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I read a thread recently about GW missing a trick when they made Mauler & Forge Fiends walkers instead of monstrous creatures and thought I would have a go at switching them over.

Here are my first brainstormed ideas:

Mauler fiend - 125pts

WS 3
BS 3
S 6 (10)
T 6
W 4
I 3
A 2 (+1 for 2 powerfists)
LD 10
SV 3+

Type - Monstrous Creature

Equipment - 2 powerfists (not unwieldy as on an MC)

Options - Lasher tendrils and magma cutters as per codex CSM

May take a 'Daemon of' upgrade at the same points cost and effect as for a Daemon Prince

May upgrade to flesh metal (2+ save) at +30pts

Special Rules - Daemon, Fleet, Fearless (needed now it is an MC), It Will Not Die, Daemon Forge (as C:CSM), Siege Crawler (as C:CSM)

Forge Fiend - 165pts

WS 3
BS 3
S 6
T 6
W 4
I 3
A 2
LD 10
SV 3+

Type - Monstrous Creature

Equipment - 2 hades autocannons

Options - Swap hades autocannons for ectoplasma cannons at no extra cost

May take a third ectoplasma cannon in it's head at + 25 pts (see below now it is an MC)

May take a 'Daemon of' upgrade at the same points cost and effect as for a Daemon Prince

May upgrade to flesh metal (2+ save) at +30pts

Special Rules - Daemon, Fleet, Fearless (needed now it is an MC), It Will Not Die, Daemon Forge (as C:CSM),

Thoughts?

I like the idea, and when compared to Wraithknights and Riptides they should be MCs, not vehicles.

Although if they were MCs in the codex it would be a complete no brainer for your Heavy Support choices. Which is why I think they're walkers.

How many points were you thinking as a base cost? Same as they are now?

I don't think converting an armor 12 vehicle to a T8 MC is fair. Also, these would have a higher T than the Great Unclean one (sans Iron Arm).

If anything, GW gives most MC's T6.

I guess seeing as they have a built in invuln save (unlike the wraithlord I was comparing them to) they should go down to T6 and maybe 4 wounds instead of 3?

With the invuln, it will not die and the fleshmetal upgrade they should be pretty tough to crack.

As for points, I would say the forgefiend should stay the same and maybe a 30-40 pt increase on the mauler fiend?

Pts wise if they are mc should not change at all, they are both vastly overcosted for what they do, throw in mc rule and they feel about right

I guess so Formosa; after all, now they can be wounded by things like bolters and sniper rifles where before they couldn't. This evens out the fact that they can't be one shotted except by force weapons or wraithcannons now.

I would actually consider fielding these.

One problem with the Forgefiend though - MCs can only fire two weapons in their shooting face, thus a third ectoplasma cannon in its mouth would be pointless.

It needs a new special rule basically, allowing it to use it. I'm not 100% down with the 3+ save, but at least you put up fleshmetal as an upgrade, so that really fixes any of my concerns beyond what I just mentioned. Daemon of Tzeentch + fleshmetal would be trololololo powerful though, with 1s rerollable on saving throws (or is it just for inv saves?)

Daemon of Tzeentch + Fleshmetal would indeed be too powerful.

Keeping it at a 3+ would fix the Daemon of Tzeentch problem. I don't know if people would accept the change with out a points increase. The forgefiend would have to be able to fire all weapons or have 2 and a points reduction or keep them the same with an increase on the maulerfiend.

Would a middle ground on the toughness, say T7 be better than the 2+ save?

The Forgefiend would need an additional rule that allows it to fire its 3rd Ectoplasma Cannon.

It needs T7, otherwise it will die to Lasguns.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
It needs T7, otherwise it will die to Lasguns.

Like almost every Tyranid MC...

Btw, why should it be a Daemon of ... instead of having a Mark of ... like almost all other CSM units?

 Hansisaf wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
It needs T7, otherwise it will die to Lasguns.

Like almost every Tyranid MC...

Btw, why should it be a Daemon of ... instead of having a Mark of ... like almost all other CSM units?

No other Walker dies to lasguns, though.

Changing it to a MC should not really affect that.

I am fine with it as a Walker, though.

Give it 'Beast' on top of 'Walker'?

I would be all over this walking death machine! Bur for now mine will just have to sit on the shelf and look sexy.

I mainly went with Daemon of instead of Marks as that is what the soul grinder has so there is a precedent for it.

Do we think Marks are more appropriate?

An I4 Slaaneshi Maulerfiend could be fun but so could a raging Khornate one!

I am concerned that like a lot of existing units the +1 T from the Mark of Nurgle would become the default choice, especially if their base stat goes up to T7 like some are requesting.

I would'nt use them if they where MC's, can be poissoned, ID by Force Weapons, even if fearless would be perfect targets for that Telepathy power that makes models loose fearless.

There is much more drawbacks to be a MC then to be a Walker.

What Fiends need is an Armor 13, like the Soulgrinder, and lashertendrils counts has Assault & Defensifs nades with their usual effect.

And also be Marked/Dedicated/possesed by a Deamon of a particular God.

For Khorne, Prefered ennemy and Rampage sounds good.
Better IWND rolls for Nurgle and his attacks are poissonous 4+
Slaanesh could be a +3 to his moves and +1 init or something...
Tzeentch...well i don't really now about that one...

The obvious would be a 4++ save, but it also could become a Psyker vehicle like GK Dreads, and be able to take a power or get a special power...

Bharring wrote:
Give it 'Beast' on top of 'Walker'?

It allready is...check the Siege Crawler rule...