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Hi guys. I'm looking for some advice again. So I've painted up like a dozen or so of my purple Space Wolves. (Fully SW codex compliant but with Shadow Wolves colours and some fluff to tie in that I've not dreamed up yet.)

The problem is I'm very unhappy with them and I fear this is causing me to lose my inspiration to carry on. I've never done this before, until a couple months ago I'd never really looked into war gaming at all. In fact I'd never picked up a brush until a few weeks ago but I'm good with my hands and really want to try this war gaming mullarky.

I want to get a small force ready before I venture down to my local GW store (Which I've only been to a couple of times) where the nice guy who runs it said he would give me a couple of learner games to prepare me for my first game with an actual opponent. I appreciate that these minis aren't terrible, I base this on pictures of other beginners work, and can appreciate these are good enough for table top standards but I really need something I can feel proud of. I would've carried on as I am but the GF lovingly bought me some sexy new Termies for Xmas which I'm now scared to paint.

I'm looking for any help or tips you can give me. My biggest issue is that up close, and under good lighting they look OK but when a few feet away on the desk they look too dark and suggest to me that I need to lighten up shading. I also don't like the pastel colour I got by mixing Xereus with white, I much prefer a pinkier colour but simply couldn't mix it, suggestions here would be greatly appreciated. I've also struggled with thinning paint and with it drying on my brush when doing fine detail. This may be because I used some Tamiya Acrylic which is meant to be thinned with proper thinners making it really hard to work with, I'd also like suggestions with edge highlighting colours.

I know I'm asking a lot but I've literally spent hours and hours now just staring at my models and trawling through youtube and google looking for images and tutorials to show me how to get my guys looking the way I want.

Thanks for ready I know it was long


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You can see from these pictures that when there is a good light source they look better but when that goes it becomes difficult to see the detail.

Painting minis is an art. like anything, it requires practice. Your models look good. you should be proud. if you want them better, keep painting.

Thanks bebop. I know I'm being a bit impatient I just really want to get a few painted good enough that I'm comfortable playing them in the store. I'm getting better but there's much room for improvement. If I can just nail the basics they might start to look as good as I need them to. I don't know whether to paint over the parts I'm unhappy with or simply strip them and redo.

Your models look great, there is no reason to feel ashamed about bringing them to play at a store.

As to getting better, keep at it, try new things and strive to make everyone better then your last.

I think you're being too hard on yourself. Those marines look quite good given your experience level.

The first step in getting your models looking better is learning how to manage thinning your paints. Painting super clean base coats with thinned paint and no visible brush strokes. With a foundation like that anything is possible.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments. If anyone can spot any glaring mistakes they can offer solutions too I would be really grateful. Also do you not think these minis are too dark and lack contrast.

Mate, I feel your pain.

First your marines look better than a lot of marines instore so don't worry
Second, at least your'e painting. You see so many unprimed grey models instore that people don't bother painting.

third, fourth and so on, as people have said, practice is the key. I have only be painting for about 18 months and when I look at my Dark eldar (lots of edge highlights) that I forst did compared to my nids, scars or nurgle stuff the impoovment is massive. As you carry on you aquire more skill and more tools (maybe an airbrush) so naturally progress.

I understand your frustration though as whenever I start a new army I have this picture in my head of how I want them to look and it never gets 'quite' there. I reckon tho that the day I get there I will become bored as there will no longer be a challange. Remeber that the guys who paint for GW/White Dwarf or sell commission lots do it all day everyday not like us who manage a few hours per night/week.

If you ever get down about a model refer back to an earlier model and if it is now then that previous one you are doing well.

Paint the termies but maybe buy some medium or flow aid from a hobby shop to thin paint and inrease the drying time. As for them looking dark all you can do is hit a few little areas with a light colour to make the rest pop but you seem to have acheived this with your shoulder pads.

Good luck

I am the same way, three years in I am not happy with about 90% of what I paint. But hey the paint is not permanent and if you aren't happy you can strip them and repaint them and the more you paint the better you will get.

When you get to the point where you are really happy with the way a mini looks you will know that it is worth all the time. I am much better at painting than when I started but I am no professional. I just suggest trying new things and keep going to youtube/google and keep looking at tutorials.

Trying to explain how to thin paints is kind of hard as it comes down to feeling and the paint but just add a small amount of water to your paints and put the brush to plastic. Many say it needs to be the consistency of milk, but it varies.

I like it, the faces look really good and I have been painting on and off for a year and I think your stuff is better than mine. Just don't do what I am doing now...

What im doing is painting one or two, then I decide I don't like them and strip them and rinse and repeat. At that rate I wont have a army for possibly two years lmao...

So what I suggest is to keep painting and by the time you are done with your army your painting skills should be much improved and you can decide to strip a couple of your earlier models and repaint them. That way you can have a painted army and you can start to repaint them to your satisfaction.

A thing that keeps me going as a newbie painter is the blog i created. I use it to document my progress in which i can look back at my first model and compare it with the new one. This is something that works for me and it doesn't mean it would/should work for you, just saying that it could

Ow and your marines look way better then my necrons

To echo what other have said, what you have is good. You are being a little to hard on yourself, particularly since your goal is to get an army on the table an playing. Remember the arm's length rule: models in play are rarely looked at close up. Hold your mini out at arm's length. All those glaring, horrid flaws that only your eye see when you are 3" away crouched at your workbench? Gone! We tend to be our own worst critics.

It's easy to look around in modeling forums and see mind-blowing work. Don't be disheartened that you aren't producing that level on your basic troops after a few months/years of work. Keep practicing, try new things, research different techniques. Harness your feelings of inadequacy, and use them to drive yourself to get better.

And if you don't like the way something turns out, toss it into some simple green (or other paint stripper of your choosing) and try it again. All you loose is a few layers of paint and some time. What you gain is experience and perspective. A fair trade.

But to end: be proud of what you have accomplished. Your minis look great. You put time and effort into them and it shows. You are not fielding bare grey, primered, or 3-color minimum. You have a solid grasp of the core painting techniques and you use them. If every army I faced across the table was painted at the level yours is, I'd be much happier.

Keep up the good work.

As an aside, you might want to start up a blog. I've found it helps keep me motivated (most of the time) and it's a good place to get focused feedback.

Hiya Andy.

firstly, i totally understand your frustration - i always look at my minis and see the flaws! my first mini's were abominations. yellow abominations at that!

thing is, like bebop was saying the only way to get better is practice.

having said that, i agree with everyone else - your first mini's are nothing to be ashamed of at all. also, dont apologize for posting a long thread mate.

none of that is helping you achieve what you want though (but i do hope a bunch of randoms telling you are better than you think at least helps the ego), so here goes....

its great that you have been able to find an image of what you would like to get to; i guess i would start by critically comparing your minis to the other mini, find the differences and then working on those areas.
one of the things you mentioned is that your mini isnt "popping" on the table. that they look dark. the inspirational pic however did.

im no expert but leaving aside technical considerations (like thinning paints, brush technique etc) if we look at the difference the first thing that stands out to me is the basing. your models are dark in hue and have dark bases. the inspirational model is also fairly dark in hue but has a very bright, light base. using a contrasting base can be very effective in focusing the eye on the model.

secondly, but on a similar themes your contrasting trim (the gold) is very dark - on the inspirational pic it is bright. the eyes on your helmets are similarly not very bright. of course, you want to be careful - you dont want some cheesy gold colour or something that clashes constantly, but having something bright to set off the dark can be very effective. i paint IF so i give them bright green eyes and power weapons to contrast the yellow (with nice dark bases and dark trim). if you check out scar's blog, he has some awesome Emperors Children which might be helpful (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/487760.page). if you read through his thread im prety sure he gives a couple of useful "how to's" on purple as well.

there are many examples of these kind of spot colours (contrasting colours that form a smaller percentage of the total colour) . here are some of my fav:

From bebop - http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/567987-.html note the generally dull hue of the grey tunic and the vibrant tone of the plasma
From J-Paint - http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/539833-Black%20Templar.html?m=2 (note the bright tone of the shoulders, face, cherub and candle flames drawing the eye up from the dull armour)
From nerdfest09 - http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/530349-Slaanesh%20Hel-Sak.html?m=2 (those eyes...those eyes....)

as for edge highlighting, purple can be hard. adding white can make things chalky. i cant help you much here im afraid but i do know GW do a purple edging paint. that mihgt help?

anyways, hope this is of some help mate but in closing: your models dolook great, you should not be embarrassed, and you should TOTALLY paint up those termies!

i look forward to seeing more of your work.

My friend those marines look great. I know you want your minis to look like golden daemon winners but lets face it you can't get there without practice

I think you need to not be so critical about your paint job. Highlights are good, flesh tones are good just keep practicing.
If you showed up at a GW store with those minis they would be better than a lot of peoples painting.
At least you are taking your time, learning techniques and have a good base of skills. I don't know how long you have been painting but seems like you are a better painter than most beginners.

This is where I started 1 year ago:


This is where I am now (which is not that much better, but I learned highlighting, blending etc but I am not ashamed to show people either...everyone starts somewhere).

 andywalker07 wrote:
Thanks bebop. I know I'm being a bit impatient I just really want to get a few painted good enough that I'm comfortable playing them in the store. I'm getting better but there's much room for improvement. If I can just nail the basics they might start to look as good as I need them to. I don't know whether to paint over the parts I'm unhappy with or simply strip them and redo.

They look fine to me. I had the same kinds of feelings of wanting to have nicely painted stuff before playing at a store, but then I went to the store and saw what people played with. I am not sure what your store is like, but I go and see seas of gray stuff, stuff that looks like someone dropped a can of paint on the floor next to the model and called it painted, models without arms and wargear even glued on. All kinds of stuff i would never even consider doing.

I think your stuff is fine. And like others said, like anything, painting well takes practice. No reason to deny yourself playing a game while you are learning to paint.

I really appreciate the feedback guys, thanks. Mcmaniak , UnCool & Nevelon; You are all right and I need way more practice and possibly to strip minis that I really don't like, I'll try and remember this when I'm being over critical and trying hopelessly to achieve the flawless jobs you see online.

Evarieuda, I like your idea of a blog this might help me track my progress, thanks for the suggestion.

Chiefbigredman; Thanks for the compliment, it means a lot considering you painted that awesome rat ogre, it's so bright and vivid, exactly what I want.

And San 76: You've effortlessly stated what my biggest problem is with my guys and that is that they simply don't pop. I like the purple marines because they really stand out and the colours jump at you. I don't know what colours to use to achieve this though. There doesn't seem to be anything in GW range that matches except screamer pink but I'm worried that my guys will look like barbie dolls. I was thinking; xereus base, dark wash, xereus recoat leaving darkest recesses, then do a smaller coat of xereus & Screamer pink 50:50 then pure screamer edge highlight but what to use for extreme edge, light pink? Do I then do tips with white? Also should I use warlock purple by Vallejo this looks comparable? I've been trying to find a detailed guide everywhere but what I do find is often difficult to understand.
Also I had considered that the scorpion brass was too dark, should I just highlight over and what with? Shining Gold?

I could live with the smaller flaws and areas where I've slipped up until I get better but it's the overall feel of the mini that's causing me annoyance
So many questions...... but they're getting closer


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And those 3 pics are awesome, The marble tiles and plasma glow on bebops is sick, I also really like the colours on Hel sak but OMG that termie is sooo sexy.

If you build up the purple layers as you suggest and then do the very tips in white, wash the whole thing down with duruchhi violet. The wash takes the sharp contrasts off and almost kind of blends all the colours together. As mentioned earlier if you play about with water/medium/flowaid then once you get the base oat right the rest is easier.

Then just as you get to a point your happy with you'll do what most of us end up doing and buy an airbrush which means you start all over again (whole different world).

With the thinning, I think this will be easier when I replace the dry clumpy pink mix I've been using with a good quality paint that thins with water and also I've been using some cheap 10p acrylic paints which have such little little pigment in them it's insane. Should I switch my initial wash (AP dark tone) to Druuchi Violet also?

I also think you may benefit from trying to convert the models a bit. I find that if they are in a generic pose then I feel less impressed with the paint on them. If you look at my white scars blog you can see that each biker has a cape and I have added a rear faring to the bikes. With the characters I have converted them quite a lot which makes an average paint job look better because the model is better in the first place. In my other blog for the alien themed nids I converted every model and all 15 warriors had a different dynamic pose. The paint job was very basic and simple to do but the model looks a lot better IMO.

Just seen your post soz. Don't use the cheap paints as they will hold you back and the wash I think is a trial and error thing.

Woah that is a massive army, how many bikes !?

God knows how many years into my painting adventure and I'm still not happy with the majority of my models.
Some things that will greatly improve your painting are some of the simplest things:
1-THIN YOUR PAINTS!!! can't emphasise this enough many thin coats are better than one thick coat!!!
2- watch youtube constantly. Just surf from one tutorial to the next check out awesomepaintjob And buy painted two of the better out there.
3-take your models to your local store you have no need to be ashamed of them! And people there will be able to give you so many more tips and able to gauge your models in person.

Good luck and keep practicing as they say practice makes perfect

Thanks for the tips soitra, I've watched a lot of lesters vids and buy painted and also really rate Dr fausts' paiting clinic.

I really like your black templars power sword BTW.

Will be 72 bikes in total mate. #bitingoffmorethanicanchew

Wow

HI Andy,

looks like you are getting lots of good advice, which is nice to see.

i did think of one more thing which is - have you tried lightening your purple with ushabti (bleached bone) instead of white? i think this might give you a closer tone to the highlight colour in your first inspirational pic? sadly, im at work and cant test it for you but maybe mix a little on your palette and see?

Hi,

I can offer some tips for promoting mental health:

Take better pictures of your minis. That will help you and the people you ask for help diagnose your painting.

Paint rank and file quickly and neatly but only invest a lot of time and yourself into center piece, vehicle, or specialty models.



Paint for personal satisfaction and try to enjoy the painting process and not the results.

Don't be afraid of errors. Painting is forgiving because you can go behind and correct mistakes.

Experiment with colors, thinning, washes, weathering and so on. Part of the fun is that moment when you stumble upon something great.

This is a common thing to feel to many artists of various levels.

I've been painting and drawing all my life, and now I actually teach painting and drawing. And 80% of the time I'm not happy with what I produce. Almost all my artist friends feel the same way with their work, whether it be photography, writing, painting, drawing or making songs. The next part would be the art teacher in me would say to a student who feels the same way as you do.

First thing to remember: YOU ARE NOT ALONE. A lot of people experience the same thing. For some people, knowing this fact makes them feel better somewhat. Most artists experience (or more like, experiencing) the same thing, and they still produce great works of art.

Second: USE THAT FEELING OF INADEQUACY TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. Instead of it paralyzing you, use it as a drive to be better at what you do. You think what you painted is crap? Then paint another miniature and think what you would have to do to make it better.

Third: KNOWING WHAT YOUR YOU NEED TO WORK ON WILL MAKE YOU A GREAT ARTIST. A great artist will improve over time, and to improve you have to cultivate zeroing in on your mistakes, taking criticisms like a boss and improving on your current skill level. A lot of people here is already telling you your work is already great, and it is don't get me wrong, but if you think you can do better then strive to be better. That doesn't mean you hae to strip those models because they're decent enough, but buy new ones and try on improving your technique. You can't help but compare yourselves to other great artists but being good at art is a lot like being pregnant: everyone congratulates you but not one knows how many times you've been fethed. You can see your limitations because you have discerning taste for good work, and you always have to remember that.

Finally, everything I have to say is paraphrased by this comic quite damn well.

Original comic here: http://doodlealley.com/2012/10/10/be-friends-with-failure/

As for the pink highlights, mix a bit more red or (gasp) pink to your base purple color. Or better yet, find a color in Vallejo Model Color/GW paints/Whatever you use that matches what you want because you'll be mixing that color all the damn time and better to buy a bottle of that actual color for the sake of consistency.

More really great advice thanks guys, with regards to using bleached bone, would that not still be more a pastel colour? I was hoping to go from pale salmon to a vivid magenta. The name screamer pink suggests something other than light purple but apparently it used to be called Warlord purple. Does anyone have any experience using this colour? I'm going to try enjoying the process more and use my realisations of what needs work to improve on said aspects.

I'm using khaki to highlight purple at the moment and I wouldn't call it pastel; it gives a more subdued look to the purple. I don't remember a Warlord purple, but I did have warlock purple. Mine's long gone, but I remember it was like a pink-purple, and a lot brighter than any of those photos. Knightley was mixing it with purple when he was painting Fulgrim, but it's now out of production. Maybe you can mix your own?

 andywalker07 wrote:
More really great advice thanks guys, with regards to using bleached bone, would that not still be more a pastel colour? I was hoping to go from pale salmon to a vivid magenta. The name screamer pink suggests something other than light purple but apparently it used to be called Warlord purple. Does anyone have any experience using this colour? I'm going to try enjoying the process more and use my realisations of what needs work to improve on said aspects.

Oh I use Screamer pink as a highlight over Xereus Purple It works quite good. It's a good color. I use it on my Dark Eldar. Usually mixing Screamer Pink into the Purple bit by bit and thinning it with water for a not to thick coverage. (Usually for robes, that'll take hella long with power armor highlights.) Plus Screamer pink is a lot different color than the highlight color on your marines.