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BrandonKF wrote: Precisely the same thing that's happened over here, warboss.
No, Brandon, it's not. If someone were to call that forum a deluded human centipede pit filled mostly with folks who sit in small locked rooms because they like the smell of their own farts... and then join there to set them straight about just how bad the game looks currently and how bad the company making it has consistently screwed up so that they get out now before they spend any more money on a massive failure of a project... that would be what's happening here. Eh, whatever, my question was answered (by you), I learned something new, and my point still stands: I don't see any merit in backing that project in its current state.
edit: I did enjoy the hutt butt licking comment though. That made me giggle.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/28 23:21:50
BrandonKF wrote: Precisely the same thing that's happened over here, warboss.
No, Brandon, it's not. If someone were to call that forum a deluded human centipede pit filled mostly with folks who sit in small locked rooms because they like the smell of their own farts... and then join there to set them straight about just how bad the game looks currently and how bad the company making it has consistently screwed up so that they get out now before they spend any more money on a massive failure of a project... that would be what's happening here. Eh, whatever, my question was answered (by you), I learned something new, and my point still stands: I don't see any merit in backing that project in its current state.
I'm sorry, wasn't that precisely what happened in the Kickstarter thread here on Dakka? Yes, yes it was. In spite of Dave coming around and answering questions, in spite of updates being given, in spite of repeated attempts at proving that the company was changing directions.
Honestly, I'm tired of giving long, protracted arguments in favor of Heavy Gear and Dream Pod 9 and whoever to gentlemen who are, largely, not happy with the direction of the game.
You have over 60 pages' worth of these arguments, and mostly the gentlemen who use those arguments from this thread are the ones who are heavily against playing the game in any format.
Such as what John_Hwang decided to make mention of.
Or what Smilodon has repeatedly made mention of (and clearly he continues to monitor the sites as well, for what reason other than to act like a jackass, I don't know).
I'm tired of it. Many of those who are fans are tired of it. Which is why this place has become a long-winded tunnel of empty shouting, and is labeled as being filled with hate.
That's also the reason why those 'like-minded' people don't come here and talk. Because they realize that the Internet is a wide place, and they don't have to interact with you if they don't want to.
Your first impressions are a fether, and this thread is not a great first impression of the Heavy Gear community.
BrandonKF wrote: I'm sorry, wasn't that precisely what happened in the Kickstarter thread here on Dakka? Yes, yes it was. In spite of Dave coming around and answering questions, in spite of updates being given, in spite of repeated attempts at proving that the company was changing directions.
Dave came around to ask for money and the answering of questions was a part of that (not the other way around). There is a different expectation when someone is asking for what also puts bread on your table and a roof over your head, especially when the company has a history as storied as Dp9's compared with just a simple discussion. By and large, folks both here and in the KS thread presented valid concerns that he for the most part addressed as he could. Those concerns may be uncomfortable to address but Dave did at least address most of them. Whether or not the answers stand the test of time (a consistent problem with DP9), only time will tell. That isn't the same thing as slagging a discussion and then joining to stir the pot... and then claiming your initial pretrolling assumptions were true post trolling .
I'm tired of it. Many of those who are fans are tired of it. Which is why this place has become a long-winded tunnel of empty shouting, and is labeled as being filled with hate.
That's also the reason why those 'like-minded' people don't come here and talk. Because they realize that the Internet is a wide place, and they don't have to interact with you if they don't want to.
On that we agree. It's why I stopped posting on the dp9 forums. I got tired of presenting valid concerns along with proof and being told to take it "on faith" and "trust" (the same trust I had extended multiple times and was broken) as if Heavy Gear was a religious cult instead of a business courting my money.
Your first impressions are a fether, and this thread is not a great first impression of the Heavy Gear community.
To be honest, I'm not sure what to make of this part as I don't understand the comment or how it relates to me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/28 23:52:18
BrandonKF wrote: I'm sorry, wasn't that precisely what happened in the Kickstarter thread here on Dakka? Yes, yes it was. In spite of Dave coming around and answering questions, in spite of updates being given, in spite of repeated attempts at proving that the company was changing directions.
Dave came around to ask for money and the answering of questions was a part of that (not the other way around). There is a different expectation when someone is asking for what also puts bread on your table and a roof over your head, especially when the company has a history as storied as Dp9's compared with just a simple discussion. By and large, folks both here and in the KS thread presented valid concerns that he for the most part addressed as he could. Those concerns may be uncomfortable to address but Dave did at least address most of them. Whether or not the answers stand the test of time (a consistent problem with DP9), only time will tell. That isn't the same thing as slagging a discussion and then joining to stir the pot... and then claiming your initial pretrolling assumptions were true post trolling .
I'm tired of it. Many of those who are fans are tired of it. Which is why this place has become a long-winded tunnel of empty shouting, and is labeled as being filled with hate.
That's also the reason why those 'like-minded' people don't come here and talk. Because they realize that the Internet is a wide place, and they don't have to interact with you if they don't want to.
On that we agree. It's why I stopped posting on the dp9 forums. I got tired of presenting valid concerns along with proof and being told to take it "on faith" and "trust" (the same trust I had extended multiple times and was broken) as if Heavy Gear was a religious cult instead of a business courting my money.
Your first impressions are a fether, and this thread is not a great first impression of the Heavy Gear community.
To be honest, I'm not sure what to make of this part as I don't understand the comment or how it relates to me.
As for how it relates to you, it's an observation of what has happened here since the thread was made over a year and a half ago.
As for slagging a discussion, how about we take a long, good, hard look at the treatment of new individuals who have joined this discussion?
Primarily, those who come in hopeful and wanting to make their mark for good for Heavy Gear are offset by the like-minded nay-sayers who ask questions that no fan can readily answer because they are not a company representative. Edit: In addition, most of those who are nay-sayers are older fans who are disgruntled, disenfranchised, or otherwise just not into the game anymore. They have a long, long, storied history with the Pod and with Heavy Gear, and can draw on multiple experiences and/or discussions with which to outright dismiss or ridicule the newcomers.
The company members are not, in any way, shape or form, required to answer every single question and comment, and take every suggestion as a fething gospel, either.
So you have two religions here. The nay-sayers, and the hopefuls.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now, for those of you interested in seeing how Heavy Gear Assault is progressing, I'll gladly give you the link to Jager818's Twitch stream to watch.
Edit: Also, for those of you wanting to ask the developers questions, you can find links on the HGA forums for Teamspeak 3. But I'll find some of those for you anyway and share them here.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/08/29 00:33:33
As for how it relates to you, it's an observation of what has happened here since the thread was made over a year and a half ago.
As for slagging a discussion, how about we take a long, good, hard look at the treatment of new individuals who have joined this discussion?
Primarily, those who come in hopeful and wanting to make their mark for good for Heavy Gear are offset by the like-minded nay-sayers who ask questions that no fan can readily answer because they are not a company representative. Edit: In addition, most of those who are nay-sayers are older fans who are disgruntled, disenfranchised, or otherwise just not into the game anymore. They have a long, long, storied history with the Pod and with Heavy Gear, and can draw on multiple experiences and/or discussions with which to outright dismiss or ridicule the newcomers.
The company members are not, in any way, shape or form, required to answer every single question and comment, and take every suggestion as a fething gospel, either.
No, they don't have to. But it doesn't help them if they ignore the obvious troubling ones either. And, yes, the thread has evolved. I initially started it as a honest feedback thread here because it wouldn't have been tolerated over on the dp9forums. Either a mod or Dp9 would have closed it down on his own or the faithful would have antagonized it to oblivion/uselessness. it has turned generally into a general (complaint) thread since it served its purpose which is why I changed the name and didn't have any issue with a separate KS thread. There is obviously going to be overlap between the two though given the almost identical audience. It's stayed negative by and large because nothing really positive has actually happened. There were/are some positive indicators since the KS but we won't know until they actually complete it. What positive stuff is there to cover? Chibi minis? The video game? Nothing much has happened with HG in the past two years and we're all just waiting to see how this KS'ed game and minis turn out. The proof is in the pudding. Until then, folks still have a lingering bad taste from the last meal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/29 00:38:35
2015/08/29 01:03:23
Subject: Re:[Heavy Gear] General Discussion Thread
doc1234 wrote: Isn't Star Citizen (or one of those ship based games that'v come off kickstarter) following a similar format though? The ships are up for sale individually (and some are damn expensive, I recall hearing an alien fighter went for a few hundred dollars awhile back), and that seems to be doing fairly successfully.
Yes, and no.
At the moment, yes. An awful lot of the ships are for sale for real money to help support the game's development (including ships that have multi-person crews). But when the game goes live, that will change. New players will be required to purchase a starter pack that contains one of a select few starter ships (three announced so far, two of which are currently flyable). Any other ships will need to be purchased within the game.
2015/08/29 02:20:34
Subject: Re:[Heavy Gear] General Discussion Thread
BrandonKF wrote: [..]That's also the reason why those 'like-minded' people don't come here and talk. Because they realize that the Internet is a wide place, and they don't have to interact with you if they don't want to.
(by 'Filter Thread')
BrandonKF: 177 of 1900, roughly 9.3%
Wildger: 10 of 1900, roughly 0.5% Werewolf486: 5 of 1900, roughly 0.3% Warphound: 8 of 1900, roughly 0.4% Warboss: 361 of 1900, roughly 19% [Thread Creator] Vertrucio: 8 of 1900, roughly 0.4%
UN test Pilot: 2 of 1900, roughly 0.1% Tamwulf: 22 of 1900, roughly 1.2% Solkan: 13 of 1900, roughly 0.7% Smilodon_UP: 164 of 1900, roughly 8.6% RJVF: 8 of 1900, roughly 0.4%
Ronin_eX: 9 of 1900, roughly 0.5% Riker2800: 26 of 1900, roughly 1.4% Rhedrimond: 2 of 1900, roughly 0.1% Redeemer31: 4 of 1900, roughly 0.2% PschoticStorm: 4 of 1900, roughly 0.2%
Plastictrees: 6 of 1900, roughly 0.3% Nomeny: 2 of 1900, roughly 0.1% Ncshooter426: 3 of 1900, roughly 0.2% MrThud: 16 of 1900, roughly 0.8% Mrondeau: 127 of 1900, roughly 6.7% Morgan Vening: 3 of 1900, roughly 0.2%
Mmmpi: 6 of 1900, roughly 0.3% Killionaire: 15 of 1900, roughly 0.8% JohnHwangDD: 48 of 1900, roughly 2.5% Jedi76: 5 of 1900, roughly 0.3% IceRaptor: 90 of 1900, roughly 4.7% HudsonD: 136 of 1900, roughly 7.2%
H.B.M.C.: 3 of 1900, roughly 0.2% Firebreak: 100 of 1900, roughly 5.3% Ferrous: 104 of 1900, roughly 5.5% Eumerin: 29 of 1900, roughly 1.5% Easy E: 2 of 1900, roughly 0.1%
DP9Dave: 11 of 1900, roughly 0.6% Doc1234: 11 of 1900, roughly 0.6% Daba: 2 of 1900, roughly 0.1% Cruentus: 2 of 1900, roughly 0.1% Cincydooley: 2 of 1900, roughly 0.1%
Chemical Cutthroat: 42 of 1900, roughly 2.2% Bobloblah: 5 of 1900, roughly 0.3% Balance: 40 of 1900, roughly 2.1% Alpharius: 5 of 1900, roughly 0.3% Albertorius: 202 of 1900, roughly 10.6% Total for all listed usernames - 97% of overall thread posts.
In the KS comments (by 'Filter Thread'):
BrandonKF: 124 of 932 posts, roughly 13.3%
Warboss: 27 of 932, roughly 12.6% Spaceelf: 5 of 932, roughly 0.5% Solkan: 8 of 932, roughly 0.9% Smilodon_UP: 31 of 932, roughly 3.3% Riker2800: 14 of 932, roughly 1.5%
Nomeny: 36 of 932, roughly 3.9% Mrondeau: 17 of 932, roughly 1.8% Morgan Vening: 5 of 932, roughly 0.5% Mmmpi: 7 of 932, roughly 0.8% Maceria: 6 of 932, roughly 0.6%
JohnHwangDD: 79 of 932, roughly 8.5% IceRaptor: 11 of 932, roughly 1.2% HudsonD: 30 of 932, roughly 3.2% Henshini: 4 of 932, roughly 0.4% Grey Templar: 9 of 932, roughly 1.0% Frozenwastes: 46 of 932, roughly 4.9%
Firebreak: 69 of 932, roughly 7.4% Eumerin: 2 of 932, roughly 0.2% Dream Pod 9: 3 of 932, roughly 0.3% DP9Dave: 50 of 932, roughly 5.4% Cergorach: 17 of 932, roughly 1.8% Catyrpelius: 9 of 932, roughly 1.0%
Bobloblah: 7 of 932, roughly 0.8% Barzam: 5 of 932, roughly 0.5% Alpharius: 35 of 932, roughly 3.8% Albertorius: 93 of 932, roughly 10% Ahtman: 6 of 932, roughly 0.6% Total for all listed usernames - 90.7% of overall thread posts.
Comments for select usernames in '[Heavy Gear] Updates for Assault, Gear-Finity, and Universe...' (by 'Filter Thread'):
So, what you actually mean by your statement is that thing you yourself keep doing here, while basically everyone else does not do the same thing on either this or another venue.
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This message was edited 15 times. Last update was at 2015/08/29 16:11:58
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
Warboss has a point. I don't think it's that it's "just negative because its dakka and everyones a faithless hater". The reason it seems that way is because as was said, this kind of thread wouldn't have been tolerated elsewhere, but on the other hand, lets face it heavy gear isnt exact relevant enough to warrent its own major threads anywhere outside of the dp9 forums (and even thats iffy).
The reason it seems oh so negative all the time is because the only ones with anything to say are saying it. Theres a difference to being a fresh face that thinks "oh hey awesome a game about robots" who doesn't know what a mess this all is, and an existing fan who actually has much good to say about it all (as ever assuming these thousands of fans with the money to blindly hand over even exist). The positive opions congregate on the dp9 forums for better or worse, and the negative come here because dp9 has some gw levels of head in the sand going on in regards to anything that's not abject praise.
Just because someone is burnt out on a game, or finds themselves out of actively playing it doesn't mean they don't want to talk about it. But when the stance of the main forum is "dissidents will not be tolerated" what are you meant to do? "My opinion is not positive and there for should never be voiced"? I'm sure the company would just love that...
- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
doc1234 wrote: Warboss has a point. I don't think it's that it's "just negative because its dakka and everyones a faithless hater". The reason it seems that way is because as was said, this kind of thread wouldn't have been tolerated elsewhere, but on the other hand, lets face it heavy gear isnt exact relevant enough to warrent its own major threads anywhere outside of the dp9 forums (and even thats iffy).
The reason it seems oh so negative all the time is because the only ones with anything to say are saying it. Theres a difference to being a fresh face that thinks "oh hey awesome a game about robots" who doesn't know what a mess this all is, and an existing fan who actually has much good to say about it all (as ever assuming these thousands of fans with the money to blindly hand over even exist). The positive opions congregate on the dp9 forums for better or worse, and the negative come here because dp9 has some gw levels of head in the sand going on in regards to anything that's not abject praise.
Just because someone is burnt out on a game, or finds themselves out of actively playing it doesn't mean they don't want to talk about it. But when the stance of the main forum is "dissidents will not be tolerated" what are you meant to do? "My opinion is not positive and there for should never be voiced"? I'm sure the company would just love that...
Me too.
I'm burnt out on constantly making long posts.
I get it. warboss isn't a hater. Albertorius isn't a hater. JohnHwang's an observer (a critical one, but still, an observer nonetheless).
I get all of the observations. I know what the mess has been in the past. I've seen it.
All the same, I see Dream Pod 9's recent work on the Kickstarter, and their willingness to share things in the open, as a positive after a long, slow decline that mirrored GW.
As for Heavy Gear Assault, that's a separate endeavor by a separate company. One which has grown over the past two years since the failed Kickstarter.
Blackfang wrote: Meh, it's just opinion, they're entitled to it and when the game does reach a point where they feel they can back the project then we'll welcome them with open arms and a small elbow nudge whispering "told you so!".
Looks like there might actually be some sense left over there.
HGA as it is right now is plain bad, early alpha at best, and from the financial statements, Stompy is in trouble. That's why most of us aren't playing it (because it looks plain bad), and why we're not hopeful, either.
If you're having fun there, well, sure, that's good for you, it just won't change anyone else's assessment of the game.
IF the game becomes good enough to play, well damn, I'll eat some crows, and move over there to have fun. IF.
In the meantime, exchanges as the above :
"- If you looked closer, you'd see it's not gak
- Looking closer is precisely why I think it's gak.
- Oh, no no, you're not looking close enough, you should smell it too
- But it smells like gak !"
... will remain sterile.
Of course, what happens if the game doesn't come around, and Stompy sinks ? Will be allowed to say "we told ya so", or will you blame us "haters" for that failure ?
Edit : I'll admit Warphound's comment gave me a big smile
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/08/29 10:11:22
JohnHwangDD wrote: The key parallel between StompyBot and the Pod is that both Koolaid companies think there are tons of unknown fans out there that will gladly open their wallets without any hesitation.
doc1234 wrote: [..] lets face it heavy gear isnt exact relevant enough to warrent its own major threads anywhere outside of the dp9 forums (and even thats iffy). [..] (as ever assuming these thousands of fans with the money to blindly hand over even exist).
A couple of folks gave serious discussion over Winter & early Spring of this year towards creating an independent and lightly moderated Heavy Gear web forum not utilizing social media, but eventually I think it became obvious there would be so little traffic as to be not worth the effort really.
For example, as mentioned before in thread the G+ community went from about (72) to (109) members since the KS campaign ended yet all but three (3) of almost three dozen (30+) posts since New Year's have been by one person, with essentially little or no commenting or upvoting occurring. By and large the official forum isn't far behind that level of activity, with a number of periods over this Spring & Summer (including weekends) where more than a day if not two or three passed with no new posts.
doc1234 wrote: [..] Just because someone is burnt out on a game, or finds themselves out of actively playing it doesn't mean they don't want to talk about it.
There is also a continuing assumption being made, if not an outright ignoring of the fact, that the 'nay-sayers' have never tried, or continued to try, interesting folks about things Heavy Gear or whatnot in their respective locales which is a little irksome to be honest. You simply cannot force folks to get involved with a setting, even using your own revisions or an alternative ruleset, if they are put off by content, visual matters, availability, pricing, the company, or the attitude of those supporting the company as fans or adjunct sources of material.
doc1234 wrote: [..] But when the stance of the main forum is "dissidents will not be tolerated" what are you meant to do? "My opinion is not positive and there for should never be voiced"? I'm sure the company would just love that...
Definitely. Likewise, as always virtually no one here on Dakka is at fault for any decision(s), directions, or changes made by Arkrite, StompyBot, the Pod itself, or any other firm and/or personage associated with Heavy Gear now and in the past. No matter how much the 'hopeful' (as they were termed) might wish otherwise, that reality exists to be found and may not significantly change, if at all as noted by warboss, as well as the lack of much anything substantial out of any firm for Heavy Gear since what, 2012?
But when what community there is has reached the point of any dissension or outside opinions being 'jackassery', unwelcome, or worse, /shrug Why that cannot be considered off-putting to everyone else, let alone any 'new blood', by those making such a distinction is rather baffling to say the least.
Werewolf486 wrote: Yeah I wasn't even going to come over here for those very reasons and then I saw that Smilodon_UP brought me in with a quote from DP9 forums. The upside is that I've been proven right by you, so thanks for helping me be right again.
Lol, yeah, it's better if you stay at the official company forums with the like minded folks can converse since that it the attitude you started with. Apparently, not liking something you do and giving the actual reasons why is enough to be referred to as:
Werewolf wrote:No, some ok people but mostly stacked full of hateful, bitter, product bashing people the likes of which I hope stay away from HGA. Toxic wastelands and a waste of time to even try.
You're not interested in a discussion but rather to dictate what people can and must like because you do.
.... For myself, I'm still trying to figure out where I 'bashed' the game, while adding a point to what everyone else was discussing back on that page.
IceRaptor wrote: [..] Personally, I find the aesthetics of the plastics off - they don't contain the wow factor that the metals did, for various reasons. I'm not sure that I'd be as instantly smitten by the renders as I was by Phil's metal renditions many years back. Sure, a good paint job and the end product will tell - but my suspicion is that these don't have the same appeal as the metals and so will make pushing the game a bit harder.
[..] Having lack-luster models - even if they are plastic, and therefore cheap - may not help carve out a segment from those other companies and may leave the Pod in a worse spot than it was. The new rules were intended to be a way to jump the company firmly into the battle segment, but they can't carry the game themselves.
[..] But for now, it looks like I'm going to prefer my existing metals to the new designs.
While the initial renders had some potential, and some HG:Assault models have a few interesting features, overall I'd agree there doesn't seem to be the same "grab factor " in the model designs anymore between the most recent metal offerings, the Kickstarter, and the Pod supported PC-game effort.
The supposed inability to mold certain features due to drafting (or "reasons") seems questionable, because effort was specifically made to include the spikes of all things found on Southern models - yet somehow other features that I'd expect to be easier to mold cannot be kept on the new renders.
I played a bit of HG1 online, and quite a bit of HG2 online as well over GameSpy, but to be honest I think I'd rather drop my $$$ towards a rebuilt Win98 machine capable of running HG1 and my other old games without the glitches associated with an XP or 7 computer. It has little to do with graphics, but rather with gameplay - if I want an endlessly respawning twitch playstyle like that of a console I can plug in Perfect Dark for my N64 (or else borrow my nephew's consoles), if not download something else onto the PC such as Unreal Tournament or another similar FPS. I've been following the videos and other threads, but nevertheless I cannot see something I want if it just isn't there, and even the company itself noted in an update or two how there may end up not being any additional single player content beyond the current offering.
Not posting my point, or someone else doing the same, in this manner is simply dishonest - and again, I don't see how that equates to 'product bashing'. And when people who have chosen to set themselves up as community leaders are already consciously or unconsciously making decisions about discriminating who can and cannot play or otherwise acceptably associate with 'their game', well, that is a problem. Which, needless to say, is already present in far too many online communities - with the consequence that potentially interested folks may simply not even want to bother trying to deal with it yet again.
One big thing I think that is holding people back from trialing HG:A Assault, even with the cost, is a continued lack of definitive and updated system requirements from the devs, who have to be running/creating it themselves with something in mind. More people post-Early Access are writing up some ideas about why the game won't run on their rig, or about their crashes/bugs, but a web search brings up little hard data on system specs otherwise that folks are using to run the game beyond a handful of posts here and there.
HudsonD wrote: IF the game becomes good enough to play, well damn, I'll eat some crows, and move over there to have fun. IF.
Quite true; A number of people clearly want to give StompyBot money, but as with the Pod's vision of things Heavy Gear, those on-the-fence folks want there to be something in the content to make it worth their time and attention. I quite agree with warboss too, in which that is not by any means an unreasonable attitude on the part of all those watching the development(s).
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This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2015/08/29 13:49:39
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
I've been following the videos and other threads, but nevertheless I cannot see something I want
Someone could make a Heavy Gear pinball game, and it could be the literal best pinball game ever made, but if you don't like pinball games, having "Heavy Gear" on it won't help you like it.
I think that seems to be a big sticking point, with Assault. Okay, people like it, for an alpha it appears well-made, etc. Cool. But some people just don't like or have an interest in that kind of game. No amount of quality is going to help that.
I've watched the videos for Assault, and I was hoping for something with more single player/missions/what have you.
But as its being billed as an entry for the 'nascent e-sports field', its not for me, no matter how shiny it ends up being.
I'd rather have something that runs through a story (even if its just missions on a train track) that lets me upgrade or play around with the load out of the gears at my disposal.
I think that seems to be a big sticking point, with Assault. Okay, people like it, for an alpha it appears well-made, etc. Cool. But some people just don't like or have an interest in that kind of game. No amount of quality is going to help that.
Yep, that's where I'm at, and is the same reason I'm not playing MWO: I have not interest whatsoever in that kind of game, no matter how polished it might be.
I don't play Magic, either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/29 16:08:26
Smilodon_UP wrote: There is also a continuing assumption being made, if not an outright ignoring of the fact, that the 'nay-sayers' have never tried, or continued to try, interesting folks about things Heavy Gear or whatnot in their respective locales which is a little irksome to be honest.
You simply cannot force folks to get involved with a setting, even using your own revisions or an alternative ruleset, if they are put off by content, visual matters, availability, pricing, the company, or the attitude of those supporting the company as fans or adjunct sources of material.
I have tried HG multiple times with my group, but the Blitz rules are not suitable for enjoyable play.
The Pod should take a serious look at GW's Age of Sigmar engine and/or Flight Path (STAW, STAW, WoG) as something clearly more modern than the thing they are currently using.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/29 16:19:08
Firebreak wrote: But some people just don't like or have an interest in that kind of game. No amount of quality is going to help that.
[..] I don't play Magic, either.
I tried Pokemon Online to figure out using real cards with my niece & nephew, but I refuse to play something like MtG online for $$$ when the entire appeal of the game for me is playing with another person using physical cards as best I can from random purchasing of packs/decks at a similar cost. Which has had the exact same problem as with Heavy Gear around here; finding someone willing to learn to play in the first place, interested enough to play again or teach others, and then confident enough to purchase their own materiel.
Another example is Everquest, which has been free to play for what, three-four years now, but despite having payed to subscribe on and off from 2002-2010 I don't think I've put in two months worth of days played since then no matter how much better it works nowadays. The primary reason being it's not the same game anymore; essentially it has lost the need for grouping (a sense of challenge really outside raid-only content) that made it an attractive alternative to just watching a DVD, reading, or playing something else.
WoW and City of Heroes/Villians however were so repetitive in content and all but lacking or completely overwhelming in challenging content with little or no middle ground that I can barely even imagine ever playing either game again if presented with the opportunity. Yet both were considerably more polished than EQ upon their respective launch dates.
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This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2015/08/29 16:47:32
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We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
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HudsonD wrote: AoS ? Modern ? Yeah, nope, if you are to copy something, at least copy something good.
Compared to Blitz? or pre-Blitz HG? AoS is modern by comparison. And the AoS engine is good. It's very clean.
You AoS haters need to separate the engine from the implementation. If you just focus on the 2 pages of how to play AoS, it's great for skirmish games.
AoS at least "works" as a bare bones "Heres some dice, now get on with it" system, much like FUBAR or many other free one/two page rulesets, and ignoring the stat lines it...wouldn't be a terrible way to home run even HG honestly. No worse than messing around with Fubar etc anyway.
Point being AOS may not be amazing, but it IS a bit more modern than some of the stuff under the HG name. Just got to figure your stats out.
- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
HudsonD wrote: AoS ? Modern ? Yeah, nope, if you are to copy something, at least copy something good.
Compared to Blitz? or pre-Blitz HG? AoS is modern by comparison. And the AoS engine is good. It's very clean.
You AoS haters need to separate the engine from the implementation. If you just focus on the 2 pages of how to play AoS, it's great for skirmish games.
LOL
You AoS lovers need to separate the company line from the game. If you just focus on the game itself, you'll realize that top to bottom it's a poor quality cash grab made for people who can't see it.
It's like saying if you only focus on the bits of intact peanuts left in a stinking turd, then that turd is a wonderful meal to eat.
But I've said enough on that. Likewise, as per my original posts in this thread, there is a point where you just have to move on, and leave it behind. Including not posting about in this thread that's gone on way too long. HG as you knew it was dead, and if they continue on their path, it will fade away. Why not just make your own new mech game to compete with HG and show them how it's done? Alternatively, you can go and try all those other games that could really use the players.
Both sides of this argument is so much like all the people disheartened by GW's treatment of them and they either latch on super hard to AoS, or timidly stay involved with GW and the game's community despite how much its hurting them. Have the courage to move on and more forward to something that enriches your life.
But I've said enough on that. Likewise, as per my original posts in this thread, there is a point where you just have to move on, and leave it behind. Including not posting about in this thread that's gone on way too long. HG as you knew it was dead, and if they continue on their path, it will fade away. Why not just make your own new mech game to compete with HG and show them how it's done? Alternatively, you can go and try all those other games that could really use the players.
Both sides of this argument is so much like all the people disheartened by GW's treatment of them and they either latch on super hard to AoS, or timidly stay involved with GW and the game's community despite how much its hurting them. Have the courage to move on and more forward to something that enriches your life.
You say that like it's an either/or decision when it's most certainly not. Me posting here hasn't prevented me playing Dropzone Commander, or Battletech/Alpha Strike, or Infinity, to name a couple of scifi games I'm currently into. Likewise, me still liking the setting and wanting to talk about it has nothing to do with what the company might be doing or not doing nowadays.
People can like and comment multiple things at once. Hell, they can even play multiple things at once.
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However, look back through all of this thread and try to tell me that this discussion is really accomplishing anything besides stirring up more pointless generic rage.
The game's devs aren't listening, that's assuming they should even listen. The remaining player base isn't listening, and again that's assuming the points here are worth listening to. It's just a roundabout death spiral of anger and hatred, like two people arguing by plugging their ears and running around each other in a circle. So the game isn't going to change course, that leaves only the disgruntled players to change course.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/29 22:11:11
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- 1250 points
