Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been watching star treks and in voyager Tuvok seems to mind meld with pretty much everyone he meets. Multible mind melds, self melds, group melds, mind meldspree and he even gets assimilated by borg. I remember how picard melded with spock's dad and it was a big deal leaving picard psychologically messed up (and that was easy compared to borg assimilation).

Seriously whats up with Tuvok?

Three words: Star Trek Voyager

I understand your situation. I've been there before.

Here's how you fix it: Watch the first episode of a season, and then watch the LAST episode of the season. Move on to the next season and repeat.

You catch every thing that matters, and you minimize the number of times you have to go to the interest and ask "WTF?"

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Three words: Star Trek Voyager

With three more; is badly written. That's 6

Voyager could have been good if every episode was not one of the following:

1) OH how are we going to get home. Hey look this alien race has some new tech that will help us get home faster. YAY!!!

2) Janeway: I will not violate the prime directive
Crew: but it gets us home faster
Janeway: Violate the prime directive right now

3) Booooooorrrrrrrggggggg (got nerfed all to hell)
(seriously how the feth can 1 tiny ship, with limitless crew I might add, waltz through the borg empire and win)

 FirePainter wrote:
Voyager could have been good if every episode was not one of the following:

1) OH how are we going to get home. Hey look this alien race has some new tech that will help us get home faster. YAY!!!

2) Janeway: I will not violate the prime directive
Crew: but it gets us home faster
Janeway: Violate the prime directive right now

3) Booooooorrrrrrrggggggg (got nerfed all to hell)
(seriously how the feth can 1 tiny ship, with limitless crew I might add, waltz through the borg empire and win)

Honestly what is wrong with this?

1. If voyager never found anything usefull you would watching a show where a ship goes through empty space.

2. This never happens.

3. They got through because borg let them. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708968/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708969/

 FirePainter wrote:

2) Janeway: I will not violate the prime directive
Crew: but it gets us home faster
Janeway: Violate the prime directive right now

If anything, this was more like:

Janeway: I will not violate the prime directive
Crew: but it ends the series faster!
Janeway: I will not violate the prime directive!
Crew: :(

2. This never happens.

Not in a single episode no, but Janeway constantly jumps back and forth between adhering to the prime directive, bending it, and completely ignoring it, seemingly for no reason other than the convenience of the plot. EDIT: If you doubt this just ask Kate Mulgrew herself because she complained about it all the time.

Voyager has the poorest quality writing of all the original Star Trek titles in part due to good old executive meddling. Some people make it out as a terrible show, which it wasn't. Objectively it was a good all around sci-fi adventure, and probably the most like TOS imo. However the series was also by far the most liberal with characters and plot and right on the heels of the very dark and well put together DS9.

It gave us more Borg time, any Borg time is good in my book.

Can definitely say that The Doctor was a very noteable highlight for the series. Hate Voyager all you want, but Robert Picardo is the best artifical life form to appear on screen since Data imo. He might not have been as deep or well thought out as others, but he was just a joy to watch.

 illuknisaa wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
Voyager could have been good if every episode was not one of the following:

1) OH how are we going to get home. Hey look this alien race has some new tech that will help us get home faster. YAY!!!

2) Janeway: I will not violate the prime directive
Crew: but it gets us home faster
Janeway: Violate the prime directive right now

3) Booooooorrrrrrrggggggg (got nerfed all to hell)
(seriously how the feth can 1 tiny ship, with limitless crew I might add, waltz through the borg empire and win)

Honestly what is wrong with this?

1. If voyager never found anything usefull you would watching a show where a ship goes through empty space.

2. This never happens.

3. They got through because borg let them. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708968/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708969/

Scorpion was probably the best episode for the entire series I will give you that but still. The series had great moments and the doctor is one of m favorite characters across all the shows but in my opinion Voyager did not measure up to TOS or DS9 or TNG.

I liked Voyager........

I did not like the end of Voyager. That show wraps up so horribly. The rest of the series was alright.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I liked Voyager........

As did I. I just feel that the show as a whole was not as good as the other star treks

 daedalus wrote:
I understand your situation. I've been there before.

Here's how you fix it: Watch the first episode of a season, and then watch the LAST episode of the season. Move on to the next season and repeat.

You catch every thing that matters, and you minimize the number of times you have to go to the interest and ask "WTF?"

It might be worthwhile watching the middle 2 episodes of the season as well. - They're sometimes half decent.
But yeah, the main reason to watch Voyager is Robert Picardo, then Jeri Ryan later on in the series. IMO, at least.

DS9 is still my favourite Trek, though Picard remains my best captain.

Hey... Why is that can of worms open?

Everyone knows that the greatest Trek captain was General Martok

 LordofHats wrote:
Can definitely say that The Doctor was a very noteable highlight for the series. Hate Voyager all you want, but Robert Picardo is the best artifical life form to appear on screen since Data imo. He might not have been as deep or well thought out as others, but he was just a joy to watch.

That is a very good point, The Dr. was a very good/consistent character throughout the series.

ST: Voyager was an abomination of a series with a few decent actors trying their best to salvage something from the wreck the screenwriting constantly left behind.

Even if you disregard it's supposed to be part of the Star Trek universe, it is annoying to see how the writers managed to miss literally EVERY single chance to turn their occasionally interesting ideas into halfway intelligent stories. I can see how Seven of Nine, Cpt. Janeway or the Doctor as characters find their fans, but I am always baffled that anybody would watch this show for its own merits.

So, in short: Disregard everything the other Trek series tell you about Vulcans, because you probably know more about them than the writers did. Also, disregard everything you ever learn about Tuvok, because the writers never remembered what they wrote about any particular character a week ago. Then, and only then, will anything a ST: Voyager character does ever make sense.

Janeway... WORST CHARACTER EVER! Micromanaging bitch from hell.

If the show had really wanted to capture me, they would have mutinied halfway through the show, dumped her on some Kazon world, and taken back one of the 246 ways they could have gotten home without her stonewalling them.

 Compel wrote:
DS9 is still my favourite Trek, though Picard remains my best captain.

Ya know, it'll get you cruicified around any hardcore fanbase, but I really liked DS9 too. TOS was my favorite, but that's what I grew up exposed to.

I like DS9 because it was such a stark difference to the others. It was Babylon 5, except I wanted to watch it. It also took the goody goody Federation and revealed a few parts of it that were unseemly and dark, which was pretty cool.

 daedalus wrote:

 Compel wrote:
DS9 is still my favourite Trek, though Picard remains my best captain.

Ya know, it'll get you cruicified around any hardcore fanbase, but I really liked DS9 too. TOS was my favorite, but that's what I grew up exposed to.

I like DS9 because it was such a stark difference to the others. It was Babylon 5, except I wanted to watch it. It also took the goody goody Federation and revealed a few parts of it that were unseemly and dark, which was pretty cool.

DS9 is acknowledged as one of the best by just about everyone.

 Allod wrote:
ST: Voyager was an abomination of a series with a few decent actors trying their best to salvage something from the wreck the screenwriting constantly left behind.

Even if you disregard it's supposed to be part of the Star Trek universe, it is annoying to see how the writers managed to miss literally EVERY single chance to turn their occasionally interesting ideas into halfway intelligent stories. I can see how Seven of Nine, Cpt. Janeway or the Doctor as characters find their fans, but I am always baffled that anybody would watch this show for its own merits.

So, in short: Disregard everything the other Trek series tell you about Vulcans, because you probably know more about them than the writers did. Also, disregard everything you ever learn about Tuvok, because the writers never remembered what they wrote about any particular character a week ago. Then, and only then, will anything a ST: Voyager character does ever make sense.

They really were a fantastic cast of actors. Did you know that Mulgrew and Beltran hate (In italics) each other? Even before the show was filmed they hated each other. Somehow they managed to completely hide it and make it look like something else entirely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 djones520 wrote:

 daedalus wrote:

 Compel wrote:
DS9 is still my favourite Trek, though Picard remains my best captain.

Ya know, it'll get you cruicified around any hardcore fanbase, but I really liked DS9 too. TOS was my favorite, but that's what I grew up exposed to.

I like DS9 because it was such a stark difference to the others. It was Babylon 5, except I wanted to watch it. It also took the goody goody Federation and revealed a few parts of it that were unseemly and dark, which was pretty cool.

DS9 is acknowledged as one of the best by just about everyone.

As time goes on, DS9 becomes more and more remembered as the magnum opus of Star Trek. It took the utopic vision of Rodenberry and cast it into a more realistic light. Many fans didn't like it at the time (myself included) but as the years go by it is more and more recognized as the height of Star Trek and I will always argue that it is and overall it has imo the best cast (though Picard is still imo the most well done captain of them all).

Picard was just the most human. Kirk was so badass as to appear inhuman at times (and thats why we love him). Sisko was an enigma his entire time on screen so while he was awesome he always felt distant which was part of his messianic character. Janeway was poorly written. Picard stands out I think as the ultimate of what we could expect a leader of men to really be like

Every trek fan I have seen or talked to will say something to the effect that either TOS or TNG were their favorites but they really lked DS9 because of the characters and unique story. (who doesn't love Quark and Odo)

DS9 went to places most other treks didn't and focused alot more on the character progression which made it so good imo

Voyager should have been more like the new Battlestar Galactica. A dirty struggle to get home. The episodes 'Year of Hell' was what the series should have been like generally, instead it was all the usual nice cheerful stuff like Next Gen, and the consequences of them being that far from home played little role in the series beyond the occasional mention of them having replicator rations. Had they been brave to do something different then the TV series probably wouldn't have ended on a whimper with Enterprise.

DS9?!

I know Tuvok is pretty trippy but he doesn't even compare to captain profet. Only good part of ds9 is quark and kira's ass. DS9 is basically a soap opera in space.

The issue with voyager is it tries to be tng

DS9 is basically a soap opera in space.

Welcome to Star Trek TOS-Enterprise

Voyager was the first star trek series i ever saw, and it's still the one I've seen the most episodes of. Therefore by the rules of nostalgia I'm required to like it. Same as I prefer the 3 prequel Star Wars movies because they were the first I saw.

I can't help it, that's the rules.

 LordofHats wrote:

They really were a fantastic cast of actors. Did you know that Mulgrew and Beltran hate (In italics) each other? Even before the show was filmed they hated each other. Somehow they managed to completely hide it and make it look like something else entirely.

Nope, didn't know that, so kudos to them.

I do remember though that Mulgrew played Janeway under the premise that she was bi-polar, because that was the only way her character made sense, that Beltran at one point publically vented his frustration with the writers and that Ryan complained she wasn't properly briefed what the Borg were supposed to be like.

It's really a shame that such a professional (I would hesitate to say fantastic, but that's purely a question of personal taste) cast was wasted on that turd of a show.

After DS9, I expected them to further explore the "grittier" part of Star Trek, and Voyager, far from home, with a crew half made up of terrorists/freedom fighters, seemed to fit the bill perfectly. Overarching storylines a la late Next Generation or DS9 would also have lent themselves well to the themes of looking for a way home/conflicts within the crew and a whole new quadrant to explore, with completely new "rules of the game".

What we got was a lame alien of the week-show, just like TOS, only with less charm and a pronounced lack of ripped shirts.

That's why I hate Voyager so very much: Enterprise (the prequel series) was "just" bad. But Voyager, from the premise to the cast, had huge potential, and not only killed it within the first episodes, but proceeded to piss on its corpse for several seasons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Voyager was the first star trek series i ever saw, and it's still the one I've seen the most episodes of. Therefore by the rules of nostalgia I'm required to like it. Same as I prefer the 3 prequel Star Wars movies because they were the first I saw.

I can't help it, that's the rules.

Now I feel really old...

 djones520 wrote:

DS9 is acknowledged as one of the best by just about everyone.

Huh. That's... usually not the response I get when talking about it.

I'll always like The Next Generation, but if I was to go out and actually buy or download a Trek series to watch it again, it would be DS9. It was Star Trek written like Babylon Five.