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There is a distinct difference between a crying infant and a temper-tantruming toddler. Crying infants for the most part can't help themselves are are in legitimate pain or discomfort.

If you don't like kids, There are restaurants which don't allow them or are basically 'unfriendly' because they have dress codes or are too expensive for a family with kids. Many movie theaters have no-baby policies and have specific showings for babies. If you don't want to be near them while traveling, fly first class.

But especially travel, people who think babies need to be walled up in a tomb for the first 2 years of their lives to keep them from inconveniencing you, that is the wrong attitude. It is your job to keep yourself walled up from society if that is really important to you. I think there are some places and times where it is perfectly ok for people to be expected to tolerate a minor inconvenience like a crying infant. Flights being one of them.

I agree with the 'tantrum for attention' being removed, but infants are not doing it for attention the same way a toddler is. That is simply how I handle kids when they are in my charge... if they can't behave, we can't have nice things like pizza at a restaurant. TO THE CAR!

 notprop wrote:


Sounds like you call out adults all the time then? Most people do not and sit there meekly grumbling but seem to get quite veracious about babies crying. And lets face it babies do cry, mostly because they are hungry - so would you object to a quiet baby being breast fed at the next table?

I am well known in my social group for telling people to keep it the feth down, especially in movie theaters. And no, if someone wants to breastfeed, go right ahead. Noise pollution is special because it is omnidirectional and next to impossible to ignore.

and really, its NOT that simple to make the little ones shut up...

Hold a hand over their mouth for a little bit. That'll quieten them.

 Mr Hyena wrote:

and really, its NOT that simple to make the little ones shut up...

Hold a hand over their mouth for a little bit. That'll quieten them.

Use pillows for ultimate comfort!

This guy looks and sounds and acts like every person who gave me hell at any of my food service jobs.

You haven't lived until an entitled, middle aged man hurls 5 pounds of sliced ham at you because the advertised price was a nickel off.

 reiner wrote:
You haven't lived until an entitled, middle aged man hurls 5 pounds of sliced ham at you because the advertised price was a nickel off.

Well, He had to throw it at you because he knows damn well you raised the price and are some how pocketing that 5 cents.

I don't see why people 'take it out' on service workers :(

Because the service workers are the easily-abusable 'face' of whatever is making someone irrationally angry.

curran12 has the gist of it.

Taking out your frustrations on strangers, because you don't believe there are any repercussions or just don't care about other people, just like the guy in the article. He seemed so wrapped up in his world and his wants and needs that physically assaulting a stranger (baby or not) seemed like a reasonable response. I just can't understand the thought process here. What was he expecting to happen?

I don't buy into any cosmic karma or natural order of good and evil, but this kind of disregard for other beings just begets more anger, hate and violence. He just had to sit there for a few minutes and deal with a distressed child. Especially after experiencing a traumatic event as he had with the death of his own, I would think he would have had some empathy. I honestly feel bad for him. He strikes me as a broken human being.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
After you become a parent, you realize how young people without kids need to get over themselves and their apparent need for silence and quiet reflection every place they go. There are places where young children shouldn't be. Otherwise, deal with it like the adult you claim to be.

For one thing, you were likely a miserable, awful, screaming brat yourself at times as a young child, and other people were tolerant with you. It's payback time now.

For another thing, who's to say that some of you aren't more annoying than the young children?

Im pretty sure me trying to sleep or read on a train isnt annoying, nor is watching TV on the plane. PArents need to be mindful that no everyone wants to listen to their kid scream and cry. I do not want to go to a theater and deal with a kid screaming through Thor.

Your right lets just leave our two year old for the week while we go to Florida.Oops kid died.

Da krimson barun wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
After you become a parent, you realize how young people without kids need to get over themselves and their apparent need for silence and quiet reflection every place they go. There are places where young children shouldn't be. Otherwise, deal with it like the adult you claim to be.

For one thing, you were likely a miserable, awful, screaming brat yourself at times as a young child, and other people were tolerant with you. It's payback time now.

For another thing, who's to say that some of you aren't more annoying than the young children?

Im pretty sure me trying to sleep or read on a train isnt annoying, nor is watching TV on the plane. PArents need to be mindful that no everyone wants to listen to their kid scream and cry. I do not want to go to a theater and deal with a kid screaming through Thor.

Your right lets just leave our two year old for the week while we go to Florida.Oops kid died.

Win win ... You do not have to pay for College, and other people do not have to hear them cry in public. Before you leave for Florida I would recommend putting some air fresheners up for your return.

 curran12 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
It does kind count as mitigating circumstances given his actions. He should probably have a lighter sentence given that...

Bull.

Sorry, but losing a family member is tragic, but how in the name of all that is holy does that mitigate slapping an infant?

Because anyone who has experienced the loss of a family member will know that grief is a weird thing that can take time both to pass and to have an effect on your life. I greatly pity anyone who has to give the order/allow their child to be taken off of life support. A parent should not have to do that however, that is somewhat of a mitigating circumstance. The man essentially gave the order for his child to die. How heartless are you?

Da krimson barun wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
After you become a parent, you realize how young people without kids need to get over themselves and their apparent need for silence and quiet reflection every place they go. There are places where young children shouldn't be. Otherwise, deal with it like the adult you claim to be.

For one thing, you were likely a miserable, awful, screaming brat yourself at times as a young child, and other people were tolerant with you. It's payback time now.

For another thing, who's to say that some of you aren't more annoying than the young children?

Im pretty sure me trying to sleep or read on a train isnt annoying, nor is watching TV on the plane. PArents need to be mindful that no everyone wants to listen to their kid scream and cry. I do not want to go to a theater and deal with a kid screaming through Thor.

Your right lets just leave our two year old for the week while we go to Florida.Oops kid died.

That is a strawman argument if I ever saw one. Im saying take care of your kid in public places, dont just leave them in a place, crying, running, causing a ruckus and disturbing others. I dont have kids because i dont want to have kids screaming at me.

Kids scream.
That's just what they do. Regardless. Without drugs it's impossible to stop forever unless the kid is good or dead. Economy on an airline will forever be uncomfortable but that's life. Get some headphones listen to some music and deal with it.

But why should everyone have to deal with one person(Or maybe 2-3).
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Because life is gak and you always have to deal with 1 person.
It's not a need. You are complaining about being uncomfortable as you are transported hundreds if not thousands of miles at high speed. If it was about being uncomfortable we'd be having this argument midway through a 3 moth voyage across the Atlantic while we both have the gaks...
Life's a bitch. Sometimes there are screaming babies. Sometimes there are naked ladies.

Dakka seems to have a rather large number of people declaring that they've decided to never have kids.

I have ran into more screaming babies in the middle of my dinner then I have naked ladies.
Kids are the devil I tell you, Seen, but not heard.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
But why should everyone have to deal with one person(Or maybe 2-3).
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

You're not going to get an answer because you already got at least 2 pages of answers, and only an idiot is going to play Charlie Brown to your Lucy at this point.

It's a lot easier to hear kids than it is to see them.
Makes them a damn to hunt i tell you.
Regardless, my point is people should stop whining. Economy is always going to suck, just listen to some music, go to sleep or do some equally time consuming activity. If you were planning on writing a freaking opera during a plane flight you deserve everything that comes to you unless it's good.

 sebster wrote:
Dakka seems to have a rather large number of people declaring that they've decided to never have kids.

I love kids that are related to me. I plan on having them someday. I just dont like screaming kids in resturants.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I love kids that are related to me. I plan on having them someday. I just dont like screaming kids in resturants.

?

"Because I am the one who decided to not have kids so I dont have to deal with screaming kids."

Yet, I dont want kids YET

 sebster wrote:
Dakka seems to have a rather large number of people declaring that they've decided to never have kids.

In my case it's a genetic impossibility. I am incapable of fathering them - and even if I could, my wife is also incapable. Adoption is not an option. Selfish? Perhaps, but as we are not practising ANY form of religion, we are not deemed to be "good" candidates for adoptive parents anyway.

As for my previous comment being in jest? Maybe.

It's pretty hard to carry a woodchipper onboard an aircraft, let alone operate one. I doubt the TSA would allow you to do it (but since they seem incapable of stopping loonies IN THE OUTER terminal from going postal anyway, it's all a bit iffy.)

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yet, I dont want kids YET

And when you do have them, will you stop going to restaurants? Will you no longer fly in planes? And when making a cross country trip because you won't fly in planes and you stop for lunch, will you insist your family all eat in the car because your child might cry and inconvenience the other patrons of the truckstop?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chromedog wrote:
In my case it's a genetic impossibility. I am incapable of fathering them - and even if I could, my wife is also incapable. Adoption is not an option. Selfish?

How is that selfish? No-one should ever feel obligated to raise children.

And in Australia, the problem with adoption is less one's faith, and more the incredibly stringent restrictions on anyone adopting, especially from overseas.

I never understood such stringent and sometimes arbitrary rules they put on adoptions. Surely it is great if someone wants to adopt a child and much less of a burden on the orphanage/whatever takes care of them, why place so many hurdles?
And no, I will not stop going to restaurants, I will just have to be mindful of the restaurants I go to. More child friendly places will have to be it. When Im talking not wanting kids screaming in restaurants Im talking nice ones, with bars, giant aquariams and other such, not dennys, nor Ihop or fast food And you are damn right I will drive, few things are better then driving cross country with your family

 d-usa wrote:
When I flew to Europe a few years ago we had a crying baby on our plane. The parents were walking up and down the aisle with it and clearly trying to make it more comfortable and help it go to sleep. You could see by their faces that they felt very bad about the amount the baby crying.

Some guy a couple rows behind me kept on calling the flight attendant asking her angrily "Isn't there anything you guys can do about that!" I'm sure the pilot will just pull this plane over in the middle of the air to give that baby a talking to sir .

Of course this is me when I listen to people that children should not be able to see their extended families because the fact that they are children might make it hard for you to read a book:

This.
You can't read your book, I'm sorry, I'm trying to raise a Child that will one day contribute to society just as much as you do.
Note: the guy could have pleaded depression.
Also, Jonah...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
It does kind count as mitigating circumstances given his actions. He should probably have a lighter sentence given that...

Bull.

Sorry, but losing a family member is tragic, but how in the name of all that is holy does that mitigate slapping an infant?

Agreed.

 purplefood wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
It does kind count as mitigating circumstances given his actions. He should probably have a lighter sentence given that...

Bull.

Sorry, but losing a family member is tragic, but how in the name of all that is holy does that mitigate slapping an infant?

Because anyone who has experienced the loss of a family member will know that grief is a weird thing that can take time both to pass and to have an effect on your life. I greatly pity anyone who has to give the order/allow their child to be taken off of life support. A parent should not have to do that however, that is somewhat of a mitigating circumstance. The man essentially gave the order for his child to die. How heartless are you?

I like the personal attacks on my 'heartlessness' because I am not pardoning a man who slapped an infant. Who also has a record of assaulting his girlfriend.

I am a real heartless guy, I am.

And here's the thing. Everyone loses a family member. I lost three of them this year including one we had to take off a respirator (but hey, nice making assumptions about me, how's your moral crusade going?). Know what I didn't do? Slap a child and shout racial slurs because of it. Know what most people don't do? Slap a child.

 curran12 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
It does kind count as mitigating circumstances given his actions. He should probably have a lighter sentence given that...

Bull.

Sorry, but losing a family member is tragic, but how in the name of all that is holy does that mitigate slapping an infant?

Because anyone who has experienced the loss of a family member will know that grief is a weird thing that can take time both to pass and to have an effect on your life. I greatly pity anyone who has to give the order/allow their child to be taken off of life support. A parent should not have to do that however, that is somewhat of a mitigating circumstance. The man essentially gave the order for his child to die. How heartless are you?

I like the personal attacks on my 'heartlessness' because I am not pardoning a man who slapped an infant. Who also has a record of assaulting his girlfriend.

I am a real heartless guy, I am.

And here's the thing. Everyone loses a family member. I lost three of them this year including one we had to take off a respirator (but hey, nice making assumptions about me, how's your moral crusade going?). Know what I didn't do? Slap a child because of it. Know what most people don't do? Slap a child.

You soul less bastard! How dare you not slap the children!

I guess I just don't get the viewpoint that society owes you something other than the fairly large tax breaks granted to you when you spit out a child.

Once again, I am okay with the whole crying baby on a plane/train/bus thing. That happens, theoretically you are on your way to handle some business and I am okay with that.

Your child shrieking at some sort of social event - no. We don't owe that to you. There is a moderate level of decency that you need to adhere to in public places into which you choose to go for enjoyment. I will tolerate your child to the degree that I would an overly loud ringtone - ie very little.

Just because you have limited free time because you chose to have children does not give you some moral superiority. What if I have limited free time because I work odd or long hours? If my girlfriend and I are only able to sync our schedules once a month to go out and enjoy a dinner out I should just toughen up and learn to enjoy crying because it is too much to ask for you to remove yourself?

And this

 the shrouded lord wrote:


You can't read your book, I'm sorry, I'm trying to raise a Child that will one day contribute to society just as much as you do.

Who the F appointed you arbiter of all social interactions and judge of the future? Your child could easily turn out to be a drain on society. You don't know how things will turn out. I'm going all hyperbolic here but....
Your child could literally be the next Hitler. I have proven that I am not. I want to enjoy my book. I've earned that. Your child is the unknown quantity so stop estimating it at it's highest value instead of it's average.

 Bromsy wrote:
I guess I just don't get the viewpoint that society owes you something other than the fairly large tax breaks granted to you when you spit out a child.

Once again, I am okay with the whole crying baby on a plane/train/bus thing. That happens, theoretically you are on your way to handle some business and I am okay with that.

Your child shrieking at some sort of social event - no. We don't owe that to you. There is a moderate level of decency that you need to adhere to in public places into which you choose to go for enjoyment. I will tolerate your child to the degree that I would an overly loud ringtone - ie very little.

Just because you have limited free time because you chose to have children does not give you some moral superiority. What if I have limited free time because I work odd or long hours? If my girlfriend and I are only able to sync our schedules once a month to go out and enjoy a dinner out I should just toughen up and learn to enjoy crying because it is too much to ask for you to remove yourself?

And this

 the shrouded lord wrote:


You can't read your book, I'm sorry, I'm trying to raise a Child that will one day contribute to society just as much as you do.

Who the F appointed you arbiter of all social interactions and judge of the future? Your child could easily turn out to be a drain on society. You don't know how things will turn out. I'm going all hyperbolic here but....
Your child could literally be the next Hitler. I have proven that I am not. I want to enjoy my book. I've earned that. Your child is the unknown quantity so stop estimating it at it's highest value instead of it's average.

oh, social events no way. sorry. I misread . also, I don't have a child, was talking rhetorically. BTW: if I got appointed arbiter of all social interactions and judge of the future, wed all be fethed. I couldn't even tell who was going to win total drama island not to mention being a "doctor-announced-sociopath .
also, I liken having children to owning an extremely demanding puppy.
does this make me a bad person?