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Fragile wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQQGcgJ5PZ0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I think this about sums up how garbage nids are now with synapse being a huge killer for them

@steamdragon

The crone is decent against flyers, it can resonably kill one per turn but that is if the enemy doesnt throw a rock at it or a stiff breeze doesnt come by when its on the board.

How does the crone reasonably kill 1 flyer per turn ?

Well if a stuff breeze doesnt kill it first it can vector strike for a few HPs and can haywire twice for a few more

 A GumyBear wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQQGcgJ5PZ0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I think this about sums up how garbage nids are now with synapse being a huge killer for them

@steamdragon

The crone is decent against flyers, it can resonably kill one per turn but that is if the enemy doesnt throw a rock at it or a stiff breeze doesnt come by when its on the board.

How does the crone reasonably kill 1 flyer per turn ?

Well if a stuff breeze doesnt kill it first it can vector strike for a few HPs and can haywire twice for a few more

It can only fire one haywire if it vector strikes.

 Eldarain wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQQGcgJ5PZ0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I think this about sums up how garbage nids are now with synapse being a huge killer for them

@steamdragon

The crone is decent against flyers, it can resonably kill one per turn but that is if the enemy doesnt throw a rock at it or a stiff breeze doesnt come by when its on the board.

How does the crone reasonably kill 1 flyer per turn ?

Well if a stuff breeze doesnt kill it first it can vector strike for a few HPs and can haywire twice for a few more

It can only fire one haywire if it vector strikes.

if you dont mind me asking could you tell me why? Im not too knowledgeable about FMCs since im a cron player so any rules I can learn about them is always a plus

No problem
FMC can fire 2 weapons per turn. If you vector strike you count as already having fired one in the next shooting phase.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I posted this in another Tyranid whine thread, but it should be repeated:

The book is great! Tyranids got a bunch of deep-dish points reductions on heaps of units. What more do 'Nid players really want? An auto-'I Win' Codex that all the WAAC players can high-five one another over.

I mean they've got the awesome long-ranged Exocrine that can just bombard units to pieces, the Harpy and Crone that really give the Hellturkey a run for its money (the Crone more than the Harpy, if I'm honest), a great set of really useful psychic powers (like Onslaught – what other army can do anything like Onslaught?), the Haruspex can just monster vehicles and infantry alike, the new bio-artefacts give players heaps of really cool options (like the amazingly versatile Ymgarl Factor), and the Venomthrope can shroud most of your army meaning that enemy shooting is toast, giving plenty of time for your Genestealers and Warriors to get into combat. Sure, some units did go up in price – Prime, Tervigons, Hive Guard – but those were crutch units that power-gamers relied on to win games, so now they’re just paying what they’re worth rather than getting ‘el cheapo super-creatures.

Tyranids are awesome now!




NB: Nothing I said above is true. Not a word of it.

Great. Now my sarcasm-detector overheated and exploded. Thanks a lot!

Just remember, people thought the new Necron codex was bad. Folks on these very boards.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408770.page

Necrons were also completely redesigned, and played differently to their previous incarnation. Tyranids play the same, just worse.

Besides, I doubt we need months of play testing to tell us that the price increase on Rippers - Rippers FFS! - wasn't necessary.

 Thokt wrote:
Just remember, people thought the new Necron codex was bad. Folks on these very boards.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408770.page

That´s a single person.

With 7 posts on Dakka. It was the first time he tried to share an analysis, and the last.

He was quickly answered back by people who read the Codex. Nobody agreed with him. At least on page 1. Sorry, I am not reading the rest.
--- Vaktathi was the first to give a thorough answer, going point by point using the Codex. Everything the OP claimed was wrong.
--- Theorius was the second, pointing more mistakes.
--- Arandmoor was the third.
The three of them started with something like "It's nice he explained everything. Not going to stop me from disagreeing with him on every point "

The rest of page 1 is people who answered with questions or not detailed answers. Most of them disagreed too.

This is something that some people are saying over and over as a mantra: "but when the Necron/Tau/Eldar Codex everyone said it was bad". No, it didn´t happen that way. At all. Most complaints about these Codices were that they were overpowered. Or fluff reasons (Necrons mostly). Of course, there is always someone who wants to whine a little. But it is, what, one out of a hundred? And these persons are usually received with "you got it wrong", "I disagree with you", "have you considered...?" and the like.

The Codices that get bad reviews from a majority of users reading them and playing the army are usually bad. At least from the point of view of the majority of the users that play the army.

If you want to prove your point, find a thread here on Dakka with a Necron player claiming how weak the Codex is and why, and other people saying that he is right.


By the way, the Necron codex got negative reviews almost everywhere. I know people who shred parts of it to pieces after buying it and people who abandoned the game after reading it. Massive nerd rage was unleashed to Mr Ward. But it had nothing to do with the rules. The rules were fine for most, overpowered for some. On the other side, Tau Codex got bad reviews from Tau players that claimed that they didn´t want to play Codex Markerlights.

 Thokt wrote:
Just remember, people thought the new Necron codex was bad. Folks on these very boards.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408770.page

He's like 90% right though. Look at every unit he complains about.

With the exception of the warrior (which are mandatory troops). Who uses:

-Ghost Arks
-Immortals
-Lych Guard
-Triarch Stalkers
-C'Tan Shards
-Flayed Ones
-Destroyers
-Doomsday Arks
-Monoliths
-Canoptek Spiders
-CC barges
-Royal Court

In competitive lists? The meta today is all about min Warrior squads with scythes, destroyer lords, wraiths and annihilation barges out the ass.

What are his favorite units of the Codex? Imhotek and... Scythes. Seems like the guy was right on the money to me.


Frankly, I'd say that thread hurts your argument more than helps it. The majority of the Necron codex was considered trash on day 1 and those predictions are true today.

If I was to switch armies, hoping for something that takes skill to play well and isn't overpowered at all like tyranids were, yet still not with a codex full of crap units like Tyranids ARE, what would you guys suggest?

 SHUPPET wrote:
If I was to switch armies, hoping for something that takes skill to play well and isn't overpowered at all like tyranids were, yet still not with a codex full of crap units like Tyranids ARE, what would you guys suggest?

Space Marines. Or if you want to go Nintendo Hard then Adepta Sororitas.

 SHUPPET wrote:
If I was to switch armies, hoping for something that takes skill to play well and isn't overpowered at all like tyranids were, yet still not with a codex full of crap units like Tyranids ARE, what would you guys suggest?

There's always Space Marines. They're near completely customizable now, have a very good codex and a great deal of customability and fluffy armies. Plus there's always some Chapter that will interest you. Or you can make your own.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Thokt wrote:
Just remember, people thought the new Necron codex was bad. Folks on these very boards.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408770.page

He's like 90% right though. Look at every unit he complains about.

With the exception of the warrior (which are mandatory troops). Who uses:

-Ghost Arks
-Immortals
-Lych Guard
-Triarch Stalkers
-C'Tan Shards
-Flayed Ones
-Destroyers
-Doomsday Arks
-Monoliths
-Canoptek Spiders
-CC barges
-Royal Court

In competitive lists? The meta today is all about min Warrior squads with scythes, destroyer lords, wraiths and annihilation barges out the ass.

What are his favorite units of the Codex? Imhotek and... Scythes. Seems like the guy was right on the money to me.


Frankly, I'd say that thread hurts your argument more than helps it. The majority of the Necron codex was considered trash on day 1 and those predictions are true today.

They may be true now. They were not true at the beginnig. Immortals were fine and widely used, and well received as a second troop option. Canoptek Spiders ruled the game with Scarab Farms (considered "completely broken"). Royal Court was everywhere (they still are?). Many of these units are "normal", not bad at all, unless you want to go full competitive and limit yourself to "optimal" units. Doomsday Arks, Ghost Arks, Stalkers, Destroyers, even Monoliths can be used. There was also a lot of talking and experimentation about some C´tan configurations.

Two exceptions: Lych Guard, who was meh or useless, depending who you asked, and Flayed Ones. I never played with or against Lych, so I don´t know.

The Flayed Ones are tyranid/chaos-level of uselessness. That´s true. And it was obvious from the beginning. One unit.

And I am not alone thinking this: that´s why I posted the rest of the answers. Most people believed Necrons had got a serious level up or at least were competitive.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
If I was to switch armies, hoping for something that takes skill to play well and isn't overpowered at all like tyranids were, yet still not with a codex full of crap units like Tyranids ARE, what would you guys suggest?

There's always Space Marines. They're near completely customizable now, have a very good codex and a great deal of customability and fluffy armies. Plus there's always some Chapter that will interest you. Or you can make your own.

I have a crapton of Space Marine models as well. Something like 3000 pts of Marines. Might be a good call, but aren't they fairly easy to play? Far less reliant on strategy? And one of the more powerful dex's, I know they aren't Eldar but still quite tough? I have like two power armor players in my meta and ones CSM ones Dark Angels so I have had very little experience with C:SM.

 da001 wrote:

 Thokt wrote:
Just remember, people thought the new Necron codex was bad. Folks on these very boards.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408770.page

That´s a single person.

With 7 posts on Dakka. It was the first time he tried to share an analysis, and the last.

He was quickly answered back by people who read the Codex. Nobody agreed with him. At least on page 1. Sorry, I am not reading the rest.
--- Vaktathi was the first to give a thorough answer, going point by point using the Codex. Everything the OP claimed was wrong.
--- Theorius was the second, pointing more mistakes.
--- Arandmoor was the third.
The three of them started with something like "It's nice he explained everything. Not going to stop me from disagreeing with him on every point "

The rest of page 1 is people who answered with questions or not detailed answers. Most of them disagreed too.

This is something that some people are saying over and over as a mantra: "but when the Necron/Tau/Eldar Codex everyone said it was bad". No, it didn´t happen that way. At all. Most complaints about these Codices were that they were overpowered. Or fluff reasons (Necrons mostly). Of course, there is always someone who wants to whine a little. But it is, what, one out of a hundred? And these persons are usually received with "you got it wrong", "I disagree with you", "have you considered...?" and the like.

The Codices that get bad reviews from a majority of users reading them and playing the army are usually bad. At least from the point of view of the majority of the users that play the army.

If you want to prove your point, find a thread here on Dakka with a Necron player claiming how weak the Codex is and why, and other people saying that he is right.


By the way, the Necron codex got negative reviews almost everywhere. I know people who shred parts of it to pieces after buying it and people who abandoned the game after reading it. Massive nerd rage was unleashed to Mr Ward. But it had nothing to do with the rules. The rules were fine for most, overpowered for some. On the other side, Tau Codex got bad reviews from Tau players that claimed that they didn´t want to play Codex Markerlights.

Nearly all the complaining about the Necron dex had to do with fluff whining. Also, since it was released in 5th ed, there was some hesitation about why it wasn't as OP as the GK codex which had just preceded it, so a lot of people thought the book was mediocre at the time. Of course, then 6th rolled around and we realized we'd be WAAAAAARD'ed again...

Bottom line: we're not whining unjustly. The new Nids Codex sucks, and is easily the worst Codex release in years (even worse than our last Codex was, which was notoriously bad as well).

Just posted on GW's Facebook -

Oh dear GW, what on earth did you do to Tyranids?
How can you possibly consider this a competitive codex.
People should be asking for their money back and returning these dex's. Is it really that hard to play test and ensure people can actually win the odd game that wasn't due to sheer fluke?

I for one will not be purchasing any Tyranid merchandise which is a real shame as I was looking forward to playing them.

I seriously suggest a review of the Tyranid Codex and introduction of an FAQ to fix some of the issues.
If you want a list of suggested changes I and the hobby community would be happy to help.

Ignoring this post would just suggest that know one actually cares and your customers should therefore be taking their money elsewhere.

Thanks, Not a happy customer.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/GamesWorkshop/300575293853

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Just posted on GW's Facebook -

Oh dear GW, what on earth did you do to Tyranids?
How can you possibly consider this a competitive codex.
People should be asking for their money back and returning these dex's. Is it really that hard to play test and ensure people can actually win the odd game that wasn't due to sheer fluke?

I for one will not be purchasing any Tyranid merchandise which is a real shame as I was looking forward to playing them.

I seriously suggest a review of the Tyranid Codex and introduction of an FAQ to fix some of the issues.
If you want a list of suggested changes I and the hobby community would be happy to help.

Ignoring this post would just suggest that know one actually cares and your customers should therefore be taking their money elsewhere.

Thanks, Not a happy customer.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/GamesWorkshop/300575293853

I doubt a comment like this would make any impact whatsoever, unless you can accompany it with some evidence.

Criticising illogical rules,, poor photoshop additions (on the Harpy illustration), typos and poor grammar is probably worth a go, but a general vague slag-off is unlikely to elicit a response. If you're slagging them off for not play-testing, include some meaningful play-testing results of your own. FInally, if you're complaining, you need to tell them that you bought the product,, along with the reasons for why it's unsatisfactory 

Hivefleet Oblivion, I'm not expecting anything meaningful but if you don't criticise a bad product and if you don't try then nothing will happen either.

I understand the need for evidence, at least I have hopefully created a starting point for other people to make their voices heard.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Just posted on GW's Facebook -

Oh dear GW, what on earth did you do to Tyranids?
How can you possibly consider this a competitive codex.
People should be asking for their money back and returning these dex's. Is it really that hard to play test and ensure people can actually win the odd game that wasn't due to sheer fluke?

I for one will not be purchasing any Tyranid merchandise which is a real shame as I was looking forward to playing them.

I seriously suggest a review of the Tyranid Codex and introduction of an FAQ to fix some of the issues.
If you want a list of suggested changes I and the hobby community would be happy to help.

Ignoring this post would just suggest that know one actually cares and your customers should therefore be taking their money elsewhere.

Thanks, Not a happy customer.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/GamesWorkshop/300575293853

I doubt a comment like this would make any impact whatsoever, unless you can accompany it with some evidence.

Criticising illogical rules,, poor photoshop additions (on the Harpy illustration), typos and poor grammar is probably worth a go, but a general vague slag-off is unlikely to elicit a response. If you're slagging them off for not play-testing, include some meaningful play-testing results of your own. FInally, if you're complaining, you need to tell them that you bought the product,, along with the reasons for why it's unsatisfactory 

They will just delete the post. There have been numerous complaint posts that are now gone.

I love the GW defenders that say oh it's not that bad you haven't even played a game with new book. So little has changed we don't have to I will give you an example.

Tervigon 5th ed upgraded was 195 that is with toxin sacs AD glands and 2 powers

6th ed base cost 190 one power no BRB powers and the range of py shock is doubled that mean guants within 12" taek s3 3d6 hits before it was 6

So nid players can pretty much figure that out.

 MDizzle wrote:
I love the GW defenders that say oh it's not that bad you haven't even played a game with new book. So little has changed we don't have to I will give you an example.

Tervigon 5th ed upgraded was 195 that is with toxin sacs AD glands and 2 powers

6th ed base cost 190 one power no BRB powers and the range of py shock is doubled that mean guants within 12" taek s3 3d6 hits before it was 6

So nid players can pretty much figure that out.

It's called Apologism. And this game in particular is rife with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Just posted on GW's Facebook -

Oh dear GW, what on earth did you do to Tyranids?
How can you possibly consider this a competitive codex.
People should be asking for their money back and returning these dex's. Is it really that hard to play test and ensure people can actually win the odd game that wasn't due to sheer fluke?

I for one will not be purchasing any Tyranid merchandise which is a real shame as I was looking forward to playing them.

I seriously suggest a review of the Tyranid Codex and introduction of an FAQ to fix some of the issues.
If you want a list of suggested changes I and the hobby community would be happy to help.

Ignoring this post would just suggest that know one actually cares and your customers should therefore be taking their money elsewhere.

Thanks, Not a happy customer.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/GamesWorkshop/300575293853

While I personally like your effort, I'm pretty sure that's not GW's page. GW doesn't have an official Facebook page. The closest you get is the Digital Editions page. The one you posted to is made by some random person, I believe.

Ah the endless flame war between the the Enlightened Few and their mortal enemies, the Blind Apologists.

Does it matter? This forum isn't going to create a significant "boycott" of the product. The 6th Edition Tyranid Codex is here to stay (for a while at least). Future Tyranid books won't be influenced (much) by internet backlash.

It's not the book I was hoping for, and I think it is full of missed opportunities and does seem like a rushed work with far too little Tyranid flavour (reminds me of CSM 4th Edition), I'm not going to give up my hobby or "bench my Tyranids" because of it..

Xyptc wrote:
Ah the endless flame war between the the Enlightened Few and their mortal enemies, the Blind Apologists.

Does it matter? This forum isn't going to create a significant "boycott" of the product. The 6th Edition Tyranid Codex is here to stay (for a while at least). Future Tyranid books won't be influenced (much) by internet backlash.

It's not the book I was hoping for, and I think it is full of missed opportunities and does seem like a rushed work with far too little Tyranid flavour (reminds me of CSM 4th Edition), I'm not going to give up my hobby or "bench my Tyranids" because of it..

Personally, I returned all the stuff I bought. Partly because of the way they handled the codex, and partly because there wasn't any point in owning them anyway, most of the new stuff isn't great. Do I think it will matter? That depends. Do I think it will magically change GW's attitude toward things, or somehow make them release a new Tyranid codex? Hahaha, no. Do I think I just saved myself $200+? Yes.

I'm certainly not going to be of the opinion "well shucks, I guess I'll just live with it". Hell no, I returned that gak.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
If I was to switch armies, hoping for something that takes skill to play well and isn't overpowered at all like tyranids were, yet still not with a codex full of crap units like Tyranids ARE, what would you guys suggest?

There's always Space Marines. They're near completely customizable now, have a very good codex and a great deal of customability and fluffy armies. Plus there's always some Chapter that will interest you. Or you can make your own.

I have a crapton of Space Marine models as well. Something like 3000 pts of Marines. Might be a good call, but aren't they fairly easy to play? Far less reliant on strategy? And one of the more powerful dex's, I know they aren't Eldar but still quite tough? I have like two power armor players in my meta and ones CSM ones Dark Angels so I have had very little experience with C:SM.

Depends on the Chapter Tactics you use and the forces you wield.You could always do something like the BT's, lots of assault troops to make victory harder.

Am I going crazy, or do we no longer have armoured shell for tyrants?

It was taken out, so that you no longer have to worry about deciding between walking or flying hive tyrant.

When I look at the horrid nature of these changes overall it just... hurts... The point decreases honestly just don't justify what was taken from Tyranids..

Close combat Biomorphs are no longer applied to all CC attacks, instead you choose which ONE weapon applies to any attack..
Losing Scything talons ability to reroll 1's forces you to run other biomorphs on units that only have scything talons to start
Losing access to ANY other psychic powers

These 3 changes alone are painful enough... but STREAMLINING the cost of biomorphs has destroyed some models more than anything. Those models that could get Regeneration for 20-25, or adrenal glands for 5-10 are now punished, and for the sake of not wanting to take extreme measures against my own custom Tyranid Prime I will ignore how this destroys him as a feasible model alone.

We lost not one, or two, or even three but FOUR units within the codex, with little to replace them. All FMC suffer from the same problem, everyone else has skyfire EXCEPT tyranids, and of WE get shot we have a chance to fall out of the sky. No durability added in, it becomes a game of "when does a stray bullet knock me out of the sky".

Tyrants were nerfed in the means of Old Adversary, no longer STARTING with bone sword and lash whip but now having to spend 20 POINTS to take them, no way of getting 2+ armor.. I mean yes making Tyrant guard autopass look out sir rolls is amazing, but again... game full of ID and ap 2-3.

I'll ignore the Tervigon's existance for the same reason as the Tyranid prime.

Old one eye and death leaper are intersting as HQ, except.... no synapse = not going to be used. Synapse is too mandatory now.

Troops are still as per standard.. everything's points have pretty much evened out to be the exact same, except for Rippers which they should white out of the codex if they're just going to insult us with them, and INCREASING the cost of a Broodlord, and scything talons while taking away their ability, and forcing the BL to take the same power every time...

Elites are again more of the same, Hive guard shouldn't have gone up in price, though getting adrenal glands IS nice. Lictors are a bit more viable now with infiltrade to not bring them in via DS but instead use them as a turn 1 locator beacon. Zoanthropes..... heh... I'm sure I'm not alone saying id rather roll 3 rolls and get 3 saves with 3 shots than 1 set of rolls with 3 shots. Venomthropes got better, point blank easy. Surprisingly so did Pyrovores, but their still useless. Haruspex.... will NEVER see use. it's a weaker old one eye that is more fragile than old one eye, has less attacks, and with an odd number of attacks, no extras, and WS 3, he might hit once a round and MIGHT get the second attack. mandatory adrenal glands to try and get most things across the field.

Fast, Shrikes went down in price with upgrades going up... enough said. Raveners are still the same, except terror is stupidly overpriced. Sky slashers... see ripper requirement for whiteout. Gargoyles... nerfed. up in points. annoying and needless. Harpy/crone... see flyrant issue with being FMC, only these guys have lower saves, and toughness, and worse overall stats. Only upside is MAYBE haywire missling 1 maybe 2 enemy fliers.

Heavy, Carnifex are usable again, very usable. Biovores... got nerfed HARD losing their 1/biovore in the unit, so unless you're eating up multiple heavy slots with 1 biovore at a time to try and cover the field with mines they are vastly under useful for body production. Trygon and prime lost rerolls AND an attack to go down 10 points and up the cost of regen and adrenal glands by 5 points... the ONLY plus here is if you want to dump a load of points, you can give the Prime a bio artifact to adapt its attacks but even that is just putting MORE cost to it... Mawlock got a buff and debuff in one, so dead even. Tyrannofex got the point drop it needed, but not the rupture cannon upgrade it needed, the gun should be at LEAST ap 3, not 4. Exocrine is by far the best of the new units, since if you platform it it goes to bs4, IF you platform it. Still not that good though.


Overall this codex is just... so... bad... those first 3 things I mentioned utterly crack the codex open. I very truthfully feel like I've wasted money on models and my codex to this point.

Overall this codex is just... so... bad... those first 3 things I mentioned utterly crack the codex open. I very truthfully feel like I've wasted money on models and my codex to this point.

return them, thats what a lot of people are doing to send a message, its the only language they understand

What are you talking about biovore nerf?? They are one of the best units.

Brood lord price is the same as it doesn't replace a genestealer.

Why would you put AG on hive guard?

Otherwise I agree with pretty much anything.

We dont have armoured shell...
...
*bangs head on desk*
*repeats*
*repeats*
*bangs head on wall*
*repeats*
*remeats*
This means we have no 2+ saves, urrrggggg!! Nbnnn!!