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The Supreme Court of Canada has struck down the country's anti-prostitution laws in a unanimous decision, and given Parliament one year to come up with new legislation — should it choose to do so.
'It is not a crime in Canada to sell sex for money.'
- Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin, Supreme Court of CanadaIn striking down laws prohibiting brothels, living on the avails of prostitution and communicating in public with clients, the top court ruled Friday that the laws were over-broad and "grossly disproportionate."
"Parliament has the power to regulate against nuisances, but not at the cost of the health, safety and lives of prostitutes," wrote Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin in the 9-0 decision that noted "it is not a crime in Canada to sell sex for money."
■European laws range from criminalizing johns to legalization
The ruling was in response to a court challenge by women with experience in the sex trade, Terri-Jean Bedford, Amy Lebovitch and Valerie Scott that had resulted in an Ontario court ruling that overturned the laws.
The Ontario Court of Appeal later upheld the law against communicating in public, but sided with the lower court in overturning the provisions against living off the avails and keeping a common bawdy house or brothel.
Sex workers advocate Valerie Scott, left, and Terri-Jean Bedford brought the case against Canada's prostitution laws. (Darren Calabrese/Canadian Press)
"These appeals and the cross-appeal are not about whether prostitution should be legal or not. They are about whether the laws Parliament has enacted on how prostitution may be carried out pass constitutional muster. I conclude that they do not," McLachlin wrote.
"I would therefore make a suspended declaration of invalidity, returning the question of how to deal with prostitution to Parliament."
That means the provisions stay in the Criminal Code for the next year while the government decides what to do.
In a statement, Justice Minister Peter MacKay said the government would take the time to decide how to address "this very complex matter."
"We are reviewing the decision and are exploring all possible options to ensure the criminal law continues to address the significant harms that flow from prostitution to communities, those engaged in prostitution and vulnerable persons," his statement said.
MacKay also said there are "a number of other Criminal Code provisions" in place to protect sex-trade workers "and to address the negative effects prostitution has on communities."
The women in the case had argued that the law prevented them from safely conducting their business as sex-trade workers, arguing that hiring bodyguards and drivers, and being able to work in private homes or talk with potential clients in public were important to their safety.
"Now the government must tell Canadians, all consenting adults, what we can and cannot do in the privacy of our home for money or not. And they must write laws that are fair," Bedford told reporters gathered in the foyer of the Supreme Court building in Ottawa on Friday.
One of her co-respondents in the appeal said a new law won't work.
"The thing here is politicians, though they may know us as clients, they do not understand how sex work works," said Scott. "They won't be able to write a half-decent law. It will fail. That's why you must bring sex workers to the table in a meaningful way."
'Sky's not going to fall in'
Scott says new laws should be up to municipalities, not the federal government.
"If the Harper government rewrites laws, they will fail and the next generation of sex workers will be right back here. So let's not be stupid, federal government. Let's do something progressive, actually."
Scott added that "the sky's not going to fall in" with Friday's ruling.
"People said that when women got the right to vote, equal pay, equal rights, and same sex marriage — all of those things, every single one, people said the sky would fall in. It did not. Society is the better for it and society will be the better for sex workers having proper civil and occupational rights."
The women's lawyer, Alan Young, said it was important to understand the ruling affects "one of the most under-enforced laws in the Canadian Criminal Code.
"The fact that people are crying that the law's been invalidated, [they] don't understand that the law's been ineffective and largely just used in a discriminatory way."
"We're not really going to see any change tomorrow. It's going to be business as usual," Young said.
Others condemned the ruling.
"It's a sad day that we've now had confirmed that it's OK to buy and sell women and girls in this country. I think generations to come — our daughters, their granddaughters and on — will look back and say, 'What were they thinking?,'" said Kim Pate, executive director of the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies.
"To say that [prostitution] is a choice when you're talking about the women we work with is to say that in fact it's OK to just exploit them," Pate said.
"We've never seen men criminalized for buying and selling women and girls. We've always seen women criminalized for selling themselves. We absolutely object to the criminalization of women. Our position would not interfere with those women who truly have made their choices."
Worry about 'open season' for prostitution
Don Hutchinson, vice-president and general legal counsel for Evangelical Fellowship of Canada, said his group wants Parliament to come back with a new law that would "criminalize the purchase of sex and provide support services for those who wish to exit the sex trade.
"What we're suggesting is that for the first time in Canada, prostitution would be illegal. The purchase of sexual services or the rental of somebody's body would become illegal," Hutchinson said.
"If there's no replacement legislative scheme, then it's open season in regard to prostitution."
Lebovitch, however, said the decision will help protect sex-trade workers.
"I am shocked and amazed that sex work and the sex work laws that affect our lives on a daily basis will within a year not cause us harm any more."
"It's a huge victory for all the people in Vancouver, all my sisters out there who are going to be safe. It's just a huge, huge victory. I'm so happy," added Lorna Bird of the advocacy group Sex Workers United Against Violence.
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Good, there is nothing inherently wrong with prostitution when it is legalised. When it is illegal however, thats when the bad things happen.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
Grimskul wrote: *sigh* Canada will do anything to tax more won't they? Now with prostitution becoming legal soon we'll get more monies! Wooooo!
I love the comparison with this to the time they allowed women the right to vote....yeah sure, totally same stuff.
Not sure there is a problem with collecting tax revenue from currently illegal industries once they are made legitimate, such as marijuana and in this case, prostitution. With taxation and regulation come quality controls, consistency, safety for distributors and consumers, and a boost to government coffers. If it means alleviating national debts by supplementing that burden with alternative revenue streams instead of further income or sales taxes, I actually applaud the government on its action.
I never understood why prostitution was illegal either. You can sell your body to a corporation as a means to make stamps or something but you can't do it if there's penetration involved? Seems a little weird.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
Seems like prostitution is always going to happen, so having it properly regulated to avoid abuse is a way to minimise the harm it does. It's still a fairly damaging industry though.
Da Boss wrote: It's still a fairly damaging industry though.
Its not. Aspects of it can be damaging, especially if it is unregulated and underground, but if no one is coersed and both parties know exactly what they are doing then I really don't see what harm that it can do. There may be secondary effects (infidelity etc) but that would happen anyway.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
Huzzah! About fething time. So proud to be Canadian right now.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Grimskul wrote: *sigh* Canada will do anything to tax more won't they? Now with prostitution becoming legal soon we'll get more monies! Wooooo!
I love the comparison with this to the time they allowed women the right to vote....yeah sure, totally same stuff.
Not sure there is a problem with collecting tax revenue from currently illegal industries once they are made legitimate, such as marijuana and in this case, prostitution. With taxation and regulation come quality controls, consistency, safety for distributors and consumers, and a boost to government coffers. If it means alleviating national debts by supplementing that burden with alternative revenue streams instead of further income or sales taxes, I actually applaud the government on its action.
the problem stems from the fact that the liberals had us going strong, and managed to give us a strong economy, and the budgetary controls meant that we were in very strong shape. Now that Mr. Harper is in government, we have the wonderful issue of debt all over again. And a lot of it. Apparantly, getting a flock of fighter jetes that we don't have the infrastructure for was important enough to prorogue government twice, lay off people left right and center, while lord knows how many kickbacks their own party-members got. Okay, we know that two clowns ran away with tax payer dollars, and we caught them, but which one of these other management-industry clowns are taking our money? If they legalize this, this isn't going to give us more tax-money to work with, it's going to cost us more because the damn conservatives will just appoint more of their mules into managing this and paying them through the nose.....
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
Da Boss wrote: It's still a fairly damaging industry though.
Its not. Aspects of it can be damaging, especially if it is unregulated and underground, but if no one is coersed and both parties know exactly what they are doing then I really don't see what harm that it can do. There may be secondary effects (infidelity etc) but that would happen anyway.
it really is. There is a certain kind of person who can go into that work and not care, shrug it all off. Think of a physician being assigned to work in a war-zone. Some can handle it and shrug it off. The rest are going to need years of intensive therapy, and will never look at medicne the same way again. The same is true of prostitution, some can do it and roll their shoulders and it's no skin off their back. Everyone else is stuck carrying the scars, mental or physical, through it. Prostitution really does attract the worst all around, but how do you go to get help when it when it's illegal? Heck, even if it's legalized, how do you go get help? Odds are very high that this person is in this line of work out of desperation and they need to make ends meet, so they're not about to pay out-of-pocket for treatment...
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
poda_t wrote: Prostitution really does attract the worst all around, but how do you go to get help when it when it's illegal? Heck, even if it's legalized, how do you go get help? Odds are very high that this person is in this line of work out of desperation and they need to make ends meet, so they're not about to pay out-of-pocket for treatment...
Citation needed. No one is forced into prostitution and no one is forced to continue being a prostitute (if it is legalised and well regulated), if they don't like the job then they can simply go and do something else. In such cuircumstances why would they be suffering mental trauma?
There is a public persception that all prostitutes are drug addicts forced into prostitution to pay for their habit or that they are simply 'fallen women' and while this is true is some cases it is far from universal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/21 09:37:59
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
Palindrome wrote: Citation needed. No one is forced into prostitution and no one is forced to continue being a prostitute (if it is legalised and well regulated), if they don't like the job then they can simply go and do something else. In such cuircumstances why would they be suffering mental trauma?
I'm hoping I'm just misunderstanding you here, but did you really just claim no one's ever forced into prostitution? That's largely what human trafficking's all about, man. Thousands of women are forced into it every year.
I think it was just slightly odd sentence structure Seaward, and that Palindrome was meaning in a society where it is legalised, licensed and well regulated by an adequately functioning body you don't get that sort of effect.
I disagree, I think there will always be an underbelly to a certain extent, where people will be abused and forced to work in things like prostitution. But I also think that the well implemented legalisation of things like this can go a long way to reducing the size and viability of that underbelly, and while it can't remove it entirely it can certainly decrease its effect on innocent people. So the continuation of this underbelly isn't an acceptable reason not to competently legalise something like, as my old avatar used to say, whoring.
(It was Captain Mal. I realise that made little sense without clarifying that)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/21 10:15:10
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
I'm hoping I'm just misunderstanding you here, but did you really just claim no one's ever forced into prostitution?
Did you just read the first half of the first sentence of my post and ignore the rest?
The construction and agricultural industries are also commonly associated with the black labour market (and even outright slavery in a minority of cases) yet they don't have the stigma that prostitution does. While there may well be a legacy of explotation in a fully legalised sex industry it would be much harder to sustain due to its very nature.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
poda_t wrote: Prostitution really does attract the worst all around, but how do you go to get help when it when it's illegal? Heck, even if it's legalized, how do you go get help? Odds are very high that this person is in this line of work out of desperation and they need to make ends meet, so they're not about to pay out-of-pocket for treatment...
Citation needed. No one is forced into prostitution and no one is forced to continue being a prostitute (if it is legalised and well regulated), if they don't like the job then they can simply go and do something else. In such cuircumstances why would they be suffering mental trauma?
There is a public persception that all prostitutes are drug addicts forced into prostitution to pay for their habit or that they are simply 'fallen women' and while this is true is some cases it is far from universal. [/quote
... are you being serious..... there is a wealth of information available on the topics, none of which i can link for you because of the access rights surrounding digital media and my university library. Nobody is forced into it, but people still do it. Like military service. And the prostitute doesn't have to be a drug addict--a fair number of the clients are sure as hell going to be though. Maybe you should pull out your citations showing that it's not as bad as i'm claiming, and maybe i'll find the time afterward to counter you.
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
... are you being serious..... there is a wealth of information available on the topics, none of which i can link for you because of the access rights surrounding digital media and my university library. Nobody is forced into it, but people still do it. Like military service. And the prostitute doesn't have to be a drug addict--a fair number of the clients are sure as hell going to be though. Maybe you should pull out your citations showing that it's not as bad as i'm claiming, and maybe i'll find the time afterward to counter you.
So what you are saying is that prostitution is like joining the military? In many ways I agree with you, its a job that is only really suitable for a certain type of person.
Where would the drug addicts get the funds to pay for prostitutes?
I don't have any citations, which I note neither do you, however this is an area that I do have experience with, can you say the same? If you provide some sources please ensure that they are from countries where prostitution is fully legalised.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/21 18:11:01
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
Grimskul wrote: *sigh* Canada will do anything to tax more won't they? Now with prostitution becoming legal soon we'll get more monies! Wooooo!
I love the comparison with this to the time they allowed women the right to vote....yeah sure, totally same stuff.
Not sure there is a problem with collecting tax revenue from currently illegal industries once they are made legitimate, such as marijuana and in this case, prostitution. With taxation and regulation come quality controls, consistency, safety for distributors and consumers, and a boost to government coffers. If it means alleviating national debts by supplementing that burden with alternative revenue streams instead of further income or sales taxes, I actually applaud the government on its action.
the problem stems from the fact that the liberals had us going strong, and managed to give us a strong economy, and the budgetary controls meant that we were in very strong shape. Now that Mr. Harper is in government, we have the wonderful issue of debt all over again. And a lot of it. Apparantly, getting a flock of fighter jetes that we don't have the infrastructure for was important enough to prorogue government twice, lay off people left right and center, while lord knows how many kickbacks their own party-members got. Okay, we know that two clowns ran away with tax payer dollars, and we caught them, but which one of these other management-industry clowns are taking our money? If they legalize this, this isn't going to give us more tax-money to work with, it's going to cost us more because the damn conservatives will just appoint more of their mules into managing this and paying them through the nose.....
That doesn't really make any sense man. The Liberals did no more or less to run Canada's economy than any other political party would have, and they just happened to be mired in scandal (a lot like what is going on with the Tories right now). Regardless of the successes and failures of either party, it's irrelevant to the tax collection on a soon-to-be legalized industry like prostitution. There is no other way to swing it, it will be a supplementary industry to our tax base and it doesn't matter who the current federal governing party is. I also doubt that the House of Commons will see much internal debate as to the exact policies, pricing, and taxation schemes that will be implemented on the sex industry in Canada, that will be left to other bureaucrats of multiple party affiliations. Besides, if polls are any indication, the current government won't necessarily be in power in 2015.
The UK police did a big prowl before the Olympics and the percentage of women they found who had been forced (in the sense of "trafficked") into prostitution was under 1%.
MarsNZ wrote: To those naysayers that say this legislation will cause the sky to fall in (an there are always some...)
NZ legalised prostitution in 2003, we've experienced no surge in numbers of sex workers, and those in the industry are safer for it.
Many states in Australia also legalized, and similarly the sky never fell in. That said, some of the states that legalized it still have problems with illegal prostitution - mainly because they included to many restrictions and regulations on practice, meaning it was easier for some operations to simply stay outside the law rather than go legit. Reasonable and sensible regulation is the key, to protect sex workers, johns and the community at large.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/22 14:31:35
Looking for a club in Brisbane, Australia? Come and enjoy a game and a beer at Pubhammer, our friendly club in a pub at the Junction pub in Annerley (opposite Ace Comics), Sunday nights from 6:30. All brisbanites welcome, don't wait, check out our Club Page on Facebook group for details or to organize a game. We play all sorts of board and war games, so hit us up if you're interested.
Pubhammer is Moving! Starting from the 25th of May we'll be gaming at The Junction pub (AKA The Muddy Farmer), opposite Ace Comics & Games in Annerley! Still Sunday nights from 6:30 in the Function room Come along and play Warmachine, 40k, boardgames or anything else!
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