon did with the Championships and the Gladiator events. As for an Escalation integrated tournaments, I don't think we will see that anytime soon. Tournaments have started to accept limited FW but letting Destroyer weaponry into normal games just throws any semblance of balance out the window. Just check with the specific tournament you are interested in goint to to see if they will be running an Escalation-allowed tournament or not. Don't assume that just because GW says Escalation is now part of the game that all tournaments will follow. After all, what the hell has GW done for the tournament scene anyways....other than to make TO lives harder with all the new stuff coming out with little or no regards for playtesting and game balance.

Seems everyone wants the titan but I really think a more balanced approach better in escalation. I have played this list twice with good success ...

Lynx
Autarch, Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Fusion Gun, Lance, Banshee Mask
5x 3 Windrider Jetbike
6x Windrider Jetbikes, Shuriken Cannon
2x Nightwing Interceptor
3 Hornets, 2 Pulse Lasers
2x 3 War Walkers, Scatterlaser, Bright Lance
Fire Prism, Holo-Fields
Void Shield Generator, 3 Shields

Couple of points ... using the Lynx's flyer mode to go off the table and the return and fire away is really good. It gives you a chance to survive longer. With the hornets, interceptors and lynx I've managed to handle opposing SHs and even FGMCs fairly well. Pulse lasers, bright lances and D weapons are great equalizers. Void Shield has also been quite useful.

Where would I find the rules for the nightwing?

Aeronautica

 felixcat wrote:

Seems everyone wants the titan but I really think a more balanced approach better in escalation. I have played this list twice with good success ...

Lynx
Autarch, Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Fusion Gun, Lance, Banshee Mask
5x 3 Windrider Jetbike
6x Windrider Jetbikes, Shuriken Cannon
2x Nightwing Interceptor
3 Hornets, 2 Pulse Lasers
2x 3 War Walkers, Scatterlaser, Bright Lance
Fire Prism, Holo-Fields
Void Shield Generator, 3 Shields

Couple of points ... using the Lynx's flyer mode to go off the table and the return and fire away is really good. It gives you a chance to survive longer. With the hornets, interceptors and lynx I've managed to handle opposing SHs and even FGMCs fairly well. Pulse lasers, bright lances and D weapons are great equalizers. Void Shield has also been quite useful.

Balanced is always better IMO and most titans aren't so bad. The problem comes up when you go up against titans with multiple D weapons, like a Revenant or a Warhound. Those are the types of Escalation armies that, when built properly, tends to dominate.

BTW, I like your list. It is a very good TAC build and I can see it doing well in Escalation. It should do well against the majority on the Escalation armies out there. Eldar is definitely one army that remains as strong in Escalation as they are in regular 40K.

Eldar is definitely one army that remains as strong in Escalation as they are in regular 40K.

Most certainly. Eldar have so many options in escalation and stronghold and field competent lists from 1500+ without missing a beat. Having access to great escalation units and having access to bikes as troops is huge. Only Necs are really as balanced, imho, for both but I think Eldar trumps them.

Well, Eldar certainly has arguably the best titans for Escalation. As to who trumps who, they are about neck-to-neck. One of Revdar's arguably biggest counters is necron flyer-spam in Escalation. As for regular 40K, let's just say my crons haven't lost to Eldar yet.

 jy2 wrote:
Well, Eldar certainly has arguably the best titans for Escalation. As to who trumps who, they are about neck-to-neck. One of Revdar's arguably biggest counters is necron flyer-spam in Escalation. As for regular 40K, let's just say my crons haven't lost to Eldar yet.

Have you played against anything other then a Seer Council yet?

 djones520 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Well, Eldar certainly has arguably the best titans for Escalation. As to who trumps who, they are about neck-to-neck. One of Revdar's arguably biggest counters is necron flyer-spam in Escalation. As for regular 40K, let's just say my crons haven't lost to Eldar yet.

Have you played against anything other then a Seer Council yet?

Yes, I have. I've only played against the seer council once since the new Eldar codex came out, but I've played against Grant's 6E old Seer Council Deldar a couple of times (back when Fortune was a guarantee). The old Eldar army is just as nasty because Fortune was guaranteed and the 2nd Farseer can then roll on the Telepathy powers to try to get Invisibility or Terrify. With the new Eldar, you'd be lucky to even get Fortune by having both farseers roll on the Runes of Fate powers. This usually leaves them with no rolls on Telepathy unless they get super lucky and get Fortune early. BTW, Terrify is the bane to my wraithwing necrons.

I've also played against GT-winner Mortetvie and his Eldau (Eldar + Tau) 3 times. So far, my experiences with Eldar - and keep in mind that this is only anecdotal - is that they are tough to beat but not quite as tough as Tau. Tau is the army that has consistently given my crons the most trouble so far (though I have yet to lose to them either).

Interesting observation. I have read the listing at torrentoffire and other sites that print winning percentages for each army. Currently it seems Tau are the number one army, Eldar is second and Necrons and Daemons follow up. Escalation of course, and stronghold are bound to have different results but there have not been enough tournaments yet to crunch meaning ful numbers. I have only played Eldar and Daemons in Escalation. Daemons have a rough time against Necrons and Eldar - their only escalation units are FGMCs and they at most will add a void shield generator to the mix. I have read your Necrons thread and in my two games against Necs the pylons were the greatest threat I faced from Necrons - the C'Tan is nasty but pylons destroy my lists.

Like I said, my rankings of the armies are more anecdotal than based on hard data. They are mainly based on my own experiences and philosophies on how the armies match up. They don't take into account the popularity of the armies in tournament play and what high-level players currently prefer to play in tournaments.

As for Escalation, Tau got knocked down a peg or two due to lackluster Lords of War units. Moreover, their really good units - riptides and broadsides - are elitist units that are really hurt by Destroyer weaponry so their strengths in regular 40K actually become liabilities in Escalation play, at least against armies with Destroyer weaponry. The Pylon is a very good Lord of War unit. You can definitely make just as good a necron army with a Pylon as you can with a C'tan.

I watch your batreps closely Jy2 and indeed the choices high-level players make also make results difficult to use as conclusive proof of what is actually strongest. I played this 1500 list yesterday against Necs with pylon ...

Lord of Fate: Aetaos’rau’keres, Greater Daemon of Tzeentch - 999
HQ: Be'Lakor - 350
Troops: 10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle - 90
Troops: 4 Nurgling Bases - 60
(1500)

I had to start my big guy in reserve and hope to weather turn one with Be'Lakor and nurglings in BLOS. The match was fun and between the Necs ability to safeguard troops in Scythes and Aetaos' spawning of horrors it was actually closer than I expected (I admit to having lost turn five - if i had another turn I could possibly have spawned horrors and won the match).

And yes I have all the models, lol.
http://pheelixkat.imgur.com/all/

On the subject of Aetaos, I feel that he's been greatly nerfed in the new edition. I like his shooty powers much, much better in the previous edition.


BTW, you can find a photo of my count-as Aetaos here.


I think I will give the Pylon a go the next time I run Necrons in Escalation.

yep - the Staff is okay but not game changing in Apoc and his other shooting powers lack range. But he is meant to be in cc. On another note Jy2 - what do you think od shadow spectres and irrilyth ... no use in escalation? haywire seems pretty decent