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LightKing wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Sister shoves melta down primarch throat and pulls the trigger= fething LAVA down his throat= primarch dead. (the thing is, shed never get that close.
Sister and primarch both have meltas= primarch, cause he's faster (by alot)
Sister and primarch both have CCW = dead sister, cause he's stronger, faster.
Sister has CCW = primarch still wins.

that's what I been trying to say, even in a melta vs. melta fight....the primarch still has vastly superior reflexes, strength and speed then a sister


Automatically Appended Next Post:
now what about this....... Magnus vs. Palpatine

Psyker ability vs. The Force

Magnus can stop time. While Palps can open Force Storms capable of ripping apart fleets- Magnus simply is more powerful. Palps is good, but not comparable to the strongest psykers in W40K like Magnus, the Emperor, and Eldrad. He'd be on par with an Alpha Pysker though, possible Alpha Plus.

Also, for the Force and the Warp, equivalency is normally used.

Eh, stopping time isn't something that's exclusive to Magnus. It's something that primaris psykers are capable of as well, according to DH:Ascension.

People aren't denying that Primarchs are powerful, genius. Just that a lucky shot can kill anything. But if you want to keep arguing with people who bring this up, by all means.

 Melissia wrote:
Eh, stopping time isn't something that's exclusive to Magnus. It's something that primaris psykers are capable of as well, according to DH:Ascension.

I don't think that he was disputing that or making that argument, though.

Though most possibly can't do it at the scale Magnus can, which is planetary.

 Melissia wrote:
Eh, stopping time isn't something that's exclusive to Magnus. It's something that primaris psykers are capable of as well, according to DH:Ascension.

I know. He's simply vastly more powerful than human psykers and Palps wouldn't have time to get off a force storm to kill Magnus without killing himself in the process due to the storm being danger close. And we also know that he doesn't really have good control over them, considering he lost a body that way once.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that psykers are massively more powerful than Jedi.

 Melissia wrote:
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that psykers are massively more powerful than Jedi.

Yeah, there's only a couple Jedi and Sith comparable to the uber-high end human psykers, but there's none I know of even close to the GEOM or Magnus. Of course, there's Nihilus, but he's weird and a no-limits fallacy.

Meh, Nihilus was still nothing compared to a primaris psyker (ignoring how weak they are on the tabletop, which doesn't represent them well at all).

 Melissia wrote:
Meh, Nihilus was still nothing compared to a primaris psyker (ignoring how weak they are on the tabletop, which doesn't represent them well at all).

Well, he did permakill a planet by speaking a single word. The way he's funky is that he actually gets more lethal the greater in power his opponent is.

 Melissia wrote:
Meh, Nihilus was still nothing compared to a primaris psyker (ignoring how weak they are on the tabletop, which doesn't represent them well at all).

Uh, I seriously doubt your average primaris psyker can destroy worlds to feed their power and lift starships from gravity wells.

their isn't any regualar human psyker as powerful as Magnus besides the emperor...the only argument would be malcador, but even then, he got roasted on the golden throne

 Melissia wrote:
Meh, Nihilus was still nothing compared to a primaris psyker (ignoring how weak they are on the tabletop, which doesn't represent them well at all).

I always found Sion the more interesting of the pair. Nihilus was the emptiness consumed by hunger, while Sion embraced pain to survive. But both of them pale in comparison to Traya. Damn, I need to play that game again... with the restoration mod.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Meh, Nihilus was still nothing compared to a primaris psyker (ignoring how weak they are on the tabletop, which doesn't represent them well at all).

I always found Sion the more interesting of the pair. Nihilus was the emptiness consumed by hunger, while Sion embraced pain to survive. But both of them pale in comparison to Traya. Damn, I need to play that game again... with the restoration mod.

Nihilus is a great character. The problem is that they didn't build upon it, because Nihilus' background would be superb considering it'd be the king of tragedies in Star Wars and nigh impossible to screw up. He's pretty much the definition of the woobie, destroyer of worlds trope considering it's a long fall to end up a Wound, and literally lost everything.

You know, it's possible that the stories of primarchs not being killed by huge weapons are just tall tales based on things they actually did. Like, the story of Lorgar surviving a plasma blast was actually just an incident where he was in the vicinity of a huge plasma blast, managed to live by some miracle and his "sons" aggrandized the tale to make him look better. Guilliman may have just been spaced as a breach was opened up in his ship and managed to live despite the length of time spent in vacuum. People tend to stretch the facts as stories are told and retold.

Personally, I think a Conscript could kill a Primarch if he got a good hit off with a Plasma Cannon. It's just that the Primarchs are so good at what they do that it would never happen to them with a little bit of luck.

Either that or the Primarchs really are that tough and this setting is even more shallow than I thought.

a Primaris psyker is no where near Magnus level

come on now

LightKing wrote:
a Primaris psyker is no where near Magnus level

come on now

? When did anyone say that? Lightking I think you need to read through the thread a little more thoroughly before you post, it seems like you're deliberately trying to extend your thread's life by posting nonsensical arguments against things that no one has raised.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Meh, Nihilus was still nothing compared to a primaris psyker (ignoring how weak they are on the tabletop, which doesn't represent them well at all).

I always found Sion the more interesting of the pair. Nihilus was the emptiness consumed by hunger, while Sion embraced pain to survive. But both of them pale in comparison to Traya. Damn, I need to play that game again... with the restoration mod.

Nihilus is a great character. The problem is that they didn't build upon it, because Nihilus' background would be superb considering it'd be the king of tragedies in Star Wars and nigh impossible to screw up. He's pretty much the definition of the woobie, destroyer of worlds trope considering it's a long fall to end up a Wound, and literally lost everything.

The idea of Nihilus is interesting, and it is what makes him so compelling, despite Nihilus playing a relatively minor role in the story. He's easily the most dangerous person in the game, but you only hear whispers of the destruction he brought, only get a taste of his power in the form of the Assassins. And if you weren't also a cypher for Force Users, Telos would have been annihilated. I found that interesting, how your own character's past was tied to the villains. You voluntarily cut yourself off from the force to survive, Nihilus chose to consume those around him, and Sion embraced pain. Malachor V did a number on the survivors.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Meh, Nihilus was still nothing compared to a primaris psyker (ignoring how weak they are on the tabletop, which doesn't represent them well at all).

I always found Sion the more interesting of the pair. Nihilus was the emptiness consumed by hunger, while Sion embraced pain to survive. But both of them pale in comparison to Traya. Damn, I need to play that game again... with the restoration mod.

Nihilus is a great character. The problem is that they didn't build upon it, because Nihilus' background would be superb considering it'd be the king of tragedies in Star Wars and nigh impossible to screw up. He's pretty much the definition of the woobie, destroyer of worlds trope considering it's a long fall to end up a Wound, and literally lost everything.

The idea of Nihilus is interesting, and it is what makes him so compelling, despite Nihilus playing a relatively minor role in the story. He's easily the most dangerous person in the game, but you only hear whispers of the destruction he brought, only get a taste of his power in the form of the Assassins. And if you weren't also a cypher for Force Users, Telos would have been annihilated. I found that interesting, how your own character's past was tied to the villains. You voluntarily cut yourself off from the force to survive, Nihilus chose to consume those around him, and Sion embraced pain. Malachor V did a number on the survivors.

Certainly a better entanglement of characters than some of the other fluff for Star Wars. After Dark Empire, palps seems more like a lost Dungeons and Dragons wizard.

Does anyone else get the feeling that LightKing is our Khornate Psyker of the month?

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
Does anyone else get the feeling that LightKing is our Khornate Psyker of the month?

Aye. One attempting to find a use for the golden fleece.

 Melissia wrote:
LightKing PMed me with this bizarre, out of the blue assertion (with no provocation form my part) about how Primarchs can't be beaten by anyone.

I responded by asserting that anyone who can land a headshot with a meltagun will kill a primarch in a single blow, just like they would kill anyone else. Firepower is, after all, the great equalizer. It doesn't matter how tough you are when you're being vaporized.

Ha ha ha... He did the same to Troike and me in the "marines=sisters" thread. I guess he is upgrading his troll power.

I answered him in the topic, eventually leading to this conversation:

It is somehow funny, yet still a pity.
This threads are going sillier by the day. I blame the title. If it were "Can a human or a Marine defeat a Primarch?" there could be a chance. But, the way it is presented, and giving the tendency of LightKing to put words in other people´s mouths, this is troll territory, and worth nothing.

Don´t feed the troll.

 da001 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
LightKing PMed me with this bizarre, out of the blue assertion (with no provocation form my part) about how Primarchs can't be beaten by anyone.

I responded by asserting that anyone who can land a headshot with a meltagun will kill a primarch in a single blow, just like they would kill anyone else. Firepower is, after all, the great equalizer. It doesn't matter how tough you are when you're being vaporized.

Ha ha ha... He did the same to Troike and me in the "marines=sisters" thread. I guess he is upgrading his troll power.

I answered him in the topic, eventually leading to this conversation:

Spoiler:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 da001 wrote:

LightKing wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 da001 wrote:

 Troike wrote:

LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

And why did you send me a PM accusing me of saying that a Sister would beat him 1 on 1? Where did I say that?

Yeah he did the same to me too...You know what? There I go:

LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

No way! Seriously?? LOL
A mere primarch defeating a Sister of Battle in close combat!?! Preposterous! I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch??

No way a sissy like Magnus could take on a Sister of Battle 1 on 1. At least not in close combat.
No. Way.

You think THAT'S bad? Can you imagine what would happen if Magnus fought a grot? Poor guy would just get curb stomped.

lol are you guys serious? Magnus would destroy a sister

Oh come on. Of course I am super serious. Sisters are trained since birth, have Power Armour and Bolters, and they specialize in killing psykers.

And what is Magnus? A [/b]psyker[b]. No. Chance. He will never make it into close combat. And even if he manages to get there... then what? Try to get through her Power Armour? Hilarious.

Against a grot it would be a similar situation. While Magnus has psy-powers and stuff like that, the sneaky abilities of the grot will allow it to get into close combat... and then it is game over for Magnus totally. And even if he manages to detect the grot, its sheer will-power will protect him against everything a primarch can use.

LightKing wrote:

Guilliaman tanked a shot from a starship and surived floating in space without a helmet

And Sister Macarena killed every single member of the Maximus Pious Chapter of the Space Marines (1000 Astartes in full gear) armed only with a wooden spear, and then used a Warhound Titan to seriously wound a grot. Sure the grot eventually dismembered her, but she wounded it.

She didn't even pilot the Warhound. She just picked up and dropped it on the grot. Like a titan sized nuke.

It is somehow funny, yet still a pity.
This threads are going sillier by the day. I blame the title. If it were "Can a human or a Marine defeat a Primarch?" there could be a chance. But, the way it is presented, and giving the tendency of LightKing to put words in other people´s mouths, this is troll territory, and worth nothing.

Don´t feed the troll.

That was a very funny read - thanks

I truely loved this line:

I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch??

might have to change my sig

That would be a privilege for me, Mr Morden

As for the topic... no, a Canoness is nowhere near as powerful as a Primarch. But she is one of the best trained and best equipped unmodified human warriors you can come across, capable of giving the average (not Calgar) SM Chapter Master a run for his money in a stand-up fight.

If the Primarch is otherwise occupied (slaughtering his way through a squad of SoB, for example) the Canoness might get in one good shot with her Inferno Pistol.

And as for other topics, I thought Sangiunus was regarded as the best duelist and swordsman of them all? Horus only killed him thanks to the massive Chaos boons he'd received.

Oh man.... How many of these "who is stronger, X or Y" threads are we gonna get? I mean, at least put it in one thread. Even better, use correct punctuation in the titles!

Lucarikx

 TheCustomLime wrote:
You know, it's possible that the stories of primarchs not being killed by huge weapons are just tall tales based on things they actually did. Like, the story of Lorgar surviving a plasma blast was actually just an incident where he was in the vicinity of a huge plasma blast, managed to live by some miracle and his "sons" aggrandized the tale to make him look better. Guilliman may have just been spaced as a breach was opened up in his ship and managed to live despite the length of time spent in vacuum. People tend to stretch the facts as stories are told and retold.

Personally, I think a Conscript could kill a Primarch if he got a good hit off with a Plasma Cannon. It's just that the Primarchs are so good at what they do that it would never happen to them with a little bit of luck.

Either that or the Primarchs really are that tough and this setting is even more shallow than I thought.

Why would that make it shallow?

Some of the best stories ever told (The classic and Norse mythologies of old, All Star Superman, etc.) involve super powerful characters doing super powerful things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LightKing wrote:
a Primaris psyker is no where near Magnus level

come on now

No one said that.

Do you even read people's posts?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Oh i get it, you really should remove the question mark and change is to Isn't in the thread title. You obviously only want people to agree with you, and will ignore other peoples opinions no matter what we say. I simply don;t like Primarchs in general, they are far to powerful. Guilliman being out in space and not dieing is ridiculous, his blood would expand in his vains and his head would explode, but aparantly plot armour also effects vains.

Believe the Sus-an Membrane implant allows SMs to survive in the vacuum of space. Don't see why a Primarch wouldn't have this as well.

I like to believe that the Primarch's are nigh unbeatable except by each other and acts of the Dark Gods or the false emperor. Other gods would probably kill them too, a 100% C'tan or the whole Khaine. Other mortals I don't believe stand a chance. This isn't because they are invulnerable to a meltagun to the face, but because they're so good at battle/fighting this type of war that the chances of them ever getting caught by said melta to the face are too small. The chance is there yes, but will it happen in foreseeable future (if they were around)? I don't think so. Given infinite time, anything is possible though, 4 out of the 18 were laid low by mortals - Cruze (on purpose I believe), Lion, Guiliman and Dorne (though I think he was retconed to have vanished except for his hands).

The Primarchs would be not lost or unattainable in both setting and gameplay if they could be defeated by mortals. My reasoning at least.

Edit: all that said, no a Canoness would probably never defeat a Primarch, even if they battled a million times. Maybe a billion though

 Melissia wrote:
LightKing PMed me with this bizarre, out of the blue assertion (with no provocation form my part) about how Primarchs can't be beaten by anyone.

I responded by asserting that anyone who can land a headshot with a meltagun will kill a primarch in a single blow, just like they would kill anyone else. Firepower is, after all, the great equalizer. It doesn't matter how tough you are when you're being vaporized.

Incorrect actually. On several occasions Primarchs have survived far worse injuries. Lorgar being shot by a titans plasma blastgun. Twice. Angron being crushed by thousands of tonnes of rubble and surviving unharmed. Guilliame having his head caved in by Lorgars maul. Showed no sign that he even felt it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cold wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Oh i get it, you really should remove the question mark and change is to Isn't in the thread title. You obviously only want people to agree with you, and will ignore other peoples opinions no matter what we say. I simply don;t like Primarchs in general, they are far to powerful. Guilliman being out in space and not dieing is ridiculous, his blood would expand in his vains and his head would explode, but aparantly plot armour also effects vains.

Believe the Sus-an Membrane implant allows SMs to survive in the vacuum of space. Don't see why a Primarch wouldn't have this as well.

I like to believe that the Primarch's are nigh unbeatable except by each other and acts of the Dark Gods or the false emperor. Other gods would probably kill them too, a 100% C'tan or the whole Khaine. Other mortals I don't believe stand a chance. This isn't because they are invulnerable to a meltagun to the face, but because they're so good at battle/fighting this type of war that the chances of them ever getting caught by said melta to the face are too small. The chance is there yes, but will it happen in foreseeable future (if they were around)? I don't think so. Given infinite time, anything is possible though, 4 out of the 18 were laid low by mortals - Cruze (on purpose I believe), Lion, Guiliman and Dorne (though I think he was retconed to have vanished except for his hands).

The Primarchs would be not lost or unattainable in both setting and gameplay if they could be defeated by mortals. My reasoning at least.

Edit: all that said, no a Canoness would probably never defeat a Primarch, even if they battled a million times. Maybe a billion though

I could easily see a transcendent C'tan or Swarmlord or Tyranid bio-creature butchering a Primarch. Especially one of the weaker ones.

The thing is, though, that Primarchs are still made from matter. Organic matter, no less. They may have adamantium-laced bone (even this is doubtful; did they eat regular doses of the stuff while growing up on their individual worlds?) or something, but anything as destructively powerful as even the smallest weapons on a Titan (or indeed, a meltagun) are going to kill them outright unless they have some form of psychic/daemon invulnerable save (Magnus), much less a starship weapon.

I don't care how much of a badass you are, or how genetically modified you are. Your skin/bone/muscle is not possibly tougher than Terminator armour or even remotely on par with a Necron Monolith. Vehicles can be melta-immune because they have specific systems to deal with the heat, and usually very thick, very strong armour. Nothing short of Void Shields are capable of withstanding Strength-D weapons.

I agree with the above line, though; "This isn't because they're invulnerable to a meltagun to the face, but because they're so good at battle/fighting this type of war that the chances of them ever getting caught by said melta to the face are too small". To a degree, anyway. It'd never happen because a Primarch's greatest strength is their plot armour; in reality, such a high-value target would be immediately saturated with all manner of orbital strikes, artillery, and every other available scrap of firepower until nothing remains but atoms.

Personally, I always found Batman Konrad's death to be idiotic and pointless. It completely detracts from the ability of Callidus assassins, and layers on even more emphasis on the mindless butchering of female characters at every possible turn (oh no, my target was actually the Deceiver and I've been eaten, how sad). Not only did she kill him because he let her do it (so really, for all her skill she may as well have been a legless baby playing with a D-Cannon), but he gave specific orders for her to be allowed to leave - which were ignored and she was brutally slaughtered, anyway. Had it been an Eversor, we would have likely been treated to a lovely description of the Eversor's corpse surrounded by the remains of dozens of slaughtered Night Lords, the Night Haunter's lifeless head clutched almost jealously in his bloodied and Neuro-Gauntleted hand. It's not "oooh female characters should never die!", but that the story completely removes all skill on her part. She may as well have not been there at all.

EDIT: Speaking of misogyny, I get the distinct impression that LightKing's argument (judging by the PMs to several people all following the same pattern) revolves not around a Primarch vs a mortal, but a Primarch vs a woman. Just from the repeated mention of Battle-Sisters, specifically. And of course, all of the Primarchs are male...

Ferrus Manus did not survive his head being cut off and Konrad C is dead.

(agree with all that Frozen Ocean wrote about female characters)

They can be killed, just not easy...........