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Reading the space marine FAQ, it seems that you can make space marine bikers can take chainswords instead of bolt pistols. Does anyone know why you would take a weapon that gives basically no benifets, instead of pistol that adds another attack at? Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems counter-intuitive.

i think so you can trade them for special weapons.

I assumed they did it for WYSIWYG because so many biker models have a chainsword. I don't know, that's really all I could come up with.

Bikers can't take special weapons, only attack bikes can. What I was asking is that Bikers can now take chainswords instead of bolt pistols. Why would you wan't that. However, there's basically no bonus to taking that as far I can see. Why wouldn't you take a bolt pistol, which gives you an extra melee attack, over a chainsword, that does nothing?

I am to believe it's since both options are redundant so they just have the option if you like chainswords.

A bolt pistol does not give you an extra melee attack without a close combat weapon as well.

It's just for WYSIWYG. Also you'll be shooting bolters or special weapons anyway not your pistol so it doesn't matter.
And yes bikers can take special weapons - eg. flamer, meltagun, plasma gun, grav gun...

As Poly Ranger pointed out, the pistol only gives you an extra attack if you are also equipped with a CCW. It's purely a flavor thing and the fact they bothered to right it in the back of the book just goes to show how tyrannical a lot of RAW guys can be. There is no effective difference between the two.

If anything, swapping out the bolt pistol is a tactical disadvantage if you ever find yourself in a situation where you'd rather only shoot 3 shots instead of 6 Twin-Linked shots before a charge, or something.

Wait.... aint't it clear? <with the chainsword I get +1 A in CC, whereas the pistol might enable me to charge (and hide in CC)?

You only get +1 attack if you have 2 ccw or a ccw and a pistol. By swapping the pistol for a chainsword you only have 1 ccw so do not get +1a.

 Thairne wrote:
Wait.... aint't it clear? <with the chainsword I get +1 A in CC, whereas the pistol might enable me to charge (and hide in CC)?

What? This is so interestingly far from the rules that I'm intrigued about the thought behind it

I thought be default every SM carried a CCW his combat knife to that end he still has +1 attack if carrying a bolt pistol on a bike in the assault phase.

There is no "by default" wargear. Models either have something or they don't as mentioned in their unit entry. In prior editions they didn't spell it out so exactly so you might be remembering that.

 Baines4652 wrote:
I thought be default every SM carried a CCW his combat knife to that end he still has +1 attack if carrying a bolt pistol on a bike in the assault phase.

If it's not listed on their profile they don't have it. The reason for the FAQ was, as the first response pointed out, to give the option to swap for special weapons. Previously, when all they had was bolt pistols, the special weapon list stated that they may exchange their CCW or bolter for one of the weapons and therefore bikers could not take special weapons.

 megaL3 wrote:
Bikers can't take special weapons, only attack bikes can. What I was asking is that Bikers can now take chainswords instead of bolt pistols. Why would you wan't that. However, there's basically no bonus to taking that as far I can see. Why wouldn't you take a bolt pistol, which gives you an extra melee attack, over a chainsword, that does nothing?

Bikers can take Special Weapons....

Page 51 of the rules states.

"If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single CCW.

The profile is S=user and AP=nil

I take from that every model has this regardless unless it states in a models profile is dose not.

So I take from this if a biker has a bolt pistol he has 2 CCW weapons and gains the plus 1 attack.

Your not going to fire the bolt pistal anyway. The only time you would even consider it is if you have the guy equiped with a plasma gun and dont want to risk rolling a 1. any other time, you will be firing your special weapon or the twin linked bolters( and as your relentless, still be able to assault.
Purely cosmetic except in the case of a plsma gun and even then, silly to.
I suspect it was intended in some way to give an extra CCA but cant say for sure.

Again it depends if you are playing wysiwyg. If not and you are using profiles and war gear I believe most SM profiles will state that they have a bolt pistol. Taking this into account and my previous post you get the +1 even if you take the spec weapon.

But like I said it all depends on how you play.

 Baines4652 wrote:
Page 51 of the rules states.

"If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single CCW.

The profile is S=user and AP=nil

I take from that every model has this regardless unless it states in a models profile is dose not.

So I take from this if a biker has a bolt pistol he has 2 CCW weapons and gains the plus 1 attack.

No - the bolt pistol counts as his ccw. If your logic applied then tactical marines would get +1 attack for boltpistol and ccw. Then what advantage do assault and crusader squads have?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That is why people wished tactical squads came with a simple knife.

Poly Ranger wrote:

 Baines4652 wrote:
Page 51 of the rules states.

"If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single CCW.

The profile is S=user and AP=nil

I take from that every model has this regardless unless it states in a models profile is dose not.

So I take from this if a biker has a bolt pistol he has 2 CCW weapons and gains the plus 1 attack.

No - the bolt pistol counts as his ccw. If your logic applied then tactical marines would get +1 attack for boltpistol and ccw. Then what advantage do assault and crusader squads have?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That is why people wished tactical squads came with a simple knife.

So the bolt pistol can be used as a melee CCW? I'm not asking to argue with you, I'd just like clarification as a new player.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
i think so you can trade them for special weapons.

This is the reason. If you want to give a biker a special weapon (such as a plasma gun) you need to trade in a melee weapon or your bolter to do so. Your stock bike marine has neither, just his trusty bolt pistol. So while the bike entry gives you permission to equip two marines with gear from the list, RAW they cannot, as they lack the right things to turn in. With the FAQ letting them swap the pistol for the chainsword, they now have the option to get a melee weapon, which they can then swap for a spiffy gun.

I get it lol.

As it states a pistol can be used as a CCW, but using the profile as given not the pistols ranged profile.

Fluff wise it's like him using it as a club?

 Nevelon wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
i think so you can trade them for special weapons.

This is the reason. If you want to give a biker a special weapon (such as a plasma gun) you need to trade in a melee weapon or your bolter to do so. Your stock bike marine has neither, just his trusty bolt pistol. So while the bike entry gives you permission to equip two marines with gear from the list, RAW they cannot, as they lack the right things to turn in. With the FAQ letting them swap the pistol for the chainsword, they now have the option to get a melee weapon, which they can then swap for a spiffy gun.

It seems to me it would be 110% easier if they just let you swap your BP. I mean, I get the logic behind it. But adding an entire entry to allow you to take a chainsword to take a special weapon is involves three steps instead of two. If the entry says "may swap Chainsword for", then a better fix would be to change the word "chainsword" for "Bolt Pistol"

Also, does anyone actually notice this? I mean seriously. I wouldn't bat an eye if a guy took special weapons on his bikers. I wouldn't say something along the lines of...

DID YOU REMEMBER TO CHANGE THE BOLT PISTOLS FOR CHAINSWORDS SO YOU CAN DO THAT OMG YOU BROKE THE GAME I'M NOT PLAYING YOU YOU CHEATER.

just because the rule is sloppily written.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

It seems to me it would be 110% easier if they just let you swap your BP. I mean, I get the logic behind it. But adding an entire entry to allow you to take a chainsword to take a special weapon is involves three steps instead of two. If the entry says "may swap Chainsword for", then a better fix would be to change the word "chainsword" for "Bolt Pistol"

Also, does anyone actually notice this? I mean seriously. I wouldn't bat an eye if a guy took special weapons on his bikers. I wouldn't say something along the lines of...

DID YOU REMEMBER TO CHANGE THE BOLT PISTOLS FOR CHAINSWORDS SO YOU CAN DO THAT OMG YOU BROKE THE GAME I'M NOT PLAYING YOU YOU CHEATER.

just because the rule is sloppily written.

There are people who play strict RAW. Or so the YMDC section of the forums would have me believe. I suspect is was one of those things that got overlooked by the editors when they switched from a by-unit upgrade list to the armory system. Without the FAQ I suspect that most people wouldn't bat an eye if you kept on fielding your bikes the same way as the last codex. But it was a gap in the rules, and they used the FAQ to fix it. While you can argue about the rate of release and content of the GW's FAQs, they did the right thing here.

 Baines4652 wrote:
I get it lol.

As it states a pistol can be used as a CCW, but using the profile as given not the pistols ranged profile.

Fluff wise it's like him using it as a club?

Spot on. Yeh consider it a pistol whip, clint eastwood barrel of a magnum style.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

It seems to me it would be 110% easier if they just let you swap your BP. I mean, I get the logic behind it. But adding an entire entry to allow you to take a chainsword to take a special weapon is involves three steps instead of two. If the entry says "may swap Chainsword for", then a better fix would be to change the word "chainsword" for "Bolt Pistol"

Also, does anyone actually notice this? I mean seriously. I wouldn't bat an eye if a guy took special weapons on his bikers. I wouldn't say something along the lines of...

DID YOU REMEMBER TO CHANGE THE BOLT PISTOLS FOR CHAINSWORDS SO YOU CAN DO THAT OMG YOU BROKE THE GAME I'M NOT PLAYING YOU YOU CHEATER.

just because the rule is sloppily written.

There are people who play strict RAW. Or so the YMDC section of the forums would have me believe. I suspect is was one of those things that got overlooked by the editors when they switched from a by-unit upgrade list to the armory system. Without the FAQ I suspect that most people wouldn't bat an eye if you kept on fielding your bikes the same way as the last codex. But it was a gap in the rules, and they used the FAQ to fix it. While you can argue about the rate of release and content of the GW's FAQs, they did the right thing here.

ah, I get it now! The rules don't allow you to take a boltgun and a melta gun because the price of a melta gun is short range.

But why do bikers need bolt pistols at all? :p

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

But why do bikers need bolt pistols at all? :p

What if they fell off the bike? Wouldn't they want a sidearm?

 j31c3n wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

But why do bikers need bolt pistols at all? :p

What if they fell off the bike? Wouldn't they want a sidearm?

Sure, and we assume that the crews of tanks are adequately armed should their vehicle be destroyed, but we don't mention it in game terms.

It's simple the bp is a the marines CC weapon. You may swap for a chainsword if you prefer it aesthetically. the difference between the two for a biker marine is none. There is no reason to not fire the TL bolters on the bike since you are relentless on a bike a can charge regardless. The only reason for the swap to chainsword is to allow it to be further swapped for a special weapon as they forgot to allow bikes to properly take special weapons. as the wargear entry is written you may only swap a melee weapon or bolter for a special weapon.

They technically do not need a bolt pistol on the bikes to begin with but every marine has a bolt pistol and GW likes to keep up basic themes throughout their armies.

 Illumini wrote:

 Thairne wrote:
Wait.... aint't it clear? <with the chainsword I get +1 A in CC, whereas the pistol might enable me to charge (and hide in CC)?

What? This is so interestingly far from the rules that I'm intrigued about the thought behind it

Well my lack of experience struck. I always wondered why I would ever want to give a Chainsword to ANYONE instead of a BP. Read the rules wrong, as I figured giving someone a freaking SWORD would increase their melee capability. Part of the problem is the armybuilder I use, which gives you the option to use a bolter and a CS.