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Sorry, literally did not know where to put this! So could a mod move to where ever they see fit?


Basically i'm a bum, signed on last week and it's all not going to plan. Waiting on some MRI scan results before i really make any decisions right now, as i should really make some long term decisions now, i'm in the late twenties after all.

My CV is terrible, i'm clutching at straws trying to make myself as a worthwhile employee. My education is worthless, B&C GCSEs, my work experience is Royal Mail with a single sick day in four years, and warehouse work... I've skills elsewhere, but nothing that is really useable. I can use tools, build fences and build bicycle wheels.

So yeah, that's "toilet" all. So i'm trying to remember things i've done in the past that shout "interesting guy" or "not a tool or f***wit" cause there are some things. I know "wargaming" is pretty geeky, frowned upon, kid like etc. But maybe with some wording i can make it say patient or talented. I've other interests so i'm listing them, like a series of short but sharp statements to "how" i am, not "who" i am.


Too Lazy : Didn't Read
So my question how can i word, playing and painting 40k on a CV?


Feel free to go OT with C&C

Well it'll only be mentioned in your hobbies/interests section which is only filler anyway, it has minimal interest but is a chance to show some individuality. Your skills experience sound just like a lad we took on as a technician at school last year. Enthusiasm and looking like a normal human being count for quite a bit. He had war gaming mentioned on his CV, I didn't look unfavourably on it that's for certain but that's just me. That said, the other staff thought nothing of it. I can give specific advice on writing a CV later if you wish, the structure/layout is important.

I'd phrase it along the lines of you're a creative, artistic person, and you like to find interesting and varied methods of persuing these interests, such as...

Good luck.

Don't go into game specifics and arguably the war part of wargaming might put some off. That being the case I would include it as "strategy games" or some such and also avoid any connotations of gaming as gambling.

So yeah if you want to discuss it and highlight stills/attributes that wargaming shows then talk it up, nit to the level of bollox but definitely accentuate the positive sides - planning, organisation, attention to detail, community.

As an aside you seem quite down on your previous experience, don't be - talk it up, again accentuate the positive side of things. A prospective employer isn't so much interested in what you did as the route you took from A to B and then on to here. Working for the PO or a warehouse isn't work to be dismissed negatively - if you were a posty talk up the social aspects and the hard work/long hours you can do.

I worked in warehouses and as a Doorman when I started out in work (15 old years ago) and to this day as a reasonably well paid professional those jobs are still on my CV, as are the D-C grade GCSEs I got.

Most employers want people eager to learn and develop and are generally not looking for the finished article (outside of specialist trades and ) so you need to be likeable and keen.

Bullgakkers are easy to spot but most employers look for someone they would like to be around for 8-12 hours a day so try to sound like a positive chap on your CV and you will be half way there.

A single sick day in four years means you:

a. Are resilient
b. Possess a solid work ethic
c. Don't dive for the bed covers just because you have a sniffle
d. Possess a mutant healing factor

All of the above are positives.

As for wargaming. You are involved in utilising your spare time for something that requires creativity and dedication rather than being purely plonked in front of the idiot box.

I haven't had to do a CV for 19 years but in this day and age I'm sure photos of your work (fences, cycle wheels and modelling/ painting) might be suitable for inclusion dependant on the job you are going for. More so if that job requires an eye for detail and/ or patience.

You also used the phrase "I'm a bum". Thats only really the case if you have had long periods when you have actively avoided being in employment for no other reason than "couldn't be bothered".

Apologies if that last para sounded preachy.

To get hired you have to get noticed by an employer. It has been my experience that sending in job applications is not the way to do this. When an employer posts a job opening, they receive thousands of applications. It is all too easy to get lost in the stack. It is also worth noting that many employers avoid job postings and find new employees through referrals. The reasons for this are that it is costly to have an employee sift through the stacks of applications.

I would advise you to ask everyone you know if they know of any job openings where they work, or openings with people they know well.

In terms of the CV, I would not include wargaming unless it relates in some way to the job. Thus, if I were applying for a job at GW I would mention wargaming.

You may be surprised that your CV is stronger than you think. Having a single sick day in four years is very admirable.

It is important to stay positive, in life, on your CV, and in an interview.

I have it under my personality bit at the end of my cv, something like "My hobbies include painting and building tabletop wargaming models (warhammer 40,000)" that should do it.

What I put in my interests section of my last CV:-

• Strategy wargamer, enjoying the elements of history, modelling/ painting as well as the social side of organised tournament play

I am now working in a company that supplies the MoD, so being able to talk to some extent about an interest in Military History on the back of this didn't count against me although a pretty minor thing in the grand scheme.

I'd be reluctant to actually put "tabletop wargamer" on my CV, as, for good or ill, it has a certain reputation as a pastime that might work against you (which speaks as much to the personal prejudices of the recruiter, but nobody said the job market was fair or unbiased!)

Instead, reverse engineer what you do and look for the qualities that you employ when doing them.

For instance, painting a model requires focus, discipline, concentration and precision. It also can require forward planning, working to specific instructions and (when converting) being able to work outside a set of instructions.

Playing a game requires being able to grasp the workings of a complex system, employ anticipation, forward planning (again.) Plus others I haven't thought of I'm sure.

Then, you can take some of the broader aspects, as richred mentioned, you can emphasise the social side, the fact that you are able to work together with people in a group etc, etc.

By doing it that way, not only should you be able to get a lot more on the page, but it will hopefully sidestep being labelled with any negatives the HR bod associates with the hobby before you get chance to prove yourself in interview.

To echo what others have said, I would be wary about going into too much personal detail on a CV - it's not really what a prospective employer wants to read other than to give the barest amount of colour to the person in question. Remember, the CV is purely to get your foot in the door - the interview is your chance to shine and sell yourself so you need to make your CV as punchy, to-the-point and as relevant as possible. Most employers will glance at a CV and skim read so you must stand out from the crowd and be as memorable as possible.

Don't just list hobbies, make them a selling point. 'My hobbies include model making and painting, though which I express my creative side as well as a keen attention for detail'

To be honest, like others have picked up on, you have a decent backing for a CV already. A single sick day in four years is pretty good going indeed.

Even if you just put wargaming (or modelling, or however you think it's best to word it) down as one of your hobbies, that shows you are a proactive person who spends his spare time doing something productive and not getting drunk or whatever.

If you want to a put more emphasis on it, try and big up the fact that this hobby requires you to work on something through various stages until completion - which takes time, effort and dedication. A lot of things you'll do in the working world will be similar. You'll have a task and you'll have to be focused enough to see in through to completion. Employers are looking for that kind of skill. Granted, they're probably not looking for wargaming as a potential source, but it's something.

Last bit of advice: sound positive!

From my experience, employers don't look at the "hobbies" part. It doesn't relate to the job and it doesn't make you more or less qualified, so why put it? You're lucky if an employer looks at a CV for a full minute, so writing non-essentials that doesn't really relate to what you're applying to hurts you more than it helps.

Put yourself in their shoes. Would you care if your employee is into underwater basket-weaving? No. You hire them based on if they're qualified or not. Unless you're applying for a company related to miniature wargaming, I advise you not to put any sort of hobby or personal interest if it doesn't help you sell yourself for that job. What if your employer has a bad experience with a wargamer before, or he/she has a negative stereotype in mind when "wargamer" is mentioned? Then you just ruined your chances and it would've been better if you didn't put anything.

And personalize your CVs for the job you're applying for. If you're applying for GW or Mantic, it would be stupid not to mention your wargaming background. If you're applying for anything else, don't put it. Instead, what you can do is put the things that you got from this hobby (but only if it helps you sell yourself as an employee to the job you're applying for). You can say that you're artistically inclined, meticulous to detail, patient, has a mind for strategy, resourceful (if you do conversions and scratchbuilds), but only mention them if it relates to the job you're applying to.

Building bicycle wheels in intriguing. Have you thought about building a velomobile? If you have the skills, and it sounds like you may, then you could potentially turn that into some income. Velomobiles cost upwards of 5000 gbp.

Contrary to what some folks are saying here, hobbies are one of the most important things I look at on a CV, its what can set you apart from the crowd.

 Bangbangboom wrote:
Contrary to what some folks are saying here, hobbies are one of the most important things I look at on a CV, its what can set you apart from the crowd.

The exception that proves the rule.

Hobbies are filler of minimal worth, but for what very little weight filler has, you still want to try and make it look relevant.

My CV lists my interests as: Rowing, wargames and photography.

I don't elaborate at all, but if it comes up in interview it can be a talking point. There is always a chance the person who decides to hire you is a wargamer.

I wouldn't even mention the war gaming/strategy/tactics side of it.

First, the Royal Mail time should be presented as an example of reliability. If you're over 20, the GCSEs are irrelevant - experience, friendly manner and a willingness to work count for more.

If you're someone who can use tools and fix bikes to a good level (and building wheels is a good level) then I'd augment this by including the craftier aspects oif the hobby. Your skills include (delete as appropriate but include anything you've even the slightest knowledge about), model making, detail construction, sculpting, prop making, airbrush work, moulding & casting with resin/metal, painting, toy making, etc.

These don't go in the 'hobbies and interests' section.

All that stuff, listed under your education in a section called 'Skills and Abilities', along with the bike/tool stuffs, should give the impression of someone who is wiling to learn esoteric skills to get the job done and stand you in good stead for any craft or handiwork-based job. In addition, your Hobbies/Interests section should include a passing interest in history, art history and crafts - anyone who has this hobby probably knows a lot more than they think about those sorts of things.

So all that looks good in CV for office work, and might round you out. But I work in theatre, and I've always thought that the skills of any half decent hobbyist would be perfect for prop-making, scenic painting and a billion other handicraft-based jobs. Craft shops, museums, arts/art school technicians, furniture restoration, etc etc

This hobby is a crash course in everything from lead-casting to ancient history. It gives you tons of skills you don't realise you have. You just need to go for the jobs that care about them.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
My CV lists my interests as: Rowing, wargames and photography.

I don't elaborate at all, but if it comes up in interview it can be a talking point. There is always a chance the person who decides to hire you is a wargamer.

On the other end of the spectrum, you have a much higher chance of an HR agent looking at this and saying "Wtf is wargaming", google imaging it, seeing a picture of Matthew Broderick in his early twenties, and being confused as all get out.

Hyperbole yes, but encouraging someone to put wargaming on a CV cuz, hey, the HR agent might be a wargamer too is questionable professional advice.

I have a hobbies and interest section on my Resume. It's very few lines long, one relates to the several years of martial arts instruction i did teaching kids (shows dedication, leadership, ability to herd cats), and some community service leadership stuff i was involved in related to my industry. I also list painting.

I leave it at that. If asked what I paint, I respond with "Military models of various scales - I'm a bit of a military history enthusiast (which fair being fair should be evident from my minor in Military History)" - which is true, i do like WWII kits along with wargames models. I have never been asked a question on this further than that. Ever.

In total there was one interview where it even came up, and i'd pretty much already been offered the job, it was more some friendly banter post "We want to offer you the job, HR is coming in to present the offer." situation.

If you do put interests and hobbies, spin them in a non-long winded way so they at least pertain to marketable skills.

I put that I did commission painting for a few years on my resume, emphasizing that I worked with individual clients on their needs, and had to be self-motivated to make it work. I'm also an artist so I put some painted models in my portfolio. If you organized a game group from the ground up that could sort of count for leadership experience.

Maybe it's different in the UK, but I'm not accustomed to seeing a hobbies section on a resume. It's usually something that is added if you are a highschool student with zero work experience.

I work in the HR field and just don't encounter it.

It's fairly common in the UK, though you are advised to make it brief and put it near the bottom of your CV.

Most companies are looking for people who have the necessary skills and experience for the position, and who will fit into teams and get on with co-workers. Hobbies and interests are part of that.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's fairly common in the UK, though you are advised to make it brief and put it near the bottom of your CV.

Most companies are looking for people who have the necessary skills and experience for the position, and who will fit into teams and get on with co-workers. Hobbies and interests are part of that.

Same here in Australia. I have it on the bottom of my own CV as "Model Making & Painting" - as a point of interest that an employer can ask about and allows me to elaborate on as needed for the specific audience. It also leaves it vague enough that they can wonder what it is so they're more likely to ask, since your performance in an interview (if you got that far) becomes more about the person who can talk and be personable than the CV.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
My CV lists my interests as: Rowing, wargames and photography.

I don't elaborate at all, but if it comes up in interview it can be a talking point. There is always a chance the person who decides to hire you is a wargamer.

Or they may ask you if you're into candid photography!

Edit: Also it appears to be a cultural difference as I was told in college to not mention any sort of personal stuff on my resume.

Same here. We're taught that it's a big no-no to put personal stuff in your CV, unless mentioning it makes it more likely for you to get a job. The reasoning is in a professional setting ideally you pick people for their skills, not because you guys share the same hobbies (or the opposite of that is not hiring someone because you think negatively of their hobby).

Yeah I agree with pretty much everyone. If you're going for an art type job though, mentioning some creative hobbies would be a plus.

In the past I've been told it looks good to have a fleshed out 'hobbies and interests' section on my CV. It shows you have some passions, things that you are genuinely interested in. If you make it to an interview, half of it is impressing the interviewer by being personable and communicative.
And now that I'm in a position to hire new people, it really does help. I can ask interviewees about their hobbies as an ice-breaker. I can talk to them about their hobby to see what it looks like when they are interested by something, and then compare that to what they act like when talking about work.

Most of all it's about setting your CV apart from others. Most employers will spend about 15 seconds glancing at your carefully worded resume - you want something that stands out that isn't bad spelling.

I honestly think it would be more socially acceptable for you to write 'pornography' under your list of interests.

 Pacific wrote:
I honestly think it would be more socially acceptable for you to write 'pornography' under your list of interests.

Isn't that like saying "I like to breath oxygen" though?

We all do it, we just don't talk about it!









Actually except at work - so got right ahead and include that I say.

Although mentioning hobbies is important to attempt to set yourself apart, it only works if the interviewer both knows of and respects the activity. I cant help but feel that it is going to be very rare to find someone in a hiring position that feels that way about wargaming. Just the word sounds too 'trekkie' to me, as if it says "i am obsessive about this ONE thing." There is nothing wrong with that as a personality trait, but its not really a reason to hire someone either.

I would lean towards the qualities that are desired by the hirer, perhaps saying "In my personal time I enjoy learning games of strategy, particularly ones that simulate resource allocation and social economics."

For centuries only royalty had the luxury of playing chess, which was basically the wargame patriarch...and it wasnt seen as childish. Games give you the opportunity to practice different approaches to the same problem, keeping your mind limber and sharp. In that regard "brand loyalty" isnt as impressive as keeping an open mind to new systems and opportunities to practice your craft.

The same with the "artistic" aspect, if you are applying to a detail shop or a car painter...then yeah, small brushwork and airbrushing could be a useful trait. Otherwise it is fairly irrelevant to most jobs.